Counterfeit Chinese Cables
I thought that I would write this for those who are curious about one of the many counterfeit Chinese interconnect cables that are available these days. I know that there have been threads about the subject before, and I was always curious because they seem to be such a bargain. I don't really recall much about what any members actually said about the performance of these counterfeit cables, and I didn't look back and do any research, but a couple of months ago there was a thread that came around to discussing the quality of Chinese made components, and oldhvymec said something that made sense to me.
He said that people that say that what they are making is junk should consider that much of what is in our gear, and a lot of our American brands are actually manufactured there. I decided shortly after that that I would take the chance on a set of interconnects, because I suspected that the interconnects going from my pre to my amp were the weak link and needed upgrading. The interconnects going from my DAC to my pre were Kimber Select which are very good, but the other set were LAT International (now defunct) which had cost $500.00 when new, but I had reason to believe they were lacking because I have one of their digital cables that turned out to be very poor sounding in comparison to others I own.
I decided on a one meter pair of counterfeit Nordost Odin interconnects for a total of $104.00 from Aliexpress. I received them a couple of weeks later. They appeared to be well made, and the locking fake WBT rca's were very impressive and are very tight.
First impressions after installing them were light, thin sound, lacking bass. Each couple of days brought improvements, but from the beginning I noticed that they were quieter. Now, weeks later, I can say that they are drastically better that the LAT's in every way. Detail and ambience are much better, but it's the focus and separation of instruments that is most noticeable.
I have no way of knowing if they are really a copy of the Nordost design, but I am impressed enough that I am going to try a counterfeit Nordost digital cable.
Obviously, this isn't a comparison that is useful to most, because there probably isn't anyone here using the LAT's, and everything is system dependent. I just wanted to relay my positive experience.
Excuse me, there are a number of people who are not cable deniers who purchase Mogami, Canare and other well known cables and think they are very good. Let's put it this way, I have not heard of any recording studios using your knock off Chinese fakes, but I understand that many if not most use Mogami and Canare.
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@roxy54 Thx for the civil reply. My point was if one does not believe there is any SQ difference between any cable or power cord why even bother wasting time and money buying anything but the least expensive. |
" Why not just buy Mogami cables and be done" The answer to your question is that many who can’t afford the real thing are curious about the sound of an imitation that is built in a similar way. It’s not too hard to understand. That said, I took the advice of another poster here and purchased a set of silver Xangsane interconnects which are self-branded, not fake anything, and they are amazingly good sounding and well made for $110.00. There are some good genuine Chinese made audio products. |
@disc Thanks!👍 |
IMO a counterfeit cable buyer says more about the buyer then the SQ or quality of the cable. The question is why would anyone knowingly buy a "fake" cable? They might claim curiosity or some might even believe they are able to copy the R&D of the cable makers. I think many want brand recognition most can't afford a true "Valhalla" cable and fewer won't pay the cost of admission for various reasons. Why not just buy Mogami cables and be done, if you are a cable "denier" "law of diminishing returns" or "snake oil" proponent? |
I was always wary of Aliexpress because the site looks kind sleazy and the delivery times are often over a month. If they send a defective item it could take months to resolve if it could be resolved at all. After reading some of the postings here I ordered a nordin power cable for $100 a couple of weeks ago, it was just shipped a few days ago and it's still in china. Just the wait alone sucks. I hope I get lucky and it's a quality cord. If it is I will consider them for tweaks and upgrades in the future. |
@kot Further to your earlier inquiry, I have a set of phony AQ Dragons. Yesterday I switched them back out for Fidelium Silversmiths, which I had previously used in my system. The latter sound more open and less grainy to me. Not really a close call, at least to my ears. |
Please don't judge the price of PCs by materials used in PCs. My Wavetouch PC is pretty expensive. Why? I invested lots of money, my time and effort to make the best sounding PC and cables. The result -- my wife wowed while we were listening below music. Original music for reference Below is an excellent sample with more money and effort. Alex/Wavetouch |
I never said they sound the same. Those are your words @jerryg123 . |
I think it’s kind of a cool ’marketing 101’ thought experiment to hear the various opinions expressed here. And audio cables are the perfect product. Most would agree that a $10,000 power cord (authentic) is a bit silly, even if most would agree after listening that the cord is an amazing addition to any system. And most would agree that a Chinese knock off at $30 virtually guarantees that it will not sound anything like the original. Still, the low price is intriguing, even so low as to induce some to experiment to see just ’how good’ the attempted replica is. Of course there are mixed results from "pretty damn good" to "plastic junk"; likely realizing that similar performance could be achieved with cheap Walmart or Amazon cables. What is most interesting to me is just where to buyers draw their own "line" in deciding price|experimentation|value|sound. For example, some would not spend $30 on an obvious fake (Nordost Valhalla/Odin PC), (too cheap), but would spend $350 on what is very likely a fake Audioquest Dragon|Firebird. Or $130 on an, ahem.. replica Shunyata Snake or Kubala Sosna or Kharma or Siltech. Interesting thoughts and thread. 😄
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+1 @kot Never mind that my post had nothing to do with envy of any sort, let alone penis envy. Maybe he just likes thinking about them. |
@wesheadley winner of the stupid post of the day. Guarantee you that you cannot not rank five quality cables by their price. Nobody is saying a $40 cable is equal to a $40k cable-- the materials cost between those to poles would be vastly different. I think spending hundreds on a quality cable is more reasonable when you look at materials and time-- and when you look at it from that perspective, then no, you cannot qualitatively rank a set of cable's audio quality by price. |
@roxy54 you keep saying that. Penis envy? @bigtwin sorry the denier bit was for the other fella @wesheadley. I agree $40k is crazy but who are they praying on? A guy with puck you money? LOL they are going to do what ever they want. Gullible no more that you buying a $40.00 cable if the next guy is using a $5.00 one from Amazon…. Perspective I guess.
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Guarantee you that you cannot not rank five quality cables by their price. Nobody is saying a $40 cable is equal to a $40k cable-- the materials cost between those to poles would be vastly different. I think spending hundreds on a quality cable is more reasonable when you look at materials and time-- and when you look at it from that perspective, then no, you cannot qualitatively rank a set of cable's audio quality by price. |
Because it is a cultish con-job. There are a lot of people out there that love audio and want to do right by their systems-- not just pi$$ money down a blackhole when there are far better ways to improve the sound of their systems. Making baseless claims about obesely expensive cables is a con-job. Perhaps you need to get over your resentment of the people that simply and helpfully point that out. |
@jerryg123 Once and for all, I am not a cable denier. I use only brand name, bought from approved retailers, cables in my system. Puritan Ultimate, AudioQuest, Furutech, Morrow and Snake River. I have not personally heard any noticeable improvement in sound with the addition of any of these cables. I hope the collective improvements have helped with the sound of my system. I accept my 68 year old ears may not be able to hear the freaking incredible improvement in sound that some can hear by simply installing a single new power cable. Such as, and I quote, "a huge improvement in the soundstage, both wider and deeper. Near three dimensional. The bass was noticeably tighter. I could really pinpoint each musician and there was just more air between the notes. I was hearing details in the music I had never noticed before" Must be nice. I do take issue with companies that prey on the gullable and charge prices that common sense would say are ridiculous. You want to spend $40,000 on a 3 foot pair of cables? Fill your boots. Prices like that make me look stupid by association. Your opinion is as valid as mine. Makes the world an interesting place.
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@bigtwin there are the haves and the have nots of the world. If you have $40K to burn on cables, then so what if I have a cable company, I am going to make a pair of $40K interconnects for you to spend your hard-earned money on. Why is this so upsetting for you people? It's simple capitalism, Nordost is not some TV preacher or politician convincing the poor downtrodden people to donate to their cause, give me $20.00 and you get into heaven. They are selling a product that clearly people want and are willing to pay $40K. Guarantee you your $40.00 fake interconnects sound nothing like the real deal. But then again you are a cable denier. both you and @wesheadley I will stick with quality made products from companies that are here in North America and that the CCP will not benefit from me purchasing their product. Some things we have no choice in like cell phones and the like, and that is a shame, but here you do.
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Thank you. I forgot to mention the Furutech comment, which is something only a nouveau-audiophile like Jay would say. How could he possibly think that that would be genuine Furutech? Also, he owns a genuine Nordost power cord, but doesn't mention that he, or anyone else could confirm its authenticity through the serial number. |
The best line in that video was "I believe these are real Furutech connectors " when he was comparing the real and fake cable male ends. Yup, for $39 dollars you get all fake cable with genuine Furutech connectors. NOT! 🤣 No one is claiming they get getting the real thing from AliExpress but many are saying the fake Nordost coast sound VERY good. So then the real issue for me is always how companies like Nordost can charge $40,000 for a pair of interconnects. Maybe they really do have Fairy Dust in them? |
The reason I take the time to post about cables is that IMO the companies that make the extremely expensive ones make baseless claims that do not even remotely justify the stupid money they are asking for so many of them. This is akin to selling snake oil-- baseless claim and obscene profits. Sorry if that bugs you, but everything that I have said about this subject is incontrovertibly true. Disagree? Then take me up on one of my testing scenarios and show me that you can reliably rank cables based upon their price. I have a pretty high resolution system BTW, and have experimented with cables for years. I'm still open to being wrong, but I don't need to tell myself fibs in order to feel that I'm right. Better to focus on your actual gear and room acoustics than the occult claims of cable manufacturers. There are far too many conmen in this hobby-- I think they SHOULD be outed for making BS claims. Maybe it will save a few folks exploring these forums from joining the army of true believers and getting ripped off in the process. So why does that bother you so much? |
That's quite a video. Thanks for sharing. A couple of thoughts: 1. I haven't reviewed every response in this thread, but I don't recall anyone claiming that Faux-dins are physically identical to Odins. Nor do I recall anyone claiming that they sound the same. I do recall consistent testimony that the the Faux-dins punch above their weight based on cost. 2. His video will be very useful to Chinese producers. He gave them relatively easy to implement list of changes to align their products more closely with the original. 3. One point, though, is well taken (though it's been made here for months): the used market for expensive cables is now far more fraught for buyers. 4. When did caveat emptor become fresh again? Did we have a moment as a culture/market when we forgot? If so, I missed it. I do recall a period when folks thought that the then-new tech companies were more humane and less mercenary, but that didn't last and I didn't realize we had generalized. Feeling a bit caustic today. |
I just watched that video...what a hoot! So, Jay just discovered counterfeit Nordost cables, and now he thinks that he's giving us all the news for the first time. Maybe someone should give him the news that the fake ones have a good number of satisfied customers who use them, and also have enough money left over to buy a nice new car. So glad that he quit audiogon when he saw that there was no money to be made here. |
Thanks so much for your information! I actually have written them, but thus far gotten no reply. Surely seems a VERY decent cable, however as I need two full pairs for full bi wiring, still little apprehensive to spend about 1000$ , even if they offer a return option for 15 days, as silver cables usually take alot longer to break in .... |
@kot They look very intersting so I asked a few questions to the seller. For what it's worth, here's the information: Can you please tell me the following. When you say 16 cores pure silver, is that 16 cores in each cable (total 64 cores) or 16 cores total meaning 4 cores per cable (4 x 4 = 16). Also, what is the purity of the silver? OCC or Oxygen Free. And last, are the wires 100% siver with no copper or are the copper wires with pure silver coating? Thanks you. Read 00:32
one piece cable have 16 cores , 4 pieces cable total have 4*16= 64 cores cable is 100% pure silver cable 100% pure silver with no copper So that looks to be one hell of a cable for the price? Cheers,
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Didn’t you say on the other thread you never post about cables? Every single post of yours here is about cables. Some pathological hatred you have, maybe from your childhood?
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The problem is that "the real" are fake, and "the fake" are about as real as "the real". It all comes down to the pseudo science and fake claims made by the big bucks cable companies. What is "real" about both are the materials used to make them-- and in the case of many cable fakes, those materials are about the same. I’d be willing to bet anyone that they could not hear any difference consistently between the real and the fake in any decently run double blind test. IMO, "the real" are sometimes more fake than "the fakes"-- because of the absurd and unsubstantiated claims made by "the real" cable companies. You know, the ones making OBSCENE profits from selling you "the real" versions. Do good cables make a difference? Yes! Is there even more difference if you spend thousands per cable? Sorry, nope, nada, no way, no how. |
