I am not sure where you are located but but if you can find a magico dealer near you I would suggest you audition the A3. To my ears they are a much better speaker than the 804 and better build quality too. They are a bit more expensive but well worth it imo.
confused and don't know what to do
We would like to buy a nice audio system and also have this double as a surround sound but listening to music is the priority. We have listened to many speakers but have settled on the B&W 804's. Now the challenge is to select a receiver and all the other accompaniments we require. We have a little challenge in that our home is a condo and the outside wall is all glass. The space is combined kitchen, living room, and dining room all open with hardwood floors and hard tile on the walls of the kitchen and a lot of granite counter tops. It seems that every where we go, the recommendations are different depending on what the store is selling and of course, the sales people would like us to buy the most expensive. What would give great sound without going crazy. We are thinking about 2 tribe sub woofers and space is limited and an in wall center B&W speaker but we don't know what we are doing and don't want to throw our money away. Help! Too many choices and we don't have enough knowledge. Thank you so much.
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This video requires payment to watch???? Lol, big skip there https://www.google.com/search?q=rev%20runs%20rennovation%20secret%20cinema&newwindow=1&clien... |
Here’s an example of a receiver with preouts that won’t break the bank. https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F133312059142 If you go this route you can buy amps that will last for years and years and just replace the receiver when tech changes |
here is my advice. Get a preamp with home theatre bypass. Plug all youR music sources into this preamp. Get a badass two channel amp for the front speakers. Get as good of a multi channel amp for the other speakers. I use a vintage Mcintosh mc7106 6x100w amp for mine. Then go but a cheap or refurbished Dolby Atmos receiver that has preamp outs for all channels. Don’t spend mega bucks on the atmos receiver because that technology changes every two years so it will be obsolete in no time. Hook the preamp outs form the receiver to your music preamp on the home theatre bypass inputs and hook the rest to the multichannel amp. If you follow this set up whenever the technology changes all you have to do is upgrade the receiver just make sure which ever one you buy as preamp outs and your system is future proof. |
Oh, wait, I just read the room thing. Have you heard those speakers in your home? Can you add any room treatment on the ceilings?? For instance, if the ceiling is white, get white panels. I would strongly caution you not to buy speakers without listening to them in the same acoustic environment. If your dealer's room is well treated, and you are going to be suffering a lot of reflections you may be disappointed. Room correction does help this though. Otherwise, rather than wide radiating speakers you may be best served by something horn loaded, or an open baffle design which has highly controlled dispersion. Best, E |
You obviously have concerns about the "room" (perhaps better termed "environment") all this gear is going to work in. And rightly so, based on your description. So please don't spend all your budget on the gear just to put the best gear in a room which wont allow you to appreciate it. Spend some of your budget on room treatments (whether its specific audio products like reflection/absorption panels, bass traps, HFTs, whatever; or generic things like curtains, rugs, etc) and you will get a better result in a bad room from mid-level gear than from high-level gear. (The dealers will hate you for this of course). Remember that its very unlikely that what you hear in the dealer's show room will be what you hear when you get everything set up in your own listening space, unless you take steps to make that listening space as conducive as possible to reproducing music well. |
Despite blabbing at length I realize I forgot a couple points. Even though you have a tough room, the better AVRs have decent room correction built in that will help you deal with that. I’d say Anthem has a leg up on others with their proprietary ARC room correction, but that needs to be reconciled with your budget. For your center channel, I’m not a fan of in-wall if you can accommodate an in-room center, but if ya gotta ya gotta. I can’t speak to B&W in-wall speakers, and despite not being a huge B&W fan myself I do very much like their center speakers and would find it hard not to pair the 804s with the HTM2 D3 (I’d suggest going with cheaper surround speakers to get the best center you can as the center is absolutely critical to fully enjoying the HT experience IMHO). The HTM71 S2 might be a workable alternative if the D3 isn’t in the budget, but I’d consider it a distant second. Anyway, FWIW. |
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As a card-carrying audiophile with a fairly expensive dedicated 2-channel rig at home who also worked for Magnolia at Best Buy, I can speak with some considerable experience on their gear. First, I’ve never been a fan of B&W speakers mainly because the yellow Kevlar drivers really turned me off. Having spent significant time with their new Diamond series with the silver Continuum mids I can say whatever they did has fixed the problem I had with the older drivers. I spent more time with the 804D3s than any other speaker in the store and I have to say the new 804s sound very good. I compared them directly to the 704s and I found the 804s to perform at a significantly higher level (as they damn well should for the considerable price difference) when fed with good recordings and appropriate electronics. Ok, there’s my preamble. Now, I have to say I completely agree with @audiotroy that if 2-channel is your priority, and frankly to do full justice to the 804s, you should strongly consider either an integrated stereo amp or stereo pre/amp separates. It’s insanely easy to incorporate these seamlessly into your HT setup and be able to change between HT and pure 2-channel at the push of a button — literally two systems in one and best of both worlds. I also agree with @erik_squires and his Anthem recommendation for an AVR, and if HT is also very important to you and it’s in your budget you can’t go wrong with Anthem. However, if HT isn’t quite as important and/or you’d rather spend less there and put the available dollars elsewhere I’d very highly recommend the Yamaha Aventage RX-A3080 that you can get from Accessoriesforless.com for $1300. I got to use all the AVRs at Magnolia with the 804s, and for whatever reason there was a special synergy between them and the Yamaha such that it was on the level with my much pricier home system. Quite frankly I was amazed at how good this combo sounded with well-recorded stereo material. Obviously the 804s will sound even better with good dedicated stereo electronics or probably an Anthem AVR driving them, but no apologies needed to be made for the music the Yammy/804s produced. I could easily make the argument, if you can’t stretch for the Anthem, to start with this combo and let things break in and give yourselves time to assess and get to know the system in your room. At that point you’ll be in a better position to judge what you might like to improve upon and/or what separate stereo components you might like to audition to improve things further. I’ve blabbed on too long here, but you seem to be looking for some guidance and given my experience with the speakers you’re considering I thought this might be helpful. Best of luck in putting your system together. |
OP we live part of the year in a condo with a large great room and a wall of windows, very good sound is possible with attention to detail, component selection and proper setup - furnishings help and maybe even some pleasing acoustic treatments. what is the real no kidding budget ? i happen to agree in a reverberant space the B&W you picked should be avoided. where are you located ? There will be trusted dealers posters here can recommend. the Totem subs you picked, how did you find / choose those ? I have a Totem system in a sunroom, sounds great with NAD power, a 40’ glass wall....but speaker position is everything in that room have fun, enjoy the journey |
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I'm doing what audiotroy advised, i.e, I'm using a Denon AVR for the center and surround speakers, and a pre-amp/DAC fed into a Krell power amp for the front L/R speakers. The pre-amp is a PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC, which has the home theater bypass feature. Sounds pretty good on both movies and music. As suggested above, you can get a nice integrated amp with home theater bypass. I would have gone with an integrated amp if didn't already have the big Krell. |
Excuse us Millercarbon, please list your experience in setting up a Home Theater, all you do is denegrate those people who enjoy the benefits of both. As noted we gave the OP a few solid recommendations how you can use an integrated amp along with a receiver to create a high performing two channel system that also doubles to do home theater by utilizing a surround sound receiver. We have also listed the reasons why a two channel integrated amp will outperfrom a surround sound recevier. Our experience in this area has been demonstrated by the fact that we ae a professional company that actually builds theaters and we are very into two channel music oriented systems as seen by the brands we sell, we sell mostly two channlel systems and parts. As per selling the OP anytning that will all depend on if the OP wants to contact us and we can put something together that will work for the OP. We have consulted with many people over the years because we have the experience and we have the products as well. Our experience has been learned by studying with Keith Yates, Toni Grimani, Russ Herschelman, and by putting together 100’s of theater systems over 30 years as well as attending CEDIA and playing with and seting up many different brand of surround sound products. The fact that you don’t understand just how engrossing an experience that great theater offers should sideline you from this conversation. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
millercarbon"What a surprise, the guy with a Home Theater receiver to sell thinks they're just swell. Didn't see that one coming. Dealer willing to say anything just to make a sale. Never in a million years. Good thing everyone knows to trust the guy out to make a buck." That someone makes a profit within this industry does not inherently negate, disqualify, or render useless their advise, information, and counsell so provided an in demonstrated fact there are those who appear to not be connected to the industry for profit who's advise is at least as dubious, suspect, and biased they seem to have a need to be established, designated, and recognized as authorities and experts but I will not name names hear! |
To tie onto what audiotroy said, you could use a good 5.1 and just a 2 channel amp to drive the 804's with the 5.1 in bypass/preamp mode as AT mentioned. That's the simple solution and there are plenty of options to make that happen. Downside is an amp requires air space and may not be a practical solution for you. Again, budget and space limitations are your primary considerations, then buying to create the best sound you possibly can. |
You say listening to music is the priority so I would start with a good integrated that leans to the warm side to go with the B&W 804's and a sub. If you are doing this in stages I would stop there and see if this 2.1 works for you with movies if not then look at adding the seperate surround processor to power you additional speakers needed. Unless you have a bunch of records or want to buy them forget the turntable suggestion that would start running to a lot of money.. |
Actually Miller you could not be futher from the truth. We have a state of the art Home Theater in my shop: KEF Reference Full Surround sound system, Audio Control Processor, Hegel C55 amplifier, all high end cables, Isotek power conditioning, treated room. https://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/audio-doctor-jersey-city?select=LYTdw0XSqJh2BIa6MaoiyA Here is the theater we built for Rev Run https://www.google.com/search?q=rev%20runs%20rennovation%20secret%20cinema&newwindow=1&clien... The point is that a really well executed Home Theater setup can sound fantastic for music as well. Unfortunatly really good Home Theater electronics are expensive, therefore the recommendation to get a great two channel amplifer such as a Hegel, Unison Research, Krell, Naim etc that can drive a great set of music speakers with the surround sound receiver powering the center and rears. Also the OP may really love Movies and Video so you can have your cake and eat it too it just depends on how you design the system. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ: |
Do not buy a receiver. If you do, then at least don't waste money on good speakers. Anything connected to a receiver is just a waste. Only thing worse is multi-channel AV receivers. Its criminal they even sell those. What you want for music is two speakers, an integrated amp, and a turntable or (if you're one of those) CD player. Connected with the best wire you can afford. Whatever you do, don't go throwing money away on multi-channel. Look, think about it. Please. You already noticed you could hear a real difference going to better speakers. Well the same goes for the amp, the source, and the wires. Better costs more, and better sounds better. So you get 2 speakers, they are gonna sound better than any 5 you could buy for the same money. Ditto amp. Ditto wire. Not to mention you don't have the room anyway. Stereo. Integrated. Only way to go. |
Op here is how you do it. If the system is for both music and theater you purchase a really good integrated amplifier to run you main loudspeakers and use a good surround sound receiver to power the center and rear channels. This system design will give you a huge improvement for music as the high end intergrated amplifier will far outperform any surround sound receiver, the reason is simple, in a $2-6k high end intergrated amplifier you only have two channels of amplification, two channels of preamplication, and two channels of dac if the amp has one, vs five to eleven channels of amplification, eleven channels of preap, eleven channels of dac, video switching, dolby decoding etc, all of those parts and circuit boards cost money which means less expensive parts are being used in the surround sound product. To use this setup you just take the line outputs of the receiver and connect those to a line input or HT bybass option on the integrated amplifier you have one additional setup when watching you have to go to the integrated amplifier and switch its input to the HT input and perhaps match the volume depending on the int if it has a volume bybass. As per the loudspeakers you should always buy the best you an afford, the 804D is a much more refinded speaker than the seven series. we would also recommend the Kef Reference line right now they are on 30% off from the factory as they are clearing out Rosewood and Walnut, the Kef Ref 3 are outstanding for both music and theater. The Kef line we prefer over B&W especially for Theaters as the Kef is a true point source and the flared cone provides for exceptional dispersion which is critical for Home Theater. If you stick with B&W look for a warm sounding high powered integrated amplifier to soften the Diamond tweeter a bit. Dave and Troy Audio Doctor NJ |
Budget and space for gear are everything. Do you have room for separates? If not, you will need an integrated. There are plenty of options there. Often, in the situation you are in, some compromises have to be made. Have you considered simply running a 2.1/2.2 system instead of a full surround? I recently did that and couldn't be happier. The music ultimately is more what I wanted to focus on and I found watching movies with the setup is just fine. The down side of doing this really makes your possibilities expand. There are so many options. Gotta nail down a budget for any significant suggestions. B&W 804s are no slouch. Good choice. |
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Thank you everyone who has responded. We have as yet not purchased anything. We listened to the 702's at Best Buy and really liked them but then we heard the 804's and found that we could really hear a difference. I appreciate the comment about the brightness because this could be an issue and we may need to revisit our choice. |
First of all, that sounds like a very reflective and "live" listening environment, so any bright speaker will tend to be really bright in there, unless you do extensive room treatments. I will say, I recently compared the B&W 804D3 to the B&W 702S2 at Best Buy. They had them set up side by side and were able to immediately switch between them. I actually preferred the 702s, as the 804s are just so bright, really bright. I feel like I could listen to the 702s for a longer period of time than the 804s. With the money you'd save by going with the 702s, you could get into an Anthem or Arcam AVR, which are claimed to produce better sound than the more mainstream AVRs. I'm not sure that is the case, but it might be worth exploring. |
I'll let others with far more knowledge respond but I'm curious if you've bought the speakers yet. Since you're starting from scratch, maybe it would make more sense to think holistically about your system rather than start with a pair of speakers and work your way "backward" to the components? Does your store specialize in AV/home theater? They should be able to put together a sweet system. I would imagine that if you look at your total budget, that will help give you a sense of how to prioritize. Good luck!! |