Check in: How quickly are streamers and servers evolving?

In theory, lots of things could look one or another way. Sometimes both ways. I can only share my personal experience comparing 3 different streamers in the range 8-12K, all three of them hooked on my home system. I talk about a Pink Faun, an Evo essence and Evo master. I was highly skeptical that I will hear a substantial, if any difference. Big mistake. Going from Evo essence to Pink Faun was a shock - so much more information and clarity. From the latter one to the Evo master it was a more subtle improvement, but still immediately noticeable. I have played swithching between the three for couple of days and it was always the same immediate difference. Story short - streamers do sound very differntly. Whether it is worth the money, it’s a personal decision. But to claim that whatever streamer you choose or even just using an ipad, makes no difference - sorry, I don’t buy this anymore.

Pro Tools, AutoTune, etc. That ship has sailed. 

Of course, so as other DJ and audio engineer’s tools, but it kind a limited yet. I think it’s will be implemented in streaming services and equipment software soon. 

I think it’s will be implemented in streaming services and equipment software soon.

Roon, HQPlayer, upsampling, also not new. 

Good ideas here. When I was considering updating my audio world (as I am home way more), I came across a Bluesound Node 2i demo for <$300. It does what I would normally do with streaming - mainly background music, and occasional seeking out samples of old stuff that is not in my CD or vinyl collection. 
It’s a marginal DAC and decent streamer. 
Thus my new preamp has a better DAC, so I will utilize that with optical or coaxial interconnected. 
Spotify is moving toward higher quality streaming because Tidal and Qobuz are taking revenue away from them. 
And I’m with you - I’ll not argue the superiority of vinyl  😜

I stream using my MacBook Pro into Schiit bifrost multibite. I have roon to play quobuz and it always sounded great. Open detailed and wide sound stage. Then I installed a giga bite  port switch so my system is streaming by hardwire into my Mac and not WiFi. This difference is one of the biggest upgrades my ears have ever noticed. It has added the depth to the recording I thought was there but now know it was missing. It also brought out more bass and tighter low end than I could have dreamed of. It is not a case that I had bad WiFi as I have great WiFi but when I went to wired connection the beast inside quobuz was awoken. My next tweek will be moving to fiber from Little Green Computer Co. but not sure if I can get any better sound. Once you find the rabbit hole it is hard to resist diving in!

I would say servers are not evolving at all the tech for a good server has been around since before the internet, the hardware and interface is better. Streamers have somewhat in the last 10 years but I think more in the user interface and querying the server. DACs are a solved problem if you’re looking for transparent they can be had for as little as a couple hundred dollars if you want certain types of distorion those can be bought as well usually for a lot more. Cables are not a problem either and good quality ones can be bought for modest prices. USB and ethernet is less of a problem than S/PDIF in dealing with clock problems and interference. If you do have a ground or some electrical problem with USB or Ethernet it can usually be corrected for a sane cost as well. Excellent Digital audio is easier to get than excellent vinyl. It’s very easy to get lost running down a rabbit hole with all the silly things I’ve seen on the net. Be sceptical and think rationally when dealing with the hardware in digital try blind listening and read at least a little about what’s happening in digital transfer of data outside of audiophilia.

Just a small note here: None of the high-zoot hardware that folks are talking about will matter very much unless the source material has been created with the appropriate fidelity. "Garbage in, garbage out." It's analogous to television: What good is an 8K screen unless you have original source material recorded to take advantage of the end reproduction? Please note I'm not saying that today's recordings are crap. Far from it! But what good is having a "better than CD" DAC and/or streamer if CD is what you're going to feed it? So pay attention to what quality your source material is.
Happy listening.

..like I said....this showed up in my e/mail today....

https://shop.mashable.com/sales/audiowow-wireless-audio-studio-in-a-matchbox-size-for-mobile-phone?u...

How fast are things evolving?
Next time you listen to some 'fascinating' speakers, you can 'take notes', literally.... ;)

10% off if you're quick...

...wear the mics on your hat, and hold your head still....*L*

I just finished doing some testing with 3 streaming solutions I have in my office system.

STREAMERS
- microRendu with linear power supply (LPS) 
- opticalRendu  with linear power supply (LPS) (I have 2 of these)
- RJ45 streaming with 1 DAC 

DACS
- Benchmark DAC3B
- AudioMirror Tubadour III SE DAC
- KRELL K-300i integrated amp with internal DAC

My RJ45 streaming was to the internal DAC of my KRELL K-300i integrated (latest model). My network switch is a brand new $199 Ubiquiti Networks switch that has both RJ45 and 2 Fibre slots. I am using regular CAT5 Ethernet cable into the RJ45. The USB cables I used were either free from Benchmark or $25 from Schiit Audio. I am buying a $200 USB from WyWires that has not been shipped yet. I plan on using that one with the winner of this test. A fibre wire goes from the network switch to my opticalRendu and then by USB to one of the 3 DACs. My source of the streaming is a ROON Core on a very cheap server in another room. The musical bits (1's and 0's)  need to travel by PowerLine copper to my office. I use ROON client on cheap computer or iPhone.

For some reason I settled on Fleetwood Mac's Dreams from Rumors as the song I would compare with all the streaming types. There is a lot of percussion hits on this song that are a bit hot sounding but it was interesting to compare this with the 3 streamers.

The RJ45 and the microRendu were about the same on the KRELL. The percussion hits were noticeable and the music sounded good. 

I then flipped the USB cable from the microRendu to an opticalRendu and compared with the RJ45. A massive difference in sound and also volume. I did not need to compare any minor details. There was more of everything with the opticalRendu. The percussion hits seemed like they were happening in my room, so realistic. I also compared the microRendu and the opticalRendu on the KRELL and the same results as the RJ45 and the opticalRendu.

I then compared microRendu vs opticalRendu with a Benchmark DAC3B and also a Audio Mirror Tubadour III SE DAC (tube). In both instances the optical had a massive improvement in sound. I am going to be selling this microRendu and LPS now.

This test for me was to prove to myself whether fibre is really today's holy grail for streaming. I think it is. I do not plan on testing with a dedicated music server (instead of a cheap computer as my ROON Core). I just think the fibre functions as an expensive music server in that it lowers the noise on the network.

The OP asks if streaming is evolving.  Boy, is it ever.  And not always in a good way.
There is a thread in the Digital section on the Roon Nucleus.  Apparently Roon did a software update that KO a lot of users who are now spending hours trying to figure out what went wrong.  I had the same experience with Bluesound—many times—and Bryston.  There have been threads from Innuous, Aurender, Auralic owners...Streamers are IT devices.  Have you ever had an IT problem at work or home?  A printer that suddenly got a divorce from what seemed to be a stable marriage with your laptop?  Imagine the same thing with your music.  When all other IT applications become hassle free then streamers will as well

  CD players are also specialized computers, but it’s hard to beat the reliability of popping a CD in a tray and hit “play”.  Transport-DAC combinations in my opinion are also as easy, the IT issues generally being of a much lesser magnitude than streaming.
And though as Audiophiles we argue endlessly about small sonic differences, essentially streaming and CD replay, into the same DAC, sound similar.  Both are sending 1s and 0s into the DAC.  An Uber priced streamer will sound better than a cheapo CD transport, but if both components are in the same price range, there isn’t much difference.

  Streaming is about convenience.  Get rid of those thousands of CDs.  Have portability, and access to unlimited music catalog, and control it all from your phone without getting your butt out of the recliner.  It’s all great, until it doesn’t work.  My advice is explore streaming, but don’t throw out those CDs just yet

@yyzsantabarbara 

Thank you so much for your careful and perspicuous listening report. I learned a lot from your efforts, and I'm glad you came to a discovery.

Several years ago, a friend showed me his home built setup — he built two very simple computers with kits running Linux, one to process and store (mainly FLAC) files and the other to send them to his DAC. The computers are connected with fibre and have an LPS. Eventually they are played through VTL gear (monoblocks) and giant Maggies. It sounds lovely.

@mahler123 

And though as Audiophiles we argue endlessly about small sonic differences, essentially streaming and CD replay, into the same DAC, sound similar.  Both are sending 1s and 0s into the DAC.

I will admit I have a hard time hearing a difference. But I won't comment on your statement, because I suspect it's like a match tossed into gunpowder in this forum! 

Your other statement about the fragility of technology -- the ability of these IT devices to wind up divorced and non-functional -- is well taken. I have longed for the personal computer to achieve the simplicity and reliability status of other home appliances, but to no avail. It's a shame, as most people use computers for very basic tasks.

I am thinking of getting a Bluesound Node 2i to replace my tuner which is my 6+ (hours) x 7 days music source when I am not listening to vinyl or AV source.  I have a great jazz + NPR (KNKX), classical (KING) and classic rock (KZOK), all of course local.  All have streaming apps also.  Does the Bluesound coordinate internet radio streaming apps well all through an iPad or phone OS?

December of 2019 I added a Cambridge CXN (V2) streamer to the system from Music Direct, 60 day Satisfaction Guarantee.  It sounded horrid but I read somewhere someone else had the same result and it was much better with an upgraded power cord and interconnects so I went that route with a good Audioquest cord and Straightwire Expressivo interconnects..  it was better, not to be confused with good so I just left it on and after a few weeks it was much better....   not Sony XA 5400 ES better but close and that was an A+ Stereophile rated CD/SACD about 6 years ago.
The Cambridge has a remote and an app.  The app is VERY handy and has search functions by genre and sub genre and allows 20 presets all run off your phone.  I use Android but I'm sure they have an Apple version as well.  It also has input controls and has direct Tidal and Spotify access.  Seems there are > 20,000 stations on the net and it will take you awhile to identify those with the highest quality who play selections closest to your taste....  Metal, Hard Rock, Soft Rock... all the way down to acoustic string instruments and acoustic lounge music, singer songwriter and so forth..... literally anything and everything. 

Since I have a selection of about 750 CDs, I thought of getting a server and re-ripping my disks for better access when reading Blue Nodes server stuff in detail I found it takes about 20 minutes per disc..  .. if I commit an hour a day to building the stream library I can probably get through this in a year, and of course there is the issue of power cords, cables and I'm still stuck with Blue Nodes DAC. I decided to go another way and added a Benchmark DAC 3b to the system and then signed up with Tidal through Best Buy for $99 a year for the Hi-Fi level with some MQA's and renewals guaranteed at $119.  Tidal has about 70 million tunes, 250K MQA's and that represents about 6 million albums or so....  and about 50 million with Spotify.  In my experience Tidal has better quality and the way the app functions inside the Cambridge app is much better.
Functionally, I pick a radio station genre I'm in the mood for and play until I run across something I really like and then pull up the artist in Tidal and it will (seemingly always) have everything they have published.  Pick an album to play or que a bunch of songs from it and tap play.  Now, do they have everything in their library ...   I have not been able to find the Original Broadway Cast of Miss Saigon, only the London and International Casts so I'll keep my Broadway Cast CD..  Some of older (bought 30 years ago) Jazz CDs take some time to locate since re-issues and re-masters changed the cover art of many of them and my Mosaic compilations may exist differently there, but they are there along with dozens of albums released under the artists name and dam near everything they sat in on but didn't headline....  very impressive.

Oh yes, get your streamer off wi-fi and get in on Ethernet....  better everything.  Mine is 33 feet of Category 7 Ethernet Cable from our router.

@audio2design I was also very surprised that the volume seemed louder. I did not get out my iPhone DB meter to measure but subjectively I thought it was a bit louder. The fact that it was much better was without a doubt.

I am using the ROON ONLY version of the opticalRendu. I have no need for any other protocol other than RAAT. 

I should have added that when I listened to my setup with my Thiel CS3.7 speakers I used DSP Convolution files running on my ROON Core. Those DSP'ed bits were changed before they hit the DACs. On my RAAL SR1a headphones I have now removed all digital adjustments. In the past, had  bit of a bass boost using the ROON ParametricEQ settings but I have now removed that for the opticalRendu.

It would be so convenient if DAC's had a fibre input like the Lumin X1. Then I would not need an OpticalRendu.

I see the Benchmark DAC3B mentioned above. I have come to the realization that this DAC is a phenomenal performer. It is neutral but amazingly fatigue free for me. My AMT3SE is also fatigue free but that uses a tube. 

The DAC3B is also useful that I can use RCA and XLR outputs at the same time. I cannot do this with the AMT3SE. Vlad the designer, told me it may not work and my test confirmed that there is a problem using both outputs. Likely not an issue for most, but it would have been very useful for me.

4 those that didn't know Spotify has been streaming CD quality with Roon
since last summer. It's quality is very much on par with CD playback.
I've A/B  Spotify HiFi  Ex: Diana Krall SACD tunes against my Marantz RUDY CD player same Stream song vs CD same song at least 6 or 7 times before "I noticed a little longer length of decay on some notes on the her piano."
 Very tiny although!!! But to some V tiny is completely is un-exceptable
at any level. I gave up YEARS AGO trying to build a audio system that was capable letting one hear the rosin fall off the Violin bow strings an hit the FLOOR. It's all about the Music isn't IT??

Been poking around the streamer subject recently hand have been overwhelmed by all the erratic reviews and so forth. But once again, there is no straightforward answer that compels a switch from the current cd and steam Pandora from iPad via BT receiver.  Sound is already terrific IMO.  Maybe ill wait 5 years and may be deaf or RIPing

@tubes444  Thanks for the head's up about Spotify via Roon. Didn't know that. It's not all about the music, of course. If it was, that's all we'd be talking about and you would never have gotten such good gear! Peace!

It's evolved to StarTrek levels because my streaming is voice-controlled  using Alexa, Amazon Music HD and DTS Play-Fi. No extra device needed unless I want to cast my own ripped library, little of which isn't on Amazon, which I also wirelessly cast from my laptop through MusicBee and DTS Play-Fi.

As far as DACs, just go to AudioScienceReview.com and pick the one with the best SINAD in your price range. Although almost none have audible distortion (caused by jitter or anything else). I went with the Monoprice Liquid Spark.

Streamers are evolving at ludicrous speed. Wait, wrong genre. Whatever. 

https://youtu.be/k2B90xlDcp4?t=31

It’s hard to believe some people have been playing the same music repeatedly for the last 50 years and haven’t the native curiosity to hear the universe of new music brought to music lovers from streaming.

Brains get calcified and what's actually paranoia or OCD is passed off as "loyalty" or "objective truth." There are a bunch of news organizations who base their whole strategy off this truth, but alas, their demographic is dying off by the day. 

Does anyone have any experience with the Brennan B2?