CEC Belt Drive CD Transports vs Jay's Audio CD Transports

I was playing Gaucho SACD by steely Dan .This is a copy I just received from Acoustic sounds. Playing with my Marantz SA 10 sacd player. It sounds musically amazing. I ask myself if I go streaming? How much do I spend to buy streamer and dac to beat my sa10 performance?

Bigkidz, I agree on you Cary 306 SACd  tube player. I used to have Sony 9000es tube sacd player , modified by Modwright. I love it. Gave up after 10yrs.I have 2 Raysonic tube cd players the 128 and 268..Iam using reflector tubes.They sound amazing.To upgrade Cary 306 including laser approximately how much Peter?

@whipsaw - they sound different because of the design and parts used.

Understand that power supply is where most of the sound comes from.  If it can filter the noise of the AC, then you get a blacker background, faster transits, more detail, better control of soft to loud and loud to soft speed, etc.  Transformers is where most of this begins.  Then there are capacitors and resistors.  Read up on Audio Note non-magnetic ones and understand why they sound different.  Came goes for capacitors,  Why would V-Cap, Dueland, Milflex all sound different,  Ten you will begin to understand what makes sound.

Happy Listening.  

I have been using a CEC TL5 for some time, and find it to be solid, and very well-designed. It sounds excellent in my system. Customer service is excellent (I swapped remotes). The fact that the belt can be replaced easily is also a big plus, in my view.

I am not typically a "skeptic" (e.g. I use good cables, etc.), but frankly have a difficult time understanding how two high-quality transports would "sound different".

@chayro Oh, I understand now.  Thank you for the clarification.  I'm using a high purity oxygen free copper cable with WBT connectors by Mark Grant from the Naim CDS into my line stage.  All other cables throughout my system are by Acoustic Zen Absolute Copper Foils.including the digital cable connecting whichever cd transport I end up with to the new LTA Aero.

Yes, I am hoping the new LTA Aero will be a better match for my system too.

Thanks again and best wishes to you,

Don

@bigkidz Thank you for your detailed reply!  I found that to be very helpful.

Best wishes,

Don

@no_regrets - no, I meant between the CDS and the preamp. But I looked at your system again and I see you’re not using a Naim preamp. I had the 252/supercap and the combination was outstanding. Perhaps the LTA will be a better match for your system. 

@no-regrets The CEC & Jays sound different.  It has been a long time but here is my input. I was not a big fan of the CEC TL5 transport.  My friend has an older CEC 5100(model) that he preferred for being more musical it that helps you.  The TL-2 newer models not discontinued was an excellent transport.  It bested my older Metronome 2 chassis transport with better details and dynamics in direct comparison.  The Metronome was more musical than the Jays #2 model  The model 3 is a little better than the model 2 a little more open, better dynamics and soundstage.  If you prefer a more relaxed musical sound lean towards the CEC.  A little more of what I would describe as a SS sound, then lean towards the Jays.  One of the best cheap transports was the tiny Nano.  Not sure if it is even manufactured any longer but that little thing blew us away.  Or purchased a used Cary 306 S SACD and send in in for upgrade.  We upgraded two of them and they blew most things we have tried away no contest.

Happy Listening

@bigkidz Hello and thank you for your post.  When I did my search prior to creating this thread, I only came across one thread (back in June of 2022) and it quickly turned into a discussion about the Project transport and LTA linear power supplies.  It really didn't talk at all about any sonic comparisons between the CEC and the Jay's Audio transports, which is what I am trying to ascertain.

I'm happy to hear you say that a really good transport and dac will sound better than a streamer.  It also doesn't shock me to hear you say that it will not sound better than a record. Hence the reason I have been heavily into vinyl for the last 50 years.  Some may say I've just had my head stuck in the sand.

Thanks again for your post!

Best wishes,

Don

@chayro Hi, I'm using the "Super Burndy" which connects the CDSII to the XPS.  Is that what you are asking me?  I'm sorry if I am misunderstanding.

Best wishes,

Don

This topic was already covered  I will not repeat the comparisons.  I will say that a really good transport and DAC to my ears always sounds better than a streamer, etc.  But not a record.  But there are several streamers that are just so good that unless you do direct comparisons most won't know the difference.  Plus spending funds in other areas can provide better results.

Happy Listening.  

I am thinking of the Shanling ET3 for my second system.    It would be a perfect fit

@no_regrets - as an aside, are you using the Naim HiLine IC with the CDS?  It is night and day over the gray standard IC. 

@no_regrets - others may disagree, but I really don’t think Redbook 16/44 has improved since the CDS days. You can buy very good Redbook dacs for less money than before, but IMO, the CDS, 555, Wadia, Vekian and a few others were exceptional. But I’m sure the LTA will sound great and the tubes may give it some warmth you may prefer to the CDS. I’m sure you will enjoy trying. 

@mbmi I love your excitement you have regarding the CEC/Laiv!  I'm curious, what other cd transports have you compared with the CEC? How did they compare or differ in sound?

Thank you for your post!

Best wishes,

Don

@whart I appreciate your recent post!  It seems as though you and I may be somewhat similar.

I do a lot of research, auditioning in home when possible, etc before buying a piece of gear.  I too have been lucky in that I've been very happy with the majority of my gear and have had it all for a very long time.  I'm not a flavor of the month kind of guy.  I buy the best that I can that is within my budget and I am generally very happy with that for a very long time.

I suspect that vinyl will always be my primary source.  But like you, I want to be able to listen to music that I can't find on vinyl.  I've spent hundreds on single records that I really wanted... but I refuse to spend thousands on some of these records and so I am hoping I can find decent sounding cd's of the same.

Yes, I agree... I am hoping there may be a few people who have had the opportunity to hear both the CEC and the Jay's that can share their experiences with me.

Thanks again for your contributions!

Best wishes,

Don

@alexberger Hello and thank you for your post!  I will try and investigate the SHANLING ET3 or SMSL PL200 that you have mentioned.

Best wishes,

Don

@chayro I have to believe that the TL5 with an Audio Note Dac 2.1 Signature is an amazing sounding digital rig!

I think overall the Naim does a pretty good job.  It's dynamic, full sounding with great soundstagning.  But it still sounds digital to me in the way that it can sound hard, and somewhat 2- dimensional at times.  

My vinyl rig sounds 3-dimensional, there's flesh on the bones, a palpable weight to the music.  It just sounds more like real live musicians playing real instruments in a real space.

My Naim gear was supposedly really great back in the day.  At the price point, it sure had better been, lol.  But it never once came close to my vinyl rig.

Decades have come and gone and I'm hoping that digital has come a long way.  I'm skeptical at spending insane amounts of money at it right now.  So I'm dipping my toes back in the water vs just diving in head first again.

I'm starting out with the new LTA Aero Dac  and I'm willing to spend around $2500 to around $5000 for a dedicated cd transport ( hopefully closer to the lower end if possible though ).  It's my hope that this will give me a digital rig that will be satisfying to me. Fingers are crossed.

Thank you again for your post!

Best wishes,

Don

Audiophile 40 yrs....The CEC TL-5 with the LAIV HARMONY DAC  cannot be duplicated for under 20K...Period!

@no_regrets - yes, I think the CEC sounds better than the Oppo as a transport. 

I have a principal residence in Texas, so having somebody local to me is good. 

I really can't help you decide between the two decks. For a long time, I wasn't a digital guy. LPs sounded better. But I learned from archivists how effectively they were able to restore old, lost recordings. And, there are things that are only available on CD or crazy money on LP. So, I added digital to my main system very late in the game. I do have a more modest vintage system that is tied into my home theatre- so I can play SACDs there, but still, I'm basically a vinyl guy. I can't tell you much more. I think you need somebody who has had the CEC and Jay's to give you the answer you are looking for.

I tend to buy gear long term, and don't swap out for the next "greatest" thing. Having gear that is enduring and can get fixed easily is key. In the many years I've done this as a hobbyist, I guess I've been lucky-- I have had issues over the years, but nothing that could not be solved quickly and easily. Best of luck in making your choice, 

Hi @no_regrets ,

If you want really low budget transport and very high value for money you can go for SHANLING ET3 or SMSL PL200.

@no_regrets - I’m using the TL5 with an Audio Note Dac 2.1 Signature. I can’t say whether it outperforms the Naim because it was too long ago. But given that the Naim was 11k back in 2007, I have my doubts. You’ll find out soon enough. 

@oddiofyl Thank you for sharing your comments!  The Teac is a great machine by many accounts and I hope it gives you many years of great and reliable service.  I think I am personally leaning more towards a top loading machine myself.

Best wishes,

Don

@chayro Thank you for your reply!  Yes, the CDT3 is a heavy beast at 50lbs.  However, the CDT2 only comes in at 33 lbs, still heavy, but more manageable.

I'm happy to hear that you've been enjoying your CEC!  Which dac are you using with it?  Does you new combination of the CEC/Dac outperform the Naim you had?

What kind of differences do you notice, if you don't mind sharing with me?

Thanks and again and best wishes to you!

Don

@rsf507 

@larsman 

@oddiofyl 

Thank you to all of you for your posts!  I agree with you.  I have read from many that as good as streaming can sound, even with a very expensive streamer, a top notch cd transport and dac will outperform the streamer sound wise.  Hard to beat the streamer for convenience though I would guess.

My goal is to optimize my CD playback first (within my limited budget) and then at some point maybe add a quality streamer for more or less background music at some point into the future.

Best wishes,

Don

@whart Thank you for your reply!  I've been a vinyl guy for 50 years and love my analog rig and all my minty lp's.  However, I am noticing there is some great music that I am missing out on that I can't get on vinyl, hence the reason I am trying to step up the digital side of my system. Vinyl will still be my primary source though.

Do you think the CEC made gave you a big uptick in sound quality over the Oppo?

I agree, having service is huge!  The Jay's has a service center in Texas and it's nice to know CEC can be serviced in the US as well.

Thank you and best wishes,

Don

I own the CEC TL5 and I am very pleased with it, but I have never compared it to any of the others. I made my decision based on the fact that it is a proven design with US service and not so big and heavy. The Jays Cd3 is 50 pounds. Not for me. Just as an aside, I looked at your system and you will have a tough time beating that CDS2/XPS. I had the CDX2/XPS2 and it was a great player. The CEC TL2 looks like a great player if you want to go the 6k.  You can add some type of external clock, which is supposed to improve it further. Bought mine from Atleleir 13 and I felt the service was very good. 

There are only a handful of good transports available today.   Hopefully any of the above mentioned will be reliable,  but none are really positioned to provide global support easily and cost effectively so you have to just go with your gut on this one. 

I went with the Teac because it has the VRDS drive and hopefully it proves to be reliable.   And I could see the product line in person.  Fingers crossed its reliable.... it's serial # 00001.  What could go wrong ?

@no_regrets I'm a lousy test case- I used an Oppo briefly as a transport and my CD listening is probably 5% of what I hear- I usually only fire up a CD of something that is impossible to get on LP or is crazy expensive and use it as a basis to decide whether to spend on the LP.  

You are smart to ask questions of owners, though. Audio Union, the US distributor, has been solid. Fast turnaround, I replaced a belt, simply b/c I hadn't used the thing in a while. It was shipped fast. 

Ask me about private label jazz on LP and I could probably ramble on. But, here, that's all I got for you. Good luck. I know people respect Esoteric, high end TEAC, but my question is service. Is that an issue or time consuming?  I think it is important to have somebody knowledgeable on the ground where you are located. That's been my experience with a lot of gear. 

I've heard it myself that CDs can sound much better than streaming. It was via a Bricasti transport unfortunately not in my price range. But is was special. 

@jayctoy + 1

Agree.  My Aurender N200 sounds great but not as good as CDs when comparing the two with 44.1k material. 

Audiotroy most of the time I agree with you. But with a good transport and a good DAC  And a nice xrcd ? You can’t just beat this  easy.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/gramophone-dreams-88-teac-vrds-701t-cd-transport

I own this machine.   It's quite good.

@digital3  Thank you for letting me know that TMR has a nice one for sale.  As nice as that does look, I think I will be buying new as I’d like a warranty. 
 

@audiotroy  Thank you for your post. That is a good idea, and I may consider a very nice streamer at some point in the future; but at this moment I just want a very nice transport.  
 

@whart  Thank you for your post!!!

I was hoping to hear from actual users of the CEC transports. I too am a vinyl guy.  I’m thinking digital will only comprise 80% of my listening as I truly love listening to my minty vinyl collection 😉

Did you have a chance to compare the CEC with any other transports?

Which transport did you replace?

Was there a significant improvement in sound?

Thank you and best wishes to you all!

Don

I have the CEC TL 5. It needed something shortly after I got it and Audio Union here in the States serviced and returned it to me in a week. The remote is a cheesy plastic job, but you can buy a heavy aluminum one that is more appropriate. Have not compared it to the Jay's--. I'm more of an LP guy who uses the CD transport as necessary. No complaints, solid unit in my estimation. 

why don’t you consider a server? you can burn your cds and get streaming as well

and a really good server  can outperform a cd transport

TMR AUDIO HAS A MINT CEC TL-5 ON WEB SITE.