It does not matter if it's CD, streamer, blu-ray, sacd, tape, or vinyl, same rule applies to all: garbage in garbage out. It's all in the mastering. Most sound engineers now mix recordings so that they sound loud at low volumes. The reason why hi-res files sound better, or there's a return to vinyl, it's in part because the original recordings are remastered more carefully to sound good with a higher dynamic range rather than mix everything to the limits within 2 or 3db dynamic range. Just take recordings downsampled in mp3 and their remastered version for mp3... world of difference..... Anyway, as long as we don't burn cds, players will be around...
In this days you have pure CD transports that can be connected to an external DAC with amazing results now you don't have to be depend on the internal dac built in the CDP (usually not great ones ) and you can choose any dac you want based on your personal taste ,I bought mine cambrdige Audio CD transport a year ago connected it to my Macintosh pre/dac with astonishing results ,I don't have any desire to move on to a streamer.
That loudness war compilation of good and bad dynamic range does not square with many of the CDs I feel sound very good in my system. Don't let it throw you off something you want--have to listen to it.
Jafreeman That loudness war compilation of good and bad dynamic range does not square with many of the CDs I feel sound very good in my system. Don’t let it throw you off something you want--have to listen to it.
I agree, sort of. For example, Dylan’s Modern Times sounds very good - clear, musical and the playing is great. But it’s dynamic range is quite compressed according to the official dynamic range database. It’s a subtle thing sometimes, but when you hear a CD that has very good dynamic range, you know it. It hits you in the face. And there are other aspects of sound to admire: frequency response, transparency, air, etc. so dynamic range might not necessarily be a deal breaker.
I predict compact discs and players will continue a gradual decline in usage but will never disappear. I do wonder if labels will stop creating discs in another decade or two.
Server/DAC audio quality will only improve; I believe a server as transport can exceed optical media but that will eternally be a source of debate,
Vinyl usage and turntable sales will gradually increase. There's so much passion in the vinyl resurgence - I see it as unstoppable at this point.
The best sounding results for me is dB Poweramp to FLAC. Then served through JRiver on my HTPC to an external DAC. It sounds better than anything online. It also sounds better than the original CD served from my OPPO 103. Where can you download lossless files at Redbook bit rates for less than you can buy the CDs? Everwhere I look they are more expensive which totally blows my mind.
Whatever technology ends up being dominant in the coming years, there still has to be some sort of recording industry to support it and provide content. That's the part I worry about, since the major record companies have been such enthusiastic participants in their own demise. What we seem to have at the moment is a patchwork of world-class musicians scrambling to find distribution for their excellent recordings. Many have begun issuing their own, which may well be the wave of the future and has the advantage of providing a much better financial return to the artists themselves, but has the disadvantage of the absence of marketing and support. As a performing musician, I know that a physical CD is a very handy thing to have in hand to sell at concerts. Also, I was involved in the CD industry at the retail end from the mid 90s until just a couple of years ago. I'm still on board with CDs and I think there's still a future for the CD player. One day they'll probably go the way of typewriters, yes, but that's some way off. And one day (we'll all probably be dead by then) I predict an entirely new, as yet unimagined way of reproducing music will emerge, rendering our present digital universe obsolete.
"And one day (we'll all probably be dead by then) I predict an entirely new, as yet unimagined way of reproducing music will emerge, rendering our present digital universe obsolete."
If Sony's recent opening of a record production plant in Germany is any indication I'd say vinyl might render our present digital universe obsolete.
I'm still a huge fan of CD's and CD players. I've been buying CD's for 30 years, they're cheap, a lot of them sound great and remasters continue to come out. The players also keep getting better. I like to listen to a handful of discs on a Friday night and listen to each one from beginning to end. The thought of ripping them all makes me dizzy. What I could get into is a server that allows me to rip, store and play but then what do I do when it's time for a new one. I'm sure one of you could easily answer these questions for me.
don jr As a dealer I listened to Bricasti M1 Dac. It didn't take a lot of time to convinced me to become a dealer. With no transport I was burning cd's onto my dedicated Mac Book. Then using JRiver as the software and using my computer for playback. At my age software is not my forte and JRiver is above my pay grade. Not being happy with that set up I became an easy mark for the Melco N1 music library, server. Now I team that up with the Buffalo CD burner. I started by burning a few CD's onto my Melco and then while I listened to music I burn more CD's at a rate of about one CD every 5 minutes. All the software is in the Melco, very simple to use. I purchased an iPod mini to act as the remote. I use the free Music Life software on that IPod. The Melco N1 costs 2k and the matching Buffalo burner ( get one on line at Office Depot ) $169. No a big investment and you can begin to leave those CD's in the shelf.
Setup #1: I have a PS Audio DirectStream transport and DirectStream DAC, and with an SACD in the drawer, I2S cable connecting the two, the technical sound quality is as good as it gets (native DSD exported from the transport to the DAC). I also tend to listen to CDs using this pair, when I'm listening to a whole album.
Setup #2: But I also have Roon & Tidal on a powerful Windows10 Pro machine, with a large external hard drive, for streaming or listening to this track and that track, and not an entire album.
I'd say that Setup #1 has the potential for superior sound quality, as the I2S interface isolates the timing from the music, ultimately capable of better performance in the DAC. Also, even with the great selection offered by Tidal, lots of classical music is just not available for streaming, but is on CD & SACD.
I'd say that Setup #2 has the potential for superior sound quality, as Tidal can stream newer "remasters" which might sound better than the CD or SACD that one purchased previously. And HD Tracks has a selection of hi-res digital files, which can be downloaded and integrated into one's player software, part of your Roon library.
So, in short, I have both and am glad to have them.
Many of us have invested a tidy sum on silver discs (CD, XRCD, SACD etc.) I suspect that in the high end of things spinners will be around for a long time. Maybe only one or two models per manufacturer, but as much as I covet my vinyl collection (listening to Japan pressing of Dire Straits right now) I have many, many discs that I listen to regularly. Maybe a silver disc renaissance down the road akin to the current resurrection of vinyl?
Many
of us have invested a tidy sum on silver discs (CD, XRCD, SACD etc.) I
suspect that in the high end of things spinners will be around for a
long time. Maybe only one or two models per manufacturer ...
This makes a lot of sense. Even in this era of streaming and downloads, the LP and FM still endure.
... but as much
as I covet my vinyl collection (listening to Japan pressing of Dire
Straits right now) I have many, many discs that I listen to regularly.
I'm not sure how you can covet something you already own.
"Treasure" is a great word. I treasure not only my LP collection, but I consider many of the individual LPs themselves to be a distinct, special treasure all by themselves.
As long as people have albums they will own a turntable and the same applies to CDs. Why not include an audio server and do all three?, I think it would be a lot of fun. I still use a FM tuner on a daily basis for news and background music and that's fun too.
Exactly phd, why does there always have to be a "winner" in these discussions? Vinyl, CD, streaming...all fit very nicely into the same system. Having the options to chose from multiple sources need not be a contest to determine which is "best" but rather an opportunity to enjoy the choices we have. But, I have been in this hobby long enough to remember that there have always been choices. Reel to reel tape vs LPs, Cassettes vs LPs, CDs vs LPs, streaming vs CDs vs LPs. It's all fun. I just recently started using a Bluesound Node2 and ripped almost 1000 CDs to an NAS drive. Wow! The Bluesound has transformed the way I listen to music. I also stream TIDAL and this adds yet another dimension to my music library. This little device (Node 2) has made an enormous impact on the way I listen to music. Do I plan to get rid of my CDs? No, but I must say that my new Bryston BCD-3 and my Sony ES5400 SACD players haven't seen much use lately. I am amazed by the sound quality of the Node 2 playing both music from my FLAC collection and TIDAL selections. I recently did a fairly comprehensive upgrade of my entire system; new Vandersteen Quatro CT speakers, new Dynavector XX2 phono cartridge and Bryston BCD-3 and as good as these components are I would have to say the $500 Node 2 is the biggest game changer. Maybe as the newness wears off I will get back to using my CD players and turntable more but right now I am totally smitten with the Bluesound product.
Everything is relative. Comparing CD to cassettes, for instance, I find cassettes more dynamic, more entertaining/musical, more full bodied and more raw. I will listen to CDs on occasion, however.
For audiophile, I should say CD players are the best in terms of audio sound quality. Even though I used my portable speaker most of the time, I still love listening my playlist CD collections from my CD player. So I think CD player is not dead and will not. I used my portable speaker most of the time because it is more convenient. I can pair with my phone and play it, and I can stream latest tracks directly from it too because it has Wi-Fi. Regarding sound comparison, I'd say CD is perfect. My portable bluetooth speaker also just sounds great even while streaming music over Wi-Fi. The sound clarity is almost negligible.
i mis the feeling of listening with concentration. With Roon i
skip/swipe/search as a madman (and listen). With a cd i’m more in the
music. And listen front to back with patience.
Yes, this the problem with streaming in a nutshell. We don't commit to listening to the whole album, as the artist intended.
CD players are long from being dead. There are people out there with better ears and systems than me who have yet to hear a streaming system better their CD players. Granted, we're talking expensive CD players but even some of the mid level priced gear sounds great. It's all in the implementation.
On another note, lots have been said about all that could go wrong in a CD player but it doesn't necessarily mean that it does. Some get it right the first time right out of the box. PC audio and streaming are continually evolving and improving and people are flavoring it to their tastes, despite the "perfect" nature of it. I'm content to occasionally tweak things.
Let's not forget good old vinyl: 6-8 bits of music (maybe 12 with a great pressing) squeezed properly and the added distortion (as much as 10 bits) in the higher frequencies from the cartridge to accentuate the highs and it still sounds wonderful. There are so many ways to skin this cat so let's keep all options open.
I don't think sound quality is the issue anymore. I ripped all my cd's and they sound the same, perhaps a tad better than a CD player due to reduced jitter. Perhaps a tad, but pretty much the same. However Tidal when used with Roon is special. Sounds every bit as good with MQA material sounding even better than CDs. I have done the comparisons vs PS Audio Perfectwave Memory player which is an outstanding transport. The Memory player bested my previous $5000 CEC transport.
I suppose it it all depends on the system and total synergy, but experience proved to me that my set-up - Music Vault Ultra II from Sound Science with Tidal and Roon is the ticket! Many front end combos out there that will no doubt yield differing results.
If I had more money, I'd definitely look into streaming and memory players. For a while I had my eye on that one from Parasound that played a CD from memory while spinning it, but even that was too dear for me, price wise. Oh well. 😎
I have 25,000 LPs and 7,000 CDs, 7,000 78s. I was not a CD adherent until I purchased an EAR Acute CD player (upgraded the horrid stock A/C cable and upgraded to NOS tubes). Then, my well remastered CDs (I toss badly remastered ones) sound as good as my megabuck analog front end. Many CDs sound better than their LP counterparts (especially Decca mono classical box for example). I could not collect and hear the fantastic early opera and piano recordings on CD mastered by Marston Records any other way. I still have 78s which sound very dynamic if frequency challenged due to most not having been transferred or adequately remastered onto LPs and CDs. So, I hope CD players continue to be made at the current higher quality than seen during the first 15 years (generally yuk) so that I can enjoy the great sound and convenience of my CDs. CDs also take up much less room on my shelves than analog and with good reissues, have much better info booklets than most LPs provide. Three cheers for CDs!
I use my Oppo only for blu-rays. CD disks are for ripping and archive. It’s easier to get to really low jitter without the CD transport. If you must use a CD transport, at least reclock it:
As you can see, the jitter is 35 times higher using only the transport. DACs are not jitter immune either. Even DACs with upsampling sound better with a low-jitter input signal.
Using the reclocker also eliminates ground-loops, upsamples the data and negates the need for CD treatments, green pens, destatic etc... Don’t waste your money on CD tweaks. Buy a reclocker instead. Much more effective and can give you 20psec of jitter, as good as a $20K+ transport.
IMO I still use a CD transport but I also build my own DAC & Phono Stage. Each has a 35 pound power supply. I prefer tubes also. I had to build the DAC to accept digital form PCs about a year ago because of demand. In direct comparison, I like both sounds (built my own server) also. I still prefer the overall sound of the transport because it still has a more emotional sound to my ears. Both have a excellent sound, it is just my preference. Recordings were form master recordings, SACD, etc., so they were the best I could find. Funny thing is that a well known manufacturer of CDPs and CD transport told to stop using transports (even though his company sells them) so go figure that one. Tranports still make a difference. We recently compared my friends modifed tube Metronome CDP used as a transport to my old CEC TL5100Z and the CEC was much better. There are inexpensive transports that are almost as good as the older higher priced ones but you have to experiment and listen for yourself and make your own conclusions. Nothing wrong with either way as long as you are happy. Having a ton of music at your finger tips is really nice though! BTW the phono stage that I build kicks the ass of the CDP and streamer but I hate the pops and clicks!
Elizabeth nice acquisition. My experience differed last week. I listened to the SA10 for the first time at CarltonAudio in Melbourne. It was nice if rather squashed processed sound. Heard with nice cables and the PM10 through a pair of PMC Twenty5 26. Then I listened to an Acoustic Research Reference CD9. I found that unit significantly more open and transparent. It was much nicer to listen to. We changed out the PM10 fearing that was part of the compression experience. It was and the new amp was another step in a better direction. The quest continues.
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