Cary SLP 98 vs Benchmark LA4

They're really very different... the Cary is definitely what I would call warm (but that doesn't mean that it obscures any details). The Benchmark is as stark neutral as it gets.

Warm, as in normal "tube warm" or is there something more like a Cary signature of some sort?

Yes, these are very different. Cary is musical and natural sounding... a bit warmer than Conrad Johnson and quite a bit more than Audio Research. Benchmark highly detailed and somewhat sterile sounding. Long term, I have found the highly detailed and sterile sound to be very unsatisfying.

If you want a musical satisfying preamp, I’d recommend looking at Conrad Johnson, Audio Research, Zesto, Cary or VAC... not all are well regarded tubed preamps. 

To @billpete for the Cary SLP-98 it also depends on how old it is, and which version of factory upgrades it does or does not have.  Some of the older version caps installed are quite different sounding from newer version 98s with totally different coupling caps, different 6SN7s. I can make my system sound more neutral by just swapping in neutral detailed tubes and less rich sounding caps in the 98. Its also super responsive to different type interconnect cables depending how transparent the rest of the system really is.  

I had the Benchmark LA4 and there were things that I liked about it, but in the end I replaced it with a Pass XP-12. This was a nice change and added some character back to the music. If you are limited to these two choices, I would lean towards the Cary. But my advice is to expand your choices if you are not convinced it is the barest solution. 

I owned the SLP-98 and I really enjoyed it but it certainly leans towards the warm side.  It may be a great match since you're a vinyl lover.  Can you audition it?

I think that the SLP-98 is a work of art. How long has it been in production? I keep it as a regular search item, because I enjoy seeing them in their different iterations. I've never heard one, but maybe one day. I tried a bit of Dennis Had's Inspire gear (two preamps and a power amp) with my Omega system for awhile before going to an Aric Unlimited II preamp. Nowadays I'm thinking I might like to try a 6SN7 based preamp.

So I'd love to pair an SLP98 with the Aleph 5. There's a sweet Jaguar red F1 version on the lists right now. On the other hand, I might like to hear the Benchmark as well, because I appreciate yyzsantabarbara's system choices.

I had an XP-12 briefly, and felt that it would require a system-wide makeover. I felt that my then current sources were not up to the resolving  potential of the XP-12. I found an X2.5 which I found to be quiet and musical, and still overbuilt. It has the infamous brick of a remote. I see two for sale today.

I suspect that you might like the Cary, given your existing phono pre. They both do seem to change hands often enough with continued interest. And if you would consider at some point, I'd enjoy a picture of the AR9s.

You can easily roll tubes to tailor the sound of a the Cary a bit.  You might be able to roll some opamps to tailor the Benchmark to your liking if you're up to it, but it's no where near as simple.  Just some food for thought.

I'm leaning toward the Cary, since I have always loved the PH 301. Rolled a lot of tubes in and out of that phono pre. The SLP 98L that I found, does not look to have any upgrades but is only 8 years old so not sure how much improved it is over the originals. I believe it sells as a 30 day money back trial. When I spoke to Cary Direct, they spoke of about 3 upgrades that they recommend the most. Seems to me, they should just do it automatically but not how it works. 

My SS components may lean a tad to the bright side, which is possibly why I favor the vinyl so much, at least in part. My room is also bright, which is something I'm working on. Log walls, 7 glass doors and 3 large windows. I'm starting to cover all glass with "soft absorbent coverings". It's a work in progress but I can hear improvements as I go.

I have watched Cary move from 12AX7 and 12AU7, to I think ECC88? and on to 6SN7 and I forget what is in the 05 but it is interesting to see that things progressed to a tube that was in every television set in the 1950's. I remember taking them to the stores to test when I was a kid. Tube testers were everywhere. Funny, how things "progress". 

Anyway, I've read so many things about the SLP 98 that I'm 90+% certain that I'd be happy with the Cary for the rest of my life. I know the Benchmark is a different animal and I may or may not like it. I would not if everything sounded sterile. Thanks,

Bill

Tried to post pics of my AR9's but can't figure out how. 

A couple other preamps up for consideration (if I miss the SLP98 or get talked out of it) are AR Ref Mk2 or Wells Audio Commander Level 2. Both available at reasonable prices. I know nothing of Wells, other than a few good comments here and there. AR gets mentioned all the time. Any advice on these or how to post images would be appreciated. Thanks,

Bill

and I forget what is in the 05

6SN7s.

6SN7 seems to be a favorite anymore. Interesting how it goes over the years.

You could hardly pick two different sounding preamps if you set out to. I’ve owned both and didn’t care for either.

Depending on the vintage of the Cary, it’s a colored preamp. At least the earlier version I had was. I know the newer F1 versions are more transparent. So that might be worth a shot.

The Benchmark is very transparent but to my ears was clinical and not very involving at all. And I love a good passive pre, this wasn’t like that at all.

@billpete , I picked up a secondhand and modded SLP 90 back in '99, and I really loved what it did for my system.  That typed, prior to that I had a B&K digital HT pre, so I probably could only go up from there.  Anyway, that SLP 90 did have 12AU7s in it, and I remember being real happy and having lots of fun with the sound after Andy of Vintage Tubes set me up with some vintage Mullards for that.  (At the time I had a pair of ARC VTM 120s that Andy sold me some vintage 6922s for the front of, and the system really seemed to mesh.)

Anyway, a few years ago (I've lost track) I upgraded to the 6SN7 based SLP 05.  Not nearly as warm, but the detail struck me as incredible when I first put it in my system.  

I'm leaning toward the Cary, since I have always loved the PH 301. Rolled a lot of tubes in and out of that phono pre. The SLP 98L that I found, does not look to have any upgrades but is only 8 years old so not sure how much improved it is over the originals. I believe it sells as a 30 day money back trial. When I spoke to Cary Direct, they spoke of about 3 upgrades that they recommend the most. Seems to me, they should just do it automatically but not how it works. 

And be aware, @billpete , that if you order it from Cary Direct and have them do the upgrades before shipping it, I am pretty sure that this voids the audition clause of the contract.  Meaning that if they upgrade it before they sell it to you, they are not taking it back if you change your mind.

I believe Cary is going to stop production of the SLP 98, this year. I have been watching used pieces mostly. I had not heard about the audition clause and warranty loss but it may well be. I'd been looking at a used one and a 30 day return policy was in place on it. 

I believe Cary is going to stop production of the SLP 98, this year. I have been watching used pieces mostly. I had not heard about the audition clause and warranty loss but it may well be. I'd been looking at a used one and a 30 day return policy was in place on it. 

It has been a while since I've been on Cary Direct's site, but I am about 99.9% positive that they had that disclaimer about no return if one ordered an upgrade on the gear one ordered from them.

That typed, the SLP 05 I bought was a unit that Cary Direct was selling as preowned, and I did order and pay for "The Ultimate Upgrade" and I had no desire whatsoever to send it back.  

And, if you were to buy a unit that offered 30 day audition and the one you ordered had already been upgraded, I don't see how that could effect the audition period.  

@billpete I believe Cary is going to stop production of the SLP 98, this year. I have been watching used pieces mostly. I had not heard about the audition clause and warranty loss but it may well be. I'd been looking at a used one and a 30 day return policy was in place on it. 

Checking - SLP-98 is not listed under preamplifiers right now on the site.  This happened a few years back where the SLI-80 integrated disappeared for a while. Now it's back again as the HS model.  If you find a nice one used or new, they are enjoyable. Might be worth giving them a call.  

A preowned SLP 98 may come up on their site.

To @billpete are you looking for Silver or. Black, and the older model with softer and more rounded edges on the knobs or the newer units with the sharp edges on the knobs and volume control?  Look at the images to see what I'm referring to.  Some of us here keep eyes out for gear for fun and can pass it along if someone pops up in different places. 

Black matches my other components and all things being equal, I would choose black. If the best one was silver or red, I'd probably go for it. That said, I do keep my options open and other suggestions pique my curiosity as well.

To Ozzy62

What was it that you didn't like about the SLP 98 or the Benchmark? Most of the feedback that I am seeing on the LA4, is that it's too clean or sterile. That seems strange to me if it plays back what was recorded accurately but it sounds as though it is taking the life out of the recordings somehow. Not sure, but enough bad is being said that I'd likely steer clear of it.

As to the Cary, there are a lot of differences in vintage, upgrades and even tubes. I have found major differences in various tubes (nearly all of them very old vintage) over the years with my Cary phono stage. Interesting that you tried two very different products as well, one tube and one very modern SS. One of my thoughts is to bring tubes into my cd listening. Something I've never had but am interested to try. Cary and a lot of other preamps would do that for me. 

The Benchmark ultimately added a “sheen” to the overall sonic picture. Although it was dynamic and pretty transparent on first listen, it grew fatiguing over time.

My version of the Cary preamp was at the opposite end of the spectrum. It was warm and lush to a fault. No snap or leading edge of a note. Like I said above, later and upgraded versions are probably a different animal.

BTW, I owned these two preamps 20+ years apart.

Thanks for the reply

LA4 is pretty new, SLP 98 goes waaaaaaaaaaay back, 27 years. I guess they thought enough of it to keep bringing it back with upgrades. The PH301 was similar and then on to the PH302, probably not a great deal different but I don't know. I have the first one and am still very happy with it. The 98 is still talked about by many people, as you know. I don't really get upgrade-itis, I just need a replacement for a tired old pre. Always wanted to try a full tube pre anyway. I've heard at least a few people claim that my old pre (Parasound PLD2000) had a tubey sound anyway. Whether it did or didn't, I can't really say. I just found it pleasant in my system. An old buddy of mine used a CJ, not sure of model and it was very nice in his system.

Take a look at the Universal 6 or 12SN7 preamp from Mellow Tone Kits. You can buy it assembled if you want. I had the Cary SLP-98 many years ago and replaced it with an Emotive Audio Sira and then the Epifania, which I still own.

I have many nice pairs of NOS 6SN7 tubes and wanted to use them instead of them just sitting in storage so I built this kit. I'm going by memory but I think this preamp sounds better than the Cary. The tube filaments are powered by a SMPS, so you can swap between 6 volt and 12 volt tubes, which means 12SN7 tubes. And in addition, with tube socket convertors you can also use 12AU7 and 6GU7, 6FQ7, and 6CG7 tubes. It's a very musical preamp and fun for tube rolling. 

jdal

Thanks. It is interesting. I may pick one up to have my son build it. He wants to learn how to do this stuff anyway. Might be kind of fun. I'll probably still be searching for something with a remote but if this thing can sound better then an SLP 98, who knows. I do like the types like Cary (and this) with tubes out in the open. Makes rolling much easier and I do have a penchant for tube rolling. Intriguing suggestion and certainly very reasonably priced.

FYI the Benchmark LA4 can be tried out at home for 30 days.

To my (admittedly elderly) ears it is totally transparent and uncolored.

The LA4, like their other products has an astounding S/N ratio, 137db if you're using the balanced outputs, (as you should), vs the 88db for the Cary.  Plus with three balanced outputs it makes it easy to add a sub or subs.

Retired and tony

The LA4 has great test numbers and specs. As we all know, there is more to it than good specs or tests. Plenty of hot discussions about that here. The Benchmark is not exactly what I was looking for but listening to the conversation with John Siau, made me at least consider it. I really want to try a tube preamp that has a remote, is designed to push two amplifiers and offers both XLR and RCA connections. Narrows it down pretty well. Thanks again for your input.

I have the Benchmark HPA4 (same as the LA4) and love it. However, I want to also get a tube preamp, and I have narrowed it down to the Raven Revelation. There seems to be a lot of good pedigree in this unit.

Raven Preamplifier — Spatial Audio Lab

push two amplifiers and offers both XLR and RCA connections.

I need this feature set too.

yyz

I read up on it and it does sound interesting. There was a nice long discussion about it here. It is a bit above what I had hoped to spend but I'm not ruling anything out just yet. Thanks for the suggestion.

Yeah, John Siau is one of the true genius designers in the industry and can back up his claims with facts, not voodoo.