Cartridges: Complete Scam?
Unfortunately the OP just cannot seem to comprehend that it is not directly related to cost/value of components. Sometimes it is and a collection of high $ items WILL result in stupendous SQ. More often not it is a matter of system synergy which does not always follow any known cost form factor. I have made many costly "upgrades" only to go backwards in SQ. Did I scream scam at the top of my lungs? No I regrouped and reevaluated my choices and went in a different direction. Trial and error and much good advice on these forums have helped me achieve a semblance of sonic nirvana. But I am content? Heck no, that is not the way of the audiophile....lol. |
It's getting snowing in here. The question reminds me the way of thinking of some new russians who're making their decision by the price. The higher the price for each component in high-end audio the better the quality (in their opinion). The only problem is that those guys never tried to find a decent components for reasonable price, they do not have time for it (maybe) and they can afford whatever price which is good for the dealers. If the higher price in audio makes someone happier than it's not always about quality. This is marketing first, it's like business class tickets. True audiophiles normally upgrade their system step by step and it takes time to compare one thing to another (it's all about experience). If you don't know what you're buying and why the price is very high then it's just stupid, maybe Raul is right. |
@rauliruegas Being honest, your input has had zero value, not only to me but to anyone. "Are you happy with your sound" is a meaningless question; what difference at all does it make if I'm happy or not happy with it? If I'm happy with my sound, does that mean my audiophile journey is complete -- is this the "right" mindset? What if I'm NOT happy, may I continue to pursue better sound in that case? Wether or not I'm happy with my sound has nothing to do with achieving better sound. Isn't there room to be happier? Why do I even need to explain this? Will more expensive cartridges lead to better sound? That is a question that has value not only to me, but to anyone else curious about this topic. It's mind-blowing how far some people will twist themselves into knots in order NOT to answer the question. |
@madavid0 life must be very difficult for you given your propensity to find charlatans and crooks under every stone. You started this thread in the belief that cartridge manufacturers are out to rip you off but that your new MF table is the ne plus ultra of great value for money. Alas, you now are worried MF have scammed you too and that you should have stuck with an old Thorens and not wasted all that money on a new deck. Maybe you'd be better off not buying anything that way you'd never have any risk of feeling ripped off? You could then post online about how clever you were not to be scammed ... remember you cannot take it with you when you die, spend it if you have it and it makes you feel good! |
Dear friends: I don't know you but for me is very dififult to have a good dialogue/discussion with people that really can't " read " what they read. I can read something and just not understand it because I have a " slow brain " or in other words because I'm stupid. I posted several times in other analog roockie threads where they have not any idea of analog but understand what experienced people posted and his questions and answers they gives are inteligent questions/answers, they have common sense. Unfortunatelly this is not the case with this analog roockie that every single post repeat and repeat the " same " with out understand what other people said. He posted question after question with the same wrong topic and when some one ask him something he just does not answered, dead silence almost as his brain. He gave no answer to this posted question: """ I think that before you ask what you posted there you have to ask your self: how good is the quality sound you are listening at your analog home system. Are you impressed? "" That dead silence tell me not only his ignorance levels but his stupidity level. My question to all of you: can you have a " decent " dialogue with a stupid person? with some one that maybe can't even remember his name? Maybe I'm to stupid trying to do it. Forums everywhere is a free place to make some kind of audio contribution that can help audiophiles and music lovers. Which is his real contribution here for any one ? Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS, R. Btw, @inna : """ For as long as we are talking analog not digital, it is fine "" Things are that today with out help of digital technologies you can't improve your analog experiences. |
You have manufacturers such as Benz Micro, Soundsmith, Koetsu, Clearaudio, Rega, Dynavector, etc, who make mid-to-high level cartridges ranging from $2K to as much as $15K (or more?). The sentiment I often come across online is that there is little or no difference between these products and vintage cartridges. Is that REALLY the case? If so, than what these manufacturers are engaged in is a scam, and those people online seem to know this through experience and I would do myself a huge disservice to dismiss them out of hand. Maybe I SHOULD send back my MoFi, find a Thorens, Garrard, Denon, etc, on eBay for next to nothing and have it restored for a few hundred. What do you guys think? Should I avoid the scam? If it isn't really the case, then it's just some people who have attached their ego to the gear that is attainable to them and so defend it out of emotional need and not because of the sound they produce. What do you guys think -- is "you get what you pay for" still in effect here? |
"It’s hard for me to take a recommendation seriously when they come from people who restore dumpster-rescue vintage turntables — it sounds like to me that they’re just protecting their emotional investment in ultra low-end sound." I'm really not sure what the relevance of your statement is, as it has no bearing on the topic at hand. I restore, modify and hot rod older tables, or any table for that matter. My favorite to work on is a Thorens TD 150. There is just so much greatness that can come out of this table. I have also worked on VPI, AR, Pioneer and many others. It has given me many hours of joy and understanding of what qualities makes a table work well. And, in reality, there is not much difference in tables built 10-20-30 or 40 years ago to tables built today. I also have, and have had, many newer tables in and out of my home. I usually run two tables. Further, I have also advocated that more money wisely spent can also lead to better sound. So what is your point regarding your above statement anyway? |
Next time you find an SP10 Mk3 in a dumpster, call me immediately and I will have it removed to a safe place in my house, at no cost to anyone. No, it is not anyone's contention that "all modern engineering techniques and materials have little to no value to turntable/cartridge performance". But SOME vintage equipment certainly CAN match up to and exceed that of SOME modern gear. Seems to me that you are the one who is brim full of assumptions. |
It’s hard for me to take a recommendation seriously when they come from people who restore dumpster-rescue vintage turntables — it sounds like to me that they’re just protecting their emotional investment in ultra low-end sound. However, I’ll admit that is just a bias on my part that may not have any value when talking about turntables and cartridges. Is the contention that all the modern engineering techniques and materials have little or no value to turntable / cartridge performance so therefore vintage equipment can still match up to modern gear? |
Madavid: Why is this discussion that you promote so focused on the dollar amounts of things? A system is a combination of many independent variables; the number of possible systems and component combinations and room set ups and human ears is an astronomically large number. It’s the "no matter what I do" sentiment you express that is problematic. And you certainly don’t need $200K of equipment to have lasting enjoyment from a well designed system. Your $1K turntable might, or might not, benefit from a $2K cartridge, depending on several factors and independent variables. The point is to try and make educated decisions, listen to a variety of table-arm-cartridge combinations (not always easy to do), read reviews both from owners and the pros. I don't know why you chose the MoFI rig. I conclude it must have been what you wanted at that moment, in that place. What exactly are you trying to achieve in the analog realm? I’m not sure you have been able to determine that yet. I run a preowned Technics SL1200mkll that I paid $300 for and that I restored with a NOS arm and new lights outfitted with a vintage Shure V15 type IV that I paid $200 for with an after market replacement microridge stylus through tube pre and power amps into full range speakers. I have a few other new and vintage cartridges, none that I paid more than $600 for, and they sound very satisfying to my ears. It’s not always about how much one has to spend to achieve high performance, but sometimes it is, and sometimes one can assemble a reasonably priced system that reveals all the detail one could ever want and kick butt at the same time. To me, it’s a journey, not a destination. There are no absolutes. This interest in music reproduction is not a scam. The manufacturers I own components from, I believe, truly care about the quality of the components they make and have a passion for the science and art of good design and execution because they truly like music and the means to play recorded music. Sure they want to make a profit; sure I want them to be profitable so that they perpetuate the industry we all support. Some even aim to make these devices at price points that are affordable and are of high quality. These particular facets of value and performance for a given price point are not a scam in any way, shape or form. Megabuck tables, arms and cartridges can and do sound absolutely amazing, they're just not for me. I applaud those who can afford and enjoy such rigs. Michael Fremer is one. I learn from him and feel he is an asset to analog fans. I know nothing about MoFi tables and cartridges, but assume the rigs you bought must have sounded good enough to your ears to be what you wanted. I wouldn’t pursue a $2K cartridge, it’s not my thing. If I were you I would stop obsessing about that $2K cartridge and explore the fun and fascinating world of sub $1K carts, both vintage and new. |
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19lbs or 23 lbs for a tt is nothing. Mine weighs 150 lbs and I’ve seen and heard a few that are much heavier. i wouldn’t put a lot of your stress on weight of a tt, it’s the whole package. I have friends that put $3-5k cartridges on tonearms and it just doesn’t work out. If you go out to vinyl asylum and check out the analog database on tonearm and cartridge specs, you will see which cartridges will match up with which tonearms. I know that soundsmith does a lot of their testing with vpi gear for example, but that doesn’t mean that their $8k cartridge will work fine with the vpi gimbal arm either. 1 more thing, years ago I used a grado sonata cartridge on a music hall mmf7 I think tt and I couldn’t get rid of the hum. Went to another tt and the hum went away |
@madavid0 Properly matched does not mean matched to equally expensive gear, but to technically compatible gear. You have to look for compliance, mass, impedance, gain... that’s all. Provided that the well regarded $2-3k cart is a good match (technically speaking, not financially) to the rest of your analog rig, you will definitely hear a lot of improvement. If it´s not, it may not sound any better than what you currently have. hope this helps... |
This is six of the Titles for the OP's threads initiated. "Basis Turntables : Worth it Rip Off" "Class D = Trash?" "Rega and ProAc : Bad?" "Anticables : Scam" "Synergestic Research: Scam" "Cartridges : Complete Scam? I'm with @stevecham , on this thread , and the others above.............. It would be difficult to not believe an agenda and pattern exists.... |
OP- If you are really serious, then the answer is that in most cases, a $1K table and a $500 phono stage will not get the most out of a $2K cart. And it certainly will not be plug-n-play. Unless you have a dealer with good analog set-up skills (a rarity, these days) you will need a good protractor for alignment and a scale for setting VTF. Maybe a good microscope for getting VTA and azimuth right. Can't find a $300/$500 battery phono stage on MD's web site, so no idea if it has variable loading or whether the gain would be adequate for a LO MC cart. If you are going MM or MI, $2K is very near top of line. Of course, the show demo you heard may (or may not) have benefited from very careful system matching and expert set-up. As someone said, LP playback requires a properly matched "system" where each piece needs to be selected with consideration for upstream and downstream components. |
I will give you an example and maybe this will become more clear to you. I had a Basis 2000 turntable with a Basis branded Rega tonearm and a Shelter 901 cartridge. I changed from the Rega (inexpensive) tonearm to a Basis Vector (expensive) tonearm and the difference was significant and noticeable particularly the imaging. Clearly the Rega tonearm was not allowing the Shelter cartridge to perform at its best. So an expensive cartridge may sound better than an inexpensive cartridge, even on a substandard turntable/tonearm combination, but it will not be able to perform at its best. FWIW I think using the words SUCKER and SCAM when you write leads to nothing positive when you are asking others to help you with information or explain something to you. |
"Which is better, a Pass or an Onkyo?" The Pass is better. Not, it's better if its paired with Pass pre-amp. Not, depends on your definition of use-value. That MoFi system at Capital Audiofest sounded really good. That was a $2k table + cartridge combo using their $250 phono stage....running into TAD electronics and Evolution Ones...gear that probably costs well north of $100k. I guess stereo "system" "balance" only works in one direction! So, what are we looking at here...could it be that MoFi unintentionally exposed the SCAM behind the cartridge industry by pairing a $2k turntable and cartridge + $250 phono with high-end components which ended up producing a high-end sound -- among the best of the show? Does that mean you're a SUCKER if you pay more than $500 (the non-bundled cost of the MoFi Ultra Tracker) on a cartridge? Or does it mean that this 23 lbs turntable and tonearm are the greatest value in vinyl history, and that it could have achieved stunning audio with an upgraded cart and phono stage? So, once again. I have this MDF 19 lbs turntable. It's an AC motor belt-drive that uses a Derlin platter and pulley. It's got a 35g aluminum tonearm. It's running into a $500 ($300 special from Music Direct) battery-powered phono stage. The large consensus on this forum is that installing a $2-3k cartridge will yield no or negative benefit. So let's assume I'm not going "balance" my system by installing $200k worth of speakers, amps, cables and pres. How much do I have to spend on an arm, table and phono stage to mine the true benefit out of a well-regarded $2-3k cartridge? Since I have no idea if the MoFi arm can be replaced, should I just return the unit right now -- that no matter what I do, a $1k turntable won't benefit from a $2k cartridge? |
Well this is a remarkable thread. I rarely agree with Raul :-) but this time he's hit it on the head. The OP doesn't seem to understand that we call it a "stereo SYSTEM" for a reason, and the most important component is himself - his ears, brain, and capacity to process information and learn as he goes (i.e. the linkage between the first two). If you want to gain real understanding, and maybe 'hearing' too, you have to work for it! and it's fun! And then there's a discussion about classical theories of commodity value. My only comment there is that "use" and "exchange" value were never seen as separate entities in themselves, but elements of a greater whole. So the relationship between them is always tricky, both for economists (some) and for the original poster. Certainly it's good to have a lot of skepticism in the pursuit of good audio, but patience counts too (oh yeah, and money). |
Hey guys, I´m not exactly new to analog, but I´m certainly a new kid on the block here at Audiogon. I would like to thank you all for your posts, this forum has been a valuable source of information (and entertainment) to me for the past couple years. On to the OP question: it is not a scam, but analog takes a lot of effort. We´re hardly talking plug and play stuff here and there´s a lot more into replacing a cart than there´s into replacing a DAC (or a cd-player for that matter). You may buy a cart that´s 10 times more expensive and get bad results if your tone-arm is not up to the task of handling the new cart. Things can also go very bad if your phono is not a good match to it. I have a love and hate relationship with analog, but that´s all part of the fun. Of course it is not a scam, much in the same way that power cords are not a scam. I don´t mean to be rude here, but I usually find that those kind of comments mostly come from people who are not willing to (or simply cannot) afford this kind of stuff. If everything else is working properly (tonearm and phono) with the new cart, the differences are instantly recognizable and not minimal. They´re quite addictive actually, but careful system matching is crucial and there are so many components in an analog rig that you can easily screw things up by replacing the cart (even for a much more expensive unit). |
it is the same all over audio and many industries, High performance comes at a price, but to get beyond that, the cost can be astronomical... You have a car that will run a 1/4 mile in 14 seconds, you drop $1000 in the engine and get it below 12 seconds, you need to drop another $3000 to get it below 10 seconds.... how much to make it even faster? The tweaking and expertise to get better performance in a phono cartridge is no different.... a 12 second 1/4 mile car is fast, but is it worth an extra $3000 to get a 10 second car? Of course the numbers are just arbitrary, but the concept remains true. So, no, its not a scam, but minor differences in performance are expensive. |
Why is it that more and more threads lately are opened with a pretty antagonistic header, what exactly does the op hope to accomplish with that besides a number of equally antagonistic responses or outright derision and the possibility of not being taken seriously at all. Now I know under current handle I have a low post count and join date of 2013 but aeons ago I was a member but lost all the info and just easier to start again. Back even 10 years ago the forums ( and the world in general) was a much more civilised and nicer place to be, just go skim through some older threads to see the type of discussion and the general level of decency and politeness involved. Nowadays I see way too much vitriol and a lot of self important people who come across as it all being about me, me, me, rather than actually wanting any real answers or even to hear partial truths. Just my 5 cents worth and my opinion only. |
The variety of definitions being applied to the word 'scam' amaze me. Upselling a product to someone who doesn't need it is not a scam. Expensive products that people willingly buy and work as described are not scams. Putting a high end component into a mess of system and saying it doesn't work does not count as a scam. A scam is knowingly deceiving someone either by getting them to pay for goods or services that they will not receive, or that are not, in good faith, what was agreed to or advertised. |
Price/value analysis can be a tricky thing. I have a friend who enjoys cognac, so I purchased a bottle of Hennesey Prestige for about $40 and it's fine. Later on, I thought I would try a bottle of Hennesey XO at $125 and that it would be worlds better. Tell the truth, for us it wasn't. Head to head, I don't think I could tell the difference or whether the XO was just different but not better. But I think it would be very ignorant of me to post publicly that XO is a scam because I couldn't taste the difference. The only thing I proved is that I couldn't taste the difference. And if I couldn't, I would wager that many people couldn't either. But I'm certainly open to the possibility that there are many who could. Maybe. |
Scam = selling a customer a $2000 cartridge for a $200 turntable, while knowing the the customer has 20 albums without much of a plan to increase said collection. Now selling the same 2k cartridge to a vinyl lover with a growing collection of albums and say a nice VPI TT, then that's a bargain. See, there are too many variables and budgets. If you have a pair of $1500 speakers, and you're happy with them, no plans of upgrading them, then a $400-500 cartridge might make better sense. Not an easy answer that can be answered with a simple yes or no that applies to all end users and situations. Makes sense to anyone? |
Some think the premise of this thread may be antagonistic given other threads started by the OP. That may be a tad unfair given that this is a forum, and he is asking a question relating to value. All said and done - what does he call value? Some believe a 'Ghetto Blaster' is the best thing in audio, and in terms of enjoyment one may find it hard to place a value. Putting things into 'relative perspective' over £2500 there are diminishing returns, likewise I believe that so called top flight cartridges are effectively different flavours so to speak. A good example is that the BenzLP is commonly regarded as an astonishing performer at around £2500 and it can compete against anything out there so to speak. But a £200MM ain't gonna cut the mustard against a top flight MC - (provided both given equal phono stages). What value you place on the price is anybody's guess - a Lada Riva and a Ferrari are worlds apart in terms of price - indeed a LAda Riva is more practical than a Ferrari - but what are you looking for??? An ice plough (cheap MM for cheap turntable - phono stage - system) - a fact car (MC race track - great TT - phono stage etc). Value is in essence what one would pay for anything - if you think something is not worth it - so be it - you are right - but what are your parameters? |
I would have to agree with others on this post was started by a rookie. The post started off strange and got worse by claiming that by using Magico speakers with a crappy amp the system would sound great just because of the speakers. Far from it! This poster needs to understand that 1 piece of the puzzle doesn't make the whole puzzle. You can't buy a $500 amp and use a pair of $50k Magico's and think the sound will be any good. It's called synergy! You can't throw darts at pieces of equipment and think they will sound sound as a whole. For example, you want to buy this $2k cartridge, does your phono preamp have the adjustability to make the cartridge perform? Does it have the appropriate gain needed? Do you need a head amp? Using your TT, IMO, you probably won't get better sound with a $5k cartridge. A better cartridge will need a much better tonearm, and a better tonearm will need a better TT. I moved up from the VPI JMW 9 tonearm to the $3k VPI 10.5 3D arm, which improved the SQ by quite a bit, and this was on my Hanns T-60 TT. There are big differences between cartridges: MC/MM/MI, vintage vs. new, etc... I remember using an Ortofon MC-20 back in 1978 which was a good cartridge back then. I bought a new MC-20 anniversary model 8 years, using a much better system than in 1978, and the MC-20 sounded pretty bad compared to the newer model cartridges. I sold it off pretty fast. There are diminishing returns in everything you buy in many different areas. But IMO, you have to get higher up in the audio equipment food chain before you can claim diminishing returns. |
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The ''classical economist'' (Smit, Ricardo,etc.) try to formulate ''theory of value'' by distinction between ''value in use'' and ''value in exchange''. Something like ''the real value'' and ''prices''. To illuminate the difference (the so called ''reduction of complexity'') they used examples like water and ear. Both have incredible ''value in use '' but no ''exchange value '' whatever. Both economist of course thought that UK represent the world. In the middle east the next war will be about water while China is more threaten by ear pollution then by NATO. Alas the theory of the ''real value'' was never ,uh, produced so the only alternative still is ''theory of prices'' expressed in money terms while there is no sensible theory of money at all. Nobody knows what the ''price'' of dollar or euro will be next year. In this thread everyone has his own theory of value with the same distinction but according to his own interpretation of the ''real value'' or ''value in use''. |
I have found that you can get good sound on the cheap, which is a good thing. I have also found that you can get great sound by spending more. However, I have found that not all good is cheap and not all great can be had with green. It takes work. Benz Micro is a good example. Each step up their chain gives you potentially more. I've been able to get up to their Ruby 3 series and it is the best cartridge I've owned and worth every penny. It is not unltra expensive but it is not cheap. On the other hand their ACE low out put is amazing sounding and might be all one needs. |
My approach is simple. I upgrade the cartridge last. For as long as I hear improvements while upgrading other elements of the chain I will not touch it. So, trust your hearing, be nice to your wallet and stay cool. When the time to upgrade comes, I will have a small problem because you can't buy them try them and return. Either I will do it with a few used ones or take my best guess with either new or used. Ideally I would want to upgrade arm, cartridge and phono at the same time, at least arm and cartridge. But if you have a Continuum with SAT tonearm and Ypsilon phono stage you better try just about anything regardless of price. A lot of work, but fun too. Poverty is not a sin but it sucks. |
Plus one for folkfreak. madavid0, you can think of cartridge - tonearm - table - phono pre matching like speaker driver - cabinet - crossover - amp matching. They are part of a system, and swapping pieces in and out willy nilly can be an exercise in frustration. You would probably never think about replacing the drivers in a pair of Magico’s with something that is speced differently and assume you could do better than the designer. Cartridge-arm matches are unfortunately a bit like that. Many people (myself included) have gone up a rung on the cartridge ladder only to learn their old cheaper cartridge was a better match to their tone arm and/phono pre. It doesn’t mean the more expensive cartridge is a “scam”, just not the right one for your rig. But when you get it right, it is pretty great. Missing this fundamental point can lead to asking the wrong questions in persuit of improved sound. |
According to this comparison exercise that compared sub-$1000 cartridges being played on a $1,500 VPI Traveller, the reference setup thrown in there as an ultra high-end control (almost $200k) came in SECOND to a Audio-Technica. And then there were all the people that voted for the really low end stuff. Guys, how on Earth does anyone explain this? https://www.analogplanet.com/content/nine-cartridges-compared-reviewed-and-voting-results |
Its very easy to get carried away by rave reviews of expensive cartridges. However, when you think about it, a cartridge is just doing one thing - its converting stylus movement into electrical signal. Therefore as far as I am concerned, tracking ability is paramount, it's everything. Yet the number of times cartridge reviews gloss over tracking performance.. As Randy-11 said earlier, there's definitely a law of diminishing returns at work here. The biggest step up is from conical to spherical stylus. After that you're on your own, though I do remember a ($250) Shure being commended for it's excellent tracking performance and electrical behaviour. As for other stylus profiles eg line contact, I don't know whether they offer any more. In my own experience a Nagoaka MP11 Boron was as good as it got. Swapping to a much more expensive cartridge (Linn K18) just made the sound thinner and brighter. So yeah, tracking first and foremost. |
Oh and to your question on why a $5K tonearm with a $5K cartridge. A $5K cartridge usually means the designer has spent extra effort in minimizing problematic resonances and other sources of distortion. Mounting this on a $1K tonearm that itself is subject to all sorts of distortions and resonances is simply throwing this benefit away. I could go on but that's just one small example of the constant in this hobby how a change in one component often throws up problems elsewhere in the chain |
My my Mr Madavid do you have it all wrong. Magico Q3s will sound absolutely awful paired with the sort of amp any normal person would use with your Elac bookshelves. In fact in 9 out of 10 Hi Fi shows Magico Q3s sound terrible because they get paired with the wrong sort of amps. Getting the most out of a set of Q3s is just like getting the most out of a cartridge -- it takes a lot of careful matching and time spent on ancillary supporting components. Simply dropping them in to your system may cause you great heartache (see this thread for what I mean https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/magico-s5-speaker-set-up-advice-please-tow-in-etc) And as you probably know, I run Q3s and what I really like is when people come to my system they often say "these speakers are great, they don't sound like Magicos [do at shows]" |
If someone asked you: "Would I see a major improvement in sound if I upgraded from my Elac bookshelves to a pair of Magico Q3s?" You would answer, absolutely yes you would. Not: "You have to pair them with ultra high end amps and sources." Not: "Some people can tell the difference but not everyone..." Not: "Wrong way of thinking..." It's very simple: Magicos are better than Elacs. The end. Anything other than that is just useless information that doesn't serve anyone. Magicos weigh 250 lbs, can you handle them, do you have the room for them, etc and so on -- useless info, anyone can read a spec sheet and understand the possible drawbacks. "You have to pair them with ultra high end equipment..." Why? Will they lose their superior performance capacity because they're hooked up to a more modest amp? Will the extreme engineering techniques used to eliminate resonance across the audio band turn itself off because they're running from a $5k amp as opposed to a $50k one? Will their unique drivers downgrade themselves? WHY, exactly, are you responding to a simple question with a qualifying non-answer? So. Can someone explain WHY a $1,000 table's tonearm can't be used to mount a $2-3k cartridge? What is the technical reason? Will it fail to transmits certain frequencies, or certain voltage swings, what exactly? Do cheaper tonearms not have the capability to hold the cartridge in the right angle and apply the right amount of tracking force? What's going on here? |
Why waste time with this guy ? he clearly has no relationship with a decent dealer who in an hour or so with his table could show him what a better cartridge could do in his system .... or not but then it would be solved for HIM going to be a rough planet if he never understands the joy acknowledging the law of diminishing returns and for a few hobbies like scotch, wine, fishing boats, flyrod, etc living past the break point. imagine a consumer reports world where nobody buys a Porsche Turbo |
Wow guys...wow. Allow me to sum up your replies: ________________________ czarivey: it's NOT scam. Scam is just a label, but in reality it's clearly YOUR choice to buy cartridge for $10k or for $250 and there are tons of sleepers in that range that will make you think HARD before going any further to upgrade. That is to say that my AudioTechnica AT140 is one of them along with ADC type III obviously if you have original stylus on them. Many people know only expensive ones therefore going for them, but why should I care when I can have more cheaper 'supply' and let everyone else buy higher priced one? Ignorance sometimes pretty healthy and beneficial ain't that? |
jperry nailed it. The OP clearly gets more enjoyment from trying to prove that audiophiles are relentlessly scammed as they shell out big bucks for questionable returns in sonic improvement than he derives from listening and enjoying music himself. He obviously believes that most here are victims of the industry, getting fleeced on a regular basis. Herein lies his true hobby and source of pleasure....all thinly veiled as a question from a fellow lover of music, faithfully reproduced ;-) |
