Cartridges: Complete Scam?

I’m amused by the rush-to-judgment-into-the-red-zone-sky-is-falling sentiment of the title of this thread. Why do you call it a Complete Scam instead of asking an intelligent question? Is it to attract readers who will respond?

This is a phishing exepdition that doesn’t deserve educated comment from readers who know about, and have experience with a variety of cartridges, including their relative value at certain price points, regardless of type and build. I’m not biting and I have a TON of experience here. I choose to save my input for a more enlightened and deserving poster.

Madavid: the whole audio industry is one giant rip-off so please, please stay far away and take up another pastime.

Are any of us getting as tired of the abject cynicism reflected in our time as I am?

Madavid: Why is this discussion that you promote so focused on the dollar amounts of things? A system is a combination of many independent variables; the number of possible systems and component combinations and room set ups and human ears is an astronomically large number. It’s the "no matter what I do" sentiment you express that is problematic. And you certainly don’t need $200K of equipment to have lasting enjoyment from a well designed system.

Your $1K turntable might, or might not, benefit from a $2K cartridge, depending on several factors and independent variables. The point is to try and make educated decisions, listen to a variety of table-arm-cartridge combinations (not always easy to do), read reviews both from owners and the pros. I don't know why you chose the MoFI rig. I conclude it must have been what you wanted at that moment, in that place.

What exactly are you trying to achieve in the analog realm? I’m not sure you have been able to determine that yet.

I run a preowned Technics SL1200mkll that I paid $300 for and that I restored with a NOS arm and new lights outfitted with a vintage Shure V15 type IV that I paid $200 for with an after market replacement microridge stylus through tube pre and power amps into full range speakers. I have a few other new and vintage cartridges, none that I paid more than $600 for, and they sound very satisfying to my ears. It’s not always about how much one has to spend to achieve high performance, but sometimes it is, and sometimes one can assemble a reasonably priced system that reveals all the detail one could ever want and kick butt at the same time. To me, it’s a journey, not a destination. There are no absolutes. This interest in music reproduction is not a scam. The manufacturers I own components from, I believe, truly care about the quality of the components they make and have a passion for the science and art of good design and execution because they truly like music and the means to play recorded music. Sure they want to make a profit; sure I want them to be profitable so that they perpetuate the industry we all support. Some even aim to make these devices at price points that are affordable and are of high quality. These particular facets of value and performance for a given price point are not a scam in any way, shape or form.

Megabuck tables, arms and cartridges can and do sound absolutely amazing, they're just not for me. I applaud those who can afford and enjoy such rigs. Michael Fremer is one. I learn from him and feel he is an asset to analog fans.

I know nothing about MoFi tables and cartridges, but assume the rigs you bought must have sounded good enough to your ears to be what you wanted. I wouldn’t pursue a $2K cartridge, it’s not my thing. If I were you I would stop obsessing about that $2K cartridge and explore the fun and fascinating world of sub $1K carts, both vintage and new.

or a mass debater

""Whether", not "wether". Unless there's a change in the weather."
Thank you lewm!

"It's getting snowing in here."
Thank you chakster!

Oh the weather outside is frightful,
But the fire is so delightful,
And since we've no place to go,
Let It Snow! Let It Snow! Let It Snow!

"Will more expensive cartridges lead to better sound?"

Maybe yes.

Maybe no.

Has your head exploded yet?

Exactly Todd, case in point:

(All carts set up on my table with MINT LP BEST PROTRACTOR and a digital VTF scale accurate to 3 significant figures.)

I have an Ortofon Black ~$600 and a $200 Nagaoka 150. Both are great sounding cartridges, I prefer the Nagoaka.

I have a vintage Shure V15-IV I $300 and the $200 Nagaoka. Both are great and I prefer the Shure.

I have in storage for a couple of years now a VPI Aries Black Knight/JMW 10.5 arm and a couple of Lyra Delos carts. I don’t recall what I paid for all of them new about ten years ago but let’s say ~$6500.

Does that rig sound good? Heck yeah.

Am I happier and have more fun with my dumpster dive Technics table and old fart Shures, Nagaokas, Grados, Ortofons, Stantons, Pickerings and ATs, some new, some vintage? Heck yeah.

It’s not always about $$$ and it’s NOT A SCAM!

I said I wouldn’t get sucked into this but I fell for it nonetheless.

Go figure.

@thehorn: breathing just fine, thank you!

I also notice that we share some common choices in our MM collection.

I’ve learned something important about the title of this thread: include the word Scam and, focused only on the the ball with pentagons and hexagons, we all become first grade soccer players.

Next time I want attention I’ll just yell out "SCAM"

And yes madavid, you have absolutely no clue how good a properly set up cartridge from the 70s and 80s, using all those tools that make a difference and that you cynically besmirch, can sound. And I can tell you are a newbie to vinyl and equipment because you dismiss anything that isn't the newest, greatest and most expensive.  Exactly why the heck are you listening to stone age vinyl in 2017 for Jupiter's sake?

"For the OP and because what I’m telling here the best option is the MINTLP protractor that is dedicated/custom made for its analog rig and that have all the advantages you name it for a hundred buks."

IMO Raul nailed it direcly on the head. I was using a dB protractor for years and decided, based on many positive reviews of the MINT, to order one custom made for my SL1200II. Readjusting every cartridge about 2-3 mm back in the headshell, relative to where they had been previously with the dB, resulted in a MAJOR improvement in focus and coherency. To me, the device is indispensable for accurate and easy, quick overhang and alignment adjustment. WELL worth the $100 or so bux I paid for it. No scam here.

Inna: hahahahahahahahaha, "you cartridge guys," you're killing me.

Viridian: interesting idea, and budget worthy too, but, something must be wrong because none of my catridges has sucked my blood, at least yet.

Madavid: You should have all the answers to your important questions by now and can make informed and rational decisions regarding vinyl playback, and, you're welcome.

Everyone else: KUDOS!