Not having tried the Cardas GR IC, I don't know if I can draw a connection by having tried the Cardas IC's speaker cables. On my system the SCs were "Too warm, unclear midrange, dark and etc.," as well. What's more dielectric bleed into the signal wire, sounding like Alca Seltzer in water, was very audible. |
Try Anti-Cables...way cheaper and way better |
I updated/upgraded my system sometime time ago. New McIntosh amps, preamp, digital and speakers. At the time and for a long time I used all Cardas Golden Reference and my experince was too much of a good thing. The system became dark, slow, and uninvolving. I love Cardas and have had much success with them but the GR didn`t cut it this time. I thought of going to the Cardas Neutral Reference which is the least sounding Cardas. Its very well Neutral and open yet had some body with smooth mids and highs. being a cable nut I still had some of my Kimber Select and moved them into the system. Well guess what happened, everything fell into place. Ended up selling all my GR and upgrading my Kimber Select to the new versions and couldn`t be happier. However, I do use the Cardas GR power cords on my line conditioners. I have not heard the new Clear and Clear Beyond but I do know they are expensive even more than the Golden Reference. Try the Kimber Select you might be surprised.
Happy Listening |
I think that with everything, matching is important. GR is a great product and many swear by it. In my tube set-up though, I preferred TG Audio over GR and also Audience.
Obviously, YMMV. Buy a pair or two of used GR, you should be able to sell them for around what you paid if you do not like them.
"M" |
Listen with your own ears. Cardas makes very fine sounding cables, which have satisfied many listeners, including myself. I currently own and enjoy their Golden Reference tonearm cable very much. I sold the GR interconnect, which I replaced with another make for attaining a better synergy, but if I had to, I could live very easily with the Cardas GR ic. I cared least, however, for the influence on my system's sound when I added the GR speaker cable. All of which brings us back to my opening sentence. Good luck, but please don't reject Cardas based on displeased comments only. There are an awful lot of very satisfied Cardas customers out there, and I can understand why. |
I just switched(after auditioning) to GR between CD and preamp and couldn't be happier. Between amp and preamp I'm using balanced Wireworld Eclipse 5 and having tried many other cables, this combination seems to bring out the best in my Atma-Sphere MP1 and MA-1s.
I've never found using the same brand of cables in all positions to work. |
Don't have your amp, but use Garbriel Gold with my Rogue and don't have any of the issues you mention - sound is clear and musical across the range |
This is all about synergy. I've had many high and low priced cables in my system over the years. The GR's are just a nice all around cable, don't do anything exciting, just plain musical. Other cables do certain things better, the GRs are consistently musical.
I suspect there has been more GR cable sold than any other cable in audio, this should tell you something. And then, there is a chance they may not be synergistic in your system, very easy to sell and break even, no brainer. |
I don't think it is a matter of a tube amp being overly warm. This is based on an old preconception of what tube amps are - these days in any event. They are to my ears much more likely to be overly bright and as my old friend Joe calls it they sparkle.
In truth like all things there is a spectrum of warmth and coloration amongst tube amps as well as solid state amps.
I fairly certain that if you are 35 or older that you have heard a warm SS amp.
Harken back to the SS days of the old Japanese Luxman, they were warmer than warm, hot by that measure. How about the current sound of Accuphase, is that stone cold nuetrality? To me they are warm, even as far as a highly pronounced warmth and charge real big money for the priveledge of hearing that style. I am fairly certain they do not have a tubed product in their history since Kensonic to today.
I am utterly sincere when I tell you that some tube products a super quick almost analytical and tend to shine.(for one, someone mentioned Atmasphere) Although the real value peculiar to tubes alone when well implemented is the incredible layering of the music. The kind of staging a good tube amp can give you is unmatched intruiging and very involving.
Why do I say this? Because I paid what I consider a big chunk of change for Golden reference or whatever the top Gold Cardas was 5 years back, used yet, to offset the sterility of my SS monoblocks. It worked out well but even moreso after I bought tube power amps. I used it between the pre and power in both situations and I still use those Golden --- by Cardas and I am loving it more than ever.
I can assure as the owner of 3 vintage tube amps that you can't begin to compare how tubed amps sounded in the golden age of HiFi, circa 1955-1965, that is BTW also what I mean by vintage, not 1985. Versus a modern tube amp circa 2009. I wish you could take a really well designed, well liked, 1962 Scott, Fisher or in my case a Sherwood amp. or real theatre amps at the advent of modern audio, not stereo that had to wait until the golden age.
I mean the first widespread use of the early 300B amps Western Electric being the archetype. You will point to the amp and say. Don't you hear what I hear they are soupy, slow, dark, rolled off etc. I will then tell you, yes I agree it is true. I will ask you listen to Dehaviland, Rogue, Jadis, Wavac, ARC, Manley,some C**ese amps etc,just not Conrad Johnson. I ask you, do they sound the same as the older amps? IMHO, No not all. Do they even sound like each other ? No not really. I prefer to keep it real. |
Thanks guys for your precious comments on this. It look likes all cables have their own characters. Whether they are good of bad depend on system synergy regardless of SS or Tube gears, personal sonic preference, and prices comparison.
I actually want to compare, Kimber Select 1030, AZ Silver reference. I have already got Nordost SPM and Frey. I should be able to get a decent 2nd hand pair of those to try, and sell them out if dislike. Will let you know the results.
Basically my systems are :
Hovland HP100 Pre
AS Hurricanes Power
Rega Saturn CD
Nottingham TT
Nordost Tyr SC
Nordost Frey and SPM RCA thru out.
|
current production cardas cables, or any other brand are unlikely to be considered warm, based upon the definition of warmth, as colored, subtractively in the treble, and colored additively in the upper bass/lower midrange.
such cables would be criticized by reviewers and unacceptable to most audiophiles.
most products are designed to be minimally colored.
accuracy or neutrality is a ubiquitous objective in the high-end industry.
i believe it is necessary to look for "warmth" among products in production over 20 years ago.
perhaps cardas hexlink, purist audio proteus and purist audio colossus could be considered warm. |
I have Cardas Golden Reference IC, and Golden Cross IC between my CDP, conrad-johnson CT6 preamp (6922 tubes), and MV60 amp (EL34, 6SN7GTA, 12AX7A tubes). Also have Cardas Cross speaker cables (borrowed).
GC IC is relatively new so it maybe still breaking in. Not sure if that is a factor, however, when I put it between CDP and preamp, overall music sounded less dynamic.
Appreciate much if someone can recommend speaker cable for my Quad 988. Cardas Cross currently sounds fine. Just not sure what cable would make it better... |
I used to have Cardas Cross speaker cables. They are decent for the money but believe it or not Audience Maestro's worked better. They are about 85-90% of the Au-24's. The sound opened up quite a bit once they were in. The Maestro's are even cheaper. |
No problem for me, I am using Cardas Clear 2m RCA for my CJ Act2 + Lp140. Excellent result, never dark or slow, very dynamice, great body with air and most important, very muscial. |
I just recently upgraded from Cardas Golden Reference (GR) to the Cardas Clear interconnect and speaker cables. I selected the GR after owning and auditioning a variety of cables including MIT Oracle v1.1, Shunyata, Nordost, SilverSmith, etc. In my opinion, the GR did the most things right and the least things wrong. They were most musical, tonally accurate and full bodied cables, but not the last word in resolution and detail.
The Cardas Clear are in a completely different league than the GR. They deliver everything the GR does, but they strip away a huge amount of veiling. Soundstage depth is dramatically increased and even the most subtle ambient cues are rendered with absolute clarity. I strongly encourage anyone shopping for new cables to audition them. They are really quite amazing. |
i tried hard to like the Cardas GR xlr's, but couldn't. in fact...i tried twice. just finished my second trial and came to the conclusion that they just aren't for me (or my system). tried them on my cdp and SAT radio hook-up.
i don't use tubes but my experience was similar to what some others have stated about the GR's. in a single word...."vailed" is what i came up. they sounded aweful at first but once broken in...sounded much better. still not good enough to end my search though.
i did like and currently use the cardas cross on my SAT radio hook-up . seem much more "open" and musical imo.
in the process of trying the acoustic zen silver ref II's right now. can tell i like these better already but still need to wait and see how they settle in.
i'm sure Cardas makes an outstanding cable. but as many veterans have pointed out....they are not for everyone and/or every system. |
The Cardas Clear are in a completely different league than the GR. They deliver everything the GR does, but they strip away a huge amount of veiling. Soundstage depth is dramatically increased and even the most subtle ambient cues are rendered with absolute clarity. I strongly encourage anyone shopping for new cables to audition them. They are really quite amazing. I quite agree with you, high definition, warmth & musicality at the same time time, but speaker cables (bi-wiring) too expensive, not in relation with the single wiring. |
Cardas is often a tough call. I have used a variety of their older lines and still tend to use Cardas Golden Ref fairly often.
The bottom line for me often is this:
- Objectively, I will sit there and think that the other cable (the non-Cardas) has more detail in the treble, for example, and so my analytic brain will choose the other brand.
- But when I just want to kick back and enjoy the music, ah, Cardas often wins hands down. It makes me wonder whether the extra detail in the non-Cardas cable is actually an exaggeration.
To my ear, live concerts generally sound more like the house sound that Cardas offers than the sound some other cables offer that my analytical brain tries to convince me is more accurate.
Go figure.
Art |
I recently heard a system with all Cardas Clear. This was at a dealer playing Wilson Alexandrias driven by VTL electronics.
It had the characteristic Cardas sound, i.e., warm, slow and lacking excitement. I'm sure system synergy plays a role but the cables were not doing this dealer any favors. Try the WyWires Hot Sauce which is designed for warm tube amps. |
I'm using Cardas GR IC's's and Golden Cross speaker cable's with a Art Audio Signature SET and Joule Electra LA-300ME....
I had a musician friend of mine comment after hearing a new recording of some Beethoven piano music,that he thought it sounded very much like a performance he heard recently at Carnegie Hall!
(could be the good food and bourbon talking)
So it seems the combination of Cardas and tubes seems to be working for me...just fine. |
