It has been said that if you want to tell time, buy a Timex. If you want a family heirloom that your great great great grand kids will wear, buy a Rolex.
Can someone explain to me why : Accupahse Equipment is that expensive ?
…….I was recently looking into their Power Conditioners as well as their Amplifiers and for a company where there is very little reviews done on their products, along with a small ( here in the US anyway ) almost a cult following if someone could tell me why is their prices the way they are. I just don't understand it. I have listened to their equipment and is nice and the build quality is very good but ; I always said to myself ; '' Not for that price ". I do not mean to be in an any way inflammatory with this statement but is : Accuphase the McIntosh of the East ? McIntosh makes some nice stuff but is no way priced like Accuphase, however it seems to operate very much with the same business model ; you are paying for the name and the pride of ownership and the sound is very much dated. Maybe I am missing something here and the sound is very good and like Rolex you buy a piece and you are set for a lifetime. FM Acoustics is also another one of the those companies......Just looking for a really good amp and these companies come up in my search but I am just sitting here scratching my head ?
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I think cars make a better analogy than watches. Some quality gear costs more than other equally as good gear does because people just decided they will pay more. Its somewhat rare but common enough to keep it in the conversation so prices stay up. You mentioned looking at other quality amps.....Not looking at Canadian (Bryston) is like saying you would not look at a German auto when looking for a quality vehicle. Bryston has the sound. The build quality. The support a 20 year warranty and $ retention. |
It’s the perfect storm.... 1) Accuphase gear is of exceptional quality. 2) Accuphase components are exquisitely beautiful. 3) While the Accuphase catalog is deep, they are rare. 4) Employees of Accuphase are highly paid. 5) The usual markups throughout the supply chain. I spent a lot less on a near mint Accuphase E-470 than what a new would have cost, but a LOT more than I could have spent on gear that would have undoubtedly sounded great in my system. But whenever I get home from work and begin to listen to music, my eyes are always drawn to the best hi-fi component that I have ever owned. If I ever have the means, I will upgrade to their top tier. |
......thank you again and the post is not about what amp you think I should have as I can make that decision. Personally, Bryston makes nice gear and McIntosh has nice meters and a very nice personally blue front.....but those amps are not what I am looking for and the post is about how Acuupahse is marketed here and even though its really nice equipment. There are a lot of hands in the pot in the distribution line that makes the product's price inflated and expensive here in the US. However, there is one point that keeps coming through is that all those who do own Accupahse, really like Accuphase and that it makes nice music. That to me is what it is all about ….two each their own and enjoy the music. I will look more into purchasing an amp of theirs. |
Accuphase is a classy company! They've got their own following and if your part of it your treated like family. I can understand why you are considering them. When I did my TuneLand showroom last year (a HEA year long experience) Accuphase was one of the lines I featured. I spent a good many nights enjoying the Accuphase sound and style. I also agree that your topic has been about Accuphase specifically and not sure why others are trying to talk about other products as comparisons. Accuphase is Accuphase, it has it's own style, performance and pride of ownership. Comparing them to other companies doesn't quite make sense to me. Lastly, if your thinking of making a purchase you should add Sound Consultant to your list of dealers. http://www.soundconsultant.com/ |
In the early80's or perhaps even late 70's, the audio store I worked in was one of the first Accuphase dealers. At the time, they were manufactured by Kensonic Labs which was an offshoot of Kenwood Electronics (Trio Electronics in other country's). They were quite industrial looking back then and I kick myself for not purchasing them at 50% off of retail. I remember selling the E202 Integrated, a 150wpc power amp, a big preamp and a Tuner. |
@uberwaltz...…………………… I agree with going used. I replaced almost all of my 2 systems with McIntosh which I bought used. I could never have afforded them brand new. I dropped over 18K on McIntosh and had I bought them new it would have been over 40K. To tell you the truth, they do all look new as Audio Classics does a great job with them. |
It’s policy from Accuphase Japan and distributors are bound by it. Why buy Accuphase? I spent 3 years auditioning amps to match my Martin Logan Summit X’s. After listening to 20 minutes of Accuphase class A integrated magic I bought it. 3 years later I have no regrets. Saw a review of my amp where they measured it clipping at _double_ the rated output. It’s specs are rated (both channels driven) down to one ohm. It doesn’t have the resolution of Esoteric or PS Audio, but I never tire of listening to it. Those are the reasons you buy Accuphase. |
@roxy54...…………………………… Experts or not, after 50 years in this hobby, nothing has drawn me in closer to the music than McIntosh. There is a rightness to the sound that I didn't get with other comparatively priced equipment.. For the first time in years, I look forward to listening to my 2 systems and I am now buying new music again. There is also a pride of ownership with the McIntosh that is hard to describe. |
From reading this post it seems like it comes down to name brand acceptance and recognition. The reason for the other comparisons to watches and cars is due to the fact that the underlying reason for the pricing of anything is to get as much as the market will bear. Market exploitation AKA greed. Accuphase as others know that their market demographic, especially in the US, will pay top dollar to belong to their club. So either you are apart of the club and will pay for entry or not. They know that achieving that goal is far more important to their constituents than actually achieving audio nirvana. Accuphase does make a very good product with the highest quality of parts for sure. But it is not going to take an audiophile to the brink of solving the ever elusive problem of sound replication. There are several other smaller, US companies that push that envelope for far less. However for this particular discussion there is no interest in that aspect. In fact the only other comparable brands offered in this discussion seem to be obligatory big name drops - which are bundled by Hedge fund investors. Just like Rolex does't keep time better than any other time piece, Tiffany's Diamonds are far short from the best quality,and Mercedes Benz is not the fastest car. They all serve a common purpose which is to say that even though they are not the absolute best they achieve the goal of representing a status for their constituents to fulfill their expectations on what others may think of them. |
'' Accuphase does make a very good product with the highest quality of parts for sure. But it is not going to take an audiophile to the brink of solving the ever elusive problem of sound replication. '' ….and you know this for a fact ? Subjective comment and what actually is ; audio nirvana ? I am / was looking for a more factual comment on price vs performance from actual owners of Accuphase equipment which some have commented her and have helped me. Sure all '' cars '' can take you to from point A to point B - that is a fact , but there is difference in that drive if you are in a Ford Pinto vs and Austin Martin. Just sayin ….
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Garebear: I can’t add to what appear to be good answers to your question of why does Accuphase gear cost so much, but if you are willing to buy vintage gear, you can get good deals if you are patient. Billshenefelt: I have a C-200, and find them attractive and build quality excellent, if impressively unusual for the time (has board cards that plug into slots like a computer, and a robust chassis). I love the sound and performance, however, they are prone to specific problems, and some parts are no longer available. One of the common problems is corrosion of some of the transistor cans on one or more of the boards; I suspect that was from an adhesive or threadlock they used that became corrosive with age and/or heat. If yours aren’t too badly corroded, and all the parts are present and intact, it certainly is worth having recapped. Friday evening I replaced the power supply and larger filter electrolytics, and put it back in service while I wait for a few more caps for the boards. After some break-in all day Saturday, the sound is even better than it was before (it had original caps, but the previous owner used the preamp regularly, and the caps were high quality so did not leak from the can, but some did drift and had high current leakage). If current Accuphase gear is engineered and built as well as the vintage units, I can understand how prices are high, though high markup here in the U.S. may make it a poor value. |
So here is some boring reality of the audio business - Accuphase was a subsidiary of Kenwood for many years. So Kenwood and Accuphase would share several of the same parts and designs. After moving in different marketing directions Accuphase ended up in a partnership with a company called Trio. Trio eventually was taken over by JVC who is now in a partnership with Kenwood. Kenwood always had a stronger US market presence so its unlikely that they would compete against themselves. Now known as JVCKenwood, the company is moving out of the consumer market and moving towards telecommunications and aero space. Accuphase is still making equipment but does not benefit from the same partnerships it previously had to source top quality parts. Other audio companies that have had issues with Hedges and Big company shake ups are, McIntosh, Sonus Faber, Krell, Pass, Wadia Audio Research and REL to name a few. By the way The Pinto and Aston Martin were both produced by Ford. The Pinto was discontinued several years ago and the Martin was sold to a hedge based in Kuwait. |
...thank you for the post Mr GGC and I did know that hence the reference. I do not believe they are associated now. I have read about the Hedges ...and I think you can throw B&W as well as Classe' in that group as well. However, something can be said about the perpetuation of the company as Thiel sadly found out. |
garebear, Huh, from what I heard about Ford Pinto, I conclude that, to take it from New York to Florida, you were a reckless risk-taker in the 70s. It has nothing to do with Accuphase, but you mentioned Austin Martin. I think you wanted to say Aston Martin although there used to be a British car brand Austin, too. I would say they were around about the time you drove Pinto. I think Pinto was discontinued in 1980s or so. |
Pretty much nailed it--they are uniformly extraordinary offerings (particularly the recent and current gear) and priced accordingly. The only issue is the dealer markup in the USA which is indeed exorbitant. oranfoster It’s the perfect storm.... |
I will share a story that I had while I was searching for my new power amplifier to buy. This happened about 3 weeks ago. I wanted Accuphase E-800 but cost is $21,000 USD. I call my local store that sells Accuphase (just 10 minutes from me, PlanetofSound, they appear to be a subsidiary of parent company of the North American distributor, should this be illegal, I don’t know) and I ask them for pricing on E-800, ask if perhaps they had a demo unit that I could buy and if they would help with financing. Yes, Accuphase so expensive I could not seriously consider without borrowing a portion of the amp cost, besides if I pay back in 12 months no interest so it seemed like a good idea. Anyway. Dealer was rude. Requested I come to store to discuss price. Since I am so close I did. When I got there he still would not give me a straight answer about price of the E-800 and I had to coax the answer out of him with much difficulty: CAD $28,000. Obviously I expected this, since price of E-800 is $21,000 USD which is equal to $28,000 Canadian dollar. So I ask him if I were prepared to pay 2/3 up front as a non-fee payment, with the rest payable on arrival or when I qualified for the financing, would he be prepared to give me a 20 percent discount. He said no. He would not give me any discount at all not even if I paid cash. I knew from the minute I walked into the store that he had no interest in making a sale with me. When I walked in he was not even busy, talking to a fellow employee and he asked me to wait as he was helping a customer setup his cart on his turntable. Someone was already helping that customer, I observed them simply talking and ignoring me... very frustrating service. But okay. What I couldn’t accept was the fact he wouldn’t budge on ANY sort of discount. I can’t believe this. I’ve yet to contact the distributor but I have a feeling he won’t be sympathetic to my plight. I have a strong suspicion that the owner of the distributor for the company is content to have far fewer units sold at higher prices. He does not care about making less money due to this pricing strategy. I highly suspect management at Accuphase is also content in letting this happen. Maybe fact, they probably laugh at us North Americans paying these prices. Price of an E-800 in Japan brand new, from the dealer is ¥980,000. That is just a hair over $9000 USD. Instead, Audio Alliance sees fit to charge $21,000 Does this sound fair to you? |
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d2girls I call my local store that sells Accuphase (just 10 minutes from me, PlanetofSound, they appear to be a subsidiary of parent company of the North American distributor, should this be illegal, I don’t know) ...Why should that be illegal?? So I ask him ... would he be prepared to give me a 20 percent discount. He said no. He would not give me any discount at all not even if I paid cash. ... What I couldn’t accept was the fact he wouldn’t budge on ANY sort of discount. I can’t believe this.Why? Do you think he owes you a discount? Perhaps the dealer never discounts. Maybe he reserves discounts for only his best customers, which is an understandable policy. I agree that the US prices for Accuphase seem excessive, but who cares? There’s so much else to choose from! |
Why? Do you think he owes you a discount? Perhaps the dealer never discounts. Maybe he reserves discounts for only his best customers, which is an understandable policy. |
jetter Seems pretty clear why he could expect a discount. Greedy store has jacked up the price vs Japan by over 100%.How do you know the store or distributor is greedy? There may be agreements in place involving the manufacturer that dictates these prices, and Accuphase itself maybe charging a premium for US distribution. Some profit is better than no sale no profitBut you don't know that there is no sale and no profit, other than in this one instance. If the manufacturer sells all of the product that it can make, there's little incentive to discount. Again, I agree that Accuphase pricing seems excessive in the US, but the company competes in a free market. Consumers vote with their wallets. |
How do you know the store or distributor is greedy? There may be agreements in place involving the manufacturer that dictates these prices, and Accuphase itself maybe charging a premium for US distribution.Cleeds, while I see your point, other than adjusting for any difference in the US vs overseas costs of distribution, what would be the benefit/purpose of Accuphase having two different profit pictures for the different markets? If the manufacturer sells all of the product that it can make, there's little incentive to discount. Agree, but with the caveat of wondering why they only seem to raise the prices in the US (I really have no actual experience with Accuphase pricing). |
The benefit is clear to me. It’s to add an air of lustre and mysteriousness to the brand. The North American distributor is simply is indulging them. It’s definetly a good match for them. I’m actually aware of the cultural differences in Japan and outsiders. They would prefer if their products were only sold to Japanese. It’s a sentiment that is deeply imbedded in public consciousness, it permeates everywhere and is why Japanese are actually one of the most xenophobic countries in the world. Also if you guys were in the store with me and heard how I was being spoken to you’d be singing a different tune. Dealer was so rude, just in the tone of his voice and the way he handled things. I didn’t even talk about some other things he said. No way to treat a customer. |
d2girls
... Dealer was so rude, just in the tone of his voice and the way he handled things. I didn’t even talk about some other things he said. No way to treat a customer.At one time or another, I think many audiophiles have experienced this class of "customer service" and there's no excuse for it, regardless of price. I'd walk out and never return. |
@d2girls I am so sorry you ran into this level of snobbery. I’m afraid that’s part of the luxury brand attitude in the US. I remember going to buy a Volvo or an Audi. Similar cars, and price points. The Volvo dealer spent most of his time on his cell phone. I would like to say that Luxman dealers are not like this, but it has been 50 / 50. One was very laid back, happy to show me anything from D’Agostinos to Luxman or Rogue. No problem. Another, within driving distance, was a douche at a show. I have a really tough time buying Accuphase at US prices, given the disparity with Japanese prices. If I’m not mistaken, Luxman was doing the same thing, which was driven due to the US distributor wanting to keep an air or exclusivity, so they kicked him out and started their own distributorship, at the same time they have ramped up new product introductions. It seems to be working out much better for them. You should listen, since in Japan they are about the same price point. Best, E |
I also want to point out a weird thing I've seen often in different industries. A good example is vitamins. I used to subscribe to Consumer Labs. They would buy all sorts of supplements and test their quality. Invariably, the most expensive brands were among the worst. They would have too much, too little, or contaminated products. The middle of the road brands often had the highest quality with labels that best matched the contents. I've seen this repeatedly. When people don't have good ears, they use their eyes and the price tag to shop. Best, E |
Hello I owned Accuphase, 20 plus years ago. This one is a no brainer. Simply one of the best products on the market. The dealers usually are not to nice. I needed a light package upgrade, the dealer was gonna charge me 400.00 for a 20.00 light and a 15 min install. Guy was on CRACK for sure.. I ordered the light packet, kit from Japan, with everything including instructions in English, 40.00 USD. I bought mine from a guy stationed in Japan, and brought it to the US, Killer deal. The only product I ever regretted selling.. . I paid 3,000.00 or close and sold it for over 8,000.00. Should have never sold it..Friggin medical bill. Oh well.. Regards |
stereo53,570 posts06-30-2018 5:41pm@roxy54...…………………………… Experts or not, after 50 years in this hobby, nothing has drawn me in closer to the music than McIntosh. There is a rightness to the sound that I didn't get with other comparatively priced equipment.. For the first time in years, I look forward to listening to my 2 systems and I am now buying new music again. There is also a pride of ownership with the McIntosh that is hard to describe. stereo5 there may be better, I haven't heard it. As good, a little different, better, NO. Everytime I hear read or see the Mac Attackers, I just chuckle. I've owned them forever, VTLs, CJ, Pass (Real Pass fan), First Watt, Accuphase (only one I regretted selling). Few people have ever heard a good vintage Mcintosh, built RIGHT and really sweetened, up. They are just breathtaking. I LOVE the C20s, ESPECIALLY when a guy by the name of Mike Samra rebuilds it. I had him do a C11 and a C20. HOLY COW... .5 THD to .05. DEAD quiet. C2500 wonderful, MX120, MX150, Mx110z (very special sound to) different than ALL the preamps Mac made. Their Valve amps, get out of here... The best. simple .. the best. I have every one x 2 lol.. OCD, really gets to kickin' when it comes to Mac.. LOL NONE of their SS amps, sold them all.. BIG Watts, VTL Man oh man, make my planar systems sing, with a little TLC.. Regards |
