Thank you! I think the main reason that I have found many of thes posts so frustrating is that I can't believe what some members think that holographic means.
Can a system sound too Holographic?
Hi friends :)
So I got a question for those interested. For me, having a 2 channel system with a Holographic soundstage is very desirable.
I bring this up because I had lent some Centerstage 2 footers ( isolation devices) to a friend to try out. To make a long story short, he likes what they are doing under his Lumin T3, however he mentioned that it might be "Too Holographic". I don't know about you guys and gals, but that wouldn't really be a problem for me. Your thoughts or experiences please. Anyone experience a soundstage that was too Holographic?
79 responses Add your response
@roxy54 👍 |
For all the mbl fans out there these days they have a pair of standmounts that the magazines recently raved about for only ~ 22K. Probably all one needs in most rooms. That is a tad less than a pair of new KEF Blade metas.
These two are probably my top choices at present if someday I decide to go nuts and attempt a change from my current $6500 retail in 2008 Ohm F5 series 3, but neither are as adjustable to any room as the Ohm 5s so there is that limitation. Then again I don’t know of any others that are so I may be stuck forever. |
| Post removed |
(....well, 'that' wasn't me... *looking at the chasm...*) @nonoise ....*S*👍 Precisely....or as close as one can inch towards... Haven't gotten a lap dance nor brushed by a loose lead guitar string at necks' end yet, but have gotten the balance of the band to 'get offstage' and stay put... ...but it's nice to have goals....*G* @mapman ...and there are worse places to find oneself, no? ;) Haven't seen those standmount mbls'....gotta go on a wander.... This caught my muse as a mate for my loose amts', tho'.... ...love the smaller things of life...and no, not 'that'....*L* The first ESS speakers I heard, so very long ago....had an oval woofer... The more things change....'n all that.... *s* |
Holographic relates to a hologram. Hologram is a three-dimensional image reproduced from a pattern of interference produced by a split coherent beam of radiation (such as a laser) Holography is a technique that enables a wavefront to be recorded and later re-constructed. Holography is best known as a method of generating real three-dimensional images, but it also has a wide range of other applications. In principle, it is possible to make a hologram for any type of wave, By by From Holographic you can find oligarch and hoopla. |
For the ear (a) and (b) the speakers 1 and 2 do not present the same distance from one another, we can metaphorically with the term holography in physics transpose it in listening experience where we use the ear (a) and the brain computing indirect sound wave (b) and direct soundwave (a) alternatively and reciprocally (as the light wave of reference in an hologram ) from the reference wave incoming from speakers 1 and speakers 2 by a time differential delay ( the interference pattern in physics) different for each ear; and vice versa for ear(b)... This complex computing by the brain recreate holographic information VOLUME of the sound sources who become more than a point, a line or a mere surface,... This is why the sounfiekld of speakers/room and from top headphone illustrate 3 characteristics of the SOUNDFIELD and not the traditional well known two : -- imaging differentiation from the sound sources in relation with each other -- Soundstaging integrating three dimensions in some GLOBAL stage , which can be fixed in less performant and artificial design or in a bad acoustic room but which are normally highly recording dependant for their dimensions size ... ---Holographical definition of EACH sound surces in his own dynamical VOLUME of space... The sound sources are no more a plane but a perceived 3-d relief an outline.. |
Yes, it is like everything else in music. Through a bit of tuning, the system is now on the verge of too holographic, such that the artifacts are occasionally a distraction. Not muted or distorted. When you have a bell, or percussion instrument protruding into the room about 5 feet, it can take away from the music and just be distracting. If it was not on the recording, it would not be there. It is not just noise. A cable upgrade got it there, and now it is pretty interesting when the artifacts happen. I like it when things are tuned to the edge (optimal). I could get one more of the cable set in my system, and it would likely push it over the top. Not going there. I remember someone telling me that their system was so resolving that they could hear the drummer fart. Not really interested in that, so best to keep it inaudible in the background.... |
In 1980 I was so impresssed with a demo of Bob Carver's Sonic Holography pre amp, I drained my savings, bought the c4000 pre & M400 cube amp. Still use the pre amp. Just sold the cube. Replaced with a great Odyssey amp. To me its like the differance between mono and stereo. I do turn it off for some genres like old jazz or a single singer and guitar, but prog rock, synth, electronic, etc music can be immersing. So my answerer to OP, yes it may not suit some music styles, but it can be great for others. By the way my speakers are Magnepan 1.7is which on their own create a nice openess. Polk made speakers back in the 1990s, 2000s? They used a 3rd cable "interconnect" between them. They definatelty created a big soundstage / holographic effect.
|
A sounfield must be coherent... And the cables and amplifier and speaker help for the holography indeed , but a coherent holography is an ACOUSTIC phenomenon FIRST AND LAST coming if the speakers/room is optimized... ....Not a disturbing artefact... But we can create artificial holography for sure, a compaqny i will not name sell devices that do that artificial "holographical sound effect" i am not interested by that kind of "tweaks"...I am in mechanical room acoustic or electronic BACCH filters which are natural recreation of the recording soundstage in a "virtual room holography " with no degradation of timbre instruments... if someone do not want to tune his room to create a natural holography, the Cgoeri BACCH filters do that and IT IS NOT ARTIFICIAL TRICK...Read about it... |
In the 1930's Bell Labs determined that the best simulate the sound of an orchestra in a concert hall with proper acoustics, there should be three channels, the center channel playing the sum of right and left channels. Magnepan did listening tests with untrained audiences who preferred the sound of an orchestra in three channels. A center channel which has buffered inputs from the left and right channels is the way to do this. |
I wanted more holographic sound despite having two pairs of Shakti Hallographs. I purchased a GIK Q7D quadradic diffuser for the center mount between the speakers front wall and that made the soundstage pop from center as well as spread the sound for centerfill-EXCEPT in recordings, particularly 50s stereo jazz and pop where they were recorded left and right and no middle or just one instrument in the middle (Kessel in trio on Contemporary, or just right and left as in Command Percussion pop LPs). One of the two major reasons I want to replace my speakers is to obtain an out of the speaker sound and the other to obtain wide seating dispersion/imaging. I have basically a one person speaker. Von Schweikert is the opposite of dispersion compared to Duntech/Dunleavy/Legacy Focus speakers (the latter of which I have along with a much better dispersion speaker Legacy Signature IIIs). |
@drbarney1 +1 absolutely! Three channel recording of orchestra provides the best orchestral sound reproduction. |
A system CANNOT be too holographic... Holograhy does not means artificial and unnatural audio trick AT ALL... It is an acoustic concept related to the way the acoustic recording trade-off album is well or not so well translated in the acoustic room of the listener ( a dedicated room or a living room)... You confused and conflated two completely different things here : the live listening of a spectator in some specific location In the theater and the location of the recording microphones trade-off... We want what is possible and real: the specific recording choices to be perceived through our speakers/ room relation.. You want something which is impossible: the recreation of a specific listener impression in a concert... There is no relation between a listener location in the music Hall and the recording microphones CHOICES by the engineer..
When we listen a GOOD recording the soundfield impression must be on par with the best listener possible location but cannot be the same by acoustic definition... ( For example one mic recording technique with "Sound Liaison" company albums is so good that it recreate well a very good listener location in a real event) In most live event the soundfield will be less good than on a very good recordings... The only advantage of a live event most of the times is not the ACOUSTIC conditions, but the artist magical real presence...
|
I get wanting a home system to have the clarity and dynamics of live music, but it is rare to hear a live concert that sounds great unless in a specifically designed music venue. Ive been to more concerts than not that are boomy, too echoy, etc. As I posted previoisly my Carver pre amp has a sonic holograghy function that helps expand music all around the speskers.. I have read about some high end systems that naturally do this, but since my budget is limited I make the best of what I have. |
Some people prefer more wall of sound with just a tad of sound stage definition. Or he might mean to detailed. I am like you, prefer a well defined sound stage with imagines solidly placed across the front of the room with depth. Love it when something sounds even further back than the front wall like on the other side of it. Yes with the focus dead center between the speakers if that is the way it is supposed to sound based on the mix. Of course not all mixes are capable of sound stage spread this expansive but when it occurs it’s heaven. |
