Well Taralabs speaker cables do not come in length over 12 feet as far as I can tell. I need about 4-5 meters. |
Well, I guess it boils down to trying them in your system and seeing how you like them - as always
Personally I like the d352 in my rig - detailed dynamic, spacious, very focussed no problems with the highs - or lows for that matter.
But I might just pop down to the audio store to see what they have :-) |
The cheaper Taralabs were better in dynamics compared to the 352. I owned in the past the best pure silver xlr Vdhul made. It was a good cable, these days you can get a much higher level compared to this. The difference are in timing, sound realism and in backs. I also Judge cable in depth and in wide. Here on Audiogon most people still play with 2-dimensional amps. They see threw total different glasses then I do. I have done maybe a few thousands of tests. Because I do this for over 15 years. I see you use a Naim amp. This is a full flat 2-dimensional amp. I personally could not sell this because it has nothing to do with music and sound in real. I had these discussions with the distributter many times. Instruments and voices have there proportions and also there is depth easy to hear. With Naim focus is quite poor compared to the extreme touchabel image I can create. And there is no depth. Wenn you use a recording with only 3 instruments and there are placed a few metres from eachother in depth. The Naim will place the instruments on one line. I showed this in a demo for the Naim people. They said: you are right. But an amp of 100 dollar does it the same way. Depth is the most thrilling part in highend audio. Wenn it is not there you are out of the competition. Most people who own Naim do have little experience with live recording. I taught many of them what a full 3-dimensional image is. For 95% it was new. That is why I learn people the difference between 2 and 3-dimensional image. All agrred that 3-dimensional sound is superior over 2-dimensional sound. The difference is big as to compare between compromised and uncompromised music. |
@ Mordante, Hi, you can call Taralabs direct, the factory, They will make any size cable you desire, A few months ago, I had Taralabs make a fellow member here a 5-meter interconect, that said, I do not believe they will have any problems tring to accomadate you, you can get any size speaker cable you desire or interconnect,,,, cheers. |
Bo1972 knows cables real well!, His recomendations are sound!, you are in good hands, cheers. |
Bo1972 - if it were possible I'd invite you to come listen to my rig, since it is far from flat and quite nicely 3D - perhaps not as good as your amp, but still very good compared to many other that I have listened to.
I attribute this 3D image to the upgrades in cables - power/interconnect and speaker and very much to the Gershman Acoustic speakers
I do have several tracks where the instruments are positioned very accurately in the sound stage with the venue acoustics adding significant height to the performance - just as you described.
The most recent improvement was due to a change in the mains connectors on my furutech 10 gauge cable, which improved the 3D image to levels never experience before.
Granted - the amp out of the box with standard power cords has a flat 2D presentation - but then so do many other brands.
The biggest improvements I have made with my rig is with the power cords - they have transformed the whole sound.
I do believe that your opinion is based on what you have experienced - but then again - so is mine. So I think we will just have to agree to disagree.
The nice thing about Agon - there are many different opinions available for people to evaluate.
Regards. |
The most important thing is that I sell most of the time 3 dimensional systems. It is very easy to learn people the difference between 2 and 3-dimensional image. I even use the stores of competitors. I send them to listen to particular amps, sources and speakers. Because I want them to understand the difference. I use the most important competitors in the same price tage. Sound has become like 1 and 1 is 2 for me. For me it is very simple which brands ( if I know them) are 2 or 3-dimensional. That is what I want to know wenn I test it. I want to know all properties of the stuff I test. I am only interested in the best. I hate all the average and poor audio there is on the market. So many people spend a lot of money on shit. I want all people to get a stunning sound for the money they would like to spend. It is that simple! |
@Bo1972
Where can I find your store? You can email me if you want at.
Mordante@gmail.com |
Soon I will have a new website. I will do it in dutch and in english. I have Sony professional cameras for highest level in Full HD without compression. I will make a lot of video's of different product. I will inform wenn it is ready. |
Love reading your posts on this topic Bo1972. They are very informative and what you are saying is true, thank you. I have recently discovered the difference between 2d and 3d sound from my hi-fi system and it's evolution. I think that a great amp, cables, and speakers helped me achieve this type of holographic presentation. Most others here on this forum will experience the difference for themselves. If they have an ear for music, they will choose components capable of reproducing three dimensional sound everytime! |
I hope do give some presentations in the US as well. For me it is very easy to set a much higher level in sound than most other brands can give. Nice to read that people appreciate it. I received personal mails in the last few months from people at Audiogon who bought things were I was talking about I have a very direct way of talking about audio. For some it can be to hard. I want people to open there eyes and ears. With the right advice everyone can get a much higher level for the money they spend. |
Great to read that this thread is alive and well.
For those seeking an outstanding power cord (PC), check out Stage III Concepts, offered by Aaudio Imports. It is a real killer! |
I recently reviewed the high fidelity cables ct-1. you can read the review on the website audiophilia.com.
if the review is to long go to the conclusion section. perhaps , leave a comment.
the value of the cables under review was $9200.
my editor removed the cost of a digital cable, which is $800.
based upon my review all cable is not hype. moreover, the affect of the cable rivals that of a change in a component. |
Interesting review Mr T, however, I will still hold out on the High Fidelity cables due to my experiences with Virtual Dynamics cables. From your description, they sound fairly similar, but what really bothered me about the VD cables was their immediate presentation. They threw a very large, 2 dimensional soundstage, that had no depth at all. I felt like I was immediately transported to the front row of the event, with the band/orchestra playing right in my face. I prefer a more laid back, 3 dimensional soundstage presentation, more like a mid-hall seat.
Don't get me wrong, I would be willing to listen to these cables if someone wants to let me listen to them for free. LOL!! |
Mrtennis, Very nicely done review. Thank you |
@ Jmcgrogan2,wow!,, somtimes when you post, Its like taking words right out of my mouth!, you know I love the same realistic presatation as you do!, well done my friend, I also agree, I am willing to give the High fidelity cables a spinn, they would have extreme competition to persuade me from Taralabs!, I cannot waite untill the NEW TOP FLAG SHIP Taralabs cables come out, cheers john. |
if you read my review I do not mention a lack of depth.
I heard solo instruments in the background, relative to the foreground ensembles.
while I would admit that they bring the listener to the music, it is not at the expense of depth.
other cables may present more like a mid to rear hall perspective. sometimes, a recessed treble can create the sensation of depth.
I was listening to a recording of the Brandenburg concerti, and replaced one tube in my Vincent cd player, and observed greater depth from a harpsichord solo.
in conclusion, it is possible to create greater depth, by changing tubes and/or other components in a stereo system. |
@ Mrtennis, Hi, I love the sound of Vincent cd-players!, what model do you have?, My exsperience with vincent digital is they have one of the best soundstage presatations I have ever heard in my life!, Depth with the Vincent cd-s7 player I had was extrodinary!, If you do not have that, then the High -fidelity cables you have offer more of a forward, up-front presatation, live music does not sound like that period, with Taralabs cables that I do own, the presatation is mid-hall, in the middle of my listening room,so spooky sounding, like you are there at the actual musical event,, that in my opinion, sounds more realistic and natural!, That is why I agreed with Jmcgrogan2. |
Try the Stage III Zyklops PC , awesome and it's big brother Kraken is supposed to be even better !!! |
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i should also add, i used the vincent as a transport to the ps audio perfect wave dac (the original). there was no forwardness with that combo, either.
the vincent makes an excellent transport. |
I changed a tube again and depth increased.
besides the digital source, the pre amp, amp and speakers also determine the soundstage,
while a cable may have tendencies, they can be counteracted by other changes in your stereo system. |
@ Mrtennis, Hi, I agree with your last post,The vincent players uses teac transports, they work fine to me as well!, I may buy another vincent for the second system I will build!, I am going to audition the Esoteric K-03 player in due time, If that sounds fantastic, I will go with that on the main system, If it does not, Its vincent all the way baby!, they are very musical players indeed!, cheers. |
Often you need to buy better tubes wenn you want to buy a Vincent. Often within one years the sound of there own tubes was not the same anymore as wenn they were new. |
Thanks Bo1972, I did not know that, my problem I have with vincent is, If I am not mistaken, the tubes in the vincent cd-s7 are hard wired!, I have never seen that before, do you believe that could be chanched some where socket tube plug in like most componets out there? |
I checked the inside of the cd s7 dac and cd a7 on the Vincent website.
there is no evidence that the tubes are hard wired.
I also called a California dealer, who said the tubes are not hard wired. |
@ Mrtennis, Hi, Thankyou, looking at the audio visor catalog, they show the tubes with no pins for tube sockets, It clearly shows the tubes with wires coming straight from the bottom of the tubes, It is a pic with the tubes out side of the unit, they have showed this pic many times with the vincent cd-s7 player, I hope you are correct, That would be grand to be able to tube roll the unit my self if I get another vincent player. |
@Audiolabyrinth: I will ask my technician, I don't know either. |
"09-20-13: Audiolabyrinth
@ Mrtennis, Hi, Thankyou, looking at the audio visor catalog, they show the tubes with no pins for tube sockets, It clearly shows the tubes with wires coming straight from the bottom of the tubes, It is a pic with the tubes out side of the unit,"
Definitely check with Vincent first, but I'm almost certain you're talking about a tube that hasn't been terminated (terminated may not be the proper word for it). But if its a bunch of solid core wires that come out of the bottom of the tube, they get snipped off. After that they put the plastic housing over the bottom of the raw wires. The housing has the key way and the pins that actually go into the tube socket. I think they are showing you a picture of a tube before its finished being made. |
@ Zd542, Hi,The pics are decieving!, Had me fooled!, I hope you are correct, it seems I am in the market for another player if Paul of usa tubes is seriously going to give me a full refund for my Ayon cd-2s player?, I may have to buy another vincent to have a player now, versus having what I want in the spring, the vincent player I had thus far was the most musical player I have ever heard!, not the clearest with analitical detail that people love these days, just darn right real sounding, way more enjoyable than Ayon digital, 12au7, 12ax7 tubes that are in the vincent versus 6h30 tubes that are in the Ayon, who knows, I suppose I might move forward and look for a Esoteric K-03 used to, what are your impresseions of the K-line Esoteric players? |
I will be getting the Vincent cd s7 dac. i'll pop the cover and report back. I will be reviewing the player. |
I have the cd x7 dac. the tubes are not hard wired |
Hi Everyone!
I've tested several brands of wires and, in my experience, many of them work like an equalizer. I think that's why it's very difficult to give a perfect advice to anyone about a cable cause you have to know perfectly every component of the entire system. Neutral doesn't mean anything cause it'll depend on what you consider neutral. There is no absolute.
For examble, Bo1972 consider Naim as flat and 2D. Based on what exactly? On which speakers? with what kind of player? cables?
I think it's cool to be so confident to think our advices are the ONES, but Hifi is more complex cause it comes with the background of the listener, his feelings, his history and his own way of thinking. It's a cerebral hobby!
To compare it with cars is absurd cause cars is mechanic, no brainer in that hobby!!!
When you want to "feel" in Hifi, that's where belong high-end purpose! And there are just a few brands that give you the emotion, the evidence where you stop thinking and start feeling. I seek those pieces of paradise and if i can find it for less, i'm all ears!!!
So please start writing about your experiences and stop thinking... I like forums to glad informations about experiences, not looking for opinions as steril as the writer... |
I auditioned Naim often. With different speakers. To hear if there is depth is quite easy. For example speakers who give a lot of depth as well amps can do...or not. Wenn you play the same recordings on naim almost every instrument is standing on the same line as the voice. At shows I used the same cd's. After hearing with the Naim people they said yess there is no depth with this recording. These days I only sell 3-dimensional sound. I still use 2-dimensional sound to learn people how much less thrilling it is. I never met a person who prefers 2-dimensional sound. Maybe there are people who would prefer it. You never know. And yes you are right about that many cables work like an equalizer. That is why I say: you get less with some cables who equalize too much. I use a-b comparison to learn peole differences in sound. I also use a-b comparison to see what the preference is of a person. |
I met people who owned Naim and they did not know what 3-dimensional sound is. After hearing it, they said: next time I would go for a 3-dimensional sound. Wenn people do not know it, they do not know what the difference is. 6 months ago at the show many shopkeepers came to me and asked about the 3-dimensional sound. They were amazed and loved it. For them it was new to hear a sound what was this palpable and the depth and wide of the stage. I want to give many people as possible the same stunning sound at home. I want to sell the highest level of emotion in music possible. |
He's right about Naim. People usually buy Naim for some of the other qualities it has, but not for imaging. |
I asked them why you bought it? They said; we loved the sound and didn't know about individual focus and depth. Wenn you give them a demo of 3-dimensional sound they al say the ame thing: this is superior. So again; it is that simple! |
During the time I visited many people at home I was amazed about the poor level in sound many people have. They spend often a lot of money and they still play at a low level. Often they are not happy with it, and it is clear why!! |
Bo1972, My only Naim product is the CD555/PS555, (I love it) and I'm thinking about their new PS555DR. Very informative thread, guys! |
Ofcourse you can and you are allowed to be happy :) with your Naim. It still often depends about knowledge. There are enough peolple with sets which are based and focused on sound. ( very important part) I understand why people like Naim. It has a nice sound and is very good in dynamics. Low freq. have a very important and positive influence on our emotion. But in the world of the absolute sound/ highend a 3-dimensional sound sets music to a new and higher level. I had many conversations about this with shopkeepers, musicians and audio manufactures. They all agree about wenn we are talking about the absolute sound. And what you need. I played for a long time with the best speakers B&W makes. But cause of live music, shows and auditions I had to agree that there was an important and essential part to the absolute sound missing. This is depth. Not only depth makes music more stunning. Also a wider stage has a very important influence on this. |
@ Mrtennis, Hi, Thankyou for looking into the tubes in the vincent for me, Tube Roll! |
Bo1972, You feel that the source component alone at the beginning of the signal will either make or break the 3-D image regardless of what follows? I have nice other stuff further down the chain :) |
I have a 12ax7 and two mullard 6922 picked out. since I will review the unit, I must get permission from the distributor to review the player using NOS tubes.
In my own Vincent cd s6, I am using a tesla 12ax7 and mallard gold pin 6922. |
A source is able to break the 3-D image. What I did was using speakers and amps which cab give a deep and wide stage. After this you can test sources how they buid a stage. So you easilly can hear if they are 2 or 3 dimensional. It is quite easy. And yess there are big differences between all the brands. Testing speakers is the same. Use amps which can give a deep stage and compare speakers how they build a stage. Even with cables it is the same. For example; I sold a lot of Nordost for over 9 years of time. So I did hundreds od tests with Nordost cables. So it was easilly to hear and compare with others how they react.The biggest advantage of all these tests is that I can bring in missing properties/talents which should be in a set which are not there. In 10 seconds I know of every system what is there and what is missing. I can even describe the stage and were instruments and voices are standing. I also can hear the sound in those 10 seconds. And how big instruments and voices are projected. And how the low freq. are and if there are any layers within the low freq. And also how much resolution/information there is. Most people who use audio as a hobby often can hear one of two parts of all the parts were you Judge a system for. This is the main reason why often there ssytems miss essential parts which should be there. Tje nice thing about cables is that you can bring in new properties/talents which are not there.That is why I love cables and what you can change in every system. |
I can only agree with the importance of 3D image in Stereo system. The problem is the "subtleties" many amplifier designers choose to offer this result.
Some amplifiers seems more forward because of a bad dynamic control.
Some others offer deep soundstage but poor dynamic.
Naim amps, for example, are quite flat because of their particular dynamic but it's also very "foot taping" kind of amps with an engaging sound. People doesn't care about depth or even notice it because they focus on the fun they get with Naim.
Brand like NVA or Naim are cheaper and give a lot of fun for a small amount of money. All is compromise in Hifi.
I don't know where you can find 3D amp for a small amount of money? I admire your dedication to your customer Bo1972, and if you're able to give the 3D emotional result for the same amount of money, i'll be very interested in the brands you promote?
For me (and i think for many others readers here), the perfect amp combine Micro and macro dynamics, depth and wide soundstage, 3D when you can feel each instruments on the scene, acurate timbre and most of all : EMOTION. I find it with my Music culture combo...for 25000€ (32000$)!
I didn't find many electronics nor cables that fit my requirements of perfection. 3D image, i only here it on High-end (and expensive) products because for me, 3D means the "you are there" kind of feeling, the impression you can turn around the musicians. It's a lot more than depth, a complete new universe. If you can't have the money for that, stay on a fun NVA amp cause it gives this vividness that comes with real music. There is only a few brands capable to give that on the market. There is flaws but, man, so fun and so immediacy!
The last brand that i discovered and surprised me was TSAKIRIDIS Devices. It's a greek company with tube devices. The sound is really engaging and on the neutral side of warm for tube amps. It's really good but not perfect...and cheap.
Perfection doesn't exist in Hifi, at the end, it's just you and the music you love...only your own satisfaction. |
These days I even can get a stunning 3-dimensional image out of a Onkyo TX-NR525 of 449 dollar. Also with this amp I can use my way of measuremt to get a lot more dynamic and resolution out of the amp. The fun thing is to give even people who spend less this experience. I can influence the stage of a system by measuring. I use Audysseu and Pro particulary from a highend perspective. For me it is very esasy to outperform any Naim at an audio show. I love use a level which is superior to any system on a show. That why I was the best at a big audio show this year. I am a perfectionist and I Always want to win. It is that simple!! |
What I said earlier; I talked to many Naim owners. Most of them had no experience or knowledge with depth. Wenn instruments and voices play fully loose from a speaker and also in depth, every person understand in a few seconds why it is far superior to any 2-dimensional system. |
So then, just one Naim cord placed anywhere in any system will blow it's whole 3-D imaging? |
We are talking about Naim amps and sources. I do not know the cables of Naim. The only thing what I can say is that I never tested stunning cables from manufacturers who make amps and sources. Some were ok and sometimes good, but never stunning. In 1999 I bought the Musical Fidelity Nu-Vista 300 poweramp. I was at a store were I auditioned the Nautilus 802 with my amp, pre amp and Meridian 500/566 combi. They had the best Naim power,pre and source at that moment. My combi blow away the naim set with ease. I never forget his face. The other day he became Musical Fidelity dealer. The distributer said it to me. I knew why!!! |
Bo, I was being facetious regarding the cables. I just searched " Naim CD555 review". The first one I found was by Michael Fremer for Stereophile were he states "Intensely three dimensional" |
