Burmester 218.....

You should compare it to the new SIM audio 861 amplifier after you hear it I don't think you'll be as happy.

thanks but never a fan of sim, ill stick to my 218s @zuesman 

@ckr1969 

Enjoy your equipment, I am happy for you..

ckr1969,

that's too bad because the 861 is better obviously you haven't heard it you'll be crying if you do. it costs a lot less and it's a lot better, The technology is way ahead of Bermester, It's the first A/AB that has no local or global feedback, every other amp out there uses some local feedback.

@zuesman an I assume you have compared both?  I doubt it, also why do you care and why are you being an ass, better than Burmester, that's your opinion which means very little to me, have a good one

ckr1969,

I don't know if you got my email message that I sent you directly but yes I have compared both and the SIM audio is better because of the new MDCA circuitry that they have developed, I know of no other A/AB amp on the market that uses no local or global feedback, every other amp that uses no global feedback still uses some local feedback which causes the background to not be as black so you can't hear it as deep into the sound stage Go listen to the 861 if you can I don't think you'll be very happy but you have to do a fair comparison one-on-one not a stereo amp against bridged monoblocks.

@zuesman BS, an I really dont care, I have listened to many SIM amps/pre combo. if you like that sound more power to you but do not say I would be disappointed, ill keep my Burmester ref system, you enjoy yours, later

CKR 1969, 

I can say that you'll be disappointed because I've heard both of them now you haven't obviously, the Sim audio 861 amplifier will leave the 218 in the dust you will hear stuff way in the background in the small little details that you won't hear with the 218 because unfortunately it uses local feedback which masks those fine little details, The background is much blacker with the 861 so until you hear them both side by side like I have you obviously are talking from being uninformed unfortunately and I'm not saying that the 218 is a bad sounding amp it's very good it's just not as good as the new 861.

ckr1969,

what is BS? The fact that you can't handle the truth? like I said I've compared them both stereo amp to stereo amp obviously you have not that's why I can tell you that the 861 is better so until you go listen to the both side by side you can't say BS to anything because you haven't done the comparison have you? but if you like overpaying for inferior product that's totally up to you.

just wanted to let everyone know who's interested I just bought the new SIM audio 861 amplifier and compared it to the Burmester 218 which costs $70,000 in Canada, the new SIM audio amplifier at $29,000 Canadian sounds better than the Burmeister 218 at $70,000, the new MDCA circuitry that SIM audio developed is a real game changer it's the first A/AB amp on the market that I know of that uses no local or global feedback all the other amplifiers that use no global feedback still have local feedback in them which affects the sound, so if you want to overpay and pay $50 or $70,000 for a German amp that will be bested by a $29,000 amp from  sim audio go right ahead but you've got to give yourself the opportunity to go listen to the 861, I think after you listen to it you won't be spending 50 or $70,000 for an amplifier. It's that good.

I am stuck at 70,000 for an amp. You can buy an apartment for that.

@zuesman

Thanks for your comments. You say sounds better. Could you compare and contrast the differences? That would be interesting to know. 

ghdprentice,

The differences I heard were in the background details The background was blacker you could hear fine little details in the music way in the background that I was missing with the Burmester, The b a s s was also better with the 861, don't get me wrong it wasn't huge differences but for a $22,000 US amplifier to go up against the $50,000 US amplifier and be better is saying something about the new MDCA technology that SIM audio has developed.

@zuesman you must be fun at parties :)

grislybutter,

so I shouldn't answer GHDPrentice When he asked the question what differences did I hear? if you don't like what I say you don't have to read it and you don't have to come on this forum do you?

@zuesman you need to grow up, you like sim, ww get it, enjoy it but crapping on threads is childish, but whatever floats your boat

Two 218s and both buzzing according to the stereophile review. That would piss me off. If yours works fine and you love the sound, enjoy it!

ckr1969,

I think you're the one that needs to grow up, I was just stating what I heard and the differences if you don't like that because you own Burmester too bad and the Stereophile review was a joke obviously Burmester bought a lot of advertising from them when two super expensive amplifiers start buzzing and he still said it sounds good you're full of crap and you should go on some of the other forums and see what people are saying about that review it was a joke and everybody said it when two amplifiers start buzzing you shouldn't be continuing the review you should send them back and get another pair and if it does the same thing then you know that there's a problem with the quality control and the manufacturing.

audphile1,

Don't you think that the reviewer should have stopped the review and sent the amplifiers back and got a second pair to see if they would be doing the same thing? saying that the amplifier still sounded great and you got audible buzzing? how can an amplifier sound great when you got buzzing going? that would drive me crazy.

@zuesman I am simply referring to how rude you are, to e.g. @ckr1969. You know you can get your point across without insulting people. But of course it's up to you. (If you are capable)

and here's the last thing I'm going to say about this topic any reviewer that says amplifier sound great when there's a buzzing going on in the amplifiers has lost all credibility Stereophile has become a joke.

grislybutter,

how rude I am? lol what did I say to CKR 1969 that was rude I just told him what I heard and the differences, how is that rude? I've been at this for 40 years and my ears are extremely good I used to play French horn in the Vancouver symphony orchestra so my ears are very attuned to know what instruments sound like and voices sound like in real life unfortunately most audiophiles don't and I also have the ability to do something that many people can't I can go listen to one system in one store and then go and listen to another system in another store and make the comparison in my head and hear the differences not too many people have that ability and I'm thankful to God that I can, and my system is quite expensive but it's taken me 40 years to get here.

how can an amplifier sound great when you got buzzing going?
 

it can’t. However, a properly working unit may sound really good. Don’t know how it stands up to the newest SimAudio. 

For 50 large I would pick up a used Boulder 2160 though. 

As to SimAudio, I had Moon 330A in my system and it was a really nice amp.
I wouldn’t hesitate to try the new 861 based on my experience with 330A.

@zuesman apparently you aren't capable. But don't worry your extraterrestrial listening abilities make up for it 

grislybutter,

You're now becoming laughable so I don't even want to bother to waste my time with you anymore thanks for your incoherent babble lol

@zuesman I prefer "laughable" to being a bully. Keep punching away, if that makes your day. Bye. 

grislybutter 

How is telling someone what I heard being a bully and saying that I thought that the 861 was better than the 218? please explain that, if he doesn't like that I'm telling the truth in what I heard too bad for him and you.

@zuesman move on already, you are full of crap, I doubt you have heard the 218 and sim on same system, an now you mention the 216 in a post, again, BS, what dealer has this on display so one can hear the sim vs 216 vs 218 on same system, etc, plz let me know who you dealt with an the shop, I may wanna take a listen.

alls good tho, I just got my 2nd 218 and am thrilled, will be another week tho before I install it.

also, glad you are enjoying your sim, they do make some nice stuff. by the way, you wouldn’t be a vette owner by chance

ckr1969,

I guess you're dumber than you sound so I'll tell you how I heard both I took my 861 down to the dealer who sells Burmeister and I let my 861 warm up for a couple hours and then we put it up against the 218 stereo to stereo not bridged monoblock to bridged monoblock, and the background was a lot blacker with the 861 and the fine details in the background we're much clearer and more airy and spacious and also the bass was tighter faster and more articulate with the 861, and I even brought my OCC rectangular cables which are far superior to anything OFC at any price on the market to use in both systems, so I'm glad you like wasting money and spending another $50,000 on another 218 but you could have got two 861s for only $44,000 which would sound better so until you can compare both like I did stop flapping your gums because obviously you can't say anything about it because you haven't compared the two side by side like I have. and here's another one When amplifiers that cost $50,000 each start buzzing and the reviewer says it's still sounded good you know that reviewer is full of BS don't you lol, what a joke that review was and everybody that read it knows that stereophile is full of BS, they'll give you a good review on the amount of advertising that you buy from them.

ckr1969,

Oh I forgot to mention the differences weren't huge and the 218 is a very very good sounding amplifier but when a $22,000 amplifier sounds better that's saying something about the new MDCA circuitry that sim audio has developed.So why spend $50,000 on an amp when you can get a better one for $22,000, and let's just say to your ears the 218 sounded a little bit better that doesn't justify double the price does it?.

ckr1969,

The last thing by the way no I'm not a vet owner I'm a BMW owner.

I am stuck at 70,000 for an amp. You can buy an apartment for that.

LOL at @grislybutter  . . . that's more than my house listed for way back when!

@zuesman who was the dealer?  I still call BS that you demo'd them together, who is the dealer, simple question that should have a simple answer

an bmw, that explains alot, later

If judging by the tone of this 'conversation',this following words may not be too important for some, but 'just in case'...

Burmester is much more expansive overseas than in Europe. Even here (in Europe) is certainly not known to be a brand with 'affordable' prices. But there are some strong points of owning their gear. First, it sounds great, (you may like some other things better and thats fine) Certainly they have a 'house' sound. It is all hand build in Germany and the quality of work and parts used is very, very good. The service (if needed) from factory is available even for models that are not produced any more. They do not make new models often and for some they offer the possibility for factory upgrade, to newer versions. They hold value really well.

clk1969,

Yes driving a BMW was very nice they handle like a dream and the dealer was in Canada so you know what Go look up all the dealers in Canada and you'll find the right one eventually I could tell you and make it easy for you but I'm going to let you do it the hard way and phone every Canadian dealer lol.

@zuesman like I said, you are full of crap and your "story" makes zero sense.  you buy your dream amp sim 861 which is pretty new to the market so you haven't had it long, in your opinion it does everything right and very well spent money.  but than I guess you are in the market for another amp, so lets drag your amp to the mystery dealer and compare it for hours along with your cables in there store, yea, that's believable, most folks would have given a deposit and compare the amp in there own house, but than again..........by the way, you clearly think your sim is the best on the market or among the best, why did you drag it to a dealer to compare it, in 35 years of being in this hobby I have never dont this, pretty odd but we both know you won't have an answer

ckr1969,

I told you where the dealer was in Canada where I live why should I make it easy for you Go phone every dealer in Canada and then you'll finally hit the right one which I was at and then you'll find out so knock yourself out you'll hit the right one eventually there's only a few in Canada not that many lol.

@zuesman again, dodge the question, why did you feel the need to drag your magnificent amp to a dealer and audition for hours, simple question, that amp is new to the market, legit question

Well if I have the amp already in my house why shouldn't I take it to the store to compare? and don't you think that's my choice to do what I want? and why would I put a deposit on something that I don't want to buy that doesn't even make sense so to me it made more sense to take the amp that I own which is the 861 and compare it to the Burmeister It's too bad that you overpaid for an amp that unfortunately is not as good and even if you compare them and you thought the 218 was better it's only going to be incrementally better in your eyes so it's not worth double the money to get that little improvement that you think you will have and again I will say this any $50,000 amplifier not one but two that buzzes during the review you can't say much on the quality control for that company can you? and the reviewer saying that it's still sounded good with that kind of an audible buzz everybody that read that on the forums was laughing at that reviewer, we know that stereophile has no credibility anymore, you get a great review based on how much money you spend on advertising with them.

@zuesman LOL, no intention to buy, you just wanted to compare, not much of a life there buddy and wasting a salesman time and energy, but again, we both know this is a fairytale, enjoy your amp and have a nice weekend, im off to my dealer, gonna compare my Burmester to there amps to convince myself I made the right decision

like I said phone every dealer in Canada and you'll hit the right one and you'll see that you're the one that's in the fairytale and what I do with my time is up to me and if I want to go compare my amp to another one that's up to me as well I just wanted to prove that a $29,000 Canadian amp is better than a $50,000 and a $70,000 amp made in Germany which I did, so you're the one that's a fool wasting $100,000 on 2 amps that aren't as good and like I said before even if you think they're better they're going to be so incrementally better that it's not worth double the money like the saying goes the law of diminishing returns. my system is no slouch It's worth $85,000, and if you bother to do any research you will find out that the rectangular OCC single crystal wire is far superior to anything OFC like companies like transparent charge $70,000 for you got to be an absolute idiot to spend that much money on a piece of wire lol.

Yes keep convincing yourself of that lol You're comparing them to the dealers amps what other amps are you comparing them to at least I told you what amps I compared, and if you think spending $50,000 on an amp is smart keep thinking that lol. but it's your money if you want to waste it go right ahead, like I said I didn't think the Burmester was bad it was very very good actually but technology moves ahead and the MDCA circuitry that SIM audio has developed is a game changer and this app will definitely go up against 50 and $70,000 amps and be better or as good and obviously you haven't heard the 861 so you can't make any comments can you? since I own it and have and have now taken the trouble to take it down to a Burmester dealer and compared them I can make an honest opinion and the Burmester is not worth twice the price of the 861.

I think this may be the definition of "thread crapping".

Ckr1969, enjoy your amp!

Zuesman, we see you dude.

@acman3 thanks, its great amp

ckr1969,

I assume you live in the US so you want to come to Canada and listen to the amps unfortunately mine won't be there because this store does not sell Simaudio, that's the reason I took my 861 down there do you need me to explain it any clearer lol?

@zuesman you have a great imagination

I am stuck at 70,000 for an amp. You can buy an apartment for that.

In Guatemala though

The Burmester easily wins on looks. Just sayin