Broken hearted...magnepan and vandersteen
Call Jim Salk at Salk Audio. His Song3 Encores at $6,000 sound incredible. Listened to them at RMAF and they were by far the best speakers under $20,000. Jim sells direct, but uses the best speakers and his cabinet workmanship is custom and really high quality. Excellent recommendation! Salk speakers are one of the best values, at any price range. And the quality of the woodwork on the cabinets is also better than anything you'll find without spending much more elsewhere. |
If you bought two new Vandy Sub 3's, yes, it would bring the price very close to the Quatro. If you don't mind giving up the freq. EQ. of the Sub 3's, you can buy 2 used Vandy 2Wq's which you can improve the sound of the Treo immensely. I as some others have used this combo with great results. If you look around and are patient, you could pick up a couple of used 2Wq's for $1200-$1400 in very good condition. Just an option to consider. |
re "
I heard a VAST difference between the Treo ct and the quatro ct
" I've auditioned them. The bass of the Treo CT is excellent, but doesn't go nearly as low as the Quatro. The mids and treble of both are very close, and superb. I want the Treo CT, and would then add one of his new subs when I could afford it. It would make no sense to get two subs ... you'd have about $14K invested and it would make more sense to get the Quatro CTs with better built-in bass. I cannot afford the Quatro CT, but that would be my first choice. The Treo CT is special. I think I can live without the maximum low bass response. |
re " The problem with the vandersteen speakers is that they have drivers that overlap over a wide range. This is not only pointless but can cause a muddy sound." --- Sorry, not trying to pick a fight, but as a Vandersteen owner for 20+ years, this is bogus. I’ve listened to the 3, the Treo CT and the Quatro CT at some length, too. Great speakers. I'm no fanboy, but as I research my next pair of speakers, Vandys keep coming up at the top of the list, with some other good makes. Richard V is a genius. |
I had a very different experience than you. I was at a Vandersteen speaker show in Atlanta last week. I heard a VAST difference between the Treo ct and the quatro ct. To me the quatros were completely different than the Treos It wouldn't make sense for Richard to make identically sounding speakers wher one was about half the price as the other?. I initially went to the show to buy the treo ct but I much preferred the quatro. Note: the quatro were properly set up in a private room and the treos were in an open environment. I have owned Vandersteen speakers for 44 years. You cannot beat time and phase correct speakers. |
Good News....you can now build your own Dennis Murphy BMRs for under $1500....Dennis is saying over on AVS that the cabinets will be available soon for about $400 for the pair. https://meniscusaudio.com/product/phiharmonic-audio-bmr-speaker-kit/ |
The beauty of the BMR is the RAAL ribbon tweeter...and as was previously mentioned, you can still buy them from Salk http://www.salksound.com/model.php?model=BMR%20Monitors another RAAL ribbon tweeter alternative loudspeaker for less money that seems to be getting very favorable comments...and you have a 30 day return...is from Ascend. http://www.ascendacoustics.com/pages/products/speakers/SRM2EX/srm2ex.html |
@gormdane Thanks for the reply to my comment. I do have the Mike Powell silver upgrade and I have noted a significant improvement. I think the MyeStands are important. They were recommended to me by my Maggie dealer, and after researching them I took the plunge. They are well made with a reasonable turnaround time. Yes, they offer stability. But more important is that they offer rigidity to a panel that is moving albeit in small amounts back and forth which motion likely takes away from where the energy likely would other go, which is to Sonics. Those have made a big difference to my system. As for amps and clipping, yes, with the Powell upgrade one needs to be careful to always turn off or mute your preamp before doing anything with your amps, because you have no fuses. I suppose that concern is mitigated by the Synergistics. The silver Powell upgrade replaces the cheap stock fuse with a silver tube. It’s not a fuse. As for amps, I run the Bryston 28B3 (cubed) monoblocks. So I have tons of power and headroom. Also good power management cabling and interconnects. I recommend the MyeStands and a fuse and jumper upgrade highly. Actually Magnepan really out to sell these or recommend them to their buyers. But that is another story. |
I liked the speed and clarity of the Magnepan 0.7's when I auditioned several speakers in the store. But they need some power. I also like the single-ended triode sound which is not enough for Magnepans. Magnepans cost less but the amplifiers available for them are more than I can afford. My solution: add a stage of amplification using a pair of 1000 Volt power supplies, radio station transmitter tubes, off-the-shelf output transformers and let the 345 triodes drive the grids of the radio station transmitter tubes. This is more than enough power for Magnepans and Mr. and Mrs. Dillard thought the pictures of it I took were the wildest looking thing they ever saw. But it took me several months putting up acoustical treatments and testing positions to get the Magnepans to sound right. Now I catch hell on other internet sites from two directions, SET purists denounce giving up sensitive horn loaded speakers which only need 245's or 2A3's to drive them because flea power and sensitive speakers are the one and only true faith. From the other direction comes someone from Bulgaria who calls the 833-A, my favorite triode, wimpy compared to their pair of monoblocks using GM 100's which are close to one meter tall compared to my puny quart jar-sized 833-A's.The lesson is don't worry about what others think about your choices in speakers and amplifiers and enjoy the sportsmanship you need for others whose tastes are different from yours. |
One thing to be aware of when listening to Vandersteen powered bass models at a dealer is where they set contour or Q at... and why ? .7 and slightly below is lean very flat low bass. Want a better rock speaker, dial it towards .8 easy to do..... back to our regularly scheduled duel..... hopefully the OP is still having fun on the quest!!!! jim |
at risk of exposing my Bose post as a troll attempt, I'm in Oklahoma.... I have some videos on youtube: Here is latest setup..... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KdrMlwV1Qu0 This one is from when I had the Studio 2s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rANy5pZJl7Q |
Hi, I have owned Vandy 3A Sig's (my first nice speakers) and then B&W 802N. Recently I shopped for new speakers for a new house. I was super excited to audition the Vandy Quatros, and my lady friend LOVED the look of the Quatros and the idea of no subs (she liked the way they sounded before she even had heard them!). We travelled to a VA dealer who acted like they were a no brainer at list price to order today. Well, we were both unimpressed. Bass not as good as good subs and just plain didn't like the sound. It was through good equipment by a dealer who knew how to instal and set them up (lots of tape marks on the floor). Our search continued, listening to Kef Ref 3's and 5's, Focal's and Sonus Faber. We loved the ProAc K6's, but settled on a used pair of Revel Studio 2's. Love them. Yes, fairly inefficient, but smooth and balanced and you love them more and more as you listen. I use a pair of REL Carbon Limited Subs and they improved not only the bass but imaging and overall sound as well. Plus, no fancy crossovers or additional equipments as in the Quatro's. I still have my N802's in my basement system and still enjoy them, but not as much as the Revel's. |
Look, if you’re going to compare a Magnepan, compare the 20.7 to the Quattro. That will be more of a horse race. Still cheaper than the Quattro but within $1K of each other I believe. I liked the Quattro ALOT and came very close to buying them in an exotic wood (I purchased Thiels from the same dealer 12 years ago also in a custom wood). I was auditioning numerous other speakers including Magicos and Von Schweikert at higher price points. The thing about Magnepans is that I really do feel like you have to have a fairly deep room so that you can bring them 5-6’ out from the front wall to really get them to sing. I have them 6’ out from my front wall and I’m having diffusion panels built to hang all across that front wall. The larger the room up to say 25 x 35, the better the 20.7’s will sound. If you haven’t heard the 20.7’s they do BASS in a way that speakers farther down the line simply can’t do: powerful deep and accurate. It requires alot from your powerful high current power amp to get them there but they are astonishing top to bottom when properly set up with the right electronics. For classical music, their soundstaging is unsurpassed in my opinion. That is with the possible exception of the big Sound Labs (I’ve had smaller Sound Labs so I’m guessing that the top end of that line would also be astonishingly coherent and quick top to bottom and quite likely even better. |
it's very difficult and arbitrary to even find something you really like. so i see no point in listening to even more expensive speakers .the trio ct looks really nice in ebony if it's too pricey try a second hand pair of quatros or older vandersteens. you can get a 10 year old flagship at the price of a current entry level speaker. |
I love mcreyn's comment .... I don't claim to be an expert on why a speaker is or isn't great, but you can't argue with success, that includes respect from the industry itself, not only music critics, which we all know, are like opinions ... you know the saying. So when I read comments that say someone, like Richard Vandersteen, is doing it "wrong", I have to wonder. kenjit, |
Richard Vandersteen has spent his whole professional life perfecting use of first-order crossovers to get exactly that unmistakeably musical voicing out of his designs. I had (still have/in storage) his flagship model from the 1980s, the Vandersteen 4s. I heard plenty of other speakers (a few in my home, many @dealers), but these were the ones that most approximated real, live music. Everything sounded so "right," so realistic. Yes, first-order crossovers trade that last lick of ultimate dynamics & punch; and yes, they force drivers to work hard near their band-limits. But he chooses drivers & crossover points that work best with those cross-overs, and the man obviously knows what he's doing. IMO it's lunacy to form a grudge against this or that design based on some theoretical prejudice. |
I have heard most of the Vandersteen speakers at both dealers and at shows and wasn’t that impressed. The Quatro’s, 5’s and 7’s sound very good but not for the money when comparing to other speakers. I’ve met Richard at a private dealer showing and he demoed a few pairs of his speakers up to the 5’s so they were setup properly and used quality components. I’ve also listened to all the higher end Maggie’s including the 30.7’s at 1 of the tour stops, at friends houses with the 20.7’s and 3.x’s and wasn’t impressed. The best Maggie I have heard was the 20.1 at a dealer friend of mine, it could have been because of the Mcintosh source equipment. I prefer the Revel’s, Ushers, Wilson’s, Raidho, Totem, Magico and a few others. |
Audioman is right about true Maggie sound (several posts back). About a year ago, I auditioned the 1.7's and while they were good, moving up to the 3.7i's with the terrific tweeter took the listening to a whole new level ! Some of the best treble response I've ever heard ! What I couldn't believe though is that the audio store had them connected to (IMHO) mid-fi equipment. When I asked them to move them to hi-fi equipment, they reluctantly did but of course, what a difference ! Why an audio store wouldn't demo a great speaker with comparable equipment is beyond me ! |
Another direct sell brand to consider is Philharmonic Audio Dennis Murphy makes some outstanding sounding speakers high quality parts at reasonable prices. Having owned Maggie 1.7i with a Parasoumd Halo Integrated I thought it was a great sounding system combo, just add a sub if you need real deep bass. I have since moved up the Maggie line. |
@kingbarbuda your comments regarding placement are spot on (some guidance is also provided in the manual). Regarding the tweets, I replaced the cheap stock fuses with Synergistic Blue fuses with notable improvement. I hear good things about the Mike Powell silver upgrades - although I think it’s important to first make sure the amp is well suited for the Maggies (i.e. high power/current). Clipping would do damage to the speakers and the fuses are the only protection. Would like to here more about the Mye Stands - probably add greater stability. |
...but with 11 bands of analog EQ you can tune any powered bass Vandersteen FOR the room you are in. I recently moved my pair 9” and reran the EQ, not massive differences but certainly a few tweaks, THEN listen and set level and Q. BTW a nice review of the Quattro CT and matching 5 high pass amplifiers in this month Stereophile, including measurements built on a tower of salt.... fun, enjoy the music.... |
Fantastic suggestions. if I am seriously pondering quattros, there have to be a lot of other speakers to listen to. The salk and spatial audio intrigue me. But difficult to hear any of these. FWIW, I have a mild case of OCD and research things, especially when spending a good chunk of change. maybe I need to visit all the rooms in Vegas one year when they have all these toys on display. Take lots of notes. |
Call Jim Salk at Salk Audio. His Song3 Encores at $6,000 sound incredible. Listened to them at RMAF and they were by far the best speakers under $20,000. Jim sells direct, but uses the best speakers and his cabinet workmanship is custom and really high quality. Tell him Larry Edwards sent you. He is incredibly nice and knowledgeable. |
Once again, I will point out that HiFi Buys and all other dealers are wonderful, but until you hear these or ANY items in YOUR ROOM, you are simply winnowing down your prospects rather than making an informed decision. Please remember, YOUR ROOM is the most important variable in ANY sound reproduction system. Until you hear both there, you had a great day at a good dealer and heard some wonderful music. Other than that, I have no idea what will sound good at your home. Do you? Cheers, Richard |
The new Spatial audio labs x5, and x3 have world class Beyma tweeter- mid and excellent German dipole midrange, and powered sub in these great open baffle speakers in the $6k, $7500range they shoot Waay above that and free delivery,and a 60 day audition return policy they are that good. check these out ihave owned all types Maggie ml, pure audio project these are a a Rare breed these latest from Clayton Shaw are only a few months old on audio circle a very good utube video,or utube. Check them out I am saving as we speak ,and because they are powered for the sub 8 ohms 97 dB efficient !! |
IF you want the Maggie’s to do what Quattro can do on the low end, you are in to subs and the right amplifiers to drive the main panels, total system cost is about the same .... kenjitholidayinn let us know when Wilson, Magico exceed 250 K speaker pairs sold, your idea of “niche” may need redefining. Steep slopes with a singular focus on frequency response are easy, I did those in 1980, graduating to time and phase are another matter. But a few intrepid souls have worked this vein, some deceased but legendary- can you name them from your position of internet obscurity? |
Besides comparing a $2200 pair of speakers to a pair of $15,000 speakers, it would be best albeit difficult to compare the Vandys to a higher priced pair of Maggies but with the following tweaks to optimize the Maggies. These would include mounting them on MyeStands, installing the Mike Powell silver upgrades to the stock jumpers and fuses. Plus Maggies require more power, proper placement away from the rear wall and angulation to optimize the sweet spot with regard to the listening position. All of these tweaks bring out the best in Maggies. They have in my 1.7i pair. |
