Boy, Oh Boy! Towshend!

As mentioned, I'll be getting the speaker bars.  Though this will be on a shag rug, so I'm not sure how that will affect things.

On the current footer springs, I'm sure some of what I'm hearing is due to decoupling the speakers from the floors.  Though raising the speakers may have also influenced the tonal balance, which does seem more airy and bright sounding, and a bit thinner overall.

vinylshadow-  

My podiums should arrive soon so I will measure but I'm guessing they will be 1"+ closer to the floor. 

Podiums have level adjustment both top and Botton. Together you can probably get close to an inch. Or you can do like I did and put a coaster under each corner. You can also put something between the speaker and the Podium platform. There's all kinds of options.

BTW, you know how we audiophiles like to sit around dreaming about certain gear combinations?

I've had one on my mind for a while: 


Devore O/96 speakers combined with Townshend pods.

The reason is:  I love the big, rich, alive organic sound of those speakers.However, they do sound on some material more boxy than many other speakers.   It leaves me dreaming about what they'd sound like if I constructed a special stand for them, on which to place the Townshend bars or pods, for the speakers to sit on, keeping them the same height as their original Devore stands.

Might it end up pushing them even further to "wow" territory, where they do all those wonderful things, but disappear even more than normal?

OR...it could be it would end up ruining something inherent in their sound.

Dunno.  But the mystery and intrigue has me dreaming....

Good feedback!

My Mezzo speakers currently have Stillpoint cones on a metal disc. I have a feeling that with the Townshend podiums, my speakers will be closer to the tile then they are with the cones/disc.

My podiums should arrive soon so I will measure but I'm guessing they will be 1"+ closer to the floor.

I have found in my own experience that anytime I change the distance from the bottom of a floor standing speaker to the floor, the sound will change. Increased space usually decreases bass. It can be used to clean up excess bass, but can also have detrimental effects on the sound. I’m a believer in the manufacturer having already done this experiment and like to follow their guidance.

I have found the same with components. Sometimes the stock footers have the overall best sound.  I assume that is how they are tested and voiced. 

prof, Your imaging will be at least as good. The only thing is Podiums add another level to positioning. Each corner has to be free to move side to side as well as up and down. This makes them a little more bother to get everything just right. Once done though getting them perfectly level is a breeze, and they do stay put. 

Also I think the solidity to the sound you are missing, you will probably realize wasn't so much sound as vibrations transmitting through the floor up into your legs and butt. The feeling with springs is different, you feel the bass more in the chest and body. There's also a hardness that goes away, and this too diminishes the sense of solidity.

I think you will probably find however that there is so much greater sense of real instrumental textures that it is easy to adapt. Also it seems to me at any rate that some of the slam that went away with plain springs comes back with Podiums. Not all, it will never be the same, but for me anyway it sure was easy to adapt and prefer. The whole presentation with Podiums just feels so much more right and real.

True about Satchmo. I haven't listened to it since I bought it from Classic Records way back when. I am absolutely overloaded with vinyl I haven't played.

Patience Grasshopper.

@millercarbon Glad you mentioned Satchmo. I've been listening to a lot of music by him lately. I was listening to an interview by one of the guys at Mosaic Records while streaming WWOZ, and learned a little tidbit of information. It seems that you knew you were in with the musicians once they began insulting you. A common insult was to call someone Bucket-mouth or Satchel Mouth, with Louis it just stuck... Satchmo. Now we know!

That's very encouraging millercarbon.
The thing is I had recently tweaked my speaker/listening position and had arrived at a new level of awe-inspiring imaging and solidity to the sound.   As I said, any steps backwards are hard to swallow.   But I can imaging giving up a bit to get some of that delicious transparency and detail I'm hearing.

If you like what you're hearing now Townshend will be a revelation. Everything you are hearing now, only due to the damping you will get back some of the slam impact feel, probably a bit more extension, and find an amazing improvement in being able to differentiate the characteristic tone and timbre of each instrument. Sax in particular is wonderful, the full body of the horn combined with the reedy zing of the mouthpiece is rendered so much more correct it is hard to believe. Clarinet, violins, horns, ditto.   

I have a fair amount of that kind of music and find myself far more drawn to it now than ever before, something I am sure is due to everything sounding so much more like what it really is. Satchmo Plays King Oliver now, holy smokes!  

Podiums are the best, probably because the platform is so well engineered. This is evident even during unpacking, when you will notice the constrained layer damped material is dense and extremely dead. But they are all based on fundamentally the same technology and components- the air damped bellows spring pod - and so a lot has to do with the specific application. The 8 hours time diff is a hassle but it might be worth a call to Townshend to talk with John Hannant. He knows this stuff inside out and has been a huge help to me, and others here as well.

I just put the spring footers under my Thiel speakers again (like the Nobsound, but a different brand which has the springs actually fixed, not loose).

Absolutely stunning, yet again, in many ways.  The changes it registers among the entire frequency range is just amazing.  It's like the "noise floor" of the speaker has gone down I can effortlessly hear the most minute details.  All sorts of tracks sound different because I realize I'm hearing now audible subtle reverbs that weren't there before.

Saxophone tracks become all the more real sounding, where I can hear that familiar clicking/ tapping of the keys (from when I played sax...my dad played sax too).  The texture of the reed all the more evident.

And the high frequencies and air seemed to have gone through the roof.Chimes, drum cymbals now have an utterly pure realism, of the type I was often seeking.  It's just crazy.

As I have mentioned before, my main gripe with the spring footers has been a subtraction of "feel" and impact to the sound. I really seek a sense of density to the presentation of my system, so any losses there can be annoying.  Which is why the footers eventually tend to come back off. 


But the more I'm listening the more I'm liking, and getting addicted to things I can hear only with the footers on.   And yes I've lost some solidity to the sound, but there still is some nice impact.
This, yet again, tells me I will be springing for the "real deal" Townshend speaker bars, at some point.

@vinylshadow - I would talk to Peter at Symposium. He takes the time to understand the exact application and make a recommendation. He is very honest and actually told me his solution couldn’t help my turntable because it was so light unless I put counterweights on top of the plinth of my turntable, which would not have worked for me.

when I decided to treat my speakers, phono stage and amp, I went with Symposium, with a stealth segue for the speakers and roller blocks for the amps. I noticed the amount of improvement most with the turntable, next with the speakers and lastly with the amps. He was much less expensive than Townshend pods for the amps (they wouldn’t have fit under my phono stage anyhow) and for the bars Townshend proposed under the speakers (and that would have also raised the height of the drivers which I didn’t want to do). So there is logical reasons for each decision. Both companies make excellent products and in most cases, both will do a very nice job, just make sure it fits your applications and budget. You can always add more to these treatments from Symposium- not so much with Townshend.

I like Symposium’s accessibility since I live in the US and can reach Peter easily via telephone. Talking to Max Townshend is not as easy as he is experimenting/developing in the lab more it seems. He has created a wide variety of products over the years, all excellent from what I have read. Peter has been laser focused on isolation/vibration control since 1992.

@sokogear
Due to space limitations in rack spaces under my Rogue tube phono stage, Classe processor and 1 of my Model 12 monoblock amps I'm going to get 3 5/8" Svelte Shelves, as pods are too tall.....

I could fit taller shelves under the phono stage and monoblock but the Svelte Shelf looks like it will do the job well.

I saw a review for the Rogue Audio Ares Magnum and the reviewer had a Symposium Ultra under the Rogue. But it was from 2003 and the Svelte Shelf might be new and improved and the way to go now?

@sidog1460

I can help. I just ordered the Seismic isolation corners(and speaker podiums, turntable platform and pods) from John at Townshend.
I wouldn't think the 3 legs would matter...You can email John at Townshend if you want. He is so helpful.

Your dealer is correct. The isolation corners will "float" your rack and isolate your components and your rack from external vibrations down to 3Hz. That would be adequate to stop right there for many people.
However, I am taking it one step further in that I will be placing pods under all components(and my sub) to isolate all individual components from internal vibrations.

I have a question for someone knowledgeable about the Townsend Corners for rack isolation. I was told by a dealer that if I bought the corners for my rack, I wouldn’t need to upgrade my twenty plus year old Target rack. He stated the Corners would be all that I needed. For those who have tried the Townsend Corners would you agree or disagree with this comment? Also my Target rack only has three legs, so would this matter at all?

@vinylshadow - see what Peter at Symposium says about the amps. I have my amp and phono stage on Roller Block Jrs because they drain and isolate. He calls everything vibration control, because that is what you are doing in either situation.

Since my components only weigh 11 and 29 pounds respectively, the Jrs, work and I only need 3 of them each. 3 points define a plane and will provide stability. 

Now, just to muddy (no pun intended) the waters, as MC says, there is always more you can do. You can put a platform under or on top of the roller blocks, depending on the situation (under for turntables and amps, on top of for speakers) to add additional treatment. It is not black and white, and you can go all the way up to platforms that are the most effective that cost > $2K. There are even levels within the roller block types by changing the bearings. They have increasing levels of purity and performance. I think all his roller blocks now are being delivered with the mid level ones made of Tungsten Carbide, and you can get what he calls super balls that have purity down to the millionths of the particles. Even the Tungsten ones feel incredible solid and perfectly spherical.

To give you an extreme example, a friend of mine (who happened to introduce me to Peter) got a very expensive turntable and he asked Peter for the ideal treatment for it in his situation. He has the big Roller Blocks with the super balls on top of a Segue platform sitting on top of a Segue Iso platform. In my mind, severe overkill, audible difference with each additional treatment, perhaps, worth the 5-6 times the cost of just roller block jrs with the tungsten carbide, not in my mind. But Peter calls that set up perfect, and that's what my friend was aiming for. I don't know how many thousands he has spent on vibration control with Symposium and Townshend (probably 1/2 of what my TOTAL stereo investment is), but he tells me he wishes he could do more, but is limited by the vertical space where his components are placed. Everyone (except maybe Mike Lavigne) has space, spouse who limited my acoustical treatment options, or financial limitations. As Clint Eastwood says, "A man has to know his limitations".

Bottom line, ask Peter for his opinion for best bang for the buck for everything you want to do and he'll ask you questions about the environment. Then he will give you options and recommendations and his best combo deal and save you some money shipping it all together. However, as he told me, most people start with one thing, are pleasantly surprised and keep going on and on. He told me one guy yelled at him because he had to keep buying. That why he even sells bearing upgrades from basic to Tungsten carbide to super balls. You can go nuts with this stuff, but as long as you can appreciate and afford the improvements, go for it. I went from turntable to speakers to phono stage to amp. Power conditioner is the only thing that doesn't float on my wood credenza (wood is best for vibration drainage under a platform or roller blocks) or wall shelf for my turntable. I don't want to have that floating because I use it to put records on when sorting them and when the components move when I touch them,I see the wires move in the back and it makes my OCD tendencies flare up, even though they stabilize almost instantaneously. Seeing all those power cords moving would drive me nuts. Plus, some wires are very precariously positioned in the back and moving them in some cases can make my speaker cables move and hit the floor. A big no-no.

Good luck and enjoy the dramatic improvements.

The space is much greater than 3/16". The true available space is from the shelf it sits on to the actual chassis bottom. Most components are on factory feet that are at least 1/2" high. So it gets tight but you really probably have about half an inch available. This is probably just enough for some Nobsound springs. I mean just the springs. Not the whole setup with the footer holding the springs, just the bare springs alone. 

Best part about this is, won't cost you one thin dime. Get your Nobsound springs for the motor or whatever, you will have some springs left over after setting them up for that load. Take the leftover springs, squeeze them down and put them one at a time under the Classe. Start with one in each corner, just keep adding until the thing starts to float. Could be wrong but I bet there is just enough room for this to work. Don't cost nothin' but time. What have you got to lose? 😉

Understood. So placing the isolator under the amp is best.
As far as the Rogue tube phono stage and Vertere motor drive, they will be set close to each other in a rack shelf. Seems like the most economical thing for both is to put both on a Symposium Segue ISO platform. And a consideration is, that platter will be what separates both components from my Classe SSP-800 processor/DAC in the rack space below them. So the ISO platter will block any vibration etc from the Classe, if that does in fact happen.

Although come to think of it, a Townshend platter would likely work as well provided the pods can be centered on the racks steel bars; whereas the ISO platter is flat across the bottom and will certainly sit on the bars.

I was hoping to put isolation under the Classe but there is only 3/16" of available space above the top of it.

The main benefit or theory is to allow the component to move on its own, in other words in isolation. A lot of vibration is generated within the component itself. Even with amps. With Pods under the rack the amp excites the rack, which while isolated from the floor is still going to vibrate thanks to the amp, and feed this right back into the amp. Pods directly under the amp will better isolate the amp.

Symposium Iso uses a conical spring damped with foam, similar to Townshend spring damped with an air valve. The Townshend design seems more elegant to me but the proof is in the pudding and I’ve not tried Symposium to know for sure exactly in what ways they differ.

As far as turntable isolation, is there any difference or betterment between a Symposium Platform and a Townshend platform? Whatever I put under my Basis turntable will also have the separate belt motor on it. The belt motor for my Vertere MG-1 is built into the table.

@millercarbon For my model 12 monoblock amp that is on a Sound Anchors rack w/spikes on discs, behind a Mezzo speaker and near my sub, put pods directly under my amps and power supplies on the top of the stand? Or take off the spikes and put 4 pods, 1 below each leg of the stand.

Then I guess what to put under my Rogue Ares Magnum tube phono drive.

Would anything be necessary under my Vertere MG-1 motor drive that sends the 33/45 signal to my Vertere MG-1 turntables motor? The box is so light I could probably center it over 1 pod. Maybe 2 to be safe. And 2 under my Rogue phono drive as it is sort of light as well?

@steakster - wow- you know a hell of a lot more than me about Symposium. My thoughts with my speakers on Segues are two fold- 1) they get rid of/drain internal speaker noise while providing some isolation, and 2, I did not want my speakers being unstable in any way as they are tall and thin. I don’t want them to float like my components do. Peter had to custom size my Segues to have about 2-21/2 “ around the bottom to add stability.

Not sure what you mean by air borne vibrations. The internal vibrations of components are drained by roller blocks or platforms as are external vibrations from the floor.

@vinylshadow- glad to hear you will check with Peter at Symposium. IMHO though, the turntable isolation should be addressed first, but as MC says, it’s and and and and and......you can never correct noise emanating from the source. That noise just gets magnified down the chain.

I don't think amps vibrate on their own, do they?

They do. Everything does.

If you have the budget for it I think you will find Pods make a big difference under the amp. My Melody is on a 150lb slab of granite, which in turn is on BDR Cones, and it has BDR Round Things screwed into both sides of the chassis, and the whole thing is on a BDR Shelf. Pretty darn good I thought. Then I replaced one set of Cones with Nobsound. This was a lot better. Then I upgraded from Nobsound to Pods. This was hugely better! 

So even though already on a lot of really good vibration control the Pods still made a really nice improvement. 

Went through pretty much the same course of upgrades with my phono stage and motor controller, with pretty much the same results. They were all extensively tweaked out and in good shape yet Pods made them all even better.  

@sokogear
I will look into Symposium for rack component isolation for sure. I just need to get my thoughts together on the Townshend isolators first. But I think I have.
Speaker bars with pods under my Mezzo Utopia's and isolation corners under my Sound Anchors rack(thanks tvad). That knocks vibrations to everything down to 3Hz. Just need individual component isolation next.

My left Rowland Model 12 monoblock amp behind my left Mezzo and near my sub is on its own Sound Anchors amp stand with spikes. The amp and the connected separate power supply are both made of solid, machined alumunum. 30 pounds each. Do they need isolation? If so, I could remove the stand spikes and put each stand leg bottom on a Pod? That would be half the price of 4 isolation corners. I don't think amps vibrate on their own, do they?
Isolation platters under the turntables I'm not sure what to do there. Because of the dimensions of my 2 t.t.'s and their dustcovers, they may be the last thing I do.

Thanks to everyone who help me coalesce my pathway. Almost there.

It was good to see a Foam used as Construction Layer for Isolation on the Symposium Products.
I have been using various foams with different compressive strengths for multiple years, these are the most impressive Materials I have used to date as a layer in a construction of materials to produce a support plinth.

I have a Pre Amp seatd directely onto a aerated highly compressible foam, to a point load the foam offers almost Zero Resistence to compressing.
This support lets the Pre' deliver a very clean and detailed presentation.
To date adding any other materials, to be used in combination with the Aerated Foam will show a smearing of the finest details.
If a air flow is not needed to enter the casing from the underside and the unlevel seating of device is not too off putting, this method is worth a investigation.   

@vinylshadow - I don't know why you are not calling Peter at Symposium. He has one product called a svelte shelf that is really thin (I think a half inch or so) that might be perfect for you. It isolates and removes vibrations. He could be the answer to your problems, and if he can't, he'll tell you that. Rollerblocks are I think 1.3".

Check it out:

https://symposiumusa.com/main.shtml

Interesting...I wonder if the Nobsounds would have a positive, long term effect on individual components or fall into the same situation as your speaker experience. And pods are 1000x better than the springs. 


millercarbon would know best. But it sounded like components improved significantly with the springs. 

Sadly for me, John at Townshend just told me that at their shortest the Pods are 2". I need 1.5" so the springs are my only option for racked components. 

I can swing Pods under my sub but, well, I don't know what to do!

As I've mentioned elsewhere I have the Nobsound spring footers, tried them under my Thiels.


I was blown away by the effect at first: the speakers just disappeared and soundstaged even better, a sense of distortion was reduced, more insight in to recording etc.


My main problem was it came with a lowering of dynamics, palpability, density and punch to the sound.  It became more ghostly, more electrostatic.   So I choose to generally not use the footers.


But the GOOD qualities from the experience intrigue me so much I want to try the Townshend bars, fingers crossed that it manages a best of both worlds - the speaker disappearing act but without the same hit on punch and dynamics.   The Nobsound springs are a pretty crude take on spring isolation, whereas the Townshend are much more refined for their purpose.

Maybe. Maybe not.

Each air shim is rated for 300#. So, use two. Done.

Great idea...I’ll need to swing the rack out 2 -3 feet to change components etc and to mount the isolation corners so I can use those sliders on the pods so I can slide the rack along the tile and grout lines and back against the wall. Awesome.

@tvad 
Thanks for the air shim link! wow. That would be perfect as there is barely enough room even when the rack is slid out a bit for me to get back there. The rack itself is 300 pounds so I'll need to remove the 100 pound center speaker first. But lifting a corner might be easier and I just need to lift like 3/4" I'm psyched.
As far as my speakers, no room for podiums so I'll get the bars. I'll tilt the back forward, remove the spikes, and put one bar under and then tilt the speaker backward, remove the front spikes, and put the other bar under. This way I can keep the position the speakers are in now. But those sliders are so inexpensive I may get them just to have handy. 

@millercarbon
"I feel hot and cold(can't explain) yeah down to my soul yeah(can't explain) is lyrics from the Who's I Can't Explain! 

I am going to ask John at Townshend how tall his pods are as I only have 1.5" for certain components. But honestly, would the Nobsound springs give enough vibration control to individual components? Lets say 75% of what the Pods would do?

I don't know if I want to spend $1100+ on speaker bars for my sub.  Springs might have to do. 

Buying isolation platters for my turntables that already have suspension systems.... Gotta think that one over. 

Pods would raise the height of the tables. Had custom acrylic dustcovers made for both. They might not fit over all the way down with pods. And 4 pods on 4 pods seems unstable. 

Leverage will work(a dolly) under the accessible front corners and left rear corner pretty easily. Getting leverage to the right rear corner will be super tough. I wonder if I can get a car jack to fit. There's about 1.5" of space below the base bars....I only need to raise each corner about 3/4".

Even if you don't have a trolley jack to lift it, I recall it was plenty heavy (I haven't scrolled back up to see) speaking of leverage, maybe you could use a simple bar and block with the help of a friend to lever it up, chock it, get your isolator under it and remove the chock?
Be sure and if you do use some lever bar with a block as a pivot point, use something soft not to scratch the underside of your pretty and expensive rack.

My review mentions something similar. A lot of familiar music has bits I was looking forward, expecting a certain sound, only to be underwhelmed. That could account for your cold feeling. Took a while to realize the expected sound was all added harmonic resonance and/or hardness from the old stuff. When every instrument sounds more like its natural character, sax is more clearly sax, guitar more clearly guitar, on and on, none of them sounds colored just clear, then you know it is good. That is probably your down in the soul part.

All of the things you are talking about will work great. It does little good to worry much about which will be better. I am a low-hanging fruit kind of guy. I would think more about which will be easier. The rack sounds really hard, turntables easier, and yes Pods will be better, turntable suspension notwithstanding. 

Your rack space is so tight you might want to do the rack in spite of the effort. You know what a house jack is? Screw jack? So you get a couple great big nuts, short length of threaded rod, make a custom screw jack sized just for this one task. Pretty clever, eh?😁

@millercarbon
I understand and thank you. So now there are several considerations about the rack isolation. And what is most important. For me, it's my 2 turntables, and their tonearms and cartridges and my tube phono drive(which there is room for pods). I don't think my Vertere turntable motor drive that supplies the 33 and 45 rpm signal to the turntable motor needs additional isolation. Or at least expensive isolation? Maybe springs? The t.t.'s are up on top and have their own suspension systems. They may be ok...No room for anything with my Classe Processor unfortunately. Only an 1/8" or so.... For my DVD/CD player, only about 1.5" or so room. Currently with an air bladder platform with a leak undeneath. So not functional. Might as well remove it.

As far as the Nobsound's, I was only considering those for the Sub. If I only use the sub for home theater(or low volume bass add on for 2 channel), would the springs be satisfactory enough?My Mezzo's bass is really good. But maybe with proper isolation, the sub might be worth using fuller in 2 channel. I don't know. I never turn it up more than 5% or so.

Leverage will work(a dolly) under the accessible front corners and left rear corner pretty easily. Getting leverage to the right rear corner will be super tough. I wonder if I can get a car jack to fit. There's about 1.5" of space below the base bars....I only need to raise each corner about 3/4".

So the isolation corners will isolate my rack components from my speakers and maybe my sub. Fingers crossed that my turntables well designed suspension systems mitigate their own vibrations.

After the isolation corners, then it's a question of where to place Pods. Or maybe Nobsound springs? They are 1.49"(I cannot find information on how tall the Pods are) so they will just barely fit under my Marantz DVD/CD player. Are they worth putting under my Node 2i streamer box? Or Rowland center speaker mono amp? Or P.I. Audio UberBuss power conditioner? Or Dish network satellite box? Or my Rowland Model 12 monoblock amps?

I just pumped up the Townshend Seismic Sink that was under my Basis turntable and it has not sunk. Yet. Let's see tomorrow.

My system currently sounds so great now.

With isolation- I feel hot and cold(can't explain).... Yeah down in my soul yeah(can't explain).

As I previously mentioned, I would call Peter at Symposium Acoustics and see wheat he thinks. He talks about “best bang for the buck” all the time. He might recommend roller blocks, platforms, or some combo, and if he can’t fit, he won’t force it.

Well first, John is right- as far as he goes. Yes if the whole rack is on Pods then everything on the rack is isolated. But remember it is not just isolation from the environment, it is also isolating each component from everything else. The difference is each component generates its own internal vibrations. Very important.  

So even with the rack isolated there will still be improvement isolating each individual component. 

This is not an either/or thing. Building a system is all and/and/and. And. And andandand....  Neverending and's. Usually what happens is we run out of money way before we run out of and's to do. The rack is your only option since there is no room, and it is probably better than doing only whatever few components you can. Again: do what you can. Don't sweat the small stuff! 

Nobsound can handle way more than 140lbs. It is more like 50lbs per unit, or 200lbs altogether. At 140lbs you probably only need 5 or 6 of the 7 springs.  

In terms of cost-effectiveness, the main difference is Townshend is superbly damped while Nobsound isn't damped at all. Because of this the Pods, Bars or whatever will have a lot better tone, way better truth of timbre, and improved slam compared to Nobsound. All these are much more noticeable in midrange and treble where most of this information comes from and where our hearing is most sensitive. Way down low in the bass is always harder to hear.    

That is why I added springs first where I did, and waited until later to move from springs to Pods under my subs. Will be migrating from springs to Pods under my subs next so we will know soon enough. Meantime I would say if you have to cut corners anywhere use springs under the subs and Pods, etc everywhere else.  

As for getting them under the rack, a picture's worth a thousand words. Meantime I have four choice words for you: leverage is your friend.

@millercarbon @rixthetrick 

Well, apparently Townsend isolation corners WILL isolate every single component in my equipment rack. Got it from the source!
I asked John at Townshend: "As far as the isolation corners isolating my equipment rack down to 3Hz, what about the individual components. Will they also be isolated down to 3Hz? As I cannot fit isolation pods under most of the components."John: Yes everything on top of the rack is Isolated

Me: Just to clarify, when you said "Yes everything on top of the rack is Isolated" did you mean, all 9 components within each rack shelf of the Sound Anchors rack or just the components(turntables and tonearm etc) on the top of the rack. John: Once your rack is floating on our Seismic Corners everything that is on the rack is Isolated down to 3hz.------------
So what do you think MC? Pretty economical way to isolate 9 components vs 36 isolation pods!
The isolation corners and 4 speaker bars would do the trick. John also recommended speaker bars on my sub. However my sub is 18" wide?
But I'm thinking, getting 4 Nobsound springs(if they can handle 140 pounds) would be a much more economical way to proceed if they would not affect the Townshend isolation. 4 isolation pods would cost less than half as much as speaker bars...Thoughts?
The only issue here is getting to the right rear corner of my equipment rack. Unless I pull the rack  way out away from the back and side wall(see imgur dot com slash a slash FEI0zPQ to see the rack and walls) and successfully! slide the corner back in place over the tile and grout lines, no way can the rack corner be lifted to get the spike into the small isolation corner spike hole. Even if I follow John's advice about removing all heavy components and center speaker first...It's still 300+ pounds!

Seems you have options. Having a trial period to listen to products - that's been my suggestion all along.

Couple things- all things heard cannot be measured, and all things measured cannot be heard. That doesn’t mean to ignore seismographs, etc, but it is not the be all and end all.

MC is absolutely right about vibrations coming from the components or speakers themselves. That’s why vibration platforms under amps, and other components in addition to speakers work so surprisingly well. I was amazed at how something called roller blocks under my phono stage improved the sound. They drain internal noise and isolate components. Under speakers, platforms drain internal noise, so regardless of how dead your tile is, there is still distortion inside the speaker cabinet. It seems to make everything sound clearer. You may think you lose bass, but it is distortion,  and what is left is real.

if you are in the US, I recommend you speak with Peter at Symposium Acoustics. He’s been creating solutions since 1992. Roller blocks, platforms, racks, etc. He doesn’t advertise, and goes by word of mouth. You can talk to him live and he loves this stuff.

He is also refreshingly honest. When I was doing my initial isolation work on my turntable, he told me his iso platform would not address my turntable isolation issues because it only weighs 10 pounds without putting counterweights on top of my plinth, which was impossible. So I went with a Townshend platform that did the trick with their lightest pods under their platform. It worked great. When I went next to my speakers, draining the noise worked best with symposium  Segue platforms. You can add roller blocks under them if you want, but once again Peter was so honest-by saying I may not want to elevate the tweeters an  inch+ and just go with the Segues. The Segues are the same height as the spikes I removed from my speakers.

Next was the phono stage, then my amp, and the only thing left is my power conditioner, but I need one thing that doesn’t move when I touch it for when I am organizing records. Everything floats, so when I see that my OCD tendencies make me nervous. Conditioner is on top of Herbie’s Tenderfeet, which do a little, but nothing like pods or roller blocks.

I also agree with MC about not worrying about every little thing in terms of what to do when. Every time I do something, it sounds better. I am amazed. No stereo salesmen ever mention this stuff, and it is very impactful.

Peter says in his experience, believe it or not, the biggest improvement he’s seen is with CD players! Too bad I don’t use one, but if I would have kept mine and used his products, I might not have disconnected it. No disrespect to John at Townshend, but he is not the designer of the products, and when I did have the opportunity to talk to Max Townshend, it was night and day. It is not easy, especially with them being on the other side of the pond for me. He is nice and responsive, but is very salesy and tends to exaggerate a bit. Max and Peter are very scientific and set expectations very modestlly,  which makes the improvements all the more surprising. Peter will take the time to help you. He even answered a question I had about my turntable mat even though he never pursued a solution for that (he thought about it at one time, but was too busy).

@rixthetrick

If I have my phone on the speaker and stomp on my tile, there are no vibrations registered on the phone. If I'm blasting music and place my phone on the tile in front of the speaker, there are no vibrations on the Seismograph. My tile is bonded to the concrete foundation of my house. It is dead solid and silent for vibrations.
But, if I'm cranking the music and put my phone on the speaker, there is a lot of vibration. On the rack where the tt's will sit, there is a small amount of vibration. Mostly on the Z plane. But will that get mitigated by my Basis tables silicone filled pods where my table can shimmy like speakers do on the Townshend podiums? My Vertere MG-1 table is a suspended table as well. Millercarbon's table itself does not look to be suspended. But it is on an isolation platform.

If I understand correctly though, isolating the speakers with Townshend bars will help the speakers sound much better. Is that correct?

@millercarbon makes a point. Even if my rack is on isolation corners, can the individual components still vibrate within its shelf? That would be important to address. John from Townshend made it sound like But, there is no room under my Classe processor/DAC or Model 12 for pods. The Classe takes up nearly the whole rack opening.
So the isolation corners seem like my only option for the equipment on my rack. The right back corner will be a bear to get one under.

The Mezzo Utopia's bass is solid. And down to 35Hz. 92.5dB sensitivity.

So I have no choice but to use the isolation bars from left to right. Do they work exactly as good as the Podiums?
Does it count for anything that when I put my phone on the tile right in front of a speaker cranking music, that with a Hamm Seismograph app on, there is absolutely no vibration registered on the tile?

I have not heard the podiums under speakers, the bars work very well.
So the substrate already doesn't move whatsoever? Even with your hand you feel nothing? even on your rack?

Laptop "ate" my first response before it got posted, tried to write it again and just now noticed the second time around I neglected to credit Rick with the bass difference. He let me know to expect this even before it happened. It is one of the ways you can be sure the speaker isolation is working, you feel the bass in your chest and gut more so than in the legs and butt. It is a big strange at first, finding yourself expecting one thing and getting another. Did not take long at all though to know which is better.

Pods, Bars, Platforms and Podiums are all basically the same technology. They all use essentially the same air-damped spring suspension isolation. The main difference is in how they connect. Podiums use a big massive and constrained layer damped plinth. Platforms the plinth is a different shape not as massive. Bars it is a bar and Pods go directly under whatever. Pods are really great bang for the buck, because you are not paying for the constrained layer damped plinth. Also the coating on this stuff is a real high tech durable marvel of a coating! 

Might seem you can do it all in one fell swoop with the rack. For sure that will be an improvement. But there is also a lot of vibration generated within the component itself. I learned this one a long time ago, and it has carried through with everything since. It is even hard to say for sure which is more susceptible, the turntable or CDP or DAC! I know that sounds counterintuitive but I tried Pods first under my turntable and was hard for John to talk me into trying under the amp, but then surprised when it was at least as good under the amp as turntable!

So if it is a budget thing I would do Pods directly under whatever is the most cherished source, and if they are all used pretty evenly then maybe do the rack instead. But we are throwing darts here. There is no wrong answer and it is a lot of work comparing trying to split hairs on which is better at this point.

Nobody believes me when I say this, they look at what I have done and it seems nuts, but I really do say don't sweat the small stuff. When people come over and hear how big a difference some of these things make then they understand. If the difference isn't pretty big I don't bother. Too many things really do make a big difference to waste time fretting over what might be maybe slightly even better.

The guy who I think you mean with bass loss, he had very inefficient Harbeth speakers with a small amp and very little bass to begin with. The thing about bass, a lot of what we experience as bass is vibrations coming through the floor up through the legs and butt. That is where we feel it, legs and butt. Put speakers on Podiums the bass actually has at least as much slam, dynamics and extension. But instead of feeling it in the legs it is all through the air and you feel it in your chest and gut. Whole different thing, much more like real music. But in his case he was loving that legs and butt bass and with nowhere near enough power for real bass he was left feeling a lack of bass. 

Another thing that happens, since the floor is not being excited the same way a lot of what we call room resonance is really the floor and walls vibrating and with Podiums there is so much less of this it is almost like adding tube traps. Mike Lavigne has an absolutely awesome room and coming home after being there the first time it was like mine sucks. Then I got Pods and Podiums and some other stuff, no room treatment at all but after visiting Mike this second time all of a sudden my room was a lot better. Still nowhere near the same league but still seriously better. So you can probably expect a lot more clean bass in the room than you would ever have thought possible. Assuming you are not marginal but starting with adequate bass to begin with you should be fine.

@millercarbon @rixthetrick

Thanks guys...I got a reply from John at Townshend. I sent him the Imgur pics of my speakers and system and he didn't address it specifically but said the following very matter of factly: "Thank you for your enquiry,
We always recommend Isolating your speakers and floating your rack on our Seismic Corners,
I am very happy to supply a pair of our Size 3 Podiums with D Cells for $xxxx. I also recommend floating your stand on our Seismic Corners, can you kindly work out roughly the weight of stand + equipment on top please,  A Set of 4 F Type Seismic Corners will be great which I am very happy to supply for $xxxx. Isolating your Speakers + stand will offer total Isolation down to 3hz."--------After receiving this, I realized that there is barely any peripheral room beyond my speakers corners for the podium exterior. My right speaker is nearly against a wall, toed in and the left speakers right corner nearly abuts up against my Sound Anchors amp stand. Speakers cannot be moved.

So I have no choice but to use the isolation bars from left to right. Do they work exactly as good as the Podiums?
Does it count for anything that when I put my phone on the tile right in front of a speaker cranking music, that with a Hamm Seismograph app on, there is absolutely no vibration registered on the tile?

I ask as maybe all I'd need is to float my equipment rack on the Seismic Support Isolation Corners. That seems like an incredible bang for the buck and simpler than isolating both turntables, CD player, Classe processor, Model 12 amp and tube phono drive separately.

I guess the recommendation is to never use my sub in 2 channel supported only on its cones/spikes?

I'd have no problem putting my heavy Sub on Nobsound springs. If they could support 140 pounds.

Did someone mention that bass is lost with the Townshend podiums?

The only fly in the ointment is I don't see an easy way to get to the back right corner to lift the equipment rack to put an isolation support corner. There is no room to get in there. Like 10" unless I pull the rack away from the walls and slide it back? ....I could use a dolly to lift up the other accessible corners. Maybe I could use a Seismic Isolation Pod in that tough corner. But I'd have to remove the spike first. Tough!  Maybe pull the rack all the way out, put the Isolation Support Corner on the spike and slide it back? Will the pod rubber slide over tile and grout lines? .....Thinking cap time!
Sorry for all the stream of consciousness questions. I definitely want to do something but do the right thing. However I need to know the answers before I order....Thanks!

That's great, glad to hear it!   I sure look forward to coming home and listening.  Cheers!

vinylshadow, There will be no stability problems with Townshend. The best by far but also most expensive will be to put the turntables on Townshend Platforms or Podiums. Either one will be a superb base for a turntable. But you will probably be able to get almost as great performance for a lot less money from 4 Pods. 

The way the Pods work the top part is threaded into a plate on the top of the spring. The plate is very secure and so anything treaded into it will move and be isolated but will also be stable. It will move freely but not fall over. This will be the killer performance value way to go. Podiums or Platforms will be even better but maybe not quite as good a bargain. Unless of course you value the looks of one over the other, looks do count for something you know.

The stone bargain in cheap is Nobsound. These should also be stable enough but there is a simple solution in case you are still worried. Simply take some nice looking wood, acrylic or Corian and make your own bases for the springs. The springs fit perfectly into 1/4" holes. Do a test to see how many springs you will need, then cut your pieces to 3" or so diameter to be however stable you want, drill em and put together. 

I have done this to make extra ones from my leftover springs. Works great. These are not as good as Townshend. Not even close. But incredibly good for the money, so good there is nothing to recommend above Nobsound until you make the big jump in both price and performance to Townshend.

The main drawback to Nobsound is the lack of damping. Townshend has this dialed in. So with Nobsound a lot more depends on how willing and good you are at tweaking, experimenting, trial and error. Townshend are set and forget, once level you are done.