((I think that a lot of people (myself included) are tired of your habit of using a discourse on any subject as an excuse for being abusive. You alternate between bad puns and nasty jabs.
Maplegrove )))
WTF
First of all lets be fair "think Logic ,facts and experience"
I look at ZD posts and think he is pretty much spot on 98 percent of the time. If you had the experience it would all make more sense to you.
Perhaps if you can get past emotional pride response and stay open minded you may just learn something.
We need more folks that speak from their own real challenges, discoveries,and errors instead of confused jargon emotional response on how to get there from what he said, she said on someone else's rig.
JohnnyR |
Hi John,
I know you, and have purchased from you, and have sat with you and had a number of very pleasant and enjoyable discussions while listening to music (usually on Vandersteens), and you have taught me a great deal without any of the confrontational crap that Zd spouts on a regular basis.
If you go back to the earlier part of this thread, he started up when I suggested that the OP check out "The Clue" speaker, which I admit I have never heard. Read his response, and then tell me his posts are instructive.
As I said, I think a number of members are probably tired of his poor attitude.
John |
Roxy 54
Thanks for your comments.
Quoting JAs measurements
((It must be remembered that the Clue is intended to be used when placed flush with the wall behind it. However, as the nearfield measurement technique assumes just such a condition, this graph therefore correlates with HR's finding the speaker's low frequencies to sound lean. And note the high-Q resonance in the port's output at 800Hz.))
In all fairness and not to be nasty for the OP i also agree and think the Clue would be clueless for him as ZD stated.
To be nice when you see statements like this,if you were him and had a solid opinion makes it hard to resist from being cynical.
There's got to be a little fun for him in being correct
Best JohnnyR |
Audioconnection , You assume you know peoples emotional states ? Your recent post is a emotional incoherent rambling. You like zd's brand recommendations . Fine, look closer at how he states them . Telling someone he will like the Vandersteen ? Never heard a more preposterous statement . Do you tell people what they will like too ?
You folks who shill specific brands repeatedly because you like them is strictly ego driven . Anyone can repeatedly shill a brand . Open your ears and minds . |
Audioconnection , If you are going to chime in on Roxy54's recommendation of "the clue" being a clueless suggestion then give your own recommendation for the speaker the op should buy . You must have the "correct" answer with all that knowledge you have . |
Zd the only one putting words in you mouth is audioiconnection. Again when you skewered roxy for his suggestion of the clue and said they are clueless you are speaking in absolutes. You go on to say that it is not that hard to get anyone to say anything about anything. How do you know thats what they are doing? What proof do you have of this? Why is your opinion passed of as fact on this? Further moore who the f#$# are you to say they are clueless if they like them? Roxy did not tell him to go out and buy the speaker he said people like them and maplegrove did not tell the op to go out and buy the actives he told the op to listen to some.
Then you go on to say there is no guarantee they will like actives....well no shit sherlock thats why its called a suggestion. There is no gaurantee the op will like anything thats been suggested including vandersteens thats why nobody here said run out and purchase this or that. Also I'm puzzled as to why you use sales of vandies as a baseline for customer satisfaction. Are you saying everyone who bought vandersteens kept them? Again how do you know this where do you get these facts? Bose has huge sales numbers as well so are we now to assume based on your logic they are in the same league? Adcom was the highest selling amp of all time too does that mean everyone the bought one still owns an adcom? Hell no.
And speaking of specs and measurements Johnny your telling us zd was using ja measurements of the clue to base hIs assertion that anyone who suggests them are clueless? So now we are back to zd's pet peeve which is blindly assuming how something will sound based on numbers vs actually listening? We should all buy are speakers and make recommendations now based on Johns measurements?
Again this sounds to me like speaking in absolutes. Idk maybe I'm wrong.
|
((Maple. Do you tell people what they will like too))
When I set up the Vandies text book correct in most rooms its so different compared to a mini box and pretty hard to resist for most folks.
All i am stating is the facts,a genuine observation based on real life experience which you cant seem to handle. Hey they might not be your cupa, but many compare them using live recordings and studio and get it more then do not.
Best JohnnyR
(((Audioconnection , If you are going to chime in on Roxy54's recommendation of "the clue" being a clueless suggestion then give your own recommendation for the speaker the op should buy . You must have the "correct" answer with all that knowledge you have .
Maplegrovemusic))
Thank you. yes I agree, FYI its the 9th post from the top
Best JohnnyR |
Wow , You are a dealer huh ? It makes you a living , keeps you alive with food and shelter . Defend until the end ? I now see why you wanted to defend zd since he exclusively recommends Vandersteen . Are you an Ayre dealer as well . You seem like the prototype dealer . Every post you enter here should state you are a dealer so we can skip over your biased input . |
I agree johnny when and only when they are set up to properly vandersteens sound great but off axis not so much. Kinda like the clues they need to be set up properly or they won't measure well either. |
((Chrshanl37 I agree johnny when and only when they are set up to properly Vandersteens sound great but off axis not so much.))
What you can try to improve off axis response is if in a rectangle room, is much wider then normal spacing, try sitting within the triangle, speakers closer to the side walls with just a bit of toe in and nail the first reflection with diffusion as well as secondary reflection on the opposing wall.
Best JohnnyR
Vandersteen dealer |
Check out Ascend's Sierra-1 monitors. Sierra-2's don't go as low. |
Topten - $4000 for speakers or for amp and speakers? I believe most $4000 speakers would need something better than the NAD you have. |
""the bass is in a different league than what you have now " zd ,Speaking in absolutes
"that said the model 1's are hard to beat . You should like them". How do you have any idea if he will like them ? He should like them ? One of the dumbest statements i have read recently . I could dissect zd's posts for hours and bring to light the terrible suggestions ,but only so much time in the day .
Maplegrovemusic (System | Threads | Answers | This Thread)"
I can tell you for sure that I was spot on about the retard comment I made. First, everyone is complaining that I talk in absolutes. I then ask for you guys to read my post, and to your credit, you actually do. But this is where the retard part comes in. Looking at this;
"You should like them". How do you have any idea if he will like them ?"
Well, by me saying the OP should like them, proves that I'm not talking in absolutes. Should is not definite. And to even ask how would I have any idea that the OP would like them? Vandersteen's are usually respected for their bass. If you are looking for a speaker that has good bass, Vandersteen is a name that typically comes up. I even go so far to say that if the OP doesn't like the Vandersteen's for some reason, I gave an alternate recommendation of Monitor Audio. The thing that makes this whole conversation so ridiculous is that I clearly lay all this out right from the beginning, with no attitude or ambiguity whatsoever.
Just to clarify, I stand by my recommendation of the Vandersteen model 1's, and Monitor Audio. If anyone doesn't like my recommendations, that's OK. We all like different things. For the people that are attacking me for making these recommendations, you can kiss my ass. |
"04-13-15: Roxy54
Zd542
I think that a lot of people (myself included) are tired of your habit of using a discourse on any subject as an excuse for being abusive. You alternate between bad puns and nasty jabs.
Maplegrove is right. It's just getting old. "
If you can give me an example of me doing this, I'll be more than happy to apologize. |
"04-12-15: Zd542
"04-11-15: Roxy54
Users and reviewers speak well of "The Clue."
That's because they don't have one."
I believe that this post really upset a few people. It was just a humorous comment aimed at reviewers. I've seen most of the other posters on this web site make similar comments. Of course, I'm the one who gets attacked for it. Read the last sentence of my last post. |
Zd , You pulled out one sentence out of a million and defend yourself in a whole on that one sentence ? No one really cares who and what you recommend . I surely do not . The constant quotes of members thoughts , idea's and recommendations is aggressive to say the least . You try to justify it by calling it open dialogue or discussion . When it is just uncalled for . |
Maplegrovemusic
At this point, I don't know what else to say other than you're a complete waste of food. |
Can we stop ankle biting and address the OP's questions? Seriously. I hate it when people hijack a thread for their own aural-ideological differences. |
Hey! Knock it off already you knuckleheads... You know who you are. |
+1 Simao. It seems that for some it is just too easy to take offense to something posted. Almost as if they are looking for that opportunity.
Topen, I tend to agree with J135, in that with your budget of $4000 you are in a position to find an amp/speaker combination that better provides what you are seeking. |
What you have would seem to be pretty good on paper in regards to bass for a room that size.
What aspects of bass are you looking to improve? Low end extension and/or quantity? Quality/detail articulation? Or maybe all of teh above?
Or another way to ask it is have you heard a system anywhere that has the sound you want? If so what was the setup that did it?
Its much easier to hit a target if one knows exactly what the target is. "decent/better" bass alone is not much to go on.
Thanks. |
Mapman
That's the right question. I am looking for the speakers
with low end extension and at the same time to keep quality
of the Focal highs. Again, I really like the sound of the NAD, punchy bass and extended highs after I replaced the stock jumpers. Two days ago I received private E-mail from the
one of the fellow Audiogoner with the suggestion to try
Carbon 7 SE Speakers. Bass goes low to 38 Hz but he is not
sure how they would sound with the NAD C356. |
The logical choice then to extend teh low end yet retain the would seem to be larger Focals in the same line.
The other affordable Focal line I have heard and like a lot is the Profile line. Check the specs, measurements reviews of particular models to identify the larger ones, most likely two larger floor standers rather than the smaller monitors, with more low end extension. |
"04-14-15: Fritzspeaks
Hey! Knock it off already you knuckleheads... You know who you are."
Sorry, I wouldn't want you to loose a sale.
"Any opinions on Fritzspeakers Carbon 7 SE Speakers.
Good reviews, but I don't know how they would sound with
the NAD." |
The Fritz Carbon 7s would be an excellent choice, for way less than 4k. Fritz is a great guy to talk to as well.
I think Jl35 is right to wonder if you should consider more amp, if you are willing to go 4k on speakers. You might well be able to detectably best the NAD.
So you might think about how to allocate your budget. (eg, the Carbon 7s and a used Cronus Magnum -- to pick an amp at random -- come in at under 4 combined). I seem to swap out speakers much more frequently than my amps, so I might put more into the juice.
John |
Kef R300's do bass, and everything else very well.. |
Clearwave Duet 6 monitors might do it for you. I like them so I'm biased so I had a high end dealer over for a listen just to make sure I wasn't going mad and he thought highly of them and said he could listen to them all day long. He even inquired if Clearwave made a floor stander.
The only caveat he had was that there was a bit too much bass for my room and he felt the padding under my carpet added too much instability which aided (but smeared) bass response and kind of rolled off the highs so I got some ceramic flagstone and put them under the stands and it went a ways to quell the problem.
I still might try the least expensive Symposium plates between the speakers and stands but I've come to realize just how flat the response is up high. With my old Tonians and the ribbon tweeter cymbal strikes and crashes sounded 'in your face' which grew kind of old after 5 years. Now the cymbals are where the drums are and not overdone. It all depends on the recording techniques.
The only thing that may be an issue is your amp. Although the watts are enough, not all watts are equal. It's like horsepower in a car: two cars will measure the same but have different torque curves and perform quite differently.
All the best,
Nonoise |
THANK YOU ALL on your opinions.
I narrowed my choice to the Carbon 7se and the Proac D2.
Mr.Fritz confirmed that Carbon 7se would sound nice with the
NAD. How about the Proac D2, or should I stay away from the
Proac since they require more powerful Amplifier. |
You might have enough power, but the Proac's deserve a much better amplifier... |
I've heard good things about the Ryan R610 |
I have a 12' x 24' living space and the Wharfedale Jade 3s fill that room and have amazingly deep bass. They're pretty much like a sealed design and very easy to place. Also a very neutral speaker, if that is your preference. Good luck. |
Have you considered the KEF LS50? I heard these at AXPONA this year, pulled very much into the room and they produced nice bass. Here is a video of the setup I listened to - not for the sound, but to show how far they were from the rear wall and still had nice bass. |
Check out the Nola boxer. If you decide to go with the boxer
you should also get the Sound Anchor loudspeaker stands. This is very important. This combination won "best of show" award at RMAF 2012. It was driven by a Rogue integrated tube amplifier. |
With speakers as good as Focal...I would at least try a sub...many different options and price points... |
"How about the Proac D2, or should I stay away from the
Proac since they require more powerful Amplifier.
Topten (Threads | Answers | This Thread)"
I don't know if I'm too late but I just noticed that statement in your post. ProAc speakers sometimes look difficult to drive on paper, but in reality are not difficult at all. The impedance tends to stay consistent, and not drop too low. The NAD amp you have won't have any problem driving them. |
