Bob Dylan - new album just out on Tidal - Rough and Rowdy Ways

"Do we really need another Cohen?"

There may already be a few out there in the world, and may have been, but language barrier becomes a real barrier.

I doubt Dylan ever ‘wanted to play in a rock band’.

Gee, noone’s ever accused him of that before. 🙄

"I doubt Dylan ever ‘wanted to play in a rock band’."

When Dylan approached The Hawks in 1965, they were only vaguely aware of him. They came from a very different world, that of Rhythm & Blues, Blues, Jazz, Rockabilly (having served as Ronnie Hawkins’ band for a couple of years), and Hillbilly/Country. The Folk music heard on the radio was "p*ssy" music to them, effete urban and suburban "white" music.

They had been playing the "white chitlin" circuit, in working class bars across the east coast, midwest, and south (as well as up in Toronto), to hard drinking audiences, often separated from the audience by a chicken wire screen (to keep the flying bottles from reaching the stage ;-).

It was only after working with Dylan that they became what we hear on Music From Big Pink and the brown album, especially after spending all of 1967 in the basement of Big Pink, making music and recording it (the Basement Tapes, of course). Their influences---like that of Dylan---are deep and wide. Organist Garth Hudson is a classically-trained musician---reads music, knows music theory, etc. Levon Helm grew up listening to local Bluesmen---he lived in the same Arkansas town as Sonny Boy Williamson, sitting in the corner of the local radio station when SB performed live on the air---and The Grand Old Opry, just as had Elvis, Jerry Lee Lewis, Johnny Cash, Roy Orbison, and Carl Perkins. Bassist Rick Danko led his own Country band, once opening for Ronnie Hawkins & The Hawks. Richard Manuel played around Toronto, known for his Ray Charles-influenced vocal style and ability.

The Band were definitely not a Rock band, but they did play Rock ’n’ Roll (if you appreciate the difference). But much more: Hillbilly, Blues, Pop, and music which defies categorization via such crude terms.

@tomcy6, I don't consider The Band a Rock band for this reason:

If you consider the early-to-mid 1950’s explosion of "teenage" music---Little Richard, Fats Domino, Bill Haley & The Comets, Chuck Berry, Buddy Holly, Gene Vincent, the Sun Records Rockabillies (who combined black Rhythm & Blues with white Hillbilly)---Rock ’n’ Roll (which, for the sake of this argument I will accept, though I consider the late-40’s recordings of guys like Big Joe Turner---who did original versions of songs later covered by Bill Haley and Elvis---the true original R & R, though it was at the time called Jump Blues), then what differentiates it from "Rock" music?

The Rock ’n’ Roll of the 1950’s had Blues/Jump Blues/Rhythm & Blues elements, but also that of another predominantly-Southern music: Hillbilly. But after the music business and musical tastes (and the morality and official police forces) killed that original R & R, by the mid-60’s the music that we now consider Rock had taken it’s place. Gone almost completely in Rock music was the Hillbilly element, the Blues element becoming predominant. The Stones, The Yardbirds, The Kinks, The Who, Cream, Hendrix, Led Zeppelin, Santana, Big Brother & The Holding Company (featuring Janis Joplin, of course), The Airplane, etc. had ZERO Hillbilly in their music, and the same is true for the bulk of all Rock music that has followed. There are exceptions, but most bands we consider Rock are largely Blues-based. You want a band that had/has it all? Listen to NRBQ and Los Lobos. For solo artists Dave Edmunds and Buddy Miller.

Well, The Band’s music included that Hillbilly/Country element missing in Rock bands, so I consider them a true Rock ’n’ Roll band (though much more than that). I find it humorous that with the Hillbilly/Country element present n Rock ’n’ Roll almost completely removed in Rock, when that same Hillbilly/Country element was added back in by the likes of The Eagles, the resulting music was called Country Rock. Take the Country element out of Rock ’n’ Roll, call it Rock, then when you put the Hillbilly/Country back into Rock, you call it Country Rock? Shouldn’t it once again be Rock ’n’ Roll? In the case of The Eagles, a quick listen to their music will prove the answer to be no. But that’s because they had no Rock ’n’ Roll in them to begin with! The Band did.

@cleeds, I love that scene in Diner, and directed people to it a while back. Up above I called many genre distinctions crude. Like using a machete instead of a scalpel. I don’t organize my LP’s and CD’s by genre, though doing so chronologically is an interesting idea.

Big Joe Turner recorded "Shake, Rattle, & Roll" before Bill Haley (and of course Elvis), Turner’s version at the time being called Jump Blues (and "Race" music by some), Haley’s Rock ’n Roll. Is that because Turner was black, Haley white? I don’t know, but I consider Turner’s Rock ’n’ Roll as well, and greatly prefer it to Haley’s. Many have not heard Joe’s version---remedy that situation!

Big Joe Turner came out of Kansas City, so had some (a lot) of Jazz in him as well. Perhaps that’s why his music contains so much "Swing", another characteristic that separates Rock ’n’ Roll (swings) from Rock (doesn’t, generally speaking). Neil Peart couldn’t have worked in Big Joe’s band; he was unable to play the Swing feel, as became apparent at the Buddy Rich tribute show he organized.

I saw The Blasters back Big Joe at The Lingerie Club in Hollywood in the mid-80’s; now THERE was a band that swung! For those who don’t know, Dave Alvin came out of The Blasters (though his brother Phil was the singer/frontman), left to join X, then started his solo career. The Blasters understood very well the connection between Jump Blues, Rhythm & Blues, Rockabilly, Rock ’n’ Roll, and Hillbilly, playing it all. As a bonus, their Non Fiction LP (self-produced, recorded at Ocean Way, the studio preferred by Ry Cooder and T Bone Burnett) and Hard Line LP (produced by Jeff Eyrick) feature great recorded sound. Get hip or go home. ;-)

No, this all started from you making the statement, ‘if he (Dylan) wants to be in a rock band....’ and implying his current effort doesn’t meet the classification of a being in a ‘rock band’,

Sorry, but that’s not what I said. I was saying that Bob’s singing voice had deteriorated to the point where, if he wanted to continue playing in a rock band, he should get someone else to sing.

You then said that Bob has never wanted to play in a rock band.

@tomcy6, Crowell is fantastic! The Houston Kid album is in my Top 10 albums of all-time list, an absolute masterpiece. His former father-in-law Johnny Cash makes a guest appearance on one song, the Rockabilly-esque "I Walk The Line (Revisited)". I saw him perform the album at The Roxy in Hollywood at the time of it's release, and the audience was filled with other artists (Dave Alvin was at the table next to me).

The Houston Kid album reminds me of John Hiatt's Bring The Family, in that each started the second phase of their careers with those two albums, producing music far superior to that of their previous work. Rodney spent time serving as Emmylou Harris' rhythm guitarist/harmony singer/bandleader in her Hot Band, a position now filled by the also great Buddy Miller.

But no, I don’t think he started writing to be in a ‘rock band’.