Best used or new DAC under $3500

By the way, my PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC mk II with Bridge II is about to go up for sale.  It’s in 8 or 9 condition. PM me if that is of any interest to you!

Guys,

Here is the secret I have been keeping! This DAC outclassed the Audio Note and at a fraction of the cost...

https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/sw1x-audio-design-dac-ii-absolute-top-tier-ref-nos-dac

Wig

PS Audio DirectStream

I think its a lot easier to find those qualities in speakers or preamps than in a DAC. My guess is any brand that utilizes tubes in their design gets you closer to those requirements.  

Forward 

I am looking for a Dac + Transport under 3500 used that has a very forward soundstage ( instruments are in front of the speaker, not even like sitting in the first row but being on the stage) volume control + remote and xlr needed. Bright but full bodied fast detailed sound.

will the Metrum onyx fit?

other alternatives:
resonessence mirus
benchmark dac 3
soekris 1541

I wanted to try the Venus, but typically people tend to either buy the Pontus or the Terminator. The large capacitor counts (possibility of failure), as well as lack of reviews kinda stopped me. I know there's a very rabid Italian following but I was looking for more consensus.

I'll stand by and say the new Metrum Onyx/Jade are the best DACs within this bracket based on what I heard/tried.

Anybody tried the Denafrips Venus?  Seems to fit more or less in this price bracket.

For something more unusual you could try the Swedish DA909 from Harmony Design. I have an early version of the smaller dac and really liked it. The new version is about $2000 and made with modules that makes it possible to upgrade later.

http://www.harmonydesignus.com/

I couldn't find the product page in English but the Swedish page is here. You'll have to use Google translate or similar.

http://www.harmonydesign.se/index.php?sid=62&katID=4&prodID=25

Berkely Alpha DAC? v1 or 2
Bel Canto 3.5/3.7 DAC with Virtually Battery Supply PSU

With all due respects Wig, why did you not start your own topic? Its getting confusing having an original OP, and one pseudo op. ^smiley face^

I'll second "Audio Note NOS DAC, no analogue filtering, tube output stage."

Most organic, natural-sounding/musical digital music I've ever heard.

I am sorry, I should have been a bit more clear in my post. I am talking about the new DAC from Metrum, called Onyx.  It's made with the same DAC2 modules as the Pavane 3, but instead of 4 modules per channel, it has 2 modules per channel.  And according to pretty much everyone who heard both, they are extremely close in performance.  The Onyx is priced around $2500.

http://www.the-ear.net/review-hardware/metrum-acoustics-onyx-and-jade-digital-analogue-converter

@nitewulf 

I've only read positive things about the metrum pavane 3. No doubt  you've made a great choice. And I too prefer the sound of multi-bit ladder in comparison to delta-sigma.

I haven't checked extensively, but isn't the metrum pavane 3 DAC more expensive (new) than $3500?

I love my metrum pavane 3

Wig,
very special 😊. Looking forward to your initial listening impressions.
Charles

@gdhal, yes possibly, I’d say it’s the best dac (depending on your taste: r2r/delta-sgma, OS/NOS) within the 2K - 6K range. We all know, money doesn’t equate to quality of course. I also know what you have obviously, due to the other thread and I’m keeping that out of competition as I’ve not heard it, but I would love to hear the Yggy (if anyone in Brooklyn or nearby wants to host, I’ll bring beer :) ) but aside from that, what I’ve heard within this range includes Mytek Brooklyn, T+A DAC8 DSD, and multitudes of affordable to uber dacs at various shows (hard to judge of course given the short duration as well as music selection)

I have had the Perfectwave DAC MK2 for the last few years, prior to that HRT Music Streamer + (surprisingly good for the price!), and the Peachtree Decco as a dac/preamp before that. Of all those, the PWD 2 was really the best when on NativeX mode. Honestly in OS modes, there really wasn’t much difference between this dac and the HRT, granted my speakers at the time weren’t that revealing, still they sounded pretty much the same. On NativeX, yes, PWD 2 pulled ahead, it just sounds very organic and non-fatiguing, enjoyable and engaging in this mode. Once it started having some issues however, I bought a CA Dacmagic Plus as a stop gap to replace it. I was looking to upgrade the PWD2 anyway, but didn’t wanna buy something too quick.

The CA Dacmagic isn't near the quality of the PWD M2, its very high res, but ultimately fatiguing. And while the details are there, the micro details, attack/decay, sustain, separation of instruments within the stage, all of the characters were not really as good. But it's also pretty cheap. For what it is, I think it's a great device that can do it all.

But.

After a lot of research I basically knew I wanted to buy a NOS r2r ladder dac, DSD/MQA weren’t important for me, as my existing, huge digital library mostly consists of flacs: from 16 bits to hi res (24/192). I wanted a true balanced dac with usb and optical inputs and a remote (nice to have). The Yggy intrigued me, but being an OS dac I knew it wouldn’t really be "my thing". I basically settled on either the Metrum Pavane Level 3 or the MSB Analog. When I contacted Metrum, basically they told me: Try the Onyx, you will be surprised.

And oh my god am I surprised! This level of fidelity at this price point is unthinkable to me. When people are changing thousand dollar power cables to "extend sound stage height" (how about raking the speakers back a bit ;) ), or cables to EQ the sound signature...I’m sitting hear grinning from ear to ear at my collection of music.

Kudos to Metrum, they deserve every success they get. I hope they become a huge brand.

@ jond

Will have to keep you in suspense until next week but it will be a game changer in Redbook play back with NOS or filtering...


Wig

And the winner is...........

Fairly certain I know which dac is the best under $3500.

@nitewulf 

And I'm fairly certain I know what you know in this regard :)

I've read it could be considered the best DAC under $5000. :)

@wig So how are you liking your new AN DAC?

Fairly certain I know which dac is the best under $3500.

Another vote for a PS Audio DAC with Bridge II.  I have the older PWD mkII with Bridge II, and I think it is outstanding.  The bridge II is a really interesting piece - send data via ethernet and the bridge II card then plays the music.  Partner it with Roon software for a winning combination. The combo is far better than USB in my opinion.

Lampizator Atlantic II

rodge827

Sold and delivered last week.

Wig

@wig
Have you put your BP Dac up for sale yet?

Add Titans Audio Lab Helen before a reasonable DAC, such as an Arcam D33, and you can compete with the top fliers.

Hi,

We have A/B 72 different digital front ends and we just ordered the Soekris 1541. After the unit is broken in I will give you my honest impressions. I own an audio distribution company and rarely take on new lines but I am interested to hear the Soekris 1541 compared to my reference dacs.

Cheers,

I always tell my Audiophile friend this is the best time to be audiophile , because they are plenty of good dacs, sacd players, Speakers , and many more to choose from , price is reachable.

Gwalt, 
Absolutely agree that there's an abundance of truly excellent audio components available in the current market. 
Charles 

Wig:
I agree with the heart. I also think sometimes there is just too much gear too choose from especially in digital. Many choices that would all fit one's needs and price ranges.
Gwalt

Hi Wig,
David is right,  follow your heart 😊. Wig I'd like to know the differences you hear between these 2 highly regarded DACs. 
C

Best to if your up to it compare the two with their data sheets.

Hi George. I'll leave the technical dissection to you if you don't mind. I have looked at the AD5791 previously, but can't say I completely understand it. By all means, let me know how the two DAC chips compare. Besides, isn't it you who states that the chip itself is only a small percentage of the overall sound. I'm led to believe the implementation of the chip and rest of the analog circuit is paramount. 

Supposedly the Yggdrasil also uses something no other DAC uses:

AD5791

It’s also not an audio d/a converter, but one (it said) used for things like missile guidance circuits.
Now it won’t have the good audio specs as say the last best PCM1704 R2R/multibit 24bit specific audio dac has, but if this matters, who knows?
Best to if your up to it compare the two with their data sheets.

Yggdrasils AD5791 http://www.analog.com/media/en/technical-documentation/data-sheets/AD5791.pdf

Burr Browns (TI): PCM1704: http://www.qlshifi.com/jszl/PCM1704.pdf

Cheers George

@wig   Understood. Follow your heart... +1

@ david_ten

You know how it is when you have your heart set on something and needed to follow thru; the BP is a very good Dac too and the shortest I've owned a component.

Wig

@wig  What happened??? One of the quickest turnarounds in DAC land....

Having just gone through this, I ended up with an Ayre qb-9 DSD.  I know I can sell this and not lose any money should it not live up to my expectations.  

I looked at the Mytek Brooklyn DAC+ but didn't want to deal with some of the support issues I've recently read about.  I'm intrigued by MQA but it's not a deal breaker.

I also considered the Chord Hugo TT but my local dealer (who interestingly enough is also the Mytek dealer) wasn't very accommodating and I didn't feel it was worth 2x the cost of what I paid for the qb-9.

My experiences with the Ayre gear is quite different than the OP's but that is irrelevant.  We hear what we hear.

Hi Wig,
Another excellent choice but what makes you sure that you’ll prefer it compared to the BP (which you describe as fantastic) ? I’m not saying you wouldn’t but how do you know?
Charles

In negotiations for an AN 2.1, my beloved 7 day old BP Dac will be going up for sale. What a fantastic sounding Dac and it's going to make someone here very happy at a reduced price.

Wig

Hi Wig,

Congratulations on your purchase!
I have owned Gary Dews (Border Patrol) amps. and I know he has some great inventions out there.  He puts a lot of merit in his power supplies and of course likes tubes both of which makes his modest price DAC sound so good along with the lack of upsampling.
For the money, I would feel very confident in your decision as a winner so good choice. I like your idea of keeping the cost down in the ever changing digital world.
If I were to try something myself I would seek out his DAC with a CEC TL3 transport. Gary voiced his dac with a CEC TL0 transport looking for a natural musical experience and he obviously found it. Gary is a great guy for sure so I am sure you will find enjoyment with your decision.

Enjoy your music,
Gwalt

Hi Wig,
Congratulations on obtaining the Border Patrol SE (BP) DAC. As discussed in earlier posts I thought there was a very good possibility that you would be nappy with it due to its natural sonic character.

It is an effective communicator of music and allows a emotionally engaging connection with the music. It doesn’t error in the direction of "hyper detail" which most often results in an analytical or clinical hifi sound that isn’t musically involving. The BP will allow very enjoyable listening for hours and won’t fatigue your ears. 
Charles

I recently purchased a Border Patrol DAC SE with USB + SPDIF.  My wife's usual comment on my HiFi system changes -- "they both sound good".  She did not know that I had the BP and said -- "that cd sounds like vinyl".
 
To me, the BP moves digital toward an analog sound.  I am really enjoying this DAC.  

@wig  I'm looking at the BorderPatrol myself and will be interested in any further impressions you have!

Nice Wig and glad you're enjoying it so much! Love that type of filterless minimalist design.

Congratulations. Its always very satisfying to find something you like so much and stay well below budget. Enjoy. Its supposed to be a great DAC, especially for Redbook CD playback.

... I wanted something with tube(s) that was natural sounding, musical, transparent with no oversampling, filtering or buffering and now have this Dac in my system...  the music has a wholeness to it that’s hard to explain but the room is alive with life-like musicians/instruments.....

I can relate to your quote. As BorderPatrol states "the most natural sounding DAC’s are usually NOS (no over-sampling) designs based around the R-2R resistor ladder chips with no digital filtering". 

Best of luck with it.

Guys,

Thank you all for your recommendations! I wanted something with tube(s) that was natural sounding, musical, transparent with no oversampling, filtering or buffering and now have this Dac in my system; Border Patrol SE with SPDIF.

I have had this Dac for 5 days now and I am really loving it! It has the ability to draw you in to the music with natural overtones and vibrant but realistic imaging and it still has more to go in terms of burn-in but bass is so impressive; nice clarity but not state of the art but very good indeed.

I normally listen to specific tracks and now find myself playing the whole disc, the music has a wholeness to it that’s hard to explain but the room is alive with life-like musicians/instruments. Will see if an Audiophile fuse will elevates its performance even further... Truly a bargain in the Dac arena with technology changing at break-neck speed.

Wig

Some dude is selling a brand new Hegel HD30 for $3.6k. I would buy it myself if not for the fact that I may buy some speakers this month. I am also considering the PS Audio DS but the Hegel would win out at the price difference.

Anyone heard the Soekris?