“I just ordered the 9.0X . I also have a pair of Siemens E188CC/7308 gold pins coming. Curious, Did you upgrade the PC or Fuse. I don’t see anything listed about fuse value or if it’s even worth doing.”
I did not not change fuse, but I did change power cables that feed the PS along with the power cable that feed the phono preamp from the PS. Both made for a larger soundstage. The PS fuse is a 3A slow blo if I recall.
I also tried Siemens 6922 1960s NOS tubes in it. They are my second favorite, but the Bel/India (Philips SQ) was better overall. Something about there tonality that kept me going back to them. Amperex JAN USA 6922 were my third favorites and had the deepest, most slamming bass but are a touch in your face sounding compared to Siemens and Philips, both of which have great bass but not so in your face sounding. They also have a bit more decay that I liked. Herbies RX rings towards the upper half of the tubes also works wonders, but they don’t absolutely need them. System dependent.
|
If you can find it I recommend the Croft Acoustics RIAA RS!
|
I have had my Einstein Turntable's Choice XLR for years and beat out many (BAT VK-P10SE, Sonic Frontiers Phono 1 SE, ASR Phono Exclusive, etc). It's above your budget, but RCA version which is 90% of the XLR performance could be within reach in second hand market.
Another one to consider is also German, Restek Miniria+, this one has no visibility in US but can be bought direct from German retailer. It's way below your price range, I heard it in an ultra high end system and it was as good as Einstein or Tom Evan's best effort. I am getting one for my second system.
|
@hifi59
I just ordered the 9.0X . I also have a pair of Siemens E188CC/7308 gold pins coming. Curious, Did you upgrade the PC or Fuse. I don't see anything listed about fuse value or if it's even worth doing.
Thanks
|
The PS Audio has no Mono switch :(
|
“So after a couple weeks with the 20/20 I can say its taken my vinyl enjoyment up a notch.”
Good deal!
|
This is a really cool thread because it delivers so many options. Obviously a lot of happy campers out there and companies making equipment people respond to. Me, my EAR Phono Classic arrived today to finally move out a very old friend, the first edition of the Acoustic Signature Tango. All the years I got out of that thing (a Needle Doctor purchase, no less) for $600, it was an absolute steaI. I have never, ever seen one for sale on the used market, and mine is destined some day for a second system.
|
My MAGI phonomenal ($1000, 2 MM inputs) sounds better than my Allnic H1202 MM.
|
So after a couple weeks with the 20/20 I can say its taken my vinyl enjoyment up a notch. Ironically its made my system sound more holographic than adding tubes.
I wish Sutherland made a linestage, I'd be in for that. I cancelled the order on the other preamp and am content with this. Perhaps at some point in the future I'll add the LPS.
|
|
@hifi59
Thanks I appreciate that, many outstanding choices which is great for system matching. I think I’m very close to pulling the trigger on the Modwright. Looking at the Musical Surroundings, Bryston BP2 also the Icon. The dealer I’m working with will take my SPL Phonos on trade towards the PH9.0x so I think that may be the way I go.
|
“Some great choices here. I'm thinking about the Modwright PH9.0x. Does anyone have any experience with this one in relation to the others mentioned? I do own one of Dan's modded SACD players and love it.”
I have thePH9.0x upgraded from the PH9.0. The 9.0 is a great phono pre and about the equivalent to the Parasound JC3+ that I previously owned. The 9.0X really took it up a good notch! Huge soundstage, resolution and bass authority.
With Philips 6922 SQ tubes (or Bel/India equivalents at a cheaper price), I can’t imagine anything near its price point sounding better. It’s that good! I’ve tried nos Mullards, various Amperex, GE and several others, but the Bel/I did was the most accurate and musical.
|
What are the mc gain options for the Coda?
|
@goose +1. Darlington Labs MP-7 is amazing. I used to own a JC-3 and Chinook and I would never pay that kind of money again having heard this phono pre. I like it so much that I have ordered their new head amp, the SU-7.
|
Since there is a used one on US Audio Mart for $2150, I would say the Coda 06x phono stage, one of my all time favorites at any price. Extremely quiet with great sound quality. I'll always have one in my systems. Actually listening to it now; SME 12A, Ortofon Cadenza Bronze, Coda 06x, 07x, No 8, Fyne F703.
Probably still on US AM due to no reviews.
|
@avanti1960
I have been researching loading. Its a Nagaoka moving iron. Its predictably set to 40db @ 47k. I wondered if loading might help but HeavyMech is so right baout the Lounge. I found graphs from ASR and its big. Personally if I could have say 25% of the Lounge bump I'd be happy. But as he noted anything after the Lounge will take some getting used to.
I did spin a few records yesterday and I like all of what I hear. Ironically its now given my system some of that holographic sound I heard so much about. My tubed linestage didn't do that but the SS phono did. Go figure. But as I said, the Lounge is the last piece from the old system and so voicing has been done with the Lounge in it. So this changes the overall balance.Its more mid-heavy than I am used to but am letting it ride for now.
Mt phono cables are the Audio Envy Phono Deluxe cables @ 1 meter long. The specs listed are:
Measuring a leads capacitance of 3.8pF per foot.
|
The LPS was an add on for me, i had the 20 20 for a year or so before it became available.
It added noticeable improvement in dynamics and energy and seemed to be slightly cleaner sounding. It did not seem to affect the tonal balance.
To fill in the midbass have you looked at loading adjustments, reducing gain, reducing the length and capacitance of the cable to your turntable, all depending on your current cartridge?
also not having been run in a while the 20 20 does need some re burn in time to charge the numerous filtering caps on the chassis. some say 200 hrs of power on time.
|
|
@gochurchgo - the LPS cleans up the sound by lowering the noise from the power supply. Not that the standard one is bad, just that the LPS is excellent.
Ron Sutherland told me that if I was his brother in law, he would tell me to get the LPS for the Insight. I am sure the same applies to the 20/20 although it is $450, probably because it comes in a separate box versus just a board. I’m not sure what kind of cord goes from the LPS to the main box, but I’m sure it doesn’t detract much if anything from the sound, versus it being internal like the Insight.
My change was getting an external PS instead of the internal one in my Plinius Integrated Amp, which has an internally adjustable MM/MC switch. The dealer who sold me the Plinius (used) initially told me I would be very happy with the Insight or the 20/20, and I didn’t want to spend more on the PS than I did on the amp. I was lucky to find a pristine used Insight, but if I saw a used 20/20 back then, I might have gone for it. I guess initially he didn’t want to talk about a PS since I bought th Plinius when all I wanted was a new preamp he thought I would say forget it (which I probably would have). The Plinius PS worked fine, but the Insight sounds way better.
All I can say is that from the second I plugged in the Insight, the difference was immediate. Then I fine tuned the load to match my cartridge and it got a little better. Sorry I don’t have all the audiophile buzzwords for the substantial improvement, I can just say it sounded much better. With every improvement I make, it is hard to say what did what, I just know when I remember a big difference, and when it is subtle if anything.
I can’t say the sound quality improvement with the LPS was noticeable to me, but maybe that depends on your power source, and I use a good power conditioner. I trust Ron, and I am not as sensitive as some of the .very serious Audiogoners. If you decide to ever sell the 20/20, I am sure you would get most if not all of your $$ back for the LPS.
|
@helomech I figured as much. Honestly I really liked it. If the lounge had the detail and speed of the Sutherland I’d never upgrade.
The bummer is that the Lounge has been the oldest piece of gear and so voicing my system includes its sound. So it’s like 2 steps forward (speed and detail) and 1 step back (warmth).
I hate buying gear. I truly hate it.
|
The Lounge LCR has a huge bass hump in its response. It’s an incredibly inaccurate RIAA curve, so probably not fair to expect any other preamp to offer similar levels of midbass. The Lounge is a good example of why these days, I am weary of purchasing products from these small outfits basically operating out of a garage. I’ve had enough experience with such companies regarding product quality and performance to conclude that one is often better off buying from the big brands with established distribution and polished manufacturing processes.
Anyhow, your ears will eventually adjust to the new sound and no doubt you’ll conclude the 20/20 is a worthy upgrade.
|
@vonharaland so far I can say the things people rave about in the 20/20 are definitely true. Giving it a few Weeks to (hopefully) fill out the sound.
|
Sutherland 20/20 + LPS
Oodles better than the Lehman and Rega units I also tried
|
@sokogear I was able to net a 20/20 at a great price. Impressed so far but hoping the midbass fills in some.
what does the LPS bring to the sound? There doesn’t seem to be a consensus.
|
Quick note and not to derail my own thread.
20/20 arrived today getting first listens. It’s been on roughly 2 hours before I got a disc on. It’s a used unit and no idea how much time is on it already. It may have the new top as it was easy to get on and off.
Aurally, it’s interesting. Less mid bass but that seems to make the bass drum more pronounced. It could be the Lounge was smearing things in the midbass. Don’t know. Vocals however are for more centered and seem to sit in front of everything else, which is not something I’ve experienced before. Music also seems to emanate from beyond the width of the speakers. So I hear what reviewers have mentioned about wanting a touch more body to the sound, but it could also be those frequencies being more “organized”.
So far it has no problems with anything I’ve thrown at it, Gene Ammons, Napalm Death, Sonic Youth, Cramps, Godflesh, Peter Tosh, Muddy Waters, etc. It definitely has a more “hifi” feel to the sound as it’s very sharp and defined.
|
With his highly recommended LPS, the Sutherland 20/20 is $2650 - the insight with LPS is $1750 and an excellent phono stage and will meet the $2200 criteria. You may be able to get an Insight used for $8-900 and then add the LPS for $350, which represents tremendous value. It might be hard to find a used 20/20, but if you can, it should be under $2200 by a good bit,and adding the LPS is easier as it is in a separate box, whereas in the Insight, there is an internal board swap (I did myself with assistance from Ron over the phone). He is a great guy..
|
+1 Sutherland 20/20
(Sutherland told me the20/20 was the sweet spot on their price / performance curve.)
|
Easy -- PS Audio Stellar phono pre.
Okay, it's $2,499, so it's a little above your ceiling. But this is the one Michael Fremer of Stereophile said should be considered by anyone planning to buy a phono pre AT ANY PRICE. And that's a guy who normally uses 5 and 6-figure phone pre's.
I bought one and compared it to my Lamm LP 2 tube phono pre -- and immediately sold the Lamm for twice the cost of the PS Stellar.
|
Jolida JD9A rolled 12AX mullard NOS
|
Surprised that no one has mentioned PS Audio Stellar Phono. Mine is startlingly good. I’ve only used it with coils but can’t imagine it would be less than great with MM’s.
|
@nwres Definitely thread that up once you have it. I am on an unofficial waiting list and am very interested in the Don Sachs.
|
I have a Sutherland PhD. Brings out all the detail on the disc. Neutral with a nice wide soundstage. This was a big step up from previous stages. I will be receiving a Don Sachs tube phono stage next week. I am looking forward to comparing the two. Best of luck with the 20/20!
|
@avanti1960
I'm hoping for a little shock and awe. If I can cancel my pre-order because I like the Sutherland I save some cash. Which is always nice. Especially for me.
|
@gochurchgo
perfect. you should be very pleased with the 20 20.
|
Keep it simple for MM or MI this is the best I have had the pleasure of owning and will never part with it.
|
@avanti1960 For the last like 5 years I have been using the Lounge LCR MKIII. It sounds fine and I have no issue with it. I forget about it sometimes but its not an endgame piece. Its never been upgraded and was bought when it was the darling of another forum.
It will go into a Quicksilver Linestage Preamp (12AT7 version with Mullard CV 4024s) and into an Odyssey Khartago (with upgrades). Phono and interconnects are Audio Envy (speaker cables to come soon but currently Morrow SP-4's)
|
@gochurchgo
feel free to be excited. the 20/20 sounds clean, dynamic, airy and energetic.
good for all types of cartridges. possibly better suited to a tube system or a more laid back cartridge and turntable, high mass belt drive . an all solid state system may benefit more from a tube phono stage.
what phono preamp do you have now?
|
The Icon Audio Ps1 Mkii is outstanding. I just upgraded the tubes with 3 RCA NOS Black Plates from Brent Jesse and it was a huge improvement.
|
|
|
Another Ayre fan purchased used about 3 years ago and ended my search for a phono pre. It seems to do everything well.
|
Not to turn this into a cartridge discussion, but part of the reason I have a van den Hul MC One Special cartridge is the fact that he also makes excellent phono stages (and the cartridge is very natural, clean and transparent sounding with a very long lasting stylus). Synergy is great. My holy grail end game phono stage is the van den Hul Grail (I kid you not). Can't justify the expense at this point, but you never know if I hit the lottery or find a great deal on a a used one. A new one would cost more than my table, suspension,shelf, cart, phono stage and its suspension and interconnect and power conditioner combination from a list price stand point, so it would have to be a killer deal on a used one, which I have never seen.
Other than Rega and Linn, I am not aware of anyone else who makes both products, and I already have Rega's P8. I'm not that much of a Rega fan to go the full Rega analogue route and think Linn has lost their way, at least in the US.
I am a big believer of KISS with less adjustments, connections, cables, etc. which is also why the Graill appeals to me.
|
@sokogear yes you re very correct. I admittedly don't know where my cart journey is headed. I currently have a Nag 150 w/ the 200 (Boron) stylus. I like it but there's obviously better. I'd like a Nag 500 and to try a Goldring 1042, Garrott and some tigress. I'll eventually end up going MC at sound point but who knows when.
for now an excellent MM preamp is the goal. I have a used 20/20 coming because the price was low s d I can resell it if it's not for me. I had been set on a Decware but the 7 month build times are now 11+ months (and there's 800 people further back on the list). I've soured on the whole experience so I decided to see what else I should research into oblivion and possibly cancel the order.
|
Before making your final decision you may want to figure out your long term cartridge plan. More than any other link in the stereo signal chain, the cart-phono stage synergy is most important (not that others aren't critical). For example, if you end up with a very low output MC, the new Sutherland model at $1400 may be your best bet, the TZ Vibe. One nice thing about that option is that you don't have to worry about the load setting. It uses some of the tech of his higher end models.
|
Another Ayre fan,I bought one used a couple of years ago. It does everything you want in a phono pre at a reasonable price. It ended my search.
|
Another review of the Ayre P-5
|
Pass Labs XP-15 is excellent and should be within your budget. It has been replaced by the XP-17.
|
|
Ayre Acoustics P5xe. Dead quiet and very detailed. Another, Parasound JC3
|
I'm going to go WAY out into left field here...... but please don't laugh too hard. I picked up a Soulution 550 for 1/3 of a new one and thought that was it. Well.... I had an old GAS Thaedra preamp that Mike at GAS Audio had modified. To make a very long story very short, I sold the Solution, got another Thaedra (that GAS Audio has now) as well as a Rega Planar 10/Aphelion 2 with no $ out of pocket. Just using the phono section from the Thaedra into my Virgo III pre actually, for me, sounds REALLY good. Do a little research. A Thaedra plus rebuild will be $1200ish.
Be Very careful..... Audiophile disease, after a while, is incurable. I'm a goner, save yourself. 😉
|
