Best bookshelf speakers

A pretty many topics of interest, but I do not know what bookshelf speakers are? Can somebody please tell me?

Stuff Jones,
Sounds like we're at about the same stage.  I bought the S400's and they just arrived so haven't gotten to listen to them just yet.  Great experience so far.  Good luck on your journey putting together a system you can enjoy for years to come.  Such a subjective thing (what sounds good).  And so many variables and idiosyncrasies to everyone's listening environment.

The S400's piqued my interest because of the reviews and I'm expecting  they will hold their own against other speakers of similar price/category.  They'll be playing in the local Best Buy Magnolia room along side the ML, DT and B&W speakers so I'll have some sense of that pretty quickly.

I figure the big names started out as the little guys making good speakers with a compelling value proposition in their segment.  That's what I hope Buchardt is producing and what I bought into. 

Good luck :-)

@mrfungi - looking forward to your impressions. There’s not much info on them online and I’m always a little suspicious of over the top early buzz on a product. But that return policy covers you.

As of now, I’m leaning heavily towards the Philharmonic BMRs. I can’t order until next month when I move so I still have some time to deliberate but those look like the best value proposition right now if you can convince yourself to get over the large size. The guy makes them at barely over the cost of the parts, according to several reviewers.

Five speakers have piqued my curiosity after wasting way too much time on this.

Buchardt S400
Silverline Minuet Grand
Philharmonic BMR
Fritz Carrera 7 BE (going for 2800 now)
Xavian Perla Exclusive

The Fritz and BMRs seem to have the most and most reliable user impressions around them but the latter is half the price of the former. Silverline has a great brand reputation but not much user feedback on the Grands. 

How about any of the Focal Shape speakers? I have a pair of 40s and 65s around the house, built in amps. Hard to beat for the money.

If you want passive, add Aerial 5Ts to your audition list. I have a pair too and they are by far one of my favorite speakers.

Studio Electric M4. 

Buchardt S400’s are on my list. Trying to finish my amplification first but I’m hoping in a year or two I’ll get them.

Smaller speakers tend to have less bass. I recommend at least 6.5"woofer. Also consider active speakers/studio monitors from Dynaudio, Focal , & Genelec . If you could stretch your budget a little, a pair of used Harbeth M30.1 are great passive speakers.

Still more than a few without mention so far (AFAIK) ... such as ProAc and Sonus Faber ... perhaps more than a touch of warmth depending on system matching and your ears/preferences, but do the critical mids pretty well. 

@Stuff Jones I'll update on here for  :-)

You know what some enterprising member should do? Record every speaker in existence with the same HQ recording equipment and post on Youtube. Then record every speaker with every combination of gear.

Thanks in advance! 

;)

Studio Electric M4. 

@audiotroy Quad is affiliated with IAG as is Audiolab, Castle Acoustics, Luxman, Mission, Quad and Wharfedale.  IAG creates and Quad uses as do all the other brands part of IAG.  I am curious how these loudspeakers differ, or a they just the same with a different shell and marketing scheme.

Merlin TSM are pretty neutral.

Mindless Quad is a division of IAG if you look at Wharfdale completely different drivers, technology, cabinets both brands owned by same company.

It is like GM brands Corvette and Oldsmobile same parent different kids.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

Not sure what to do.  They're ok.  My receiver doesn't have enough power.  But after playing them on a new Denon 8500 via my local best buy magnolia room and, it was about the same only louder.  Clear but not very bright.  Mads was cool and says to keep breaking them in so I am. But I think I ruined myself by playing them side by side with the B&W 707 S2's while in that magnolia room.  So much clearer on the high's.  I really wanted/hoped the S400's would have outdone them

From what I’ve read, and in an email from Mads, they require at least 300 hours breakin and need some power.

Merlin TSM
ProAc 1SC

Granted, I am a Harbeth fanboy, but I think you should give the Harbeth P3esr speakers a listen. In your price range, I also like the KEF LS50s, but I think if you can pony up a few $100 more, the Harbeths will meet all your requirements.

Note: the P3esr speakers start to attenuate at 75hz, but don’t pay any attention to that and just listen to them. I ended up adding a sub (two is better), but they really don’t need them. If you end up with the Harbeths, you’ll probably end up buying a sub or two down the road (I love spending other people's money)!

From what I’ve read, and in an email from Mads, they require at least 300 hours breakin and need some power.

Great, so just when the 30 day in home trial is expiring they may sound like they're supposed to.

Certainly lots of choices in the is price range, but my shortlist would definitely include the KEF LS-50, especially at their new improved $999 price. That even leaves a cool $1000 subwoofer budget.  180 degrees away, Magneplanar .7s offer size, speed, and transparency that no cone-based speaker can offer in this price range.  And kinda/sorta in between, the GoldenEar Model 5 and Model 7 have more than a little street cred.  I mention these because the each represent a pinnacle of engineering, execution, and sound quality in their type and budget: mini-monitor, planar, and small floor-standing tower.

I have green mountain audio monitors on Skyland stands (EOSHX), driven by a oppo 105 and LFD integrated amp.  Anyone in the SF/Sacramento area can come by for listen.

If they can be found I recommend the Callisto speakers.  I have seen them used for around 1k.  6moons gave them a review in 2005.  

These are luxury products and I think most of us are expecting a luxury buying experience. Ordering something on the internet with a generous return policy is NOT a luxury buying experience. Buying my Focals was, without a doubt, a luxury buying experience.

One risk with the big boys is that they will decimate your investment as soon as they liquidate. Upscale Audio for example has the Stella Utopia marked down to 50k from the original 119k....and many more Focal's on clearance. 

You will never see Harbeth, Devore, or other boutique shops with a 50% off blowout sale. Boutique shops by their very definition do not do fleet sales to Underwood Hifi or Upscale Audio. Having said that, if you can get something you like on clearance, go for it! Those are both good dealers with great specials. 

Here’s something worth considering- 
look for a used pair of stand mounted Sonus Faber Cremona Auditors- after reading what you are after, Jazz, midrange m, 2 grand to spend, I think you would be over the moon with a pair of em’ - 
just my .02

The internet direct companies use higher quality drivers than retail brands, which means their speakers will typically have better axial response, dynamics, and distortion measurements (especially spectral decay). Also sometimes the cabinets have better bracing and thicker baffles. This is usually a matter of economies, ID companies simply don't have as much corporate overhead as a retail brand and can spend more $ on parts.

I would say the main downside for internet direct vs retail (other than looks, i.e. cabinet build quality and finishes) is dispersion. Because these are off the shelf drivers, they don’t have custom baffles or waveguides for proper directivity control, and may have some pretty ugly polar response measurements.

That said plenty of retail brands simply use off the shelf drivers as well, so we’re talking about a few good retail brands.

Seadiamonds really?

Most internet direct companies are tiny companies that buy drivers from other larger driver OEM companies.

Companies like KEF, B&W, Quad, and many other large companies design and engineer drivers that use proprietary technologies that these tiny companies could never afford to impliment, so you are correct you are paying for advertising, your are also dealing with companies that have ecconomies of scale that tiny companies can't afford.

So there are too sides to this arguement.

Dave and Troy
Audio Doctor NJ

This thread is fun, but also nuts. The best advice I can give is go look up local dealers, check out what brands they carry, then make a shortlist and have as many auditions as possible, ideally with your own gear. Speakers are completely subjective things and one person’s audio nirvana will sound utterly crud to the next person.  Remember also that the actual space footprint of a mini bookshelf on stands may be no smaller whatsoever to a slim floorstander.

"Tiny companies" that buy drivers from OEM driver manufactures such as Seas and Scanspeak, which are held by larger companies, seam to do just fine in R&D. Not sure if you call Devore 'tiny' but they buy some of their drivers from Seas and their speakers seem to be highly thought of.  Zu uses /Eminence drivers and they are a major player in making drivers and seem to be well thought of by musicians who use their drivers in guitar amps and other A/V implementations.

Just like other industries, many speaker companies are subsidiaries of other A/V companies with most manufacturing in China.

Heck, B&W was bought by a automation company (EVA Automation), former 49er owner I believe.  Not sure what their plan is, but they have no experience in speaker manufacturing.  I presume they want to use the B&W name and integrate something with streaming and home automation.  Is their R&D going to driver development, or something mainstream that brings in revenue along with some automation plan.

I think implementation and integration of the speaker is more critical than a 'in-house' driver technology. 

My issue with small companies is resale and a legacy plan if by chance the owner becomes ill, or retires.  I am aware Madisound has driver matching, but I am still concerned the replacement driver may not have the exact same measurements of the original.

I agree with moto, let your ears be the deciding factor based on your buying criteria.  

  

I am watching this thread with great interest, because I have a very similar question to pose. My beloved NS1000m Yamahas are overpowering my 'cave in the loft' (albeit fully soundproofed) - proven by the fact I plugged in some Beovox s45's and the acoustic measurements are vastly superior. I was very curious about the writer who dismissed the 3a DeCapo because I have heard them and astonished with how natural they sounded.
Anyway my list have thus far comprised:
Kef R3
Reference 3a Dulcet Be
Acoustic Energy Reference
ProAc Tablette Signature

I really want a high end sound from a 5-6 inch driver speaker.

@motokokusanagi1
This thread is fun, but also nuts. The best advice I can give is go look up local dealers, check out what brands they carry, then make a shortlist and have as many auditions as possible, ideally with your own gear. Speakers are completely subjective things and one person’s audio nirvana will sound utterly crud to the next person. Remember also that the actual space footprint of a mini bookshelf on stands may be no smaller whatsoever to a slim floorstander

I’m building a system from scratch. Of course in a perfect world you’d be able to go to the few dealers near you and try all the speakers on your radar, including the direct sale models, with all the amps on your radar and all the DACs. That’s obviously not possible. Instead you have a very limited selection of gear in your vicinity that is not representative of the best gear at your price point in the world.

The problem and beauty of this hobby, I'm learning, is that there's so much good gear coming from so many different tiny manufacturers. If you're buying a laptop or a car, you more or less know the universe of manufacturers and can pick from among their models. I'm over a month into my research on this and am still discovering gear that I think I should be looking into. 

A small floorstander might do the trick too, but so far none have piqued my interest. Any suggestions?

Not sure what your listening space is, but mine has always allowed a 7ft equilateral triangle and sometimes 9ft in my living room.... 
Latest arrival in my 7ft triangle is an old pair of totem hawks,  and this is the best compromise i have ever had, between small size, deep bass, easy placement, relatively easy to drive, dynamics, sweet spot, and  fantastic stage and imaging.  They have been around for about 20 years and they are not cheap.  But i think that they do what an audiophile wants in a small package.
Maybe the totem sky measure up and  more at a lower price point.  There's always the used market.

I purchased the Devore Fidelity 3XL's and haven't look back. They are definitely worth a look. I couldn't be more pleased. 

A small floorstander might do the trick too, but so far none have piqued my interest. Any suggestions?

-- Living Voice Auditorium sounds to me like your perfect speaker, but they’re way above your budget new http://www.borderpatrol.net/livingvoiceloudspeakers.htm

Another variable is synergy with a given amp and interaction with your room, hence the need to go visit some dealers and just get some initial pointers on viable systems.

Brands/Models I’d recommend to try to hear are the Nola Boxer, various Totems, Harbeth P3-ESR and the ATC SCM11s. All have their attendant compromises, but broadly fit your stated sonic preferences.

Two current listings that catch my eye both happen to be Italian! 
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis99e4g-opera-mezza-bookshelf-speakers-cherry-pair-13119-monitors...
https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis99848-diapason-audio-neos-full-range

Trying to glean more wisdom from the audiogon vets:

What are your thoughts on using a disproportionate portion of a system budget on "endgame" speakers and skimping a little on electronics? You can slowly upgrade your electronics to get more out of your speakers if you’re not satisfied/curious.

I think it was Steve Gutenberg who recommended a 50:33:17 speaker:amp:dac cost ratio. What if you do something more like 70:20:10? Will you get better SQ out of a more balanced "Gutenberg distribution", given a fixed budget?

I think you should throw as much money at the speaker you feasibly can to prevent the immediate upgrade bug.  Selling speakers are a pain and I consider speakers furniture/art.  

Depending on your room it is one of the 1st items people see.  My main music room is off the foyer in what is traditionally a formal living room.   There have been many speakers I would consider, but am concerned about their looks.  

I use the virtual system portion of Audiogon to find speakers that I find appealing in a room with similar style. It is one of the reasons I am looking at the Devore o/96.  I think they are very nice looking speaker.   

I think it was Steve Gutenberg who recommended a 50:33:17 speaker:amp:dac cost ratio. What if you do something more like 70:20:10? Will you get better SQ out of a more balanced "Gutenberg distribution", given a fixed budget?

I think it's more to illustrate a principle - DACs generally have faster diminishing returns than amps and speakers - rather than to be taken literally.

For example say one had a total budget of $10k and was buying new, you could make a great system with say a Metrum Jade / Chord Qutest, Primaluna Dialogue 2 (I think you might like tubes, btw) and Living Voice Auditorium speakers. One can also find a lot of integrated amps nowadays with built-in DACs, and don't at all discount buying used for big savings.  

This is so damned unpopular with audiophiles but I'd argue that if you spent 10/20/30% of that budget on room acoustic treatments (bass traps, panels, diffusers), you'd get even better sound than any gear upgrade...

Sony ss-3ar I think the model is. Better than the Rogers.  The first sl I heard was nice but new they are $9k

It seems you are gravitating to the smaller companies and there is definitely merit to that. I used to own KEF reference from the 90's for many years, but since then had moved on and was not particularly a fan of their more recent affordable lines. I have to say though, the new R line is a completely different animal to the the old ones. I think you'd be doing yourself a disservice NOT comparing whatever your finalists are to the new R3. It is that good. 

How big of a factor should warranty be in making a decision? I see a range of warranties from 10 years to no  warranty. 

Do speakers fail?

@clarinetmonster2

I'll check out the KEFs. 

I like KEF's (listening to Q150's on my desktop right now), but I think the BMR might be the best deal speaker deal in HiFi. Its like a mini-tower and you won't need a sub. You just need the right space for them as they are large. You will need a good amp, but since these are well below budget you can have extra funds available. I'd check out Van Alstine, Odyssey, Job225, Wyred4Sound, or even a Peachtree 150 or 300 and I'd look used too as you can almost always find great deals. Also for good stands check out the Monoprice Monolith stands for about $100. The 24" would be perfect for the BMR. Good luck.

@ erik_squires

I believe the Revel M126Be, which is $4,000, has slightly better than the 10 x 1 driver ratio cost you listed.

The tweeters are SB acoustics Be tweeters, which from what I can see around $770/pair. And the woofer is a 6" SB acoustics ceramic which looks like go for $173/pair. So right there you have a 4 to 1 ratio. Now obviously they get better pricing than through OEMs like Madisound, but I suspect it isn't more than 25% cheaper. 

I believe the Revel M126Be, which is $4,000, has slightly better than the 10 x 1 driver ratio cost you listed.

SB gives amazing discounts to volume purchasers. Look at the prices for the Tekton series with 20 or so $30 tweeters.

So, I'm pretty sure they revels are still around 10:1.

Just try to run through the math. Standard dealer markup is 45% ...

@abd1

The BMRs are very high on my list, but have slid a bit for two reasons.

1. The low sensitivity and need for a more powerful amp means that some of the cost savings are offset by having to buy a more powerful amp. And high wattage amps cost more money to get the same sound quality as lower powered amps, right? 

2. The midrange. There are reports its a little recessed and not dynamic which makes sense given that small flat BMR for the midrange. What are your thoughts on the mids?

@stuff_jones

1. I would say that unless you're really cranking the volume (over 95db) then I wouldn't worry too much about the sensitivity. You can often find great amps/integrateds on the used market that can easily handle these speakers. I just saw an ad come up for a pair of Odyssey monoblocks come up for about $800 for the pair. Those are killer amps that can drive anything and sound great. Check it out. Those will sell fast, but Odyssey's come up used fairly often. I wouldn't hesitate to use them with BMRs. For $400-$500 you can get a new NuForce STA-200 amp. It will also sound great with the BMRs. This amp uses a circuit from Goldmund of Switzerland (super hi-end stuff) and is almost exactly the same as the Job225 amp (built by Goldmund). I have both amps and I can't really tell a difference. They easily power anything I've hooked up to them. Those are just a couple quick options, but finding a great amp for the BMRs isn't tough. You could also use an integrated like a Peachtree 150 or 300. Those would sound amazing with the BMRs. 

2. The BMR driver looks odd, but it works great as a midrange. It has great dispersion, and the midbass is covered by the 7" driver, which extends down to the mid-30hz region. But it does look odd.

I just read where someone is comparing the BMRs with the Ascend Sierra RAAL tower and he said he can hardly hear a difference (and that's comparing to the tower). Check it out here.

Last thing I'd add is that someone posted checking out a used pair of Totem Hawks as small towers and I also owned those and would agree that if you want a small tower and can find a used pair ($1000-1500) you're getting a fantastic speaker. Those love power too, so the amp recommendations are the same, but those are great little speakers that sound huge. I prefer the RAAL tweeter to the tweeter in the Hawks, but other than that the Hawks are great and have a great small form factor.

@abd1 Have you heard the BMRs? Are the mids at all recessed? How are the dynamics and transients? How is timbre? 

As I posted in my OP, mids are most important for me so the slight concerns about the mids I read somewhere put me off. 

I do love the idea of great dispersion. I can't imagine only listening to music sitting in one place. To me that would drastically cut the amount of time I could enjoy my system.