Best bookshelf speakers

What about the Guru Jr? I like their tiny size, range and the fact that they can be squeezed up near a wall. Reviews are stellar too and the clip on youtube (I know I know) sounds really transparent and extended. 

But I can't find them for sale in the US. 

How’s the realism of the timbre on a ribbon?

Also I heard the width of dispersion is ok but vertically the Sierra 2s are limited. True?

Any other suggestions?

Bass only goes down to 55 Hz on the Focals though. Can they manage without a sub? Do they have that famous Focal brightness?

 Von Schweikert VR-1

Are these still available?

Is the  LS3/5A overly smooth and rolled off on both ends like British speakers are (in)famous for?

Fritz is an interesting option. Their only speaker under 2k with regular pricing is the Morel 6, which appears to be super warm and not too transparent. 

The used route is obviously better value but are warranties usually transferable? 

Thanks everybody for the suggestions. The diversity of options and lack of consensus is a bit overwhelming!

I think one good way to narrow down the field is just looking at those manufacturers using the direct sales model and offering a generous return program. 

For one, you're getting more speaker for your buck cutting out the middleman and I assume there's some correlation between speaker manufacture cost and sound quality, even if it's not 1. 

Also the return policy of course reduces your risk. Maybe buy a few and demo them at the same time and return the ones that lose out?

Who are the direct sellers? Ascend, Buchardt,  Philharmonic Audio... any of the other contenders using the direct sales model? 

Full confession: a lot of my research is based on youtube listening samples.

The Legacy’s sound a little bright to me.

I love the transparency the mids with the BBC style monitors. The Spendor A1 sounds especially nice, and the small size and closed design is convenient for apartment dwelling. But I can’t live with only 55hz bass.

Do any of the smaller BBC variants go closer to 40?

^ Cutting out a significant margin must mean more speaker for your dollar, all else equal right? If you shave off the retailers 40 percent or whatever, the consumer is getting those savings.

As far as criticizing direct sellers for not making their own drivers - That seems like criticizing Lenovo for not making their own CPUs. It's the final product that matters, right? 

Used loses you the warranty though, right? Is speaker failure a thing, outside long term degradation of the woofer/supports?

Is there much of a "lemon" risk buying used?

But this is a tangent. I'm perfectly happy to buy from a large manufacturer if it seems like the best speaker for my preferences and dollar and I have  a way to try it.

Buchardt apparently took 5402 acoustic measurement points with a robotic nearfield scanner in making the waveguide for their new speakers, fwiw. 

I'm leery of marketing based on fancy sounding processes though. Isn't the ear the ultimate arbitrator of a speakers worth, not the cool technology that went into it? Since SQ is so subjective, it's easy for our impression to be moved by claims of fancy technology ie snake oil. That's not to say R&D doesn't matter (I'm no luddite), but the ends justify the means, not the other way around IMO. 

And at least judging by my research so far, a very good share of the most recommend SQ for buck speakers are smaller companies. Again admittedly second hand information, but these are other peoples ears and I don't see what bias they would have to favor these smaller brands a lot of the time.

As far as a luxury buying experience, that's not important to me. I want a low risk buying experience which to me means trying at home with the option of returning. Also a manufacturer who stands behind their product and I think small companies may tend to do that better in general (they have to to keep their heads above water).

@ whoopycat Trenner & Friedl look amazing ( and sounds amazing in this demo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A5R4Eplg1z4)

@ 2y2ret - Thanks, I hadn't seen those and they look really good. Nice and small too and well within my budget.

Somewhat tempted by the Genelec M040s. Add a decent DAC and controller and you have what should be super transparent but listenable sound at about 2k total.

p.s. sorry for the bait and switch on my budget with this thread...

I think I'm going to actually go much cheaper than the 2k I put in this thread. In looking at speakers <2k range it seemed like I needed to spend a little more to get something that I wouldn't regret later. Something like the Trenner and Friedl or Fritz. And then I would have to upgrade my electronics purchase to be well matched with my more expensive speakers and then my overall budget would be blown up. And then I wouldn't enjoy my purchases because I'd be hyper critical having spent so much - at least that's what happened when I ventured into top of the line IEMs and DAPs.

So it looks I'll try the Silverline Minuet Supreme Plus. They look like the most balanced very small speaker under 1k. Then I'm thinking of pairing it with Spark Audio Vista and the very capable (with IEMs at least) LH Geekout V2A DAC. On paper at least that should get me capable sound at around 1k which I won't agonize over (until/unless upgrade-itis strikes).  Obviously the Supreme Plus' will have their bass limitations, but its a lot easier to swallow those compromises at 700 than 1700.

Any reason to expect that the Supreme Plus' and Vista won't be a good pairing?

@ihor I looked at the Omegas - I love the idea of simplicity and midrange purity. But I heard the single driver struggles with more complex music - is that true?

Just a general observation - why are speaker demos usually done with really simple music? Like this, for example:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A1LFGvRtPlw

Has anyone here heard the Xavian Perla Exclusive? They've gotten several stellar reviews and look amazing. Price is around 2k shipped to the US, but no US dealers so a bit risky.

@mrfungi - looking forward to your impressions. There’s not much info on them online and I’m always a little suspicious of over the top early buzz on a product. But that return policy covers you.

As of now, I’m leaning heavily towards the Philharmonic BMRs. I can’t order until next month when I move so I still have some time to deliberate but those look like the best value proposition right now if you can convince yourself to get over the large size. The guy makes them at barely over the cost of the parts, according to several reviewers.

Five speakers have piqued my curiosity after wasting way too much time on this.

Buchardt S400
Silverline Minuet Grand
Philharmonic BMR
Fritz Carrera 7 BE (going for 2800 now)
Xavian Perla Exclusive

The Fritz and BMRs seem to have the most and most reliable user impressions around them but the latter is half the price of the former. Silverline has a great brand reputation but not much user feedback on the Grands. 

You know what some enterprising member should do? Record every speaker in existence with the same HQ recording equipment and post on Youtube. Then record every speaker with every combination of gear.

Thanks in advance! 

;)

From what I’ve read, and in an email from Mads, they require at least 300 hours breakin and need some power.

Great, so just when the 30 day in home trial is expiring they may sound like they're supposed to.

@motokokusanagi1
This thread is fun, but also nuts. The best advice I can give is go look up local dealers, check out what brands they carry, then make a shortlist and have as many auditions as possible, ideally with your own gear. Speakers are completely subjective things and one person’s audio nirvana will sound utterly crud to the next person. Remember also that the actual space footprint of a mini bookshelf on stands may be no smaller whatsoever to a slim floorstander

I’m building a system from scratch. Of course in a perfect world you’d be able to go to the few dealers near you and try all the speakers on your radar, including the direct sale models, with all the amps on your radar and all the DACs. That’s obviously not possible. Instead you have a very limited selection of gear in your vicinity that is not representative of the best gear at your price point in the world.

The problem and beauty of this hobby, I'm learning, is that there's so much good gear coming from so many different tiny manufacturers. If you're buying a laptop or a car, you more or less know the universe of manufacturers and can pick from among their models. I'm over a month into my research on this and am still discovering gear that I think I should be looking into. 

A small floorstander might do the trick too, but so far none have piqued my interest. Any suggestions?

Trying to glean more wisdom from the audiogon vets:

What are your thoughts on using a disproportionate portion of a system budget on "endgame" speakers and skimping a little on electronics? You can slowly upgrade your electronics to get more out of your speakers if you’re not satisfied/curious.

I think it was Steve Gutenberg who recommended a 50:33:17 speaker:amp:dac cost ratio. What if you do something more like 70:20:10? Will you get better SQ out of a more balanced "Gutenberg distribution", given a fixed budget?

How big of a factor should warranty be in making a decision? I see a range of warranties from 10 years to no  warranty. 

Do speakers fail?

@clarinetmonster2

I'll check out the KEFs. 

@abd1 Have you heard the BMRs? Are the mids at all recessed? How are the dynamics and transients? How is timbre? 

As I posted in my OP, mids are most important for me so the slight concerns about the mids I read somewhere put me off. 

I do love the idea of great dispersion. I can't imagine only listening to music sitting in one place. To me that would drastically cut the amount of time I could enjoy my system.

@abd1

The BMRs are very high on my list, but have slid a bit for two reasons.

1. The low sensitivity and need for a more powerful amp means that some of the cost savings are offset by having to buy a more powerful amp. And high wattage amps cost more money to get the same sound quality as lower powered amps, right? 

2. The midrange. There are reports its a little recessed and not dynamic which makes sense given that small flat BMR for the midrange. What are your thoughts on the mids?

How big of a factor should warranty be in making a decision? I see a range of warranties from 10 years to no warranty.

Do speakers fail?

Does anyone have any feedback on this? Should warranty be a factor at all in purchasing a speaker?

@cooper52

Which Fritz and Silverline did you hear?

A good warranty should be a factor in any purchase you make, including speakers. That said, speakers are generally very reliable pieces of equipment. For me personally, as I tend to buy used, I would not consider the lack of a warranty to be a deal breaker. This of course is dependent on age, condition, type of equipment, and from where and whom you are purchasing.....I would tend to be less concerned about a lack of warranty if looking to purchase speakers as opposed to other components.

There's a pair of used Totem Hawks near me which are tempting. However  the comments of this 2011 review of the Hawks show several users with damaged drivers needing replacement. I want to say its because the long throw Revelator but then one person blew out their tweeters. Is this a model specific thing? 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTVS0GCwNxg

Anyone have any experience with the PraAc Reference SM100s? They’re a bit over budget but used they could be a fit. Small and front ported so should be flexible with placement. Bass reported to the mid 30s but should be flat-ish given their reference use. Apparently very easy to listen to as reference monitors which bodes well for their hifi application.

I finally listened to some speakers, none of which were bookshelf speakers.

I heard the Tekton Hawks (used) and the Monitor Silver 200 and 300s with some new Adcom class G integrated and the Parasound Halo. The Adcom sounded thin with the Hawks and so I ended up doing most of my listening with the Halo.

The Hawks sounded dynamic with great transients and lots of details. The bass went low and was tight. They imaged really well. My issue was with the tweater. On some tracks it drew attention to itself with its sharpness. I think it would benefit from tubes, but they’re said to be power hungry so maybe a hybrid? Anyway, I could imagine having a love/hate relationship unless you got the amplification exactly right. That revelator woofer though was really impressive.

I’d be interested in learning which other reasonably priced speakers use Revelator woofers. I know the Fritz Carerra BE do. Any others around 2k?

Next I heard the Monitor Audio Silver 300s. They brought welcome warmth and body, but I found them a little overly warm/murky and maybe a little slow? A very pleasant listen though.

I actually liked the Silver 200s more, outside the fact that they didn’t go as low. They took that nice easy going warmth of the 300s but seemed a little bit clearer and quicker to me. Not sure the break in status of either MA and the Hawks were used so fully broken in. They were the speaker of the three I could see living with the easiest even if they weren’t the most impressive.

I do like the idea of a small profile floor stander now. I wonder though if the slim towers lose a little bit in dynamics compared event to a stand mounted speaker because of their smaller drivers.

Incidentally I heard some 100k plus system and it was super impressive like great special effects in a movie. It wasn’t really convincing musically. Great dynamics, range and clarity, but something was off tonally and it just sounded too hyped up. It was like some photoshop special effect that makes you think wow but that doesn’t look real.

Anti-climactic conclusion (for now).

I’ve spent way too much time researching gear. I was already struggling with setting a budget and feeling like if I just upped my budget a little I’d get to a higher level of sound quality that I could be content with. But then I would back down feeling guilty that I would be spending too much. I could imagine this iterating the rest of my life until eventually I had tens of thousands of dollars in my gear through a never ending cycle of this is amazing! elation/there’s x imperfection in my system, how can I upgrade? discontent.

I don’t want to go down that wormhole.

So I’ve ordered the new Vanatoo Transparent One Encores. I’ll probably add the RSL Speedwoofer 10s to fill out the sound.

I’ve got the Transparent Zeros on my desk and they sound really good and balanced, especially for the money. So good that I also bought a pair for my mom. Here’s a review: http://noaudiophile.com/Vanatoo_Transparent_Zero/.

So I thought I’d get the big brother to them and enjoy the music without thinking too much about gear and my wallet.

Sorry to all those spending time advising me. Hopefully someone else will benefit.

I ended up getting the Vanatoo One Encores at the presale price. They are outstanding, and not just for the money. You can find impressions of them on @taww's blog. I'm relieved to not have to agonize about a trillion different possible upgrade paths and just enjoy the music.

I've had the Encore Zeros on my desk and they are also excellent, but these are a different level.