Balanced/Differential tube preamplifier recommendation?

I should mention, my $2000 price is for new or used. Thanks

Schitt Freya+

+2 Schiit Freya+ preamp

Mike

I am looking for something a bit better than the Freya +. Thank you for your suggestion though

So have you listened to the Freya +? Or your basing that on? 

My son loves my old Freya + with his AGD Tempo Di GaN. Loves the flexibility and that it was inexpensive, he got a smoking deal on the AGD also. 

Good luck in your search. 

 I am looking for something a bit better than the Freya +

I would recommend looking for a used Audio Research, VAC, or Conrad Johnson. I would go back as far as necessary to meet your budget (make sure it is a tube preamp). These are world class preamps and will provide amazingly musical presentations. If you could stretch to $3K this would likely move you up a level.

Real audiophile preamps go beyond simple detail + bass into real musical reproduction. The preamp is the first component to bring up into the audiophile category if you can. It is the wingnut that holds it all together.

I bought my first audiophile preamp about 40 years ago… it was life changing.

mc1969, holy crap that's a heck of a amp. Someday I'd also like a GaN amp. I have heard the Freya+. It is a fine unit. It just seemed a bit lacking to me, all around, especially in the department of dynamics and tonal character 

ghdprentice, that is good advice. Do you happen to know if the listed manufacturers make their preamps fully differential? I know Audio Research in particular is very well regarded, and even their older designs are imitated even today

@thought9

Sorry I can’t tell you whether designs are fully differential or not, I make decisions on sound quality.

If you have five different designers, they can make a particular design sound completely different depending on the sound they want, the components they use, and all the ancillary components.

I know it is tempting to favor a particular design… but a great audio designer crafts the sound using everything from the case construction, the sound quality of each resistor, capacitor, tube, etc. choice. These guys are artists with science and engineering as their pallets.

These great companies have invested decades in research and development to achieve their sonic objectives, using what every technology that can get them there.

What preamp are you using now, and what improvements and sound characteristics are you looking for?  That’s gonna drive the decision more than anything else and get you much better recommendations here. 

ghdprentice, I do appreciate all of these things, and I would like to get a preamp that falls under that category, but for it to integrate with the rest of my system I do need a true balanced piece. Upping the budget to $3,000 is probably doable, though, especially if as you say it really makes a big difference. 

soix, I just sold my Topping Pre90, which is what I was using. Right now I'm just using an integrated amp I had lying around. The Pre90 was a quality preamp, but I found it lacking in dynamics, tonal character, and most significantly soundstage depth. I am after above all after a preamplifier with very wide holographic soundstage. I would like something that is warm and dynamic, that sweetens the sound without taking away its bite

steakster I've looked at that one. Would be perfect if it had a remote

+1 @ghdprentice although not sure CJ offers balanced preamps, and I agree you’re likely gonna have to up your budget a bit to get a fully balanced pre from the likes of VAC, ARC, Atma-Sphere, etc.  That said, there is this Audio GD pre from Underwood Hifi that would seem to check all your boxes, and at $2499 new it’s not all that much above your price target.  Worth checking out I’d think, and best of luck in your search. 

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lisb2a9a-audio-gd-vacuum-he-1-le-remote-10-tube-balanced-preamp-tube

Thanks soix. That's good info. You say VAC, ARC, Atma-Sphere etc.

Would you mind elaborating on the etc.? I am new to the world of high end modern equipment.

As for the Audio GD, I am very interested in that. I appreciate the tip. I used to own their NFB11 DAC/headphone amp, and I really loved it. I'll be doing some research on this preamp today

You do not need a differentially balanced preamp in order for it to integrate into your system, you just need balanced inputs and outputs.

What source are you using? @invalid is right but, as your amp is fully balanced, to preserve that you’d need a fully balanced pre rather than a pre with balanced connections but is not fully balanced from input to output. By requiring a fully balanced preamp you’ll greatly limit your choices at your price level, which is something to consider as going fully balanced is just one in a loooong list of design features that affect ultimate sound quality so you need to balance those based on what’s most important to you. Dual differential is nice to be sure, but it comes at a price as you’ve already discovered so weigh that against what you’d be giving up (i.e. maybe getting an even higher end single-ended pre rather than a lower-end balanced pre for the same $$$). Always trade offs in this hobby.

IME of the three brands mentioned the VAC will likely provide a little more warmth that you seem to be looking for while the ARC and Atma-Sphere will skew more neutral (although this can be altered by using different tubes) all of them make excellent preamps, and at this level it really comes down to personal tastes and system synergy, which is what can making an ultimate choice difficult. I don’t know if Underwood offers a return policy (maybe with a restocking fee, paying return shipping, etc.) on the Audio GD, but if so and depending on the terms that’d be well worth considering as nothing beats an in-home demo and it seems like a good fit from a respected designer. Hope this helps somewhat.

Yes it does help. It's unfortunate that the audio GD has so few reviews. It's at the top of my list right now though. My source is the Gustard R26. I am honestly not sold on the benefits of balanced, but as the rest of my system is balanced it would just gnaw at me to no end not to preserve that

Thanks for the info

@soix

+1

OP, I get that… hard to know what you don’t know.

Fyi. I have all ARC gear… it is fully balanced. I had both a pair of Transparent RCA and Balanced interconnects. ARC recommends using balanced. So, I tried both. It is really easy to set up both and toggle back and forth. I could not detect a difference. Note, this is a very high quality component, so ARC worked at doing a really good job of the conversion from internal balanced to unbalanced output. A lower level component or company might not and there could be a big difference.

XLR interconnects are much more expensive… I upgraded all of my interconnects to balanced… because, just like you, it would have gnawed at me that I was not using in the optimal mode. A typical audiophile reaction… we can’t let stuff go, and in the long run end up with spectacular sounding systems. It’s all this little stuff that adds up to,great sound.

Does ARC follow the balanced standard, Ralph has said in the past that they don't follow the balanced standard.

@invalid Wrote:

Does ARC follow the balanced standard,

No! The method specified by AES48 is to use balanced lines and tie the cable shield to the metal chassis (right where it enters the chassis) at both ends of the cable. See below figure 1a:

Mike

https://www.ranecommercial.com/kb_article.php?article=2107

steakster I've looked at that one. Would be perfect if it had a remote

@thought9 FWIW a remote volume control is available for the MP-3.

atmasphere really now? Is the IR sensor built into the preamp, and all that needs to be done is for a remote to be bought separately? Or do I need to buy a unit that is custom ordered with a remote receiver?

I have the Audio GD HE-1 SE 10 tube preamp....It's a beautiful sounding pre for the $$$...can't go wrong. I paired it w/ the Peachtree GaN 400 and it's  magic... Good Luck to you.....

atmasphere really now? Is the IR sensor built into the preamp, and all that needs to be done is for a remote to be bought separately? Or do I need to buy a unit that is custom ordered with a remote receiver?

@thought9 If its got a remote installed its all set to go- the handheld unit should be with it. Its an option- some people prefer the stepped volume control instead, which can't be motorized.

@atmasphere alright, that makes sense. Why can't the existing attenuator be motorized? It is a resistor ladder? I know of plenty of preamps that can be controlled with a remote that use resistor ladders

Why can't the existing attenuator be motorized?

@thought9 The control has to have 4 decks because its controlling both the inverted and non-inverted phases of the signal. The stepped control has to not exceed a certain size. The switch we use can't handle the torque a motor will put on it due to the lack of a bushing in the design.

bushing in the design. @atmasphere ok, I understand. In the units with a motorized attenuator, do you just use a regular potentiometer?

@thought9 Yes, if a 4-dech control can be considered 'regular'. Turns out that due to a change we made in the volume taper about 8 years ago that the difference between the stepped control and the pot was mostly eliminated.

@atmasphere mostly eliminated.

in that case why not make the full switch? Your popularity seems to be shunted majorly by the lack of a remote control being standard in your offerings 

@atmasphere no offense meant by the way. I just mean to convey that today, remote controls are very important to most audiophiles, especially at the level that your firm operates

@thought9 I get it- back in the 90s we studied the remote issue for years; nothing was out there are the time that was at the level of our master control in the MP-1. So that remote didn't show up until the early 2000s. The MP-3 was harder due to the Electroswitch control, which was already a custom part and we are pressed for space. However the big change we did several years ago with the volume taper took a lot of issues off of the table. I used the phrase 'mostly eliminated' the same way one would use the word 'virtually' in that there is likely a difference, but I can't hear it and the preamp actually measures better. I don't doubt that someone might hear it (or claim to, which is different...). The trick is eliminating issues with Miller Effect at the input of the line stage. By changing the taper and the overall value of the control we vastly reduced the Miller Effect problems. 

@atmasphere well it seems you've put a lot of thought into it, so I trust the conclusion you've come to. Someday, if I can afford it, Atma-Sphere will be at the top of my list for a balanced tube preamp.

@mbmi hI, thanks for the info. Could you elaborate on your thoughts on the unit? What other pres have you had before to compare it to?

thought9,

I own an Atma-Sphere MP-3 which I bought used without remote capability and sent it back to Ralph for the upgrade. The remote volume works great and I can't hear a difference from the original stepped control. I paid less than $3k for mine so if you can stretch your budget a bit it's a great preamp.

@armstrod how much did it cost you to get the remote mod?

thought9,

PM'd you.

Have you considered a used BAT preamp.  I've been very happy with my VK-3IX, so much so I'm looking to move up the line.  And yes, it does have remote capability.  I bought mine used without a remote but found a Logitech Harmony works just fine.

You might find an Allnic L3000 in that price range. Allnic is holographic transformer balanced and has a remote

Everyone promotes what they have and each piece that's been spoken about in this thread is a good option albeit some won't come in under $2K. Stretch a bit and go for a used (if u can find one) Aesthetix Calypso. I use a Calypso Sig & it's truly a spectacular piece. Just my opinion 

I have had a few preamps that are within your price range (new or used):

• Topping pre90 (a PIA to use and does not work well GAIN wise with a lot of amps)
• Benchmark LA4 (no euphoric sound with this one)
• Holo Serene (like the LA4 but a touch warmer)
• Schitt Freya+ (tubes, low, cost. but not as clean sounding as I like)
• BAT VK-42SE
• Bryston BP-20
• CODA 07x (tubey sound and a lower model CODA pre maybe something to consider)

The LA4 and Serene are what I chose over all of the above. If you want a tubey sound the CODA 07x can be found for $4k and the model lower in the range around $2k.

I would recommend the Holo Serene to you, especially for someone who has owned the Topping pre90. Read the review that compares it to the LA4. There is a used one on USAM for $2.5K.

The BAT is also pretty good for something with a warm sound. I preferred it over the Freya+.

IMO stick with balanced. Have had both. Somehow balanced eliminates some types od electrical noise that isn't noticeable using single ended but moves out of the way with balanced. True balanced BAT equipment seemed more immediate to me.