A gentleman must explain himself when he claim that what another gentleman said is bullshit...

Thanks...

Explaining…in this context bullshit is simply the overwhelming quantity of the verbal diarrhea that’s been exhibited here. Naturally with such a high quantity the quality degrades, turning this all into…you guessed it…bullshit. 

A short version of it, as you admit, your ego is too big and you post too much. 
 

P.S. still wasn’t the right time to bust your chops ha. LOL
 

I can accept that because i speak too much and i dont have a too small ego...Only an idiot will try to hide what is evident... 😊

And i can accept to be criticized when the person dont spam and dont mainly insult .. 😊

Now i am sorry but i am retired and in spite of my defects some appreciate some of my posts,..,. Then i will go on...

I recommend you slide over them...

😊

 

 

By the way how many emails of appreciation about some of your ideas and propositions  have you received yourself in the last  year here from unknown people  ?

Answer please....

Give me the number...😁

Then this private responses by unknown people  prove i had been helpful or inspirational  many times... Enough to justify my desire to discuss here ...I like people and discussions..

End of the matter ...

 

Explaining…in this context bullshit is simply the overwhelming quantity of the verbal diarrhea that’s been exhibited here. Naturally with such a high quantity the quality degrades, turning this all into…you guessed it…bullshit.

A short version of it, as you admit, your ego is too big and you post too much.

P.S. still wasn’t the right time to bust your chops ha. LOL

 

 

By the way how many emails of appreciation about some ideas have you received yourself in the last here from unknown people here ?

I don’t count but received plenty over the years. Just got one from a member here yesterday thanking me for an advice I had provided.

I believe you because i know you a bit enough to know you as a trustworthy person ...😊

Now why to presume that all of what i spoke about in all threads is only and mostly bullshit and take on you in this original last thread of mine to say it to my face and only intervening to say this is bullshit, presupposing you know me perfectly and know that all people here must think as you ?

Answer...😊

You dont like my words count and posts count... This is Ok

Is it enough to enter a thread after a spamming idiot and saying to me that i bullshit ?

The answer is no...

But you are not a bad guy at all ... you have more humor than me... And i take your critic about me...

But dont bullshit my thread because my question here make perfect sense for many people...

😊

I thank you for this viril,frank, and sincere exhange...

my pleasure to speak with you...

my sincere best ...As always to you ....

 

I don’t count but received plenty over the years. Just got one from a member here yesterday thanking me for an advice I had provided.

🐂 💩 as in quantity not necessarily quality. That phrase usually describes someone who talks too much. Which you know you’re guilty of. With this many extremely lengthy posts you lose most of your audience (or am I just speaking for myself) and that kind of makes it bullshit. I for one can’t make it through some of your single posts. If you can be a bit more succinct I think it will be great success (stole that one from Borat). No offense. Just an honest opinion.

here’s a clip to cheer you up…

 

The fact that you did not even consider this thread many responses value as an invitation to speak about the matter after my honest question and insisted to make a point about my post lenght reveal that your intention was only disparaging me ...

You even add a cartoon which way of communication as spam i dislike...

Perhaps you can dislike my number of words but at least i respect people...

 

Why not applying to yourself your own advice?.

Why repeating in all these last posts the same critics about my words count ?

Why not stay silent once your point has been made ONE TIME ?

Do you feel better ?

By the way i will stay myself , and speak as i see fit for me ...

Spare me and to others the same critic and dont push my button anymore...

Glide over my posts...

 

Thanks

 

 

 

 

 

I found it of value. I even contributed above somewhere deep in the jungle of your responses. Man you need to cheer up. Why so serious

And by the way that wasn’t a cartoon. It’s from a movie called History Of The World. Mel Brooks. A true classic! You should check it out.

 Ok i am too serious ...

But i am a bit tired of these critics about my words count...

My best to you...

 

Well if you’re free to rant, I’m free to say what I think about it. 

 

But i am a bit tired of these critics about my words count...

The world doesn’t revolve around you. 

Now your opinion is said...

As you said the world does not revolve around you or me nor around my world count ...

And in this thread i asked other experiences and i read them and i thank them ...

Call that a rant , i call that a thread about a not so often question in this Forum...

I will wait for others to spoke about it ...

You are welcome to say something about the question asked...

my words count will stay as it is...Dont push my button anynmore , everybody has read and understood ...

the thread is about a question , now that your rant about me is done we can wait for others opinions about the thread question...

Thanks

 

There is a price to pay if we neglect to study and experiment with acoustics... ( not to mention mechanical and electrical embeddings controls)

Yes, so we will maintain Mahgister’s acoustically tweaked out splendid room as the baseline.

____BASELINE - MAHGISTER’S ACOUSTICALLY ENHANCED ROOM ____

Now, there is an experiment that can be conducted to test Mahgister’s amazement with his low cost system.

It will be conducted as follows:

- Maghister sits with a blindfold in his room so he can’t tell what speakers/electronics were brought into his room and what they cost.

- We will do a couple of swaps on Mahgister’s favorite tracks between his amazing low cost gear and the other test pieces that are brought in.

If Maghister picks his low cost gear as the truly amazing satisfying system over and over (as he sits blindfolded), then, that’s all there is to it.

But, if Maghister picks other gear that someone else brought in for the test (after he heard it in his room), Maghister could get exposed in front of all the audio nerds. Only Trudeau could possibly console the great Mahgister and control the ensuing prose, thereafter. 🤣

--First i never claimed that my room was an ideal acoustic model...( it was more an unesthetical laboratory for trials and experiments) At the end i was satisfied.. Thats all ...I learned by experiments in my room . Period. Who can put 100 tuned resonators in a living room anyway ?But my goal was to learn here not to propose an ideal room for all .😁

 

-- Second I called minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold a minimum threshold with enough balance between all factors implicated to be able to make possible a minimal satisfaction level relative to the gear designs used ...Higher end products cannot be replaced in performance by low cost one by the way . Only an idiot will suggest in ad hominem attack against me that i proposed my system as the TOP system there is instead of understanding my point about method... i never claimed something like that ...A living room cannot be a laboratory for experiments anyway...

 

--Third here we have someone using ad hominem attack against my claim that audiophile experience is possible at all costs if we learn how to embed the system in the room /house for specific ears...😊

 

-- Four This person attacking me not my argument conflate minimal acoustic satisfaction with maximal one when we use high end TOP products in acoustically designed room. I myself always distinguish the two...😊

 

-- Six I always used simple blind test in my acoustics experiments and devices experiments. I had nothing to prove PUBLICLY to anyone. I dont sell gear. I advise electrical, mechanical and acoustical embeddings methods of controls BEFORE upgrading to high cost products. The idea is to spare money and at least trying to understand some doable acoustic experiences BEFORE upgrading ...Then because i sold nothing and claim nothing about my gear/room , save my own satisfaction, i dont need to prove to some haters in a public double blind test that my product is good. I dont sell product. My method of adressing the way the gear work in these three dimensions is good. No need to blind test a method. We must use it FIRST because it work for any gear type at any cost.

 

I dont like spammers and i dont like ad hominem attacks by revengeful people Generally they are narrow mind to stay polite...😊

It seems the amount of disturbing posts here cannot be explained only by my too long posts counts or my "verbosity" as a non english speaking people as audphile rightfully point out... 😁

It seems my question hit a sensible pack of nerves on people not enough wise to understand or accept that any gear system at any price must be righfully embedded in his working dimensions to be optimal.

Then when the synergy is there, any system can give at any price at least a minimal acoustical satisfying experience...

It seems some narrow minds dont like my audio journey observations...They throw off too much money on gear perhaps and made not enough experiments and they hate if someone remind them of this simple necessity before buying or selling anything ..

😊

 

«Hate is explained by a lack of brain cells»--Anonymus neurophysiologist😎

«Sarcasm without real object is not hate but often stupidity»-- Anonymus audiogon poster

 

There is a price to pay if we neglect to study and experiment with acoustics... ( not to mention mechanical and electrical embeddings controls)

Yes, so we will maintain Mahgister’s acoustically tweaked out splendid room as the baseline.

____BASELINE - MAHGISTER’S ACOUSTICALLY ENHANCED ROOM ____

Now, there is an experiment that can be conducted to test Mahgister’s amazement with his low cost system.

It will be conducted as follows:

- Maghister sits with a blindfold in his room so he can’t tell what speakers/electronics were brought into his room and what they cost.

- We will do a couple of swaps on Mahgister’s favorite tracks between his amazing low cost gear and the other test pieces that are brought in.

If Maghister picks his low cost gear as the truly amazing satisfying system over and over (as he sits blindfolded), then, that’s all there is to it.

But, if Maghister picks other gear that someone else brought in for the test (after he heard it in his room), Maghister could get exposed in front of all the audio nerds. Only Trudeau could possibly console the great Mahgister and control the ensuing prose, thereafter. 🤣

 

 

 

 

-- Second I called minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold a minimum threshold with enough balance between all factors implicated to be able to make possible a minimal satisfaction level relative to the gear designs used

Yeah, whatever, your so called "minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold" is a moving threshold/target. It is not static depending on how many points of reference and exposure to higher performance gear, one may accrue over the years. Once you’ve lived with/tasted the latter, satisfaction with the junk one may have started with in their journey begins to dissipate.

I dont like spammers and i dont like ad hominem attacks by revengeful people

You are indeed a highly "imaginative" (to put it nicely) fella. Bye now.

-- Second I called minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold a minimum threshold with enough balance between all factors implicated to be able to make possible a minimal satisfaction level relative to the gear designs used

Yeah, whatever, your so called "minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold" is a moving threshold/target. It is not static depending on how many points of reference and exposure to higher performance gear, one may accrue over the years. Once you’ve lived with/tasted the latter, satisfaction with the junk one may have started with in their journey begins to dissipate.

 

 

You are so ignorant that it would be comical if it was not sad...😁

Let me explain for the benefit of all others here...

You wrote that my minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold is a "moving target" because what define audiophile experience for you is mainly and only "exposure to higher performances gears"...

You dont realize that you yourself linked your target to imperative upgrading in a race toward a costly alleged perfection as in high end publicity...Then you are yourself moving the target linking it to a chain of improving purchases... 😁

Me i use acoustics to define my stable targets , you you use high end gear price tags publicity for your moveable goal about gear perfection ...

You are so market conditioned that you did not know that all acoustic factors implied in any musical reproduction are defined first and last by acoustics concepts and the balance we can achieve( a relative balance for sure, but a balance) with all these acoustics parameters with a system room ... Not only and mainly by buying gear more and more pricier...

You dont know that because you confuse and conflate the word acoustics in the plural with the expression room acoustic in the singular mode as an adjective...

You ignore we can achieve a relative but real balance between the 5 parameters defining "timbre" for example with any system at any price for a relatively satisfying experience which will be minimal or maximal or in between ...

For sure all these systems we can buy will perform , under equal or slightly over the minimal acoustical satisfaction threshold... because to reach the maximal threshold we will need a completely dedicated room but it will not be enough we will need the best design existing then at high price...Mikelavigne system is in the maximal acoustical experience threshold window... Not because he bought the  costlier gear there is to buy, but because he designed a dedicated acoustic room for them and learn how to embed his system in the three working dimensions.

What you do not understand is that the concept of balance between the many acoustics concepts and parameters implied and with which we could play and improve will stay the same notions at work NEVERMIND THE PRICE OR THE DESIGN...

Do you catch what i spoke about ?

Take less times reading reviews of high end gear , less times attacking audiophile ad hominem just because you dont like that they pretend to be happy with their present low cost gear system because it is well installed....

And read more articles and papers on acoustical embeddings controls ( timbre and Immersinenes, listener envelopment and sound source dimensions ratio , spatial qualities and crosstalk etc ) more papers about the mechanical controls of vibrations and resonance, more papers about the electrical noise floor of the house-room-gear...

If you do that you will learn how to do more with less... And for sure, do i need to state that my low cost system will not beat the potential of your high end costlier own system especially if you had learn how to embed it well in his 3 working dimensions... ...

 

 

As you see now to explain that my words count must be minimally longer than the usual average poster ... 😊

 

As you said so amically , Bye now...

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

 

Hamlet by William Shakespeare.

I'ma fixing to call mom iffin y'all don't quit scrappin

I just spottin a thread where i can puckin my idiotic head

I’ma fixing to call mom iffin y’all don’t quit scrappin

Nothing wise to say about your relatively low cost system acoustic satisfaction ?

 

 

 

"The lady doth protest too much, methinks"

Ha ha!

We dont lack simpleton it seems...

 

Nothing wise to say about your relatively low cost system acoustic satisfaction ?

Dude, you must really think you're important. You're not. STFU already. It's beyond obnoxious. 

Dude, you must really think you’re important. You’re not. STFU already. It’s beyond obnoxious.

 

Why do I have a hotel room in your head? Is it because I’m of no real importance to you?😊

So explain to me why a thread about the importance of good sound/quality and price ratio gets you all worked up?

Why instead of a positive contribution or a reasoned opinion do you spit out a sentence as banal as it is useless precisely after a few angry simpletons did the same ?

 

By the way poor dude i am not important at all but the question which my thread ask for others opinions is...

 

Now suppose my thread is qualified of being obnoxious, this is an insult for all others testimonies and personal experiences here ...And there is many...

If it is not the thread which is obnoxious then it is me alone .. 😊

Then the only explanation for your useless post is your rageful desire to insult me...

Go on other thread my poor little hating soul , it will be better for your heart pressure ...

By the way STFU yourself...

 

Before quitting your pleasant company i will confide or confess  to you my sin. i am an idiot sometimes to reply to hate or narrow mind ... Then in this sense you are right. You see i can recognize my own limit... Being retired i like to discuss with other gentlemen about many audio or music related matter...I am not important but any conversation is important in a way or another...

 

 

 

«Only narrow mind take a question or an answer for a personal insult»-- Anonymus poster

 I will really like to hear others people experience with a relatively low cost piece of gear or a relatively low cost system...

"relatively" means  the price matter not, what matter is your own experience  as  owner...

Better late than never.

But it will be interesting to read their more detailed experience with their relatively low cost system versus a more costlier part or more costlier system...

After reading the infamous Stereo Review blind test of 1987(?) and subsequent tests and personal experiences, I stopped focusing on electronics except for their convenience features as long as their measurements check out, so for my main audio system I have a vintage Pioneer integrated amp. I've read a lot about speakers and decided I wanted to build my own, but I knew enough to know that I didn't know enough to design my own. So I selected a design from someone who did know enough. I chose to build BFM Davids with upgraded drivers. They cost $1100 to build. Total system cost, including DAC and laptop was approx $1900.

For my voice-activated office system all I cared about was that the preamp was Alexa-enabled and all types of distortion measured below the level of human hearing and the speakers were unobtrusive. For speakers I built a pair of Linkwitz LXMinis for $800. Total system cost approx $1400.

My guitar studio has JBL 30x speakers that are frequency-matched within 1 decibel. They cost around $300. The direct interface was $200. Laptop $300. One thing I always found funny is that in a huge number of cases the speakers used to engineer recordings are far cheaper than the speakers audiophiles use to play them back.

My living room and HT systems were much more expensive, but they serve a different purpose. However, I still bought them mostly used.

I will really like to hear others people experience with a relatively low cost piece of gear or a relatively low cost system...

"relatively" means the price matter not,

That’s an interesting definition of "relatively." So if the cost doesn’t matter, do you want to also hear from people with mega-$ systems?

It is already explained in a post above with even an exemple... Thanks...

That’s an interesting definition of "relatively." So if the cost doesn’t matter, do you want to also hear from people with mega-$ systems?

 

After reading the infamous Stereo Review blind test of 1987(?) and subsequent tests and personal experiences, I stopped focusing on electronics except for their convenience features as long as their measurements check out, so for my main audio system I have a vintage Pioneer integrated amp. I’ve read a lot about speakers and decided I wanted to build my own, but I knew enough to know that I didn’t know enough to design my own. So I selected a design from someone who did know enough. I chose to build BFM Davids with upgraded drivers. They cost $1100 to build. Total system cost, including DAC and laptop was approx $1900.

For my voice-activated office system all I cared about was that the preamp was Alexa-enabled and all types of distortion measured below the level of human hearing and the speakers were unobtrusive. For speakers I built a pair of Linkwitz LXMinis for $800. Total system cost approx $1400.

My guitar studio has JBL 30x speakers that are frequency-matched within 1 decibel. They cost around $300. The direct interface was $200. Laptop $300. One thing I always found funny is that in a huge number of cases the speakers used to engineer recordings are far cheaper than the speakers audiophiles use to play them back.

My living room and HT systems were much more expensive, but they serve a different purpose. However, I still bought them mostly used.

Very interesting experience journey...

How would you qualify the experience in S.Q. compared to all others audio systems you had listened to ?

In particular, have you ever heard system way better than your  your own ? If yes where and what?

 

The most interesting point for me in your post is this astute observation :

One thing I always found funny is that in a huge number of cases the speakers used to engineer recordings are far cheaper than the speakers audiophiles use to play them back.

Why this is important observation for me and for all people ?

In my opinion this observation confirm the fact that acoustics science in all his aspects matter way more than the specific specs level of the gear, especially if the gear is not too old and with already relatively  very low levels of distortion anyway under the audible  level  ...

I thanks you in advance for your answers to my question for the benefit of all ...

😊

 

@mahgister 

Sorry for the delay. I don't check in here too often. I've been to the Capitol Audio show and heard some fine systems. But audio shows aren't a good indicator of how it will sound in your room. In person in a home setting, I've heard Thiel 3.?, Klipsch LaScalla, Klipschorns, Revel Salon 2, Magnapan 3.6, Mackie MR8? and a few others. The best overall speakers I've heard were the Revels. Were they $19,000 better than my BFMs, or even $10,000 better than my Paradigm S1 with three Paradigm 110 Seismic subwoofers? Well, obviously that is subjective, but not in my opinion. The best I've heard for acoustic instruments is Magnepan. I actually went with Magnepan for my HT system because unlike most HT enthusiasts who prefer dynamics, I prefer the spatial characteristics of a planar speaker for movies, so I have five Magnepans.

Room treatments make a big difference. I've heard a couple of the speakers above before and after the room was treated and there was a big difference, as there should be if you understand how sound waves work.

Would I buy the Revels if I wasn't so cheap? Maybe. But I tend to feel sick about purchases where I get a 10% advantage for 1000% more money. I'm very happy with all my systems, except for the Linkwitz, which has great mids and decent highs, but needs a subwoofer. However, that would require a new DSP and programming, which isn't a priority right now. The BFMs blow me away because they cover the whole frequency spectrum very well and measure very flat using REW to measure them (with a tiny bit of tweaking from a Kenwood parametric equalizer). And remember, I asked the designer for upgraded drivers for this design, so I have the best they can be given the Thiel/Small parameters. But they are difficult to build and I don't recommend it unless you have woodworking experience and a lot of tools, which I do.

Like many hobbies I've gone through it took a lot of experience and a ton of reading to figure out what's important for reproducing sound. I think I'm as close as I'm going to get with the money I want to spend and the layout of my rooms. And it's probably the second best in-home system I've heard. But, I have started talking to builders to redo my house and if I can get past environmental regulations I may be able to rectify the layout issues and make a perfectly treated room. I also want to add DIRAC to my system. Stayed tuned.

Interestings thoughts that will be useful for many...

I thank you very much...

 I will be glad to read  your future thoughts... 😊

Chasing the HiFi rabbit takes away from the audiophile experience. I’ve cut back on listening to gear that is the latest/greatest or beyond my grasp and it has allowed me to better enjoy what I have. 

Great strategy

...But we must use acoustics basic knowledge  tactic to improve the S.Q.  and some mechanical and electrical controls... Then what we live with is no more a stopgap ...

 

 

Chasing the HiFi rabbit takes away from the audiophile experience. I’ve cut back on listening to gear that is the latest/greatest or beyond my grasp and it has allowed me to better enjoy what I have. 

Nope. Some songs hit the mark, even beat out any system at any price, but most are a disappointment as far as full-range audiophile sound quality goes.

With regards to this particular post:

This weekend I had some spare time on my hands so I stopped in one of the local audiophile stores to buy a couple of new albums.  While there, I asked if I could listen to their very best system, in their highest-end listening room.  The system featured over $300,000 in equipment.  The cables in the room cost more than my whole system.  I was prepared for a jaw-dropping example of what I want my system to sound like 10 years from now.   Well..... I listened to three tracks from my very favorite albums that I listen to all the time (songs that I know very, very well).  I was very happy to find that my system at home sounded better than their system which cost 10X as much as mine.  It was not surprising, as I have had similar experiences at three other high-end stores in the area.

It really shows you that sound quality and music room quality is not always directly related to the amount of money spent.  It also shows you that everyone has a different idea of what the "best" sound is, and you can never rely totally on someone else's review of which speaker is best, etc.

My system features almost entirely second-hand equipment that I have purchased over the years.  Each piece was purchased from prior owners who used the equipment very sparingly, so each piece was in like-new condition for about half price.   I have spent hundreds of hours in my room optimizing the exact location of the speakers and adding home-made acoustic treatments that have made a huge improvement to the room's sound quality.

I love this hobby.

Thanks for your interesting testimony...

I love my system. Schiit Raggie2; Reference 3A de Capos; NAD C558 tt with Clearaudio Maestro V2 and a Schiit Mani phono; Oppo 105 and Schiit Gumby DAC; various Acoustic Zen or homemade cables. All bought used except for the Ragnarok. 

 

This was a "downsize" from my virtual system and I couldn't be happier. I mean, I may upgrade to a better phono stage, but that's about all. 

Total price I paid for all of these is about what I paid for my previous amp - a vaunted Line Magnetic 518ia.