Tannoy legacy eatons here and loving them thus far! They are gargantuan stand mounters and have an exquisite finish and build. The midrange is to die for and the bass is fantastic. I’m running them with my sugden A21se signature pure class A single ended integrated and I think they pair very well. They are sitting on custom atacama stands 16 inches high. I have them toed in a good bit but not anything drastic...they seem to throw a soundstage twice as wide as my room, with good depth as well. I only have a few hours on them as of now, I’m sure they can only get better with time. I’m a tannoy convert! The best part? I got these brand spanking new from an audio dealer in Scotland for $3900!! They are a $6000 speaker! The story behind it is the dealer had a used pair which I bought sight unseen online. A day later, a sales person notified me that a local had come into the store the same day and bought the very same speakers. He said that noone had informed him of this! Feeling terrible about it, the same salesman ordered me a brand new pair right from the factory in Scotland! He charged me the same price as the used ones! They were shipped out to me in the states about 3 weeks later... 😁 forgot to mention, that price ($3900) included the custom 16 inch Atacama stands, also brand new! I’d say I stole these!!! The only thing extra that I had to buy was the atacama atabite stand filler, about 130 bucks for 4 7kg tubs to complete the job. I used 4 pea sized balls of blue tac beneath each speaker.
All I need to acquire now is a linn sondek turntable! I’ll then have all Scottish made components...well, with exception of my tape deck, sacd, cd players, and tuners...all Japanese.
@johnrothschild, all the Tannoys I have owned MX3s (slim floorstanders), R3s (bigger floorstanders) and Berkeley’s (larger floor/standmounts) were voiced to sound satisfyingly full at low volume.
The vintage Berkeley’s are a dream at low volumes, like the R3s (but with a bigger/freer sound). It’s actually difficult to resist turning them up (unless it’s late of course). You can easily begin craving more of that sumptuous sound. Because of low distortion, you can end up going quite loud before they become ’shouty’.
Despite any obvious treble trickery, they somehow render vocalists more legible. There is some commonly used unit of measure for speech legibility, used in cinemas I think, but I can’t recall the name. Whatever it is the dual concentric HPD drivers have it in spades.
They don’t really come more alive at higher volumes like some speakers do (Ruark Prologues!). You just get more of the same. Like having 2/3 slices of cake instead of just the one.
Of course they are not perfect, far from it. I would always prefer a better transient performance/dynamics plus a smoother treble.
As for timbral expressiveness, I doubt I can ever get enough.
I had a pair of Precision 6.2 series. First used Caspain M2 to power them, the result was meh... Then I used Magnat RV1, bass extension became better and then used Pass Labs XA30.5 and bass was perfect so it seems they are very sensitive to feed. With all these amps, midrange was really good specially if you are in jazz and female vocal, as mentioned by others the sound stage in lower models aren’t wide and sweet spot also narrow . Btw Tannoy speakers are really good with those magical concentric tweeters and wish their higher models have a better look.
Thanks for everyone sharing their thoughts on hard rock/ metal with Tannoys. I appreciate it.
The number one quality, bar none, that I look for in musical equipment is emotional connection with the music I enjoy. So I'll be curious about checking out Tannoys, as I'm under the impression that's a strength of theirs for some.
One thing I didn't hear though...are Tannoys good at lower volumes? Or do you need to play them at higher levels before they come alive?
I'm surprised this thread is still running. Ralph is absolutely right. The only thing my HPD's won't play well are the lowest pipe organ notes. All else is fair game.
I recently had my old Assemblage Audio SET 300B worked on by Paul Birkeland, the designer for Bottlehead. He replaced some bad Blackgate caps, and adjusted the filament voltage to the ideal for use with my EML XLS 300B tubes. He was surprised to learn the output transformers are Magnaquest, which partially explains why it sounds so good. It's been about three weeks since the recap, and now the bass is the best it has ever been, except when using an 845 amp hooked up to the system. That amp is now being overhauled by Paul, that will be an eye/ear opener when it's done.
Music is now better than at any time in my 45 year involvement with audio. I remember when I started getting serious about having a system that would really do it for me (when I was nearing retirement). I never dreamed it would be this good, and not a single bit of it over $5000. It can be done, especially with some DIY.
Best regards to all you Tannoy lovers, and to the rest of you as well.
like it or not, certain loudspeakers are better than others with certain genres.
Some are just plain better full stop.
Well I wouldn't like it if it were true. It would mean I need over 100 speakers to play one music collection :) But it is true that some speakers are just plain better, full stop. I'm running a set of Classic Audio Loudspeakers which are 16 ohms, go to 20Hz and are 98 dB 1 watt/1 meter. The first breakup is at 35Khz, so they are fast, smooth, detailed and image great. Massive Attack, Global Communication, Fields of Nephilim, King Crimson, The Academy of St. Martin in the Fields and the Tallis Scholars all sound great on them.
However they would not be my first choice for Rock or Metal - there are
better options out there for those genres. I’d start by looking at
something from JBL, then maybe ATC, PMC etc.
In my experience those genres thrive primarily upon attack, dynamics and speed. Not especially subtlety and nuance.
This is nonsense- but is the most common myth about speakers- that a certain speaker is good for a certain genre of music. Its entirely false- speakers (and electronics) don't care what music you play- and what makes them good at classical or jazz makes them good at rock as well.
Imagine if you had to have a different speaker depending on what record you pulled out of the shelf that day! Obviously it just doesn't work that way.
The need for a subwoofer with any non-powered speakers is very subjective. You may not know what you’re missing if you have not tried a subwoofer with your 15” dual-concentric driver.
I do concur with ‘organic tactile clarity’ comment. I run my Canterbury’s with dual REL subs and they do get standing O every now and then 😉
I listen to a lot of hard rock and metal. I used to own Kensington SE. They are very good for that music, but you don’t want them in too big a room so that they have trouble pushing out satisfying bass pressure - or use them with subs. You’ll also want to pair it with gear with a sweet and slightly relaxed treble.
bache’s English is not the best, so just for the sake of all of the contributors on this thread, and others of the ops, bache is a manufacturer of speakers out of Brooklyn N.Y. I do not believe he is a shill, not telling anyone. I just do not think he knows enough to state it. He does fish for information to help his designs and sales. I typically appreciate when an audio manufacturer or an audio related business ( such as a store ) to be open about it, which is why I am posting this. Enjoy ! MrD
@Jburidn bass performance depend from room of course and from woofers , cabinets ets , If any manual say 16hz it may be 10-20 db down. BTW, dont trust for 100%
Tannoy has a loyal following and I consider myself a big fan.
Like Dan I have vintage hpd drivers but mine are in a newly made cheviot cabinet made of birch. The sound is fantastic in several different large rooms I have had them in. They sound really good almost anywhere in the room but yes with some toe in they sound better.
I have a pretty good sub and since getting the Tannoys three years ago I have not even considered using it. In fact I consider myself a bit of a bass head but since getting the tannoys I don’t even think about bass - just the music.
@johnrothschild, each and every Tannoy speaker I have heard R1, MX3, R3, DC6, Berkeley etc had a full sound never too far off neutrality. All of them good all rounders with plenty of Bass warmth.
However they would not be my first choice for Rock or Metal - there are better options out there for those genres. I’d start by looking at something from JBL, then maybe ATC, PMC etc.
In my experience those genres thrive primarily upon attack, dynamics and speed. Not especially subtlety and nuance.
Even some budget / party speakers can sound decent with Rock.
I was joking. I don't listen to hard rock/heavy metal so I have no idea how they would sound on my Tannoys, which BTW go down to 16Hz. It all depends on the room, not on the surround.
jburidan: i dont understand you gradation, The High End speakers with good bass extension like B & W nautilus or Egglestone Viginity with two 10" butyl surround (low resonance frequency) drivers is excellent for any type of music included hard rock /Heavy metal ,etc) The Kensington like other Tannoy get woofer with cloth surround , this woofer is very fast good punch , but is not be able produce lower bass ,
The Kensington GR is a high fidelity speaker -- not recommended for hard rock/heavy metal. For that you want low fidelity with excessive bass. Hard rock/heavy metal in high fidelity will make you question your self-worth, and you won't like the answer.
I used to have tannoy windsors, they are really good speakers. Bass solid not boomy and mile wide soundstage. In my home theater i built 6 diy subs with 15 inch tannoys that we took out of a church, they do wicked bass in big 8cubic foot enclosures. Tannoy makes everything from cheap to uber awesome grade products. I also have a little bookshelf pair that dont sound good at all, worse than similiar sized polks.
I’m not sure if it is the same for all Tannoy speakers, but this is from the Kensington manual
Locate the loudspeakers so that the favourite listening position is approximately 15¡ from the axes of the cabinets. Theaxes of both cabinets should intersect at a point slightly in front of the listening position
And from the Kingdom Royal manual...
The axes of the cabinets can even intersect at a point slightly in front of the listening position.
That aside, I have heard that just behind the listening position is preferred by some people, so I believe the above off axis placement is the suggested "starting position" and is NOT absolute because they also cite reflectections as being a crucial part of speaker placement and that would impact off-axis positions.
Personally, my Mercury speakers sound their best, i.e. in a large room with side walls about 8 ft away, with off axis just behind the listening position in order to provide the largest sweet spot. But I am wondering if that is because they do not use the dual concentric drivers?
That aside, I have heard that just behind the listening position is preferred by many, so I believe the above off axis placement is the suggested "starting position" and is NOT "cast in concrete" because the manual also cites reflectections as being a crucial part of speaker placement and that would impact off-axis positions.
But one thing seems to be "a given" - Tannoys seem to require significantly more acute off-axis angle than other brands.
@williewonka No, they have some space around them from the corners - about 3.5 feet from back of speakers to the front wall, and just shy of 2 feet from the outer sides to walls. Gives them enough space to breathe, even with all ports fully open. 10' ceilings help, too.
Works out nicely because visually it acts like a "stage" for the system, and all the gear is set back enough to be protected from the walkway.
The main principal difference big size Tannoy loudspeakers to compare to other famous brands - they use non compression woofers. is require big amount volume, but much more sensitive, no need big monster amps, much more faster and get much better midbass ability. Huge soundstage , not boomy base i liked
tbevan, I remember listening to a pair of original Arden's back in 1977. Wonderful sounding loudspeaker. Easily bested the Yamaha NS-1000's I had at the time. :-)
Dan's project is impressive regardless of the fine details and what-have-you's. Yes, the Westminster is the only current production Tannoy with a complex folded-horn cabinet structure, and has been for some time. The other cabinets are pretty simple (minus the nice cosmetic wood work) but reasonably well braced and upper-line products use the excellent Baltic birch plywood. Part of me wishes I had Westminsters instead of Canterbury, but I think they would just overwhelm my room.
So minor philosophical differences aside, you can at least see how enthusiastic we Tannoy owners are for our speakers - one common theme is that we all feel Tannoy offers a good route out of audiophile hell and towards musical bliss. Get you some!!
@cd318 i feel some sarcasm about Dan project. MDF- is one is best material for High End speakers Cabinet , majority of famous brand is used to, dont scare too much about resonance , well done braces almost eliminate. regarding bolts-- one guy i remember, send the post to audiophile community ----after replacing driver bolts he get significant sound improvement .period
@ dan, you're a braver man than me and no doubt more knowledgeable in these matters.
Still, I hope you don't mind a few suggestions, that might be worth bearing in mind. The original Tannoy's all used chipboard as cabinet material, and to a large extent it works really well. With MDF I believe it is possible to get good results, but more care may be needed to keep those nasty resonances away from the midrange.
Secondly, as is being appreciated more and more, the driver/cabinet coupling is all important, so it's well worth experimenting with the tightness of the driver bolts. I strongly believe that no more than finger tightness is required (for any large heavy Tannoy DC drivers).
So it might be worth playing around with that too. Best of luck.
My Legacy Eatons place the performers right in my living room and provide a sense of presence and engagement like few other speakers I've ever heard and none anywhere near them in price. Powered by a Luxman L-550AXII the bass is both ample and physical.
Tannoy's recommendation regarding toe-in is spot on here. I started with no toe-in, gradually moved them in roughly 5-degree increments, and they sound their best when crossing 10-15cm in front of my nose when I sit in my listening chair.
I just ordered the new legacy tannoy Ardens...... can’t wait. Have a 3 week holiday coming up so will leave them playing when I’m away- few hundred hours should do it.
I would have loved to buy a brand-spanking new pair of Westminster Royals or Canterburys, but they were way out of my league financially. I had purchased a demo pair of Dynaudio Contour 5.4's years earlier (with beautiful Rosewood cabinets), and I thought I really loved them. As time went on, however, I was itching to have a go at tube amps, and I knew the 5.4's had to go.
My first pair of Tannoys were 12" Gold MG's, which I bought in 1971. They were in some very poorly self-constructed cabinets. I knew, at the time I started my current Tannoy build, that I had unfinished business with Tannoy. I realized they were capable of much more than I had been able to get from them the first time around.
So I bought on Ebay UK my 12" HPD's. I knew how special they were going to be when I set them up temporarily, (just the crossovers, with the drivers propped up), on the floor next to the Dynaudios. They blew the Dyn's away in every way you care to mention. It was shortly after that I sold the Dyn's, and got started on the HPD's. I found as much info as I could find on appropriate enclosures, which wasn't very much, but I decided 150 liter bass-reflex cabs were the way to go. I knew I wanted them to be massive, so I had them built of 3/4" MDF inside, laminated to 1 1/8" MDF outside. They turned out to be 192 lbs. each, without crossovers and drivers.
I didn't want them to have the typically wide Tannoy baffles, so I had the outside dimensions made 17" W X 20" D X 48" H. Front of the cabs are beveled 45 degrees. Room dimensions are 16.5' X 34' w/cathedral ceilings, and they are toed in so the centers intersect just a bit behind the listening position.
I've heard many Tannoy speakers and generally they tend to have a family sound with generous midbass and a smooth, non-emphasised top end. This can sound slightly shut in compared to some rivals, but never thin.
I love this full (old fashioned?) sound on all the models I've heard (with the exception of one of the large Dimension models which took this fullness a bit too far in my opinion).
The M1, R3, and the HPD 385s all have that classic Tannoy sound. Even the floor standing MX3s sounded like Tannoys despite their elevated treble response.
I have read of complaints regarding sibilance on some vintage models and others seem keen on 'improving' the enclosures on the older models but I'd steer well clear of such ideas.
Its only the fully horn loaded Westminster, so beloved of the late Harvey 'Gizmo' Rosenburg that have elaborate cabinetwork. The rest seem very matter of fact, but this was quite intentional.
I steer clear of DIY when it comes to speakers, especially if selecting expensive drivers, simply because companies invest millions in design/tooling/glues/construction methods and finish, which immediately puts the DIYer at a disadvantage.
I did try building PA speakers, which are not as complex as hi-fi speakers, but even that took some effort to get right.
I've also had a friend that tried to build open baffle speakers, where cabinet design is less complex, but just as critical to "get right". Alas, the crossover proved to be a significant challenge.
I know that Gershman takes their speakers to a lab in Ottawa to prove and refine their cabinet/driver/crossover combinations. That is something most DIYers do not have access to.
I am a keen DIYer for things like cables and isolation tweaks, and I did build my own turntable plinth, which proved to be an exceptional performer.
But I choose to leave speaker designs strictly to the professionals.
I have the Kensington's. I agree with Mulveling on the recommended toe in - baffled is a good word (because presumably the manufacturer knows what they are talking about). They did not seem to image well when I tried it. My room is 21 x 14 and they fire towards the length of the room. I have wondered if their toe in would make sense if you had something like the Westminsters in a huge room in the corners, spaced very widely apart. By toeing them in (such that they cross over in front of the listener), perhaps it would lessen the first-wall reflection . But who knows.
I have Tannoy 8 dcTi from their Definition line.
The Tannoy's are positioned about 3' from the back wall and 3' from each side wall. My room size is 12' wide, 13' long, with 9' ceilings.
I use a NAD M12 pre/dac and NAD M22 v2 power amp. I listen to jazz and old school R&B streaming Tidal and ripped CDs from a Innous Zenith MKII via Roon, and vinyl from a Technics SL-1200G with Ortofon Quintet Black cart. I love the music, sound of the vocals, and I get a nice tight bass. The music is crystal clear and the sound stage is quite good.
Mulvening, I have to be honest with you, I didn't actually build them myself. At the time I started the build, I didn't have the necessary space, or the tools and skills to make them. Frank Wyatt of Wyatt Woodworking built them for me.
I have, since then, sanded and polished the finish (Frank attempted his first high gloss finish, which he had much trouble getting right). There was orange-peel, and a few runs as well. They still looked nice, I but I wanted them better. I replaced the woofers with ones that Lockwood converted to hard edge surrounds for me. I also built the crossovers, and wired the speakers.
My woodworking skills have improved, which is evident on my plinth for the Garrard 401.
The SET 300B amp is an Audio Assemblage which was built by Sonic Frontiers, which was sold in kit form. This particular amp had been built for a reviewer, with all the available upgrades. After I purchased it, I sent it back to them, and had the caps and resistors upgraded, and bought EML XLS 300B tubes to run in it, which made the amp sound very nice indeed. The amp has a set of quite large transformers, which has a great deal to do with why it can drive the Tannoys to very satisfying levels.
I apologize if you feel mislead about the speaker enclosures, I feel, after having spent years working on them, including the fact they were built to my specifications, that I feel I had a great deal to do with the outcome of what they are today.
I have admired your system for years now, and I know how much you must enjoy it. The fact that you are able to listen to the music you do shows what Tannoys are capable of. They are what I would call agnostic regarding what music they will play well.
Thinking about this some more, I wonder if @islandmandan ’s custom build, with reflex porting and a large vintage Tannoy HPD driver, would achieve a nice balance of bass extension plus sweet midrange. Especially paired with the right tube amp, which it seems he’s also done. And good god Dan - your custom cabinets are beyond gorgeous! Brilliant work.
The 12” driver with traditional reflex porting, like the discontinued Yorkminster SE and current GRF 90, will give excellent bass extension - significantly better than the 15” Canterbury. I think that is due to the distributed port on the Canterbury and most other Prestige models - but also I speculate that distributed porting helps given them a sweeter midrange at the expense of bass extension.
@williewonka My Tannoys are situated in a section of my living area room, backed into a little alcove (4 feet deep) that’s 14 feet wide and serves as the front wall for my setup. The length of the room in the other dimension is 21 feet. 10 foot ceilings. However, the left wall is only partial, and the right side opens up into the rest of the main living area - fully 30 feet in that dimension. So there’s effectively a bit more space around Tannoys than there would be in an actual closed 14’x21’x10’ rectangular room. The Canterbury is an excellent size for this space. I used to own Kensington SE, and their bass was a little lean in the same room. And the best bass I heard in this room was from Yorkminster SE, but unfortunately its midrange is not as beautiful as the Canterbury.
The bit of room asymmetry is not ideal, but the building construction is excellent and I’ll easily take a little asymmetry over a flimsy construction with bouncy floor and low ceiling under a drywall shoebox. No residential neighbors around, either, so late night loud listening is my favorite pass-time :) And my seating at midfiend/nearfield-ish, along with Tannoy’s controlled dispersion, largely mitigates the asymmetry effects. Sounds amazing! Total immersion into the musical performance, with good records.
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