Does anyone have any experience with Anticables products? I spent over $600 on a pair of honestly cheap-looking ICs from them and after 400 or so hours burning them in I'm hard-pressed to tell the difference between them and an old set of no name ICs built from pro cable stock and heavy metal RCA connectors.
For all I know they are made out of regular bulk copper spools in a plastic sheath and wrapped in a Slinky.
My system is in a state of flux right now. Recently I began investigating speakers coming from a headphone background. I've tried the 6.2 cables on a Teac AI-301DA and a Schiit Mjolnir 2. The Teac is used as a speaker amp, but I'm unhappy with its performance so I have an Emotiva A300 on the way. The Teac, the Emotiva, and the Chane A1.4 speakers I'm using are for experimental purposes -- to see if the speaker thing is for me or not.
So, my best amp is the Mjonir 2 with a set of 1975 Reflektor Silver Shields, which is a headphone amp. My headphone reference chain is as follows:
Dedicated Audio PC -> Supra USB -> LKS USB-100 (I2S bridge) -> 1' generic HDMI -> Gustard X20U (I2S port) -> 6.2 ICs -> Mjolnir 2 -> Focal Utopia.
I have a Furutech GTX-D NFC(R) outlet dedicated to the amp and DAC. The amp (whichever one I'm using at the moment) is plugged into the outlet with a Audio Sensibility Testament power cable. The DAC is plugged in with a Lessloss Original cable.
"But -- for example -- if the conductors are not a gold-silver alloy but actually just standard copper wire stock, I think that could be called a scam. Likewise if they purposefully misrepresented subjective qualitative claims that would also be a scam."
These are after-the-fact hypotheticals. You should have had some empirical evidence before using the word scam - even with a question mark after the word.
Perhaps a more appropriate (and accurate) title would have been:
Anticables: Disappointment.
I have no affiliation with Anticables. Years ago I used their speaker cables with good results. I periodically (infrequently) take a look at how their products have evolved. With all of the positive information out there on the company, I don't see any reason to doubt their integrity.
Personally, I am astonished that such a top-of-the-line cable sounds very similar to an old set of no name ICs built from pro cable stock, etc. But there is no reason to doubt your findings.
You do hold the Ace of Trumps - the ability to return the cables. Why not do so and move on?
madavid0 OP I have no reason to believe Anticables is scamming me in the sense of a bait-and-switch or the like.
But -- for example -- if the conductors are not a gold-silver alloy but actually just standard copper wire stock, I think that could be called a scam. Likewise if they purposefully misrepresented subjective qualitative claims that would also be a scam.
In light of all the positive, even rave reviews of Anti Cables maybe it’s time for some introspection. If every negative result meant that the thing under test is a scam there simply wouldn’t be anything left that isn’t a scam. There are perfectly good reasons why folks sometimes don’t get good results with anything you’d like to name. But I reckon especially cables and certain tweaks. Subjective claims are, well, subjective. You can't exactly sic Better Business Bureau on anyone for subjective claims, at least I'm pretty sure BBB would tell you they don't have the time or inclination for such things.
I have no reason to believe Anticables is scamming me in the sense of a bait-and-switch or the like.
But -- for example -- if the conductors are not a gold-silver alloy but actually just standard copper wire stock, I think that could be called a scam. Likewise if they purposefully misrepresented subjective qualitative claims that would also be a scam.
chrisr 191 posts 01-17-2017 4:53pm Well I have to agree: my opinion is not scientific fact. really, I had no idea. The new Reduced Dislocation Density (RDD™) Wire provides:
An increased sense of volume More "real" sounding midrange Less grain noise Even smoother highs (like driving on a newly blacktopped road) More bass and better bass articulation More exciting and involving More bass and less grain noise? How can this happen, they have been able to reduce resistance? Decrease inductance, or both? How did they find out there’s more bass? With every upgrades, there’s more bass. And lots of it for the dollar.
Undoubtedly they’re cryoing their cables. Imagine that. Sha-ZAM!
Well I have to agree: my opinion is not scientific fact. really, I had no idea.
The new Reduced Dislocation Density (RDD™) Wire provides:
An increased sense of volume
More "real" sounding midrange
Less grain noise
Even smoother highs (like driving on a newly blacktopped road)
More bass and better bass articulation
More exciting and involving
More bass and less grain noise? How can this happen, they have been able to reduce resistance? Decrease inductance, or both? How did they find out there’s more bass? With every upgrades, there’s more bass. And lots of it for the dollar. Really, it's a bargain. trust me.
I am well familiar with lAnti's ....I know all the levels and have followed the company for years. They first came to my attention many years ago when they got an excellent review from The Absolute Sound...they were using magnet wire at the time. Since then they have been getting better and better using better materials, and connectors. (Silver, Xadow connectors) I must remind everyone that all cables sound different in different systems. Anti's are well made, sound very good and are a bargain at their price levels. If their performance is not to your liking, return them.
I appreciate that you want to approach this from a scientifically factual basis. In this spirit I will point out that your opinion is not scientific fact, it is simply your opinion. I would be more than happy to look at any scientific data that you have in regards to Anticables making false claims. The term "scam" has a legal definition which both you and the OP are not using. The way in which both you and the OP are using the word "scam" is in a subjective and biased manner which does not adhere to its legal definition. The OP purchased a product with the ability to return it and get his money back which he has not chosen to do at this point, that is the only verifiable fact.
Peanut butter claims are just not comparable to audio cable claims. Stores' private label peanut butter is generally produced by a well-known manufacturer and there's no claim on either side of "being better than". There's a claim of being cheaper though, something that is verifiable and hard to argue against. Jif has never tried to fool anyone by selling something as peanut butter in a jar when it is not.
In the case of a boutique cable product lines, there's a claim of non-demonstrable audible superiority and an upgrade path based on solutions to problems that are irrelevant in hifi. This is not bias, this is scientific fact. A blatant example is jumpers. Or the infamous 72V DBS system.
Knowingly selling something for what it is not is a scam in my book. It's cheating. If they were claiming "our cable comes in colors of your choice and is bigger than brand X, so that your hifi gear can look better and make you feel better about how it sounds", then we would have an honest proposition: real features and real benefits that may apply to you.
I would like to hear what gear and other cables you are using - as Mitch4t requested.
madavid0, please tell us what kind of equipment you are running.
Amp? Preamp? Speakers? Cd player? DAC? Turntable? Cartridge? Phono preamp?
And add to that list... - Power Cables - Speaker Cables - other IC’s.
One pair of Anticables will not necessarily improve the sound of an entire system - if your other cables or components are lower resolving - you will hear little in the way of improvement.
Anticables adopt a different cable architecture that can effect component perofrmance and tend to provide much better performance when used with other Anticales of the same or higher model in the audio chain.
When used with other brands they may not provide the anticipated improvement.
Also exactly where did you install the cables... - between a source and pre-amp? - between the pre-amp and power amp?
We need all of the details to assist in providing advice on how to resolve your issue.
Personally, I’ve spent a long time experimenting with cables and I have found that a single cable can impair the sound quality to varying degrees by attaching it to different components. That applies to both power and interconnect cables.
I had been a customer of Anticables for more than year until I upgraded to some more expensive cables. I still use their USB cable and am happy with it. Do Paul's cables sound better than the 10 times more expensive cables? I doubt, otherwise I wouldn't upgrade to the more expensive ones. But Paul's cables definitely sound above their price points based on my experience. I moved up the food chain from Level 1 to 3 for both interconnects and speaker cables and experienced improvements. For the full disclosure, I did try the Level 6.2 interconnects and decided to the other direction. My experience with Paul has been very positive. I think he is an honest and professional business man. I had no trouble to return the cables that didn't match my system for full refund. System synergy is important when choosing cables like mitch4t said. Share more details on the rest of the system setup other than the cables will definitely help other forum members to provide constructive feedback IMHO.
I think "Scam" is a generic term used or thrown about having several meanings..I tried these cables a few years ago and my impression was far from satisfied..Terms like disappointed,wasted money,,misrepresented ,nothing I wanted to keep etc etc..Im sure I used the term scammed or scam in my language with friends,so maybe the original poster is using a broad brush in his posting
chrisr, It is only a scam if the manufacturer either does not deliver the product at all and keeps your money or refuses to honor their written return policy, neither appears to be the case here despite your own personal bias.
Jif peanut butter: Scam? I bought a jar of Jif peanut butter for $2.89 and a store brand of peanut butter for $.89 and the store brand tastes the same, maybe even a little better! There is obviously no reasonable way that I could have even suspected this before trying them but I will not return the Jif and get my money back even though the store allows it.
Yes it's a SCAM. Level 1 cables, ok why not if they look pretty and measure well. The other levels, or "upgrades", no one on earth has been able to demonstrate improved electrical characteristics and better sonics. At the price point, it is not only a scam but is also a tacky way to make money and nothing to be proud of. Cable makers sell false solutions to problems that do not even exist in the audio world. While they are laughing their way to the bank, I could not live with myself selling lies.
What madavid0 describes is commonly known as BUYERS REMORSE!!! You have not been scammed! Here's how life works: If you buy something and don't like it, and it is within the return time frame, you return it for a refund; if it is outside of the return time frame you sell it on.
Anti Cables and its owner Paul Speltz have a sterling reputation for customer service. Did you even bother to contact them before trying to smear their good name? Smear /verb 2.damage the reputation of (someone) by false accusations; slander.
Whoa! What? Not many reviews of Anti Cables? A quick I.e., 10 second, search turned up quite a few reviews plus Q&A, forum comments, etc. for Anti Cables including reviews by most major audio online magazines. Where’s the beef?
Here is the conclusion from the review in Positive Feedback,
"I could ramble on, providing more examples of how great these cables sound, but why waste my time or yours? At their ludicrously affordable price, the risk of trying them is low. They are a genuine steal! They would be a gargantuan value at twice the price. I recommend that you try them, even if you are not in the market for speaker cables. It’s not often that I encounter a diamond in the rough that glitters so brightly. I have to sign off now—I’ve got to go buy my wife a few pairs of shoes with all the money I just saved on these great speaker cables. What are you waiting for?"
I bought used Acoustic Zen Absolute ICs that retail >$2k and found them better than $200 AQ King Cobra by small margin. Same neutral character, slightly faster transients, more refined (cleaner) with darker background, a little better imaging. For me this is the point of diminishing returns. Perhaps people with better hearing (professional musicians etc.) should invest more, but for me this is it. Perhaps, as Al stated, in better system ICs would play larger role, but again - my hearing is not getting any better.
Thanks for comments, I was a little concerned because there's not many reviews online as compared to say -- Shunyata, Cardas, AudioQuest, etc.
There WAS a big difference prior to burn-in, namely I found the AntiCables cold and lacking in detail compared to the no-names. After the 400 or so hours of burn-in those problems appear to be gone -- but I expected to hear more than 0 difference!
Oh well, I'll play around with some other configurations and see what happens...
Be careful with the language you use. Scam is a strong word. Paul has been doing his thing at Anticables for a very long time with NUMEROUS positive reviews from both professional and private users. I have his 6.2 interconnects and in my system they are the most natural, organic cables I’ve had. Made my $2,000 hidiamonds sound like bad hifi.
System synergy is so important. My integrated sounds amazing on my old speakers, but I purchased a pair of Rethm Trishnas a couple weeks ago. The Trishnas sounded fantastic on a tubed integrated at the seller’s house but on my integrated not so much. I’m waiting for delivery on two other tubed integrateds which I believe will be magic with the Trishnas but you see my point. Maybe the Anticables just didn’t gel in your system. Or, you’re expecting something else from them. Hey, to each his own.
I wouldn't remove the 6.2 from my system for anything.
Been buying and selling on AudioGon for decades and have been scammed twice. First, was a set of relatively inexpensive interconnects that were clearly inferior to what I was using and the manufacturer would not take them back. Fortunately, this huckster is no longer selling his wares at this time. I finally wound up using them for back channels in my garage set-up. The second was a more expensive component that was roughly cleaned and damaged before sending it my direction and would not take it back as well. Aside from that, I have had nothing but positive experiences on many other items.
With respect to AntiCables, I used there best speaker cables in my reference system for a time and they were adequate, but were no match for the Audio Magic cables I replaced them with. I've used their interconnects as well with basically the same results.
Summarizing, my experience is that the AntiCables are a good value, but are not in the same league as many other higher end products.
For what it's worth, I have been extremely impressed by their power cables (Level 3). They have outperformed more expensive cables in my system, and it wasn't close. Haven't tried any of their other cables, but in my rig the power cables are excellent (and a bargain).
I think you're using the term "scam" too liberally here. You didn't like their ICs - it happens. I don't like Kimber in my setup, but Kimber is not a scam.
I think for peace of mind, the best way to do cables is by home audition through the Cable Company. You'll get advice on what's likely to work and then you can pick three cables to audition. Then you can decide if one is synergistic with your system or if all three offer no improvement over your current cables. At worst, you lose 5%, cheap price considering. I found I liked Purist Audio Designs over some well-known competitors and I thought I would prefer Kimber. My two cents.
I would keep in mind the possibility that you might have been similarly disappointed if you had purchased pretty much any other brand of $600 interconnects. Components and systems vary widely in their sensitivity to cable differences, and in ways that do not necessarily correlate with their sonic quality or musical resolution.
BTW, the cables in question are the 6.2 ABSOLUTE Signature RCA which is their top of the line.
I guess for now I'll swap out my current tubes with my best 1975 Reflektor silver shields...maybe swap back in my Utopia's original cabling and see what comes out of it...
In other words, average equipment will produce average sound, no matter how "great" the cables may be... and... "great" equipment will produce "great" sound from most reasonably designed cables made from quality materials that don’t cost very much... whether the cables cost a little... or... a lot.
bassdude, - quote of the week!....although it is only Monday...still, pretty good IMO
+1 Lak. Madavid0 Scam is a strong word for a first inquiry. Shouldn't make the comment until it is absolutly true. Then we do need to know. Please do your due diligence before using that word.
If they sound essentially the same as no name $20 pro cable that does seem to suggest I bought a cable that is essentially $20 with a gigantic markup, and the talk about silver-gold alloy and special dielectric properties, etc, is just BS!
I haven't completely given up on them yet, I have a new amp coming in and there are more configurations to try them in first. It could be that the bright 6922s I'm using are smearing things too much for example. I'll get Anticables's input as well. But as of today they ought to go right back.
I purchased some Anti-cables a few years ago. I didn't hear any improvement in sound but I didn't pay very much for them. When I sold some Pardigm speakers I through in the Anti-cables for free. The new owner told me after a week listening that he really liked the Anti-cables. I guess everyone hears differently.
I would not characterize Anti-Cables as a "scam," any more so, than much higher priced cables, that may not sound any better.
The materials for most cables are not terribly expensive. You pay the premium prices for the specific design and creativity... and... of course... the brand name and image of the manufacturer. Not much different than virtually all other audio equipment.
I’ve got the Anti-Cables interconnects and speaker cables... and... they do sound superb... but... perhaps... not so much better than some less costly cables, or much poorer than far more costly cables.
I did buy some cheap "magnet wire" on Amazon and make some speaker cables up in a similar design to the Anti-Cables... and... they seem to sound about the same as the Anti-Cables - not much difference.
So... the quality of the sound from various cables... will vary a bit... based on engineering and design fundamentals (e.g. solid vs stranded, copper vs silver, twisted vs straight, inductance, capacitance, teflon insulated, etc.). The more the design transmits a pure electrical signal, rejects noise and interference, etc. determines the quality of the sound that’s transmitted to some extent.
But, the variation in the sound you perceive from various cables may not be very significant, depending upon the quality of your equipment, and power source, which will have a far greater effect on your perceived sound quality.
In other words, average equipment will produce average sound, no matter how "great" the cables may be... and... "great" equipment will produce "great" sound from most reasonably designed cables made from quality materials that don’t cost very much... whether the cables cost a little... or... a lot.
Lol, you get what you pay for is common sense but sometimes that common sense gets lost in the hype. Still, I'd hope the cables would beat some good pro cable ICs I had sitting in the basement for years. I forget how much they cost -- I want to say around $20?
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