Amps from the 1980's -- What gear holds up sonically? Reliably?

There is just too much stuff to mention, some equipment will do wonders in some systems and sound average in others. But if you hear the same model component being repeated, then you know something special about that item. I used to believe McIntosh was not high-end because for many years, they were not in the hifi game but after they got back in, and I got to hear their new stuff along with returned back and listening to their older gear like the MC 275, it definitely settled the issue that some Mcintosh is superb equipment also.

the 80s kyocera gear was extremely well built--they aspired to be the japanese mcintosh. their separates are comparatively rare and pricey, but their receivers (r851, r861) are ubiquitous, cheap and great-sounding.

A bit surprised no one has mentioned Belles.  I have an original Belles Research Model 1 purchased new in 1985 that sounds just as terrific now as it did then.  No repair or service required, even after a number of cross-country moves.  Detailed, quiet, clean & musical.  A winner all around, IMO.

FWIW, I purchased it through Gala Sound (Jim Gala).  For those of you who know Upstate NY, that might bring back a few memories.

Still using an 1988 Audio Research D125 (125WPC 6550's) fronted by a 1968 Mcintosh MX-110Z on a daily basis. MX all stock except preamp tubes (50's RCA); D125 recap'd PS with regular tube changes.

Here's a vote for the amp that I believe is the cream of the crop from the 80's...the ARC D70Mk2. This amp along with the more powerful ( but slightly less resolving..particularly in the crucial midband) D115 and the great M100's exemplify for me the golden age of ARC.

Hahaha, well in case anyone was hoping the drama would start in this thread, I guess it will be me. :)

In the 1980’s the CJ had me body and soul compared to ARC.

However in the 21st century, I’d rather have ARC.  This is partly because my tastes have gone away from euphonic and partly because ARC has gone more towards it.

Best,


E

In responds to Daveyf remark, "vote for cream of the crop," there is no way the AR components you mentioned would take that spot. There were way too many great sounding items. And I haven't checked but I'm assuming that the AR amp you mentioned was either SS or a 6550 based amp. I for one, prefer EL34 amps over 6550 designs and even still, the 300b tube over EL34. So that's why I do not prefer AR amps and some of the CJ line. I mention MCIntosh amps in an earlier reply because MCIntosh had been quiet for many years and returned back in the spot light in the 80's. And to my discovery, they make some awesome sounding hifi equipment. I never own MAC stuff but have heard it several times and I'm very impressed. These 5 preamps I own and are using in my systems - the main preamps-  Marantz 7, AR SP-11 mk 2, Stevens Billington Silver passive, and the Conrad Johnson PV9A & PV-11 preamps used just for phono-sections.  I don't want to begin the list of amps and turntable I have set up. 

lowtubes--"In responds to Daveyf remark, "vote for cream of the crop," there is no way the AR components you mentioned would take that spot. There were way too many great sounding items. And I haven’t checked but I’m assuming that the AR amp you mentioned was either SS or a 6550 based amp. I for one, prefer EL34 amps over 6550 designs and even still, the 300b tube over EL34. So that’s why I do not prefer AR amps and some of the CJ line. I mention MCIntosh amps in an earlier reply because MCIntosh had been quiet for many years and returned back in the spot light in the 80’s. And to my discovery, they make some awesome sounding hifi equipment. I never own MAC stuff but have heard it several times and I’m very impressed. These 5 preamps I own and are using in my systems - the main preamps- Marantz 7, AR SP-11 mk 2, Stevens Billington Silver passive, and the Conrad Johnson PV9A & PV-11 preamps used just for phono-sections. I don’t want to begin the list of amps and turntable I have set up."

That’s all IYHO. My ARC amp does use 6550’s. Your preference for EL34’s or 300B’s is just that a "personal" preference.
Have you actually ever heard one of the ARC amps I mention...recently, I am betting not. MAC stuff from the tube age is nice, but is more colored and less resolving ...IMHO. YMMV.

Mac stuff from the tube age with upgraded parts might surprise a lot of people. Great midrange and totally non fatiguing, I still own a pair of MC-60s. Not used every day but I can't part with them either and always enjoy listening for a change of pace. REALLY nice with an heavily upgraded PV9a, my current everyday pre. Back to the future kind of.

Epicure model 1 power, Soundcraftsman pre and power. Apt Holman.

Hegman Hapi preamp .

80s is vintage? Much of my gear is 50s, 60s. 

All seperates, btw. 

Daveyf, I would rather own and listen to a McIntosh tube amp any day over a Audio Research tube amp. Yes that is my preference and I have heard AR amps along with MAC amps. That why I can't see your AR amp being the cream of the crop from the 80's. just because you like it a lot doesn't mean everyone else thinks it's the best. 

Just to get back on track, the 80's had great items made from many companies. In fact, To think of it, I think some of my favorite stuff was made in the late 50's, 60's, and early 80's. One of my best picks is the Threshold SA line: even though I'm not necessarily a SS person, the SA amps sound so pure and musical. They were made in the early 80's. Conrad Johnson's Premier 1, 4, & 5 amps are still highly sought after in Hong Kong for they special sound. They are not as accurate as other amps but they are very open, musical, euphoric, and magical when set up correctly. Amps that are the most accurate do not necessarily make magic in a system. The Rogers LS3/5a for example is a speaker made from the 70's - 80's and it is definitely not the most revealing monitor I have heard by far. But I once heard it paired with Cary 805 amps and a tube preamp and till this day, I still feel it was one of the best, engaging, super large sounds I ever had the pleasure of hearing. It was an experience not a listening session. System 

Well lowtunes, i’m not going to dispute your choice but I also lived for a few years with a ARC d115 mk2, very nice as well and I loved the mono M100s from that Era too. It isn’t necessarily about individual components but putting together components for a musically satisfying system/presentation.

Thanks to all of the contributors so far, this has turned out to be a great thread. I appreciate hearing about all of the experiences and especially about gear I never heard or saw myself.

I want to take a moment to acknowledge that our pleasure, our hobby, our interest and the industry has been advanced by people like the late Dr. Marshall Leach Jr. as well as others who researched, studied and shared their work with a needy/greedy audience.

Dr. Leach’s paper in 1976 was, I believe, a turning point and fuse lighter for the solid state amplifier market. Our hobby and expectations and the quality of products we can afford to buy would most likely be something entirely different without that paper and without his work. Certainly, many manufacturers took advantage of his proposal almost verbatim. If you understood his paper, you can read almost any amplifier schematic for the next 20 years before Class D amps came to the fore and identify each section in it.

His paper was at the same time a recipe and a challenge. It said "Here is how you make a good amplifier" and at the same time "See if you can make something even better." Engineers no longer had to hunt in the dark and search for the secrets to good solid state amps. All the parts and their use were laid out before them, while at the same time opportunities to improve upon and leave their own marks upon the discipline also opened up.

I should also point out that designers like Nelson Pass have long taken a different approach, and looked to simplify as opposed to enhance or perfect. And we are grateful for that approach as well! But when Nelson looks to simplify or others to re-think components they are constantly challenged by the Leach legacy. We can’t just remove sections, or alter feed back circuits. We must do so AND get sound as good if not better by doing so. Dr. Leach left a clear foil and challenge for others to take up, and improve upon. This is how progress gets done. We can say "Oh, amp X is nothing like the Leach paper..." but it is impossible to say these amps were not informed and challenged by it.

I should point out and thank Nelson Pass as he is quite active in the DIY community, sharing his thoughts, and tinkering "out loud" for the benefit of this community.

So, to people like Nelson pass as well as the late Dr. Leach, and the universities which create environments so students can learn from people like him, I would like to offer a heart-felt thank you. They enabled the industry, the hobby and ultimately the music.

Best,

E

I would certainly add Audire to this list, at least everything built after the Model 2 amp and Legato preamp. The Legato is reliable, but I wonder about the people who rave about its sound. It is certainly clean , but it's power supply limits its dynamics beyond belief compared to newer models, i.e. Diffet 3, 5 and Andante. I even preferred the bulky Diffet1. The Diffet 2 is also very good, but it was designed before CD's and before Julius built his speakers for testing. As such, it is a little loosey goosey in the bass, compared to the others. FYI, there is no Diffet 4, nor an amp using a 4 in the model number. Instead, the early amp was nalled the Forte", because so much of his equipment went to Japan, where the number 4 is considered to be like our 13. After this, Julius continued the use of musical terms.

Wow! the NAD  Amp where my choice for sure back then i had a 2600 and a 7600 bridged 

 i still have them but now I've moved up to the S 100 pre/amp and a pair of S200 running my  Polk audio SDA1.2 Flagships 

I'm surprised I only see one reference to Hafler.  I bought the 220 kit model I believe for $400 and for the day, it was an amazing amp.   I doubt anything came close to it in quality for that price.  Not sure how it would hold up today but back then, I loved them with my ADS 810's and M&K subwoooofer

I have to say, that my old Sumo Nine took on all comers in my system,  I've had some very well respected amps in there... to be fair,  my old Sumo was hardly a Sumo any more,  it had a radically superior part upgrades throughout...  from the power supply to the boards to the wiring.. So probably not fair... It is getting upgraded again this minute with Newer, higher voltage, higher mfd and lower esr supply caps now as well as a minor circuit change with all new Higher quality output transistors.  I'm excited to get it back.  I've always been told that the 2SC1831 could not be replaced.

I just came across an old PS Audio 200C,  I immediately thought of this thread,  wondered why I didn't think of it sooner,  then the PS Delta series came to mind,  the Delta 100, Delta 200 and 250 Delta mono blocks.

Wow thats a tough one ill get back to you on that.

Berning amp with Keith Herron preamp, still working strong for many years..

Great thread Erik! I was 20 years old in 1980, so the 80s gear was my intro into high end gear having owned a Mitsubishi DA-R8 rec’r & B&O RX tt in the early 80s to owning a B&K ST-140,  Music Reference RM5 pre & Rega Planar 3 by the end of the 80s.

i also had a TAS & Stereophile subscription back then and several issues of HiFi Heretic & other defunct magazines as well, so I ended up reading about a whole lot of gear that I never got a chance to hear.

Currently, I’m thoroughly enjoying a Tandberg TIA 3012 integrated, (and Erik, as you mentioned earlier in a post), it is a deep, rich sound as compared to my aural memory of the B&K ST-140 sound, more like the higher powered EX442 Sonata that I owned back in the day too.

I’ve owned several other 80s products as well but a few that really stood out were the B&K amps, the Onix OA-21s & Onix OA 20/2 integrateds, cj MV50, Mac MC225,  Music Reference RM9 & RM5 pre. I also auditioned a VSP Labs TransMos 150 & an Acoustat TNT120 that were both very memorable as well.

I always wanted to hear/own a Perreaux amp, PS Audio 200C, Forte 1a, Spectral DMA50 or Motif amp as I thought they were amongst the coolest looking pieces back in the 80s.

Oh yes, Electron Kinetics. I had the Eagle 2a. Great bass and dynamics, flat earth imaging.

The best of the 70's and 80's that I've owned or own.  Threshold SA3 slightly modded power supply bypass caps and  Bedini 25/25.

Just wanted to point out that Parts Connexion has a number of Nakamichi Stasis (Pass designed) amps on sale right now. If I wasn't strapped for cash and space I'd jump on them just for looks. :)

Best,

E

A couple years ago a friend gave me a Hafler P225 (pro version of DH220) with one faulty channel. The fault was a bad connection at the RCA input jack my friend had installed; an easy fix. After recapping, rewiring and then setting DC offset and bias, the amp sounded great. 

At the time I was using a Nelson Pass First Watt amp. After listening to the Hafler for a while, I found I preferred it to the First Watt amp. The Hafler has been in my system for more than a year now and surprisingly, I have no desire to swap it out. 

This amp was my favorite amp to drive a pair of Magnepan 1.6s I was playing with.

Agree with the original OP statement. Would add that speakers improved dramatically during the 80’s too. More than at any time since then.

I would say the most recent decade is the golden age of digital and headphones - things have improved substantially for headphones and DACs. 

It was solid state 80's amps that made me realize why I wasn't listening much any more.  Tubes ever since.

Hey @lloydc the 80's were also very active for tube amps. Is there gear from then you find holds up well?

Best,


E

I don't currently own a 1980's amplifiers. However, if I were in the market for a big/powerful amp, I think I would try one of the Nakamichi Stasis mkII amps that Parts Connexion is selling. 

Hi Eric, I can't say I know 80's tube amps well. Currently using a Mesa Baron from 1995, still happy with it.

It was a "light bulb" moment when I realized the reason I was disinterested with recorded music was due to cd's and solid state.  Fixed that!

@reubent Right??? I wish I had the space and cash right now.

@erik_squires - Yep Erik, I always heard good things about the NAK Stasis amps and the MkII versions are just so darn beefy looking. Anyone could be proud to have that huge hunk-o-metal on their shelf.

Mark Levinson 3 series are great even by todays amps.

Well, this is interesting, I don’t know which is right, but this article claims the first series of the Nak amps were better?

http://www.tonepublications.com/old-school/nakamichi-pa-7-amplifier/

Per other threads, the original PA-7 was pure class A and 150W/ch instead of 225W/ch


Best,

E

ask yourself this -- who designed them?

go thru the list of brands in the OP, and you'll find a lot of xlnt engineers...

Hmm, another "back in the day" thread. I guess its inevitable to recount how good the high end was back in the 80’s, and no doubt the good brands have lasted year after year. But 30+ year old components are going to develop issues and start to operate out of spec.

Yes I know that there will be individual amps that it seem time can’t kill, but those would be in the minority. And to find a tech that really knows old electronics is getting rare. But it’s okay, amp design is not exactly rocket science, and many technological advances have occurred since the 80’s.

A lot of new gear these days is actually pretty good too.

Hi 213!

For many of us who have been in the hobby for a long time these threads are ways of us sharing our experiences over time and connecting with other long-time hobbyists. A trip down memory lane if you will. This is also a good way to talk trends/fads and look at the winding road Hi-Fi has been on.

At the same time, all of my audio gear is less than 4 years old. :)



Best,


E

Eric, perhaps my jaded view has something to do with my experience with 80's gear.  My Luxman R-115 developed a volume and intermittent channel problem that got worse with time.  A yamaha cd player starting skipping after a few years.  My buddy's proton amp went south after 20 years.  Though I guess neither one of those would be considered high end.

The thing is, the beginning of the 80's was when all the big brands reduced the quality of their lines from what was offered during the golden age of audio, the 70's.  I suspect the truly high end managed to avoid this.  The Conrad Johnsons and Mark Levinsons of the era probably did just fine.  Carver made quite a name for themselves, but their gear didn't last forever.

Hey Runnin,

I definitely don't mean to say that everything from the 1980's was worth memorializing in a museum, but I was not really thinking of overseas mass-market products.

Best,


E

Rowland Model 5.  Still enjoy many late night hours with this amp. Also still have a couple of Eagle 2a, Acoustat TNT 200 and a Hafler XL280. Fell in love the CJ gear the Premier 4 on my Infinity RS 2bs the later the RS 1bs.  However that Rowland is not going anyway.  The good ole days huh..

No Melos fans? I bought a used 222 preamp in the 90's & am still enjoying it today, in fact right now. I had it services last year (for the first time) & they replaced some of the switches, & the volume pot. Apparently that was their weak points. I also have been enjoying sonic frontiers first version signature phono preamp for a dozen years or so. I think that one dates back to the early 90's. My amp is a staggering 5 watts per channel. It was built by Kornef, don't know when but it's old enough to have it's first service this year. This all drives lowther speakers which were a modern marvel in the 50's I believe. The system sounds incredibly real. Wide, deep, & 3D enough to fool you into believing they're in the room on a good record. It's also forgiving enough to make you not cringe on a record that is < perfect. With all the vinyl that is out there today, it's a great time to be alive. What a hobby! 

This was a fun thread to peruse.  Anyone mention Electrocompaniet or Superphon?  Think these were around in the '80s.

Threshold SA1 among the finest amps ever made 🎶😄

Good listening

Peter 

Hey Boxer - you wouldn't happen to have one of Jeff Korneff's 6bq5 integrateds would you?  I had one many years ago, sold it to someone in Washington state who was using it with Klipschhorns.  What an amp!  I now have a couple custom SE int amps built by Ed Duda, the chief amp designer of the old Lafayette Radio Corp....  And yes, what a hobby!!!

Lou - Nope, mine is a KT88 SET stereo amp with a total of 5 tubes. Two Kt88's, two EL84's (6bq5's), & one 5ar4 rectifier tube.The amp is very good. That stated, I wouldn't hesitate to buy anything he has made. Jeff is very approachable, I've talked to him a couple times over the phone. However, I don't think he is building or designing anymore, unfortunately. 

I'm with you, I wouldn't hesitate on any of his designs either.  I had one of his early 6bq5's.  

Can you post a picture of it, I'd love to see what it looks like.  Very interesting with 6bq5's for input tubes....