Amp for LS50

Cannot say I relate to this speaker.  That said, I liked what Rhing had to say about tube amplification.  I found the speaker to be a bit sterile and the tubes will improve that and make it more involving.  My recommendation would be an older VTL IT 85.  Solid current and quite musical in all aspects.  They would sing.

b_limo. I like the gear you found and I am very familiar with those pieces. I am jumping in here based on the use of Dynamat inside electronics ( before Dynamat, there were other materials I used ). I have been into resonance and vibration control my entire audio life ( over 50 years ). Applying Dynamat on other areas besides the top cover will get you even greater degrees of SQ. Apply it under the transformers, side walls, rear walls near the connections, and any place else. No joke. Also, play around with different " feet " for the gear, and add a weight of sorts to the tops of each piece ( a small slab of granite, or a hefty statue you might have ). Enjoy ! MrD.

Wow!  I’ve been listening to music this afternoon and my setup is finally starting to click really well.  I’ve never comprised a system that makes female vocals sound sooo sweet; talk about jaw hitting the floor.

I spent quite a bit of time yesterday and today cleaning and conditioning all the contact points in my entire system, including inside my amp and pre amp.  I also added a good amount of dynamat to the inside covers of the pre amp and amplifier.  I have never done this to a system before but Whoa, I absolutely cannot believe the difference.  I’ve never had a tweak do such improvements to the sound throughout the range.  I actually can’t believe that a bunch of deoxit and dynamat could do that much to the sound.  The highs and just shimmering now.  I’ve never had a system that was so detailed and revealing and yet it’s not bright or fatiguing.  

I am thoroughly impressed / happy with the setup!

Great combo, enjoy...   

Yes the ls50s definitely reward robust good quality amplification. 

I wholeheartedly agree with tcatch on his position of using high quality amplification with the KEF LS50’s. Since these excellent speakers have a relatively low cost barrier, many people have typically paired them with mediocre amps and come away disappointed because all they get is mediocre sound quality. These speakers don’t require mega-buck amplification to sound their best, they just need high quality sources and power. 

I have used low power power amplifiers with my KEF LS50 speakers with the exception of my 150 watt Texas Instruments TPA3255EVM Class D DIY amplifier. My restored and modified Dynakit Stereo 35 6BQ5/EL84 push-pull tube amp and my Pass DIY Sony VFET Class A push-pull amp are only rated at 15 watts per channel, but coupled with my Audio Research LS7 tube line stage, my system can create smooth, room-filling volume that has a room response lower than 40 Hz. This is without a powered subwoofer. I partly attribute this to the high damping factors of each power amplifier and the 13dB gain and 200 ohm output impedance of my ARC line stage. The point is that these amps produce low distortion with a hearty dosage of second order harmonics. 

The LS50’s can present a difficult load for amplifiers to drive. For tube amps, you need really good output transformers to handle the large frequency vs. impedance response swings. For solid state amps, you need plenty of current and the ability to drive low speaker impedance loads. I built my Pass DIY amp with a beefy power supply using an overspecified 400 VA toroidal power transformer and 60,000 uF of power filtering capacitance per channel to handle transient peaks. That said, the amp’s massive heat sinks are only warm to the touch. 

@b_limo 

That's great. I bet the McCormack and B&K go great together, enjoy.

Cheers,

Scott

I thought I’d go ahead and update the thread with what I ended up purchasing...

sooo, I found a good deal on a B&K Reference 4420 and a McCormack Micro Line Drive.  I paid $625 for both so I came in under budget and ended up with a system that should keep me content for a week or two ;)

This is my first B&K amp I’ve had and I’m enjoying it!  I feel like I stole it at $275!  Thanks Luis, I appreciate you!

Thanks for the input everyone!  I took long looks at everything suggested and learned about some new gear so Thank You!

Happy listening!!

@b_limo 

I've had the NuPrime IDA-16 for about two years and can wholeheartedly recommend it. As Vade Foster of TAS found out it was an excellent match for the LS50. 

The Outlaw RR2160 is an intriguing choice. It has received very good reviews and the bass management is a big plus. With the added bonus that you could get new carpet for the listening from.

Those two amps  would be my top choices from you list. I wish you good luck with your decision.

Cheers,

Scott

Help Help!!

I’m about to pull the trigger on something and I need some final help!

I’ve narrowed it down to the following:
-NuPrime IDA 16 ($1250)
-Rogue Audio Sphinx 2 ($1200)
-McCormack DNA1 Deluxe ($1000+$300-$400 for what preamp??)
-Hegel H160 ($1500, more than I want to spend)
-Outlaw RR2160 ($799!  Allows me to put in nice new carpet in my listening room)

I’m leaning towards the NuPrime because of the reviews, price, the dac is a plus, aesthetics are nice but am concerned about the synergy with the Kef LS50’s.  I see that the NuPrime doesn’t double down in power from 8 to 4 ohms, other than that, it looks great!  I have read all the reviews on the NuPrime so I can’t find many other reviews with it being paired with LS50’s.

Sounding absolute top notch off Bel Canto Reference 1000m (Class D).

Another vote for the Hegel 160 mentioned above.  I’ve been very happy with this combo.  Quality amp!

I have used the following with LS50

Bryston 4B-SST (300W Class AB)
Bryston 7B-SST (600W Class AB)
Benchmark AHB2 (100 W NOT class D)
Parasound A23 (125 W Class A/AB)
Peachtree Nova 150 (150 W Class D)

All above are at 8 Ohms.

The best was Benchmark AHB2. It was clear and fatigue free. Just a brilliant amp and one I may buy again. The second favorite was the Peachtree Nova 150 which was a nice combination of the Parasound and Bryston. You can listen to the Peachtree 8+ hours a day like I do at my home office. I am very sensitive to harshness and get fatigued easily. With the Peachtrree none of that ever happens.

Like I mentioned above the plan is to upgrade to the NOVA 500 if I do not get another AHB2.

The OP would be well served by trying the FREE trial of the NOVA line for 30 days. Everything he asks for is covered in one box.

Another line that I can recommend with the LS50 is the Hegel integrateds. I heard the H360 and Roost with KEF Blades and it was very good (not very loud volume level). They will also work well with the much easier to drive LS50. The Roost and H360 are not far off the price the OP wanted to pay.

BTW - Darko is now using the Hegel H590 to drive his LS50s.
https://darko.audio/2018/10/a-short-film-about-the-hegel-h590/

@d2girls interesting you would say that about the Ragnarok, since you have the Yggy listed and that faired quite poorly from a noise perspective in a recent test I read.  

I would echo those warning against using the LS-50's with low-end solid state amps.  I went through several before I found a good match with a tube preamp and a hybrid power amp from Frank van Alstine.  You don't want anything that tends towards the bright/forward/edgy side of things.  If I were starting over I'd be tempted to try a tube integrated like the PrimaLuna Prologue.

I love my KEF LS50s with the Vinnie Rossi LIO.  And my dad gets amazing sound from his KEF LS50s paired with NuPrime IDA-8.  (I think the NuPrime is 1k).  Good luck!Margot

I tested Ragnorak on my LS50. Very disappointed with the sound. I was comparing it to my Pass Labs but it was no contest what was the better amp. And going by my audio memory which is quite good, my anthem 225 was a lot better than the Rag. I think the rag is a waste of money. 

As as per John Atkinson measurements, the rag cannot maintain low distortion over prolonged periods of time on demanding music, such as classical or EDM. 34% THD after 60 listening to half of RAM...

@b_limo b_limo if you find yourself wanting a Ragnarok, I have one with a box that has been used very little.  Perfect condition that I'm willing to sell.  I'm buying a pair of actives so have no use for the Rag any longer.  ~Lance

Abasia, Thanks for the input!  I do like Schiit products; I’ve had a couple of thier products before.  I’ll look into the Ragnarock.

I am currently just using a Red Dragonfly dac with Jitter Bug streamjng tidal from a laptop.

I’m still trying to figure out the signature sound of the Kefs but they seem pretty neutral.  The sound that I enjoy is revealing, sweet and airy.  I like that top end detail / sparkle but I also enjoy being able to hear deep into the mix with lots of detail / ambient retrieval etc.  

For reference, my favorite set up this far was a Classe CA200, lightspeed attenuator, schiit bifrost dac, paradigm signature 2 V3 with berrylium tweeters...

What sort of sound signature are you looking for?
Actually, all amps sound great with the LS50 and while a better amp does make it sound a little bit better, I found my sweet spot to be the Schiit Ragnarok and anything after that is really minimal. A very good amp within your budget is the Cambridge CXA80, it's not as clean and revealing as the Schiit, but it comes with a decent DAC and is quite satisfying. I personally do not find the Musical Fidelity M5si a good match as it becomes too sibilant/brillant/harsh for me, but you may have higher tolerance. 
Also, save some money for a good DAC, I find it affects the sound much more than the amp, especially for the LS50.

I agree with the other poster, $1000 is not enough to drive LS50’s. You may need to go up to $2-3k to be honest.

But if you can’t, then perhaps the NAD receivers or Outlaw Audio RR receiver is a good buy. Peachtree is good too, focus on integrated amps with less features. Two channel, don’t get some 5.1 channel home theater receiver with 10 million inputs.

If you are seriously considering musical fidelity, check out upscaleaudio.com. He has the m2si integrated at 40% off the 1k msrp. Unless you go used and get more for your $$$. And can stretch it a bit, this Hegel here on AUDIOGON would have plenty of power for your ls50s 

https://www.audiogon.com/listings/lis98g51-hegel-h-160-h160-h-160-integrated-amplifier-solid-state

Good quality amplification (not necessarily big power output) will make your LS50 perform optimally. The LS50 need good quality amplification and upstream electronics, as somebody has already suggested here, in order to hear what these speakers are capable of.

I heard these KEF LS50 paired with the Naim Uniti Nova (streamer/DAC/integrated amp), which is an all-in-one box solution, and they sounded fabulous together very musical very fluid solid punchy and had excellent musical drive or rhtymic drive. The Naim Uniti Nova is rated at only 80 wpc @ 8 ohms and its power amplifier section uses class AB design. 
The Naim Uniti Nova has a very good digital streamer/DAC as well as integrated amp sections. 

However, the Rotel RA-1592 integrated amp and the Musical Fidelity M6Si integrated will also make your LS50 to sing. But as you upgrade your amp and upstream electronics the better they will sound or perform. Unlike other speakers within their price range (sub $2k/pair bookshelf speakers) these KEF LS50 would have to be fed by quality electronics in order to perform and sound good.

I had my LS50s running off my Ayre VX-5/20 while I was awaiting my new floorstanders to be shipped.  I was amazed at how well they performed with high quality power.  I have attempted to find a less powerful amp to run them in a second system and realize after some trials they really shine with quality watts.  You may want to acquire the amp upgrade first and enjoy what the LS50s can do while you are awaiting your speaker upgrade.

Wow, That Kinki Studio exm1 looks to be insane...  I read Nonoises review (in addition to some online info / reviews).  Looks to be quite the integrated amp for $2200.  I’m not sure if I have that in my budget right now though, unfortunately.  We’ll see...

Now all I need is about 10 more good choices to really confuse me, hahaha.  

Let me be clear, I wasn't necessarily endorsing the Mivera amp above amps by Nord or Apollon that also use the AS1200 module. There are many options out there using ICE and HYPEX modules in amps. Apollon, Nord & Wyred4sound (used) should all be available in your price range. d2girls is correct that the KEFs will reward you with better electronics, no doubt about it. 

The Peach tree is okay but I was not satisfied with the model I heard... I don’t think $1k is enough of a budget for an amp to pair with the kefs unless you search hard for a decent ab unit in the used market. Unlike a lot of $1k speakers the kefs will scale with better electronics. I had a $15k digital front end class a pass Labs with kefs and it was sublime and a huge upgrade over the anthem 225i I had before. 

I highly recommend the Kinki Studio ex-m1 for your kefs! Within your budget too if you can stretch $500 as it is both a preamp and amplifier. 

Good luck 

@b_limo It sounds like your brother's Peachtree is not the new stuff made in Canada. They basically restarted the company with N. American manufacturing and new designer. They ditched the tubes for lower noise floor.

The NOVA line and LS50 are a very good match. I had a Benchmark DAC3 + AHB2 hooked up to the LS50 and it was a bit better than the NOVA 150 but it also cost more than 2x the price of the NOVA 150. I sold the Benchmarks and kept the NOVA and LS50. 

Peachtree give you a 30 day trial so, if you are inclined, do a little bit more research on this combo. You really don't have much to lose. The new NOVA 500 has a new DAC and newer preamp section.

https://darko.audio/2017/01/dancing-with-the-big-boys-the-powerfully-persuasive-peachtree-nova300/

Here is my next Peachtree upgrade.
https://www.peachtreeaudio.com/nova500-amplifier-with-dac.html

Awesome!  Thank You Everyone who replied!  All the suggestions are options I would definately consider.

  I didn’t know that the Rotel and Musical Fidelity had such good reviews.  I wasn’t up to date with those!  Thanks.

Good to hear about the Peachtree stuff.  I liked my Nova Pre/220 and 220se that I had.  I took my LS50’s to my brothers house and hooked them up to his Nova Pre / 220 and wasn’t impressed to be honest.  I couldn’t believe that I could turn it up to 1 o’clock on the volume dial. Made me realize that these Kefs are power hungry, yet I have them hooked to a little 50 watt amp and they sound pretty good so I’m not sure that something like the Rotel or Musical Fidelity wouldn’t sound fantastic...

I’m leaning towards something like that Class D or Mivera amp (Thanks for turning me on to Mivera; I will be reasearching them!).  I figure if I can get some kind of crazy power and then pair it to a sweeter sounding preamp, that would be the hot ticket.  

The Kefs are sounding great though the more they break in.  Interesting as almost all of my previous speakers were pre owned so I never realized how much a speaker can change in the first 15-20 hours.  I wonder how much of it was me adjusting to thier sound.

Your KEFs will respond well to a LOT of power. I have R500s in my second system powered by a Mivera amp with an IcePower AS1200 module and 700 watts/8 ohms per channel works very well. One of the amps from Apollon or Nord using IcePower or Hypex amps would be a good alternative if you wish to go class D at the budget you mention. As the LS50s are quite revealing, any increases in preamp quality and transparency you can afford will be rewarded. 

I have the Class D CDA 250 and like it a lot.  I have owned it for about a year.  I can listen for hours, as it is not a fatiguing listen at all.  

Admittedly, I do not know which type of modules it uses (ice power, etc), which seems to be important to know in any discussion about D type amplifiers, in general. 

I am not sure how the Class D audio will pair with the KEF LS 50s though.

I am finding that the CDA 250 sounds better with some of my speakers than with others.  The other amp in rotation is the tube Prima Luna Prologue 5, which I have had for 13 years now.

I am finding that the CDA 250 sounds better with the traditional 2 driver speakers I own (Opera, Wharfedale), whereas the Prima Luna sounds better with the single driver systems that I like (Omega).

Rich 

I am using the Peachtree Nova 150 at the moment. It is very good and fatigue free. I could get better amplification but I do not think it is warranted with the LS50. I will be buying a new set of speaker soon, KEF Reference 1 or Magico A3 and for that better amplification makes more sense to me.

I am also going to upgrade my Nova 150 to the Nova 500 in Spring 2019. The Nova 500 has a different preamp section than the 150 and 300. I will likely drive the LS50 with the Nova 500. Overkill for sure but the price of entry is rather low.

Get the Rotel RA-1592 stereo integrated amp ($2500 new) it has built-in DAC.
Also consider the Musical Fidelity M5si I integrated amp ($2k ish new) or the M6si integrated amp for $3k new.
These will pair really well with the KEF LS50.