Understood.
I already decided that if I end up choosing anything other then the OverDrive SE (and I have high hopes for that particular unit because it is actually designed and built for exactly what I need, computer audio files), then I owe it to myself to try out either the Berkeley or Offramp USB to spdif converter. |
Offramp 5 is simply the best and the Dynamo power supply is a must.....50% improvement. No exaggeration, no kidding. I have used the OR with and without the Dynamo and again it is a must. Steve will say the same thing as it is just the dimple truth.
Looking forward to your notes and findings. |
Ha! The simple truth...not dimple. LOL |
Steve said the OverDrive SE essentially has an Off-Ramp 5 inside it. So an external OR5 would be redundant.
I can't wait to get them all in! |
Correct on the OD dac only in your group. Enjoy your Lampi! |
Mattnshilp...sorry to hear you are not bringing in the Accustic Arts Dac. I have heard great things about it and was thinking about either getting that one or the Luxman. I own the Luxman cdp which I use as a DAC but it has some limitations in terms of high res capability and only has SPDIF input, no USB. |
Matt,
I'm glad you are digging the Big Six, like Charles said the Lamp DACs are music makers, they present the music in a natural way that many DACs just can't do. I'm sure the Empirical, Berkeley, Auralic, and many other DACs might measure better as far as noise and all that, but can they get you emotionally connected to the music. Musical preferences rule the day, so what gets me immersed in the music might not be another person's cup of tea. But if you already like the sound then you will learn to really love it.
Take it slow and roll in the tubes, hopefully you will hear positive improvement like I did when rolling glass in the Big Six.
Since you are running a Mac Mini like Grannyring, the OffRamp might be the missing link, but in my experience and some of my crazy friends, we preferred using the USB input straight into the server (but mine is PC based) rather than going through the Sonicweld Diverter. So in some cases the BSB might be good enough or even preferred. The convereter gave the sound more focus and slightly better PRaT, but you lost quite a bit of the magic 3D spaciousness of the Lamp DAC. Just my experience, so I thought I should share.
Will be cool to follow your DAC shootout, lots of big names in that mix. Enjoy the DAC my friend, I miss it already! |
I have heard great things about the AA.
The shipping fees were a bit tough to swallow with such good gear in my list already.
Sorry. |
Mattnshilp - I would be game in sending you an Off-Ramp5 and Dynamo power supply to use with the Lampi to compare with the Overdrive DAC alone. Its about $2.5K worth of stuff, so I would need another refundable deposit, but at least the Lampi would have a running chance. This is what Grannyring is proposing.
"just when I though it could not possibly sound any better"
-my wife
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
Steve,
Have you heard the Big Six before, or better yet have you heard it in your system? I have heard both, and your OR5 at last year's Newport and RMAF shows. The sound was solid and I enjoyed the pairing with Vapor, but it was driven from a tube amp which Matt doesn't have. I think the Lamp DAC injected some life into his system, which is evident in his initial feelings towards the Big Six.
If you have heard the Big Six, then okay I can understand you only giving the Lamp a running chance if used with the OR5 in light of Grannyring's experience with the same Mac Mini source. If Matt used the Antipodes server or something similar then that USB input might be "good" enough.
But if you haven't tried the Big Six in your system, then you could be surprised by what Matt reports back after comparing the two, so don't count the Big Six out until the count of 10.
Good luck Matt, you have a real battle ahead of you. |
I have to tell you other converters may not make a huge difference, but the OR5 and Dynamo will take the Lampi to another level with a computer....any computer.
I would not believe it if not for my recent experience. I had an Apple 2009 mini with Mojo Audio power supply, large SSD drive, all the software mods, and the improvement was the single biggest audio upgrade I had ever made.
Perhaps your L6 will not have the same result, but you must try it because if history repeats itself here, you will wear an even bigger smile.
Have fun. |
Grannyring,
I sold my L4/G4 to my friend and he ended up selling the OffRamp 4, said he preferred going straight through the USB. He uses a modded Mac Mini and Mojo power supply.
I will let him know of your findings with the Offramp 5/Dynamo, which must be in another world compared to the OR4 if it was the single biggest audio upgrade of your life. It would be a win win situation if Steve would offer him a home demo with a refundable deposit.
Happy listening.... |
I'm interested as to how the PS DirectStream stacks up. |
Shaw - I have not heard the new Directstream, but I have heard the Vivaldi in two different rooms at RMAF. The Overdrive beats it IMO. The Analog DAC was compared in the latest Overdrive review. The Overdrive beat it according to the reviewer. I have heard the Wavelength, Berkeley, Ayre, Chord Qute, and Bryston. Overdrive beats all of these. My roommate used the Lampi7 in his room in Chicago Axpona. He says the Overdrive beats it too. I have not heard the top of line Resonessence or the Bricasti yet.
I have both tube and SS monoblocks. The difference with tubes is mainly bass and depth. A bit more smooth on vocals maybe. My SS is extremely good though.
Each Overdrive version that I use at shows is different than the one previously used. It undergoes upgrades periodically. This is one big advantage of my products. I continuously try to improve them and offer these upgrades to my customers whenever possible. Each show sound Is improvedmovermthe last. This show is no exception.
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
Steve,
Congratulations, you have designed a top-notch DAC. When I get the chance I will have to try it out in my own system. Comparing DACs in different systems introduces too many variables. If you have a chance you should hear the Lamp for yourself, it really does present the music in a natural and realistic way.
To my ears, a good tube amp can extract more emotion and body from vocals than its SS counterpart. The difference with tubes is that SS has much more control of the bass and grip of the leading edge definition.
Hope to hear your improvements to the Overdrive this weekend! |
Shawbros3
Need the Dynamo power supply. Not sure what else was going on in that system etc... No way of knowing. |
Matt, what happened this weekend at Audio Connection? Why didn't you hear the Aesthetix? Will you be able to go back to listen as I'd love to hear how it sounds to you against all the other DAC's. Let us know. Thanks. |
Steve says his roomate preferred the Overdrive DAC over the LampizatOr level 7, that's him. Who knows what type of sound he likes, we all simply have personal tastes and biases. Who knows what Matt likes in sound/music presentation? I certainly have my individual tastes as well. I think LampizatOr nails the realism, and innate beauty of music, just "natural" not hyped hifi. If the Overdrive matches or exceeds Matt's Lampi Big 6 I'll be surprised (and impressed). Should be very interesting.
Charles, |
These will all be heavyweight dac champs and I would think all appeal to different tastes, systems, system preferences, music preferences etc....
This thread will be fun to follow for sure. Goodness I would love to have all these killer dacs in my music room! |
Hey Charles,
I think you hit the mark here, we all like different things about musical reproduction. I let a good friend of mine borrow my Lamp L4/G4 and he preferred his Metrum Octave in his system. I was surprised, but can understand why, because music is personal and our ears like different things. Some prefer the hyped hifi sound and others like an easier going natural sound.
It was difficult for me to let go of that Big Six, because I was very happy with what I was hearing from my system. But the opportunity arose and I wanted to hear what the Lamp's DSD sound could offer. It appears Matt likes the Big Six I sold him, and if he does get connected with the Lamp sound like I did, it will be hard for him to let go of its natural sound. It has "soul".
Steve designs the Overdrive, so it's understandable he has bias. Even reading the review it wasn't clear the reviewer chose his DAC over the Analog DAC, more like each had a different presentation that might suit certain listening preferences. To say that the Lamp would need an dressed up OR5 to have a fighting chance is a bit premature, especially since he hasn't even heard the Lamp sound.
Btw, I need to hear that Yamamoto DAC someday! I will send you an email after I get more hours on this Big 7.
Sorry if this is derailing your thread Matt, didn't mean to. You are a lucky camper man, have fun with the shootout! |
Work schedule, and wife's b-day take precedence. So busy. I promise I'll call CTsooner!
All are great DAC's. I'm sure I'd be happy with any of them. It's just finding the right synergy for my system and my tastes.
Steve, thanks for the offer, but I just don't have any more to invest right now. I have money in on your Overdrive, credit card charge on the DS and outright purchase of the Aeris and Big 6. I'm tapped.
Aeris arrives Friday. I will try to compare Aeris and Big6 over the weekend.
Sorry for the wait, I'm dying to get them all in as well. |
Matt it's all good man. I know that Johnny is interested and would love to help you out with the Aesthetix. He's always available, lol. I know that everyone is interested and like one poster said, what's good for you. isn't necessarily good for.....but that's the fun of the whole thing. |
I would not believe it if not for my recent experience. I had an Apple 2009 mini with Mojo Audio power supply, large SSD drive, all the software mods, and the improvement was the single biggest audio upgrade I had ever made.
Bill, I thought you sold your Offramp? My roommate used the Lampi7 in his room in Chicago Axpona. He says the Overdrive beats it too. Vapor I presume. Different speakers and systems. Hard to ground that statement in any objective reality without blinded and/or side-by-side comparisons, and thus the potential contribution of Mattnshilp with his OCD Dac extravaganza!!! |
Matt - I will send you a set of Final Drives and a Short-Block to use with the Overdrive. You can try with and without, bit I think you will find these to be essential.
Thanks,
Steve N.
Empirical Audio |
The problem with DACs is that the field continues to evolve rapidly and whatever you choose is likely to depreciate precipitously. Compared to most other component categories, it's hard to choose a DAC for the long haul and have it hold up. Isn't that the gospel truth... |
Obviously it's all subjective and some will take anyone's word on what THEY think is the best, but this is fun stuff. I'm interested in what Matt has to say. Sounds like all of the DAC's in this thread are getting a ton of good press and in the right system, room, folks wont' go wrong. It all depends on what you like etc... This is one of the best threads going on the board now. thanks to all of you who are helping out. |
Agear, I have three dacs presently. One is the stock BMC PureDac, which I use with a music server source. It has a "analog" volume control, which of course, isn't really analogue, but it sounds very good through a line stage with the PureDac set at 59 volume. Second I have an Exemplar eXpo T-105 universal play based on the Oppo 105. It is my only transport, but having a music server results in my seldom playing cds or sacds. Since you can input via USB I do use it as a dac. Finally, I have an Empirical Audio Legacy dac that plays everything in double DSD. I even have some original recordings in double DSD. I suspect this last dac will put me ahead of the wave for a few months! It is nice to not have to use Itunes to organize my music and having to deal with its being dedicated to just playing MP3. |
Matt.. One point about the PSA DirectStream.. I'm not sure if you're getting the kit or a fresh unit, but in any case the DS needs a good 200+ hours to really get it's mojo going.. It's good right of the box but it does need some serious break-in.. And fyi it doesn't sound anything like a PWD MKII.. |
I went with the brand new unit. Not the kit.
Fortunately for me, the Aeris, Big6 and OverDrive SE are all pre-owned or demo units so they are well broken in. The DS will be the only one that will require a week or 2 of break in (sigh). I will just put on some internet Sirius radio and let her play for 2 weeks...
I wish I had a second system to run so my primary would not be locked up for that time.
The Aeris arrived today. I will plug her in tonight and see her shine. I'm honestly very curious as to how the Aeris compares to the Lampy. I have a friend who swears by the Aeris; a friend whose ears I trust implicitly. He ditched his pre-amp after using his Aeris and runs straight to the amps(which would be great since my pre was a fortune and I could use that extra cha-ching since I'm heading towards an awesome stereo, and a divorce all at the same time!!!!!).
But my pre-amp currently adds SO much to my music I can't imagine giving it up. Which is a ridiculous statement because a pre-amp is not supposed to add anything. But the Criterion adds passion and emotion and involvement and happiness (Audiophile phrases, not Hifi phrases)....
Steve - Thank you very much for the extras! I can't wait!
All - I hope to provide you with honest and clear explanations. I apologize in advance if my communication of the differences is disappointing or vague. I'm actually starting to get nervous about posting my results. ;) I'll just say it like I hear it. |
"I'll just say it like I hear it". That's all anyone can expect, reading your posts I'd say you express yourself clearly. I suspect that these comparisons will be informative and much fun to follow.
Charles, |
Agear, ya can't use the OffRamp with my Romulus CD player. If I were using a computer, the OR would be a must have. |
Hey Mat, just in case you connect multiple DACs to your darling Rowland Criterion... XLR inputs 1 and 2 have been exercised the longest. XLR 3 is also well broken in. RCA 1 has also had good use. I have not exercised any other inputs. Saluti, G. |
Agear, ya can't use the OffRamp with my Romulus CD player. If I were using a computer, the OR would be a must have. I know that. :/ Your system link vaporized....??? I'm actually starting to get nervous about posting my results. ;) I'll just say it like I hear it. I cannot wait to ridicule your findings! Lampi versus turntable? |
Guido. Thank you.
RCA are #5 and #6.
When you say rca1 do you mean RCA #5? |
For those interested. Branislav just posted a comparison between the Lampy Big 6 and the Concert Fidelity DAC-040 (without battery option):
http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?rdgtl&1317969445&openflup&143&4#143
Summary: "Concert Fidelity slightly more impressive, for what its worth, with electronic music but Lamp more musical with most everything else...wish I could keep both and maybe I will but I might have to let Concert Fidelity go in the future."
Thought that comparison belongs in this thread. It certainly fits the thread title. |
@ Mattnshilp, you still Have my attention, back a few post, I said that this is the most profound thread for digital in a long time, after that, nearly the whole community poured on this thread, they also agree with my statement, like I said, It's not everyday you see this kind of comparisions with so many top dacs!, I am also very pleased you will make your impressions the way you hear it, good or bad, nothing to be nervous about, Happy listening. |
Oops, you are absolutely correct Matt: the RCA input I have used is input 5. Guido |
Anyone here tried the Lampi tubed SBox transport with a Big 6? I have heard good things about this combo, especially going Ethernet vs Wireless.
Lampis also undergo continuous tweaking, so I suspect the current Big7 may be even better that older demo L7s.
The French TotalDac uses tubes and gets good feedback. I heard one once, but didnt blow me away vs my L4, though it was good. What really impresses me is DSD128 on the Lampi DSD Dac! Pity I only have the equivalent of 13 DSD2x albums. |
The Lampi L7 is the first tube Dac on the market using DHT tubes (since Nov 2013). It is flattering to them that Allnic is comign out with a DHT Dac now. |
Hi Matt. I am going to ask you to add another DAC to your comparisons. But you will not have to pay any money. Meitner MA-1 DAC
Explanation below.
Two of my Audio buddies, who have a lot of experience in Audio have had a chance to compare the DS to several other DACs, one being the Meitner, in more then one system.
Lets just say you need to do the same. One of those friends you and I both know and I am sure he would be willing to bring his Meitner over for you to compare.
My suggestion is to compare the other DACs first and get your one or two favorites and then compare it/them to the Meitner. |
Also the Meitner has out performed a Lampizator L4 DSD only DAC and a Phasure DAC. Those two I heard for myself.
The Phasure gave a good fight and lost by only the smallest of margins.
A higher level/newer Lampizator DSD might make a difference.
All of the above was by more then one set of ears. |
I wish the Phasure NOS1a (current model) is part of this shootout considering the older version (NOS1) replaced the followign according to the Phasure site, and I am not even sure if this list is up to date.
Emm Labs CDSD SE/DCC2 SE
Emm Labs (various types)
MSB Gold Link III
Empirical Audio Offramp 4/Overdrive
Empirical Audio (various types)
Audio Note (various types)
Metric Halo LIO-8
Berkely Alpha DAC
TwinDAC+
CrazyT
Pacific Microsonics Model I
Pacific Microsonics Model II
DACMagic 2
Wired4Sound DAC2
Weiss Minerva
Weiss Medea
Weiss Medea+
Weiss (various types)
dCS Delius / Purcell (?)
dCS (various types)
Ayre QB-9
DAD AX24
PSAudio Perfect Wave
PSAudio Perfect Wave MKII
Twisted Pear Buffalo I
Twisted Pear Buffalo II
CEC TL51 CD transport / AudioMagic
Altmann DAC
Cantatis Ouverture 24/192
Bryston BDA-1
Lampizator L5 with DSD |
Wisnon - I am intrigued by that Allnic DAC. But I am going to wait and decide amongst these for now. As the thread states, my primary goal is the best Red Book/16-44 sound I can get.
HiFial - I will call Merrill and see if he will donate his MA-1 to the round-up. He offered once already so I'm sure he will oblige. I want to wait until I'm done with the ones I have. I need to re-claim some of my investment...
Guido - Thanks! |
Matt.. New review of the DirectStream. They LOVE it on redbook :-) http://bitperfectsound.blogspot.ca/2014/05/directstream-i.html |
OK. First impressions.
I think everyone knows my system. If not, check out my Virtual System, I am pretty sure it's current.
Thanks to Merrill of Merrill Audio for lending me a pair of his 2 meter single ended and balanced interconnects to compare dac's with as little variation as possible.
I use a variety of songs (preset list on Amara)including pop, rock, classical, broadway, movie soundtrack, jazz and blues. About 28 songs total; but I don't listen to the whole song sometimes.
To me, the gold standard is to forget I'm listening critically and get lost in the music. I will point out hifi characteristics, but my final choice will be the one that makes music the best IN MY SYSTEM, TO MY EARS. Take what I say with a grain of salt as I am not a professional reviewer.
Aeris vs. Big 6:
I am trying to give each unit the best chance possible, so burn in is very important. My Big6 has plenty of time on it, so that's cooked. As I started to listent to the Aeris it became apparent very quickly that it is younger then I thought it would be. I think the last owner didn't use it that much. I am waiting to get a number from him to know for sure, but I am pretty sure it needs a lot more cooking...
Jeff Rowland is well known to require almost 1000 hours to really sound it's best. I started cooking the Aeris today. I'm hoping its got at least a few hundred hours on it, but it doesn't sound like it does yet (or it's not as good as I thought it was going to be). So all of my comments are made on what I am assuming is an not yet burned in Aeris. Please keep that in mind. I will continue to offer comments as it burns in.
Frist impressions:
The Big6 is clearly hand built. The front plate is nicely finished and looks professional. The box is wood and the top is acrylic, all well put together. The point to point is well executed and the tubes are well seated; it's built with passion and love, but NOT built in a high tech facility. I was surprised how light it was.
The Aeris is heavy ! It weighs as much as a VW Beetle and is built like a Breguet watch (and is just as beautiful). The external power supply is equally heavy and well built. It looks as if it were built in the MacLaren or Ferrari plant.
Not that any of that really matters. But it does suggest reliability.
The Aeris locked in the moment I hooked it up (USB only)and worked flawlessly. It took a bit of figuring out to get the Big 6 to work. That may just be due to the fact that the Big 6 came first; I think I needed to figure out the order of USB plug, close Amarra, re-assign USB output, and re-open Amarra. I'll find out when I hook the Big 6 back in again if that protocol works or it needs some fenagling.
The Big 6 is what everyone says it is. It stomped on my PS Audio PWII, chewed it up and spit out transistors and copper. From the moment I turned it on, music poured from my speakers. I could have stopped the shoot-out before it even started. With this design I found no limits on top or bottom end. The highs flowed with no sibilence, brightness or restrictions; very musical and engaging. The lows were surprisingly extended, reaching even lower then the PS PWII although I think there was a teeny bit of unbridled power down there; the reigns were held but not as tightly as with the Aeris.
Mids were magic, as you would expect. Not colored. Not dark. Not warm. Just right. Female vocals were simply stunning and deep male voices resonated just right. The only style of music it struggled with was pop/electronic. it seamed to lose a bit of grip with a complex drum kit rhythm, synthesizers blaring and electric guitar jamming. But with more classic Rock it came right back in line. Jazz, Blues, etc were equally wonderful and engaging. I forgot I was listening several times and cauhght myself tapping and singing along, eyes closed, lost in the music. Classical was defined and expansive, with nice dynamics (although not what the Aeris provided from a dynamic standpoint).
The Big 6 had a wider soundstage but the Aeris's was deeper. Big 6 put every instrument and performer where it belonged and defined it nicely. I could use a laser pointer to identify performers with the Aeris. The Big 6 threw sound outside the speakers, the Aeris did not.
I used the stock tubes with the Big 6 to be fair, although I have heard that it just gets better once swapping tubes (and I have a few to play with).
The Aeris was the picture of accuracy. Highs were extended, but bright at times and mid's had an added presence, almost like a reverb to be honest. Lows were tight, very well controlled. There was music for certain, but something was in the way; like eating pasta thats just a bit harder/less cooked then Al-Dente.
This DAC is the reference for my feiend Guido Corona who is a self-proclaimed Rowland groupie, but has a great ear that I have learned to trust over time; and he IS a professional reviewer. With his urging to hear the Aeris, I have to assume that my Aeris is young and will grow into something special. I WANT to like the Aeris. But what I heard was more Hi-Fi and less Music. Considering the multitude of top notch reviews about the Aeris, I have to assume it needs more time to show it's true colors.
if I had to chose now, the choice would be obvious. But I don't (since I own both of them) and I want to give myself and you all a true comparison. So I'm running Sirius Sat through the computer via USB to the Aeris and I'll let it simmer for a week or two. Hopefully the previous owner can get back to me and tell me how much time it has on it.
Let me know if there are any questions.
OK, let the criticism begin!!! lol.... |
4orreal - sorry. There are dozens of DAC's. If anyone wants to send me a DAC to add to the shoutout, feel free.
I have already been contacted by one small manufacturer to get his product in my shoutout. I'm happy to listen if anyone wants, but opinions will be honest and unrestricted....
I chose the small list for my specific needs, from opinions and suggestions from you guys and reviews in print and on-line. I am confident I will find a keeper.
And no, I haven't called John at Audio Connection yet. I've been bad. I will though, I swear. |
4orreal, I think the Phasure tends to get excluded due to its cumbersome setup requirements. Also, did you see the recent computer audiophile shootout. It was bested by the Killer dac and PBD depending on the listener....
Hifial, I thought you were a Phasure convert. Is it Meitner now? Bruce Brown re-reviewed a current DSD Lampi with Duelund caps (versus the cheap Russians that were in the original unit), and he said its the best DSD he has heard. He has had both the Meitner and Phasure in-house. |
Matt,
Sounds like the Big Six sounds more effortless at this point than the Aeris. Though constriction is often times cured with further break-in. The Big Six needed lots of time to open up, at least in my system. But it sounded "natural" right off the bat.
Interesting results so far, keep it coming...
Is the heavyweight champion Empirical DAC next in line? |
Mattnshilp: as I posted here, if you are using the stock tubes, you're in for a shocker if you try the National Union VT-99. |
Jafox,
Calling the Sylvania VT-99 trash is really crazy, unless your system has to have one particular tube to shine. I settled on the National Union VT-99 in combination with the staggered Tung-Sol rectifier because the overall sound had better extension and treble. But to say the Sylvania is flat and distant is super surprising, but that very well be the case in your system. In mine the Sylvania sounds great, a bit more chill but still damn fine and 3D sounding. The Tung-Sol VT-99 has a more 3D/holographic presentation and just as extended than the Nationals in my system, but is a bit lean in the mid-range. To my ears, all the VT-99's I tried were pretty darn good in the Big Six, none of them were "trash". The rectifiers make a contribution to the sound as well so Matt should try that too.
Goes to show you how differently we all hear... |
