Ever since the first grade I've been fascinated by clean power and how it impacts my audio system. During recess I would escape to a nearby audio shop to see the latest Power conditioners and regenerators.
PS Audio seems to be the dominant player in power regeneration with their mystery box for thousands of dollars.
I don't have a power regenerator (I do use a power conditioner), and sometimes the sound coming through my system is alot nicer and I wonder if it's related to electrons flowing out of the wall, and would it be better to rejuvenate via regenerater all those electrons?
With that being said has anyone done AB testing of a power regenerator which is extremely easy to do to see the difference? And what are your findings?
I did some quick A/B testing between my older PS Audio Power Plant P5 and the Bryston BIT-15 which is based on a balanced power transformer (it's mostly a rebadged Torus design I think). In my system the Bryston offered noticeable improvement in dynamics and background blackness, with no down sides at all.
Now I have a Puritan PSM156 on the way to see if that is even better, or if I should stick with the Bryston.
I imagine this is really dependent on the power situation in your town and your particular home as well. That probably explains why there is so many completely different opinions on the topic.
I’ve done A/B testing over the years with various amps. Some benefited greatly, some didn’t. It depends on how tolerant the power supply is to poor quality power. Now I just use it for all my components and don’t worry about it.
Jerry
PS the power at my house has consistently 2-4% distortion. the output of the regenerator is .1%,
I would like to think that regenerator improves a system but in all fairness most people have electricity sources that do not require it. And therefore it appears to be in most cases a gimmick.
Don’t see Power regenerators at audio shows very often, which is where it clearly should be if there was value in the device with all the Power activity going on with all the related to audio systems. Do see a lot of power conditioners obviously. And based upon response to this thread it would seem many do not know what the before and after impact is.
If it does have a meaningful impact on the system I would be interested but there’s limited support to justify getting one.
Ever since the first grade I've been fascinated by clean power and how it impacts my audio system. During recess I would escape to a nearby audio shop to see the latest Power conditioners and regenerators.
I'll add that since I have a scope to measure the quality of the incoming power, I check it occasionally, and it doesn't vary much. Rignt now it is 3.0% distortion (that is a measure of the departure of the incoming sine wave to a perfect 60 Hz sine wave). It may vary as low as 2 and as high as 4. but those are all more than an order of magnitude greater than the .1% output.
This holds true late at night, weekends, and holidays. It isn't better late at night. It isn't better on sunday morning. So those who think their rig sounds better late at night because power is better need to find another theory (alcohol?).
A regenerator is built around the inverter. It is very easy to rectify the incoming. all the cost of a regenerator is in the audio quality inverter to get the .1% distortion.
I challenge people who think going to costco (or Tesla) and getting a battery system will give them cleaner power when they have no specs on the inverter. most equipment around the house could care less what the sine wave looks like. Even consumer electronics don't care. So there is no real reason to put an expensive inverter in these things. I remember then my dad bought an inverter that ran off the truck battery to provide 110 to run saws and equipment on the farm. It literally put out a square wave.
Good information about this thing called an oscilloscope.
So I guess it gets down to if you're amplifier doesn't do a good job with the incoming power then one of these things makes sense. Of course I wonder how how much the sine wave changes via oscilloscope measurement going through a quality power conditioner.
You made a decision to go with A Power regenerator because you're incoming power is deserving of attention Beyond what a conditioner could do.
@emergingsoulNo, I made a decision to go with a regenerator because I think power conditioners are mostly useless and can indeed do more harm that good by limiting current.
there are lots of different gizmos called "conditioners". In general they try to "filter" the noise out of the power coming in and in general, that is pretty much impossible. they can do things like filter out high frequencies, and this may help a little, but to reconstitute the 60 Hz signal, you can’t do that with a filter.
And like I said, many of them limit current and that is really bad with an amp. That is the source of the frequently encountered opinion that "the amp should always be plugged directly into the wall". Indeed, it is better to plug directly into the wall than any device that limits current. My first priority in picking a regenerator was to make sure it did not limit current.
Ever since the first grade I've been fascinated by clean power and how it impacts my audio system. During recess I would escape to a nearby audio shop to see the latest Power conditioners and regenerators.
Ever since the first grade I've been fascinated by clean power and how it impacts my audio system. During recess I would escape to a nearby audio shop to see the latest Power conditioners and regenerators.
@emergingsoul, I feel compelled to ask what your system was made up of back when you were six years old and in the first grade?
Ever since the first grade I’ve been fascinated by clean power and how it impacts my audio system. During recess I would escape to a nearby audio shop to see the latest Power conditioners and regenerators.
@emergingsoul , I feel compelled to ask what your system was made up of back when you were six years old and in the first grade?
Only thing I can come up with to explain the fascination with clean power in first grade is he attended first grade when he was well into his adulthood.
Only thing I can come up with to explain the fascination with clean power in first grade is he attended first grade when he was well into his adulthood.
Or maybe an episode of Young Sheldon?
I am a bit surprised that the nearby audio shop would keep the latest power conditioners and regenerators in stock. I wouldn't have thought that power conditioning would have been much of a thing back in those days.
I have two Triode Isolation Transformers. I use one for my analog components, the other for my digital components.
IMy Trifield EMI Meter measured EMI over 700 mVp.p on every circuit in my house. Measuring power out at each Triode Isolation Transformer showed a major reduction in EMI to about 10 mVp.p. That was really impressive.
I bought both my Triodes used from an audiophile friend for only $150.00 apiece. I did buy some expensive Shunyata power conditioner which I soon returned because it didn’t come close to equalling what the Triodes measured.
It seems I do have very dirty electricity. My first attempt to address the problem was to install the recommended dedicated line. But first we rigged up a test dedicated line. There was no reduction in noise. We measured the power where it enters the house and it was dirty to the same measurements we recorded inside the house on every circuit. It seemed obvious the noise was originating outside my residence, I don’t know where the noise is coming from. I live in what looks like a rural town of only about 4000 houses I and the only businesses are a grocer, and a hardware store nearby and a couple of miles down the road is a tiny business area consisting of a restaurant, a vet and not much more. I’m a little suspicious it might be coming from my nearest neighbor, the local fire station, but that’s just a wild guess.
It seems I do have very dirty electricity. My first attempt to address the problem was to install the recommended dedicated line. But first we rigged up a test dedicated line. There was no reduction in noise.
Yes, this exactly. I don't know why people are enamored with plugging their amps directly into the wall and into a dedicated line, as if that solves anything.
The only thing you get is a reduction in noise from other components on the same line, but not a complete elimination of both household and outside noises.
In addition, the dedicated line is only relatively more voltage stable. Relatively meaning if you plug a vacuum into the same circuit you'll get a bigger sag than if you plug it somewhere else, but at the end of the day you are still subject to seasonal and hour to hour variations due to HVAC, ovens, hair dryers, etc., and of course surges.
For what it’s worth, there IS a middle ground between nothing and a power regenerator and that’s a voltage regulator.
The Furman conditioners such as this one with AR offers tight voltage output with high current, and don’t generate any Class D noise on the output. The SMP offers both noise filtering that starts around 3 kHz (really good) plus best in class surge protection.
AR will keep your line from sagging under load as well as insulate your system from seasonal/daily variations in voltage while SMP/EVS will keep your system safe.
I live in an old part of the core of a large city, and my power often has 5 or 6% THD, and sometimes as high as 8%. Dirty power indeed!
I tried a PS Audio PP12 in my audio system and heard an instant benefit - darker backgrounds, improved dynamics, musicality, and clarity - a if a veil was lifted between the music and listener. My only complaint was transformer hum heard when you were close to the PS Audio PP12.
As part of a package purchase of Accuphase components last year, I acquired an Accuphase PS-530 power supply which seems to be similar in concept to the PS Audio power supplies except that it is more massive and built to a much higher standard with a large and totally silent toroidal transformer. It sounds even better than the PS Audio unit - more clarity, more musical, even blacker backgrounds - you hear the hall acoustics and ambiance more clearly.
Accuphase also makes a more massive PS-1250 power supply with impressive output - it can handle two A-300 monoblocks plugged into it. I wonder how this would compare to other units out there?
erik_squires
... the dedicated line is only relatively more voltage stable. Relatively meaning if you plug a vacuum into the same circuit you'll get a bigger sag than if you plug it somewhere else ...
A dedicated line is usually substantially more voltage stable. You're not going to plug a vacuum into it because it's a dedicated line. That's the whole point.
A dedicated line is usually substantially more voltage stable. You're not going to plug a vacuum into it because it's a dedicated line. That's the whole point.
And how often do you do that while listening? :D
Yes, it's more stable, that doesn't necessarily make it stable. I used to spend all my time listening and watching the voltage meter. Seasonal variations, plus major appliances in the home kicking on and off still make it more variable than using a voltage regulator.
Anyone else who is curious should get a Kill-A-Watt meter or some other constantly running voltage meter to see how well or poorly things in their home are. Be grateful if you find your home AC is stable all year long.
... it's more stable, that doesn't necessarily make it stable ... Seasonal variations, plus major appliances in the home kicking on and off still make it more variable than using a voltage regulator.
As with many audiophiles, I take a "source first" approach. Using a proper dedicated line can essentially eliminate the voltage drop typical of a daisy-changed convenience outlet. Power conditioning, including voltage regulation, can then further improve the AC. It's not an either/or choice.
Any thoughts on the Synergistic Research Powercell? I’m currently using the new Powercell 8SX. SR say they regenerate the power signal using powercells, and then adjust the signal wave using Schumann resonators. Also they connect all the grounds that can then be attached to a ground box. It has no surge protection though, unless it receives a spike over 20amps.
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