6.5 vs 8 vs 10 woofer

oldhvymec,

I was not actually suggesting that you post a video of your system--I was making fun of the notion that one can evaluate the sound from a YT video.  But, I do find the description of your system interesting.  I like the way large systems, with a lot of square inches of driver or horn aperture sound.  They deliver a sense of scale even when they are not being called on to play at a high volume.  Your system, more than almost anything else I've read about, fits the "large" category. 

We should all boycott the speaker manufacturers and INSIST they ONLY use 6 1/2 and 8 inch woofers from now on.   How dare they use 10 inch and bigger🤣

Downsizing to smaller living spaces pretty much dictates what will work best in a giving listening space.

One of the reasons headphones have become so popular. Notice I said "one" of the reasons. 

Mozartfan,  I would like to know what Mozart tracks you are using as your critical listening criteria or any tracks for that matter.  Just wondering how you are arriving at this enlightened conclusion.  

This sounds to me to me like "No I couldn't buy/drive that car because it's too fast."  

As for me, I believe that building a system with lots of headroom is the way to go.  Hence, my tri-amped ARC powered monsters. Don't need to run wide open, but I do come close on occasion!

Regards,
barts

@mozartfan  
I suggest that you study a bit about speaker design.  There is a lot more than spec's, but they do tell a basic story.  Look at the spec's on drivers that you are comparing.  
First Mass MMS... The amount of cone & suspension weight will definitely affect the sensitivity as well as how low a driver will play.  
Take a 95 db woofer that goes down to 50 hz add enough mass and you may get this thing to go down to 40 hz.  The problem is, when you add mass, the motor will have a tougher time pushing the mass and sensitivity will drop, in this case, it could be 5 or 6 db.  
Second Xmax.  In the case above, if the cone does not have enough excursion limit, it would easily bottom as mass is added.  Xmax is important. 
Third FS.  This tells you the resonant frequency that a driver plays on its own without a baffle.  It will also give you an idea of how low a drive may be able to go (depending on box)
Fourth QTS.  This tells you what type of box the driver is best suited for and how that driver will play bass depending on the type of box.  
Fifth VAS.  When tied into conjunction with everything else above, this will tell us the rest of the story of how low and how loud a driver will play as well as how flat its response is in a given box. 
In general (not cast in stone)  The larger a woofer is,  the lower the FS is and the higher the sensitivity can be.  
Still,  I have actually had an 8 inch woofer that we modified heavily, but in the end, this driver would play an F3 of 22 hz,  BUT, it ended up being 83db sensitivity and didn't have enough XMAX to drive it very hard.  
I am listening to right now, a 15 that is 95db sensitivity, but only goes down to 38hz.... Try to research the amount of air a 15 moves vs a 6 inch, even though both may go down to 40hz, what does driver size mean? Everything is a trade off, if I didn't add so much mass to the 8 inch,  it still would have gotten down to 32hz and gave me more like 86db sensitivity.  Look at these spec's,  do some research, get a basic understanding and you'll be able to make a better choice on drivers based upon your needs

Here's a kit for you to build.
https://www.madisoundspeakerstore.com/2-way-speaker-kits/seas-a26-10-2-way-kit-pair-based-on-the-classic-a25/

timlub,

That is a pretty nice and concise description of Thiele-Small parameters.  Of course design and implementation are vastly complex matters even when one stays within the proscription of these parameters.  

@larryi    Oh Larry, you are absolutely 100% correct. I was trying to at least give him guidance on where to look for a basic understanding. He would never design anything from that brief description, but it is a start. Recently, I've been playing with how frequency response changes with impedance compensation. Where in the world does that fit in this discussion or how do you get there..... Just 1 step at a time.  I was trying to give him the first step.  

Too many permutations here to have a valid discussion. For example, a bi-amped system with electronic XOs allows for a dedicated amp to control the bass driver and not need as much passive XO at the speaker level. 
Then there is amp design, driver quality, damping factor and slew rates, etc. 

Douglas what would you buy?  Are you a dealer. I think this discussion makes sense because a lot of us are confused on this subject.

I thought he was basically asking a question rather than trying to tell us what is best.

I think we would like to hear what you have to say.  This is a question many of us have.  This also depends on whether you are using a pair of subs to fill in the lower frequencies.

I am listening to right now, a 15 that is 95db sensitivity, but only goes down to 38hz

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I would have figured a  15 goes BELOW 20hz.. Ok so the inner core also makes a  huge dif on how low a  8 inch will go.

Look Vox/USA just reached out, So Vox is back on the table.
And thinking things over,,although I figured a 10 will go into the low 30hz's, and the 8 low 40's, might not hold water. 
The 10 perhaps will go lower, however I've been living with dual 6/5's and have missed the lower bass for now 20 years, A 8 super high 98 sens will deliver the clean tight low, say maybe low30's, and thats allright with me. The Vox 8 looks to be ~~meticulously  hand crafted~~ and this may result in a  finer resolution of 100hz-say 1500 hz;s where most of my classical music falls. 
So it looks like the Vox 8 will be the next step in this FR/High sens journey, which is all completely new to me.
Just got word from the Vox /USA dealer, he has employed all sorts of PP tubes with Vox and has nothing to complain about.
So ~~Ideally SET  ~The Perfect Match~~, Due to finances (Defy upgrades well over $1k)  SET is off the table.
Now I have to go ck my topic over on amps, see if anyone has a few ideas how i can tweak,  the Defy to better match a  high sens speaker.
See you guys over there.

larry5729, I am a reviewer for Dagogo.com, online magazine for 14 years. If you wish to see the speakers I have written up over that period, you can click on the "Staff" tab and look at my articles. BTW, "staff" is a bit of a misnomer, as I have not been paid to write. I push myself to do deep, involved articles for the love of the hobby, art, and personal advantage in development of methods that will allow me to achieve better systems.

With that background, I have used all manner of speakers in regards to bass; concentric/full range (i.e. Tannoy Glenair), horn hybrid (i.e. PureAudioProject Trio15 Horn1; disclaimer, I am currently reviewing another PAP speaker), dynamic (i.e. the Salk Sound SS 9.5 Speaker review just published), hybrid dynamic (i.e. a favorite, the Vapor Audio Nimbus White), dynamic hybrid array (Legacy Audio Whisper DSW Clarity Edition), Magnetic Planar (owned Maggie 1.6 QR, and reviewed hybrid magnetic planar Eminent Tech LFT-8A/B), ESL hybrid (own King Sound Guitar speaker, full range ESL (Sound Lab Ultimate 545), ESL array (Kingsound King I and III reviewed, and I own the King III), Open Baffle (Tri-Art-Art Audio B Series 5 Open), Transmission Line (Van L Speakerworks Silhouette), Dynamic hybrid with integral subwoofer (Legacy Audio V and Valor Speaker Systems), various bookshelf speakers too numerous owned or reviewed to mention; the Lenehan ML1 Reference was delightful), Quasi-D’Appolito (Daedalus Audio Ulysses), Line Source (Raven Design Studio Ebb), Omnidirectional (King Sound King Tower, and Ohm Acoustics Walsh Model F. I think the list covers most genres of bass technology that I have heard in my room.

I have used from a single 5-6" woofer, to sets from two to twelve 15" woofers. I have used many bookshelf speakers over 30 years with and without active subs. I also have used many towers with active subs, and some, like the Daedalus, with matching passive subs.

Every one is distinct and has unique characteristics. So, I find it horridly opinionated for an individual who is gleaning info from YT to be declarative in attempting to tell the community which bass genre/technology is best.

My favorites? None, if not set up well. Several, if set up well.
Over the years I am moving away from standard dynamic speaker towers. I am moving increasingly toward Open Baffle and Dipole (with or without subs). I can hardly stand the sound of a bass driver 8" or under; too earnest, too much popping of the driver when pushed. They just can’t handle LF and higher levels (Zero interest in arguing with people about this).

If you have poor amplification, you suck the life/quality out of the bass. If you have poorer cables, ditto. It’s a spectrum of performance, but also a spectrum of genres of bass technology - none of them definitively the best. YMMV

My favorites? None, if not set up well. Several, if set up well.

I am not always in the same opinion than you but this post speak well and better than my own experience about speakers...

Thanks...

Thank you, mahgister!

No replacement for displacement.

Douglas_schroeder

Doug; 

The woofer response was “ ouch” 
lol
bigger the better 

jeffy 

I have efficient speakers, 100-104dB.  Not sure.  It can become an issue if, between amplifier and preamplifier, you have too much gain. 

There has been a small revival in higher efficiency speakers and lower-powered amps, but, it remains a boutique community

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Guess what?
I just brought both low and high db efficiency together. 
~~How is that even remotely possible??~~ 
You ask.
Well I got to thinkin. 
I have so much cash invested in the Thors,,pondering while listening to the Single 8 wide band 94db, + Vifa tweet,,and started making some possibilites in my mind,,what if,,hummm as i stared at the Thors collecting dust in the corner,,what if,,,so I disconnected the Vifa from 1 pair of speaker cabels,,,,,and yep hooked up only the dual 6.5 bass section of the Thors, + the other speaker cabel going to the FR8. 
BINGO!
Now i am a  very  happer camper.
Thought a  bit more,,and I figured there is yet another FR 6.5 m that will outperform the FR8.
Not going to make a  new face panel on the Thors to add the FR 6.5, instead wlll just do what i am doing right now, the 12x12x12 cabinet housing the FR8,  sits right next to Thors, and sounds absoluetly seamless and just drop dead gorgeous.
Dual 6.5's blow any 8,10,12 single bass away at least in the 50hz-100hz. 
I'm not so sure the Excel 6.5 goes below 50hz,..lets ck...be right back....
says 40hz, but i bet its more like 50hz at 80db. 
Still thats a  very nice full 50hz  fora  cello section, timpini, or jazz drum set. 

So now i can salvage some of the Seas Thor,,which I was not prepared to toss away  for a  few $'s on ebay. + The huge Mundorf 8.2 silver gold cap on the W18 xover. + a massive Gertz copper foil coil.
And btw, there is no dome, midarange in the world that will voice mids likea  FR, none, The Millenial Excel tweet is absolute trash, garbage vs a FR 6.5 in the mids. 

So finally its all comming together.
WE just had to use our imaginative powers.
If we all work together as a team, we can bring our systems up to The New 21st C High Fidelity.
6.5 will order when i get some paypal debt down. The mods in my system past year has run into the $$$$$.
madea  few mistakes like Vishay Zfoil Resistors , cost me $550 + $150 labor = $700, Vishay zfoils are for the Hubble Space tele and other  orbital satellites. Not for amplifiers as some might recommend. 
Takman Metal Rey's are the finest. 

I have efficient speakers, 100-104dB. Not sure. It can become an issue if, between amplifier and preamplifier, you have too much gain.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


wow 100+ db eff. Thats super sens. 
My 8 Fr is like 94 the Thor 6.5 duals are 87db, 
Both have paired just beautifully.
The FR 8 has limpy bass, but super rich mids, some highs. 
The dual Seas Excel 6.5's have nice solid bass, with the massive Mundorf 8.2 Gold Silver Oil cap in the xover.
I now have the very best of both worlds, 
The Excel W18 is the worlds finest midwoofer in production.
And a FR 8 voices the most gorgeous rich, full mids and some high roll off.
I am hearing things in the percussion upper fq's,  which i have  faintly heard with the Millenium tweeter.
Try puttinga  large orchestra through a  1 inch dome mid-tweet,,,You can't. 
The 8 FR has this capacity to voicea  large orchestra, with ease and richness. 

Richard is right, dome tweeters are trash/garbage. 

If you skip all ported options, you will probably notice that you like a larger driver. Have you listened to a dipole 15' or a sealed 15'?
My Barefoot monitors for instance uses 2*10' and yes, these are monitors.

Okay here’s may take, don’t be mean. I agree that an 8” driver is just about ideal for most music, vocals and instruments. But you do need a couple subwoofers to fill out the bottom end. I have found single full range coaxial drivers sound best to me. Multiple drivers tend to fracture the sound and you lose clarity of vocals and instruments if they are not aligned vertically AND horizontally . This is true if you are NOT trying to achieve concert volume levels! I have yet to hear a multiple driver system that does not have aligned point source drivers, match the clarity in the critical listening frequency range of say 70 Hz. to 5 kHz. I personally like Altec 601’s for the clarity and efficiency, they are what I want to afford. That being said, I would love to hear some Voxativ. You ABSOLUTELY need analog electronic crossovers and multiple amplifiers because passive crossovers I've heard sound bad. Started making my own electronic crossovers 45 years ago. So, Altec 601’s for the critical range, subwoofers below 45 Hz. and JBL 2405’s without the horns pointing straight up for highs above 8 kHz. with ANALOG ELECTRONIC crossovers and 3 stereo amplifiers. My ears have told me over the years that more is not better, just louder.

I am listening to right now, a 15 that is 95db sensitivity, but only goes down to 38hz

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I would have figured a 15 goes BELOW 20hz.. Ok so the inner core also makes a huge dif on how low a 8 inch will go.

Yeah, because 95db is an extremely high efficiency 15" woofer and the problem here is that high efficiency woofers have to be engineered different and they do not have a "free air resonance" frequency low enough to do bass down at the 20hz point.  The woofers that do have a low enough resonance will need to be heavier in weight with a stiffer spider and therefore will not have as high of efficiency.  It's all a design compromise and we are dealing with physics here (no speaker manufacturer can give you everything on a silver platter with just one driver).  $$$ doesn't necessarily mean "best" or "better".

You can't expect all woofers to be your perfect dream.  Everything is a compromise. 

I've had discussions with mozatfan in the past where I suggested Markaudio drivers (he was on a full range driver kick), but he apparently poo-poo'd these drivers because they were British and he thinks British speakers suck.  At that point, I lost interest in discussion with him.

Full range drivers are always a complete compromise anyways where you sacrifice some aspect of the sound/characteristics to get what you want.  It is actually incredibly difficult to engineer and manufacture a full range driver that really works well throughout the entire frequency range.

He also seems to try to do "best speaker" arguments by selecting drivers he thinks will prove his point.  I do agree with others here, I think we have another Kenjit.

6.5 vs 8 vs 10 woofer ?
. . . uh, mine aren't round.

I've got 4 pairs of full range speakers with dual 7"s, 10", 12" and 15" woofers.  Of these, the 15" Tannoys have the LEAST amount of bass. The ported 12's go the lowest, but the 10's are in a sealed cab, so they roll off more gently.  The dual 7's are lightning quick, but don't have the 'gravitas' and punch of the larger woofers.  BUT, since the OP has declared that 8" is the ideal size, I guess I will just dump all these great speakers and find some with 8-inchers.   

@douglas_schroeder --

My favorites? None, if not set up well. Several, if set up well.
Over the years I am moving away from standard dynamic speaker towers. I am moving increasingly toward Open Baffle and Dipole (with or without subs). I can hardly stand the sound of a bass driver 8" or under; too earnest, too much popping of the driver when pushed. They just can’t handle LF and higher levels (Zero interest in arguing with people about this).

If you have poor amplification, you suck the life/quality out of the bass. If you have poorer cables, ditto. It’s a spectrum of performance, but also a spectrum of genres of bass technology - none of them definitively the best. YMMV

To me passive cross-overs, by and large, have a thickening and dulling effect on the bass (and the remainder of the spectrum), so active configuration is one step towards better performance here.

Going on from here I have no qualms stating that high efficiency 15" drivers are the best compromise up through the lower midrange, not least relieved of low bass reproduction when high-passed actively. Arguably the very best scenario in the power region - again, to my mind - is loading a proper 15" HE driver in a simple-fold horn (i.e.: not all too many folds), actively; this way the bass to lower mids will have an effortless "twang," smoothness, texture and dynamics that's simply unparalleled by any other bass principle that I know of. A "proper" 15" HE driver for this type of horn loading is rare though these days, if they're made at all other than by boutique, small scale manufacturers. Horn loading this way lends you ~105dB sensitivity, so the (15") bass driver cone will barely move at all, even at very high SPL's - not least when high-passed down low - and that's exactly what you want to achieve: less cone movement with high efficiency and lots of displacement area, not to mention via good air coupling. The only midrange/HF solution that can match such a bass horn is another, preferably large horn and compression driver combo, so there you have it; that's my preference, though it's not to say I can't enjoy a range of other well set up speaker principles.

However, it still goes to show that the typical love for smaller diameter, lower efficiency and direct radiating drivers comes down to convenience and what's most widely available; not a true choice per se. Who have heard a big, folded bass horn loaded with a 15" HE driver in their home - not to mention even bigger horn subs? Close to none, and so the predominant bias away from this segment of speakers is founded in conjecture or that it simply doesn't exist, and not actual experience. Added of course to the mere thought of having such behemoths placed in a home environment, that will no doubt scare most away. That, at least, I'm sympathetic to, though the lack of all-out and to hell with practicalities and WAF is still to be lamented. 

@Mozartfan
I was with you in the wideband hi-eff thread, but this 10" theory makes little sense. @auxinput gave you very important information. he's right. even a 15" hi-eff are limited in low bass due to the hi-eff design choice in building a hi-eff woofer. so a 95db 15" woofer need a BIG cab to make low bass: like 200L or more.

- no 10" wideband will reach 20khz smoothly. the rising response will be impossible to deal without compensations circuit to smooth that rising response

- a 10 inch wideband still need a light cone and relatively weak magnet= compromising low bass, and Ive heard a couple like the famous 10" vintage philips. they just dont do low bass

if you want a wideband and bass, look at FAST designs (fullrange-assisted-system-desing) at diyaudio. whole following there.

If you want wideband sound and real bass, you need subs. If you dont listen loud, get a 5, 6 " voxativ in a small sealed enclosure and try to make the wideband roll off naturally around 100hz, then integrate dual REL subs

hope this helps

PS: if you want hi-eff and real bass, go the classic way: hi-eff 15" woofer with a 6.5" hi eff mid and hi-eff 1.5" tweeter (seas t35 are 96 db) and go for a 1st order xo.
I’m building right now such a speaker with a Eminence omega pro 15", audax 170mo mid and hivi planar tweeter, 1st order series xo in a 200L cab. This system will be about 96 db efficient.

My wife say after having 6” and the 8” she like my 10” best of all. 

8" is a good. Mid-bass is a compromise so to minimize Doppler on the low end I needed 6 on each side, sealed box. Kind of blew the budget.

Then XO @ 58 Hz to 15" corner horns which is all right to 25 Hz for most music.

Then XO to the sub-sub 14’ T-line 4x15". Three of those. Flat to 4Hz. Could not measure dB. Had to estimate via Richter. Also doubles as a hair dryer. 

Couldn’t find the Hartley at the time of the build.

Full range drivers are always a complete compromise anyways where you sacrifice some aspect of the sound/characteristics to get what you want. It is actually incredibly difficult to engineer and manufacture a full range driver that really works well throughout the entire frequency range.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


Yeah I'm now firguring this  weakness of a  FR 8. Its super in the midrange,
But by itself, it does not have enough width and depth = soundstage was a  bit ~flat~~
so i pondered what can i do in the meantime while i save up some audio buget cash for the Vox 8...hummm, well lets see, I have the Thors collecting dust,,,thinking kind of liked something about the thors,,but not sure what the issue was that made me slam the Thors,,,so i figured since i have a  nice rich mids/some upper highs,,in the 8 FR,,thought i might as well disconnect the Millenium tweet ad run the other speaker cable to the Thors. 
BINGO, Soundstage returned very nicely. 
Just this moning wanted to ck what the dual W18's sounded all  alone on one channel and the other with the FR8,,,,sure enough the Excel W18 magnesius 87 db 6.5's were a  smash hit.
The lowes only go to 40hz. But what is so unique about this EXCEL W18 is the fq's between say 100-2000.
Here is where this driver really shines.
This super critcal range is voiced with no stress, no faatigue, just pure music.
I could not live without this W18 Excel. It simply must be in my system/ 
Now i note the Vox 8 is really FULL range,  that driver rocks, I know after countless YT vid listening sessions. 
How will the Vox8 intergrate with the dual W18's, Remains to be seen/= heard.

If the Vox seems a bit flat, I have no choice but to interfrate the dual W18's.
Will not mploya  compression horn tweet  either Davidlouis or 18 Sound. 
The Vox 8 has stunning highs. 
So taht saves me $400/DavidLouis or $650/18 Sound. 

Its good i did not dump the Thors for asking $800,  that would have been a gigantic mistake.
The new xovers, the cabinets, the dual W18's for $800?? I must  have lost my mind.
, , The tweeters will be dumped on Ebay, brand new for some change/ going auction style.
As per Richard Gray, **I hate dome tweets*. 
The dual W18's, really voice gorgeous in the upper bass, low mids. 
 Those W18's I could not live w/o.
The LII fast 8 FR is worth only what you pay for it.
The bass is a  bit thin and  mids  a bit too warm = muddy.  All my system is geared to be clear/ clean,  that is i attempt to eliminate all *warm*. 

 The LII Fast 8  will  have to do til I get the Vox8. 

hi-eff 1.5" tweeter (seas t35 are 96 db)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
When i order a new pair of Millenium, instead the far superior dome tweet is this Exotic T35 you mentioned.
Its 94db eff.
No doubt would have blown away the Millenium and thus , may have been completely satisfied and not looked any further into going FR.
But as it is, FR is on my agenda.
The T35's voice coil is only 1.3 inch.
Thats just too small to voice large full orchestra.
Just can not  deliver the wide sound stage that i am looking for.
But indeed, the T35 Exotic might just be the exception to Richard's opinion  about the weakness of all dome tweets. 
But then the T35 is going up against the new compression horn tweets with 100++ sens. 
I'm done with midrange tweets (1500-20k) 
The new FR voices midrange with wider/deeper sound stage. A fullness  with fidelity, purity. Accuracy.
Dome tweets squeeze the complex passages thougha  minisclue 1-1.5 inch exit chamber.  = Nice try, no cigar. 

I was with you in the wideband hi-eff thread, but this 10" theory makes little sense.



~~~~~~~~~~~~
Not sure what topic i posted, that i am now of the opinion, dual 6.5's  superior toa  single 8 or 10.
The Seas Excel W18 are so well behaved in 40hz- 1500hz. that  really makes this a  full rich voicing in this critical register. 
On heavy complex  passages of 50hz/lower as in some Schnittke symphonies when all hell breaks lose, the W18's do get a  bit befuddled. 8 or 10 is better in this short passages.
But its not very often this attack of  50hz/lower makes its appearance in such an onslaught violence.
The W18 are not cheap, But as with anything in speakers, you get what you pay for. If you want the best gotta pay.
The newest Excel line is the Graphene, add  another 25%. Beasts!
So yeah dual Excel W18;'s in my opinion delivers the fullest bass of any design in the 40+ hz- say through  2000.  vs a   single bass woofer, 
Conside, how many 20-40 hz's are in your music? 
Well jazz, maybe,,,, but orchestra, not enough in that range to be noticed that its missing. 
The Excel W18's exhibit a   purity in the lower mid's  which is just laid-back, , natural, zero distortion/fatigue.
They are 87db, so only used  as a  ~filler~, adding  a ~subtle~wider/deeper soundstage in those fq's = 40hz-2000hz. when joined with a  FR. Preferably a  6.5 FR.
 But since Vox offers the 6 inch FR same price as 8, I'll opt for the 8. 

OK to recap,
A single 6.5 FR will not  offer ~slam~ in the 40hz-60hz. You will need some bass configure. 
A single 8 FR may offer some deeper bass in the 30hz-50hz, but not ~deep/rick/thick~ for some  some critical recordings. 
Bottom line: Dual 6.5's MM (skip the tweet) is the ideal bass configure for backing up a  single FR 6.5 or 8. 
A good quality FR does not require adding a  compression tweet. 
I'm kind of  joining up ~best of both worlds~ some depth in  the 40-60hz_ from the dual 6.5 low eff 87 db midbass, and then the critcal midrange of 100hz-5k with the high eff  FR. 
This configure may not work with the Vox, can't say til i acutally set it up. 
But with a  lower budget priced FR8  requires adding some sort of bass configure.

@mozartfan  I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but you are clueless. 
You can certainly find An example of each of the above, but making blanket statements is naive. 

Such as ~all dome tweeters~ suffer from any number of weakness.??
The Millenium Tweeter is one of if not the best dome tweeter in production. Yet i've found its nothing vs a  high quality FR driver in the same fq's. 
Its ridiculous listening to a  tiny 1.3 inch dome tweeter trying to gather up a  full range orchestra in full power.
Its a joke.


Perhaps  a opinionated bias on my part,  but true. Dome tweeters are for jazz only. Light jazz at best. 

I agree with  with Larryi. As a speaker builder I respect his angle on design, implementation as in the right woofer for cabinet volume and other factors as in component selection. Cross over selection. Internal cabling, internal damping materials.  There are advantages in smaller drivers, and larger ones. My first were 14" Alinco Aquadag woofer with 5" mid ,2" tweeter.  The woofer had been in a larger room and was great .  I would not want them in a small room.  Now I live in a smaller space and the less efficient 8" towers I built are better suited for that room size. The bass actually goes lower on the 8" towers but in a large room would not have the same impact as compaired where they now sit.   Placing a pair of Klipshorns in a small room would be a disaster.  Matching components to the living space is very important.

@mozartfan,

" Its ridiculous listening to a tiny 1.3 inch dome tweeter trying to gather up a full range orchestra in full power."

tweeters reproduce harmonics mostly and are used over 2khz. listen to your music, turn a EQ on and highpass your orchestra at 2khz. not much energy over 2khz.

no wideband will be as even in the treble as any tweeter. and very few wideband, if any, of the zie your looking at (6 or 8") will reproduce "air" in a even pattern. Most wideband still need a tweeter for the last octave (10khz to 20khz)

its quite ridiculous to think that a wideband is suited to reproduce a orchestra at full power

Enjoy the journey, but everything is a compromise and many ways to get to satisfaction in this hobby

" Dual 6.5’s MM (skip the tweet) is the ideal bass configure for backing up a single FR 6.5 or 8."
why not dual 15", or dual 10’s or dual 8’s.

you clearly are starting to make stuff up as you go on.

I am all about the results....its' about the performance isn't it?

Naturally aspirated inline 6, V-8 or V12?  I don't really care if it provides good performance and throttle response :)

 Its ridiculous listening to a tiny 1.3 inch dome tweeter trying to gather up a full range orchestra in full power." 

 You are right it is,  that's why we use another driver below it and a crossover.  

tweeters reproduce harmonics mostly and are used over 2khz. listen to your music, turn a EQ on and highpass your orchestra at 2khz. not much energy over 2khz.

Ok , so there is no argument, you only listen to music up to 2000 hz, since anything over 2k is irrelevant because it is only harmonics. 

@ mozartfan   I really do hope that you look over the information that I posted about understanding speaker specs and what they mean when it comes to understanding a speaker.  One thing that I would say that I don't see regarded much on domes is Xmax.  1.3 inch domes out there currently have an xmax of .1mm to 3.0mm.  This makes a tremendous difference in how a dome translates music.  There is a tweeter fairly unknow that I truly love.  I posted it on a thread called what are your favorite tweeters.    If you'd like to pm me, I'll do my best to answer your questions and offer a better understanding of why some of your idea's are actually quite good, but others show a very poor understanding of how all of this works.   Good Luck.  Tim