One thing is sure- you won't have any troubles getting a set of ZUs to rock. Totems on the other hand- all the ones I have heard have needed a lot of power to get going, but once they did have that power, they did quite well. Overall though the ZUs will have a greater dynamic range. |
Whew! Finally finished reading all 11 pages of this thread. Took 4 days!
Jslate, your preference for the Superfly's over the sttaf's and Model-1's, could you elaborate? Before I started researching Superfly's, these two Totems were in high contention for me. Could you give me a comparison on how they differ? And why you prefer them? Or anyone else experienced with Totems that now have Superfly's (Rockn, did you get yours yet)? I have heard the Model 1 and was very impressed with them many years ago, but would prefer a lower bass extension, and a speaker that would perform well at my late night, low-level listening levels when the rest of the fam is asleep, and they need to rock once in awhile. My music consists of mainly rock/pop/adult contemporary. |
How much do the superfly weigh? I'm pretty sure my box can power them real good. Just need to find a carry harness and save for some ic's and i might be shelling out the cash. |
The loading on the bottom of the speaker is critical IME. If incorrect, you simply are not getting all the bass the speaker has. |
Can slide two CDs under the speakers. Definitely not too low. As stated previously, too high if anything. I thought Phil Cobra had something to say about this. Also, as said previously, I had the bass and then it went. Nothing changed beyond temperature. |
If the SF is like the Omen, the manual says as long as you can slide a standard CD case between the speaker and the floor you're fine.
If you're using the carpet spikes I believe the gap will be greater than 1 case, but the way I interpret the instructions that is OK. If you use the bare floor studs and not the carpet spikes you can get the gap lower than 1 CD case (on bare floor) up to more than 2 cases.
FWIW - I found that gap to be a pretty big adjustment knob. I have my Omens on boards with the carpet spikes. |
If I am not mistaken the requirements for floor to speaker gap with the Superfly is different from that of the druid as the pyramid shaped cartridge and finger slots at the bottom of the cabinet performs the bass tuning . Do not have manual with me , but I believe the only requirement re the cabinet to floor gap is that it allows proper function of the griewe loading system. Is it possible that you have lowered the cabinet too close to the floor interfering with the bass loading system ? |
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"Incidentally, to save me reading 11 pages of this (which I have done previously thanks) how do you get the gap to just above the width of a cd?"
You do mean the width of a standard CD case, right? |
Thanks Phil,
I'm using cd so fewer issues there but you are right re: temperatures. Mine shipped Utah to UK in January and they were cold. From cold they did the Druid thing of giving you the sense of pushing air on horns, and drums were on their way to Definition levels but it took about a week before I began to think "Wow!".
Decorators went Wednesday so we've been on repeat since then and I've had the heating at ambient leveles all day this weekend. I reckon that since mid-January I've put 200 hours on during the day when I've been at work and maybe another 40 or 50 on top. It was going so well but this us a horrid shock. Like having a large transistor radio. There is bass there but even on say Night Nurse by Gregory Isaacs it is taut and recessed rather than taut, deep and powerful. I'm giving it until midweek before I panic.
Incidentally, to save me reading 11 pages of this (which I have done previously thanks) how do you get the gap to just above the width of a cd? I have no spike thread at that point. Mine are set by my dealer at just over the depth of two as there is then thread. Before anyone suggests this has an impact on bass and could explain what's happened I should say I've had four weeks of increasingly heavenly bass so it seems unlikely. It may be contributing to my lack of upper mids but the detriment to bass seemed minimal. Until Tuesday it was the best bass I've ever had.
Mike |
It's not my experience that Zu break-in is anything other than progressive and uni-directional. That is, it's a one-way street with no backtracking wih the singular exception of significant thermal changes.
Zu itself has had the experience of doing 200-400 hours of intense factory break-in only to ship speakers from Utah in the winter months and have them arrive sounding stiff and not broken in. Sean has contended in the past that break-in of the internal cabling (especially the dielectrics) is actually more of a factor than limbering of the driver, but cold exposure can make the driver break-in paramount. I'm in Southern California, so I probably don't have the same range of temperature swings as you, even if I left my windows and doors wide open for weeks. If nothing else changed, I have to guess this is your issue, and it will be temporary. Also, if you are using vinyl, the same thermal factors can truncate bass response of a phono cartridge, too. Assuming nothing has happened to your amplification, it seems a temporary problem associated with an environmental change that a hundred hours of any band using a large Marshall stack can overcome.
Phil |
The missing bit from my previous posts was that I don't think the positioning is an issue for the bass. Prior to this week it was just fabulous. There was a lack of upper mids and that was it.
Mike |
The missing bit from my previous posts was that I don't think the positioning is an issue for the bass. Prior to this week it was just fabulous. There was a lack of upper mids and that was it.
Mike |
Phil,
When I say the decorator arrived I simply mean I was having some of the house painted. He had doors and windows open all day so a big temperature drop. Didn't work in the living room at all but had the door open and did go in for a listen each morning as he's a big music fan and into hi-fi too. Can't believe he's done driver damage for example as presumably a lot more than bass would have gone. He certainly hasn't moved them and I should be clear, there is bass there but it's nowhere near what it was.
Yes Naim is SS but they work incredibly well with Zu and prior to getting Superfly I'd heard Druids, Essence, Presence and Definitions on Naim. Have been talking to Avonessence on this and he reckons burn-in can be quite erratic having had Druids and Essence and he found it especially so on the Druids. He thought the temperature drop may be of some significance. I'm deliberately not moving them until I have plenty of hours on them. Been doing 10 hours a day on medium volume since mid January so they've probably got 200-250 hours on top of the factory hours.
Can't see how it can be the bass loading. Would have to have gone on both speakers at once and as I said it has been accompanied by the loss of cuppy vocals and a gain in detail so it's not like the FRD has gone silent.
Further thoughts?
Mike
Any other thoughts. |
I had dramatic burn-in for weeks and weeks and I thought too for a few days that I had lost my mind! How many hours do you have on them? I would recommend 400 solid hours as a minimum. I would also comment that the positioning is critical for bass especially as well as amplifier matching. I do not know Naim at all other than knowing they have a great reputation, but it is SS correct? The Superflys are designed with tube amplification in mind, unless I am mistaken as sometimes happens.
The Superflys I auditioned where not picky with positioning, the sound stage was out in front, engaging, and for lack of a better term, Intimate. They were paired with a Quad tube amp using KT-66 tubes. |
Can you elaborate about:
".....Then the decorator arrived...." ?
Phil |
Well, I've had mine for approx. 6 weeks. Plenty of bass. No issues like you mention. Wonder if something happened to the Grewe loading?
Would definately call Zu to discuss.
Sorry couldn't be more help |
My 60 days with the Superfly will be up on the 18th of March. Been interesting so far. They're on the back of Naim pre/power and the break in had been slow but steady up until last week. Prior to that they were powerful; lacking a little detail at the very top end; lovely at low volume and the vocals were what I can best describe as distant. They sat very much behind the sound stage and were a little cuppy. Doubtless some of this was because my dealer plonked 'em down; spiked them up and advised to leave well alone to burn in before attempting to position them.
Early decision was that they were keepers without a shadow of a doubt.
Last Sunday/Monday vocals began to come very much on song and detail began to ooze through in large quantities. Then, the decorator arrived!!!
Fairly confident he's not destroyed anything but fair to say that bass power has all but disappeared. This is being attributed to a signIficant drop in temperature. Had some bass back Friday but lacking again today. Have been lacking some upper mids all the way through, possibly as the spikes were set quite high.
So, thought this was the moment to lower the spikes to see if I could re-ignite the burn-in and the bass and maybe up the upper mids. Unfortunately, if I lower the spikes as recommended by Zu there ain't enough thread for the nuts so I've left them be. However, after 5 days I'm beginning to want some actual bass back. Decorator had done by Wednesday so temperature has been normal again since Thursday. Can't believe how much bass I've lost. Unlistenable on occasions. Shrill and horrid.
Anyone else had similar with Zu burn in? I mean it's a quite dramatic loss. There is bass there but it's like a large radio on occasions. |
that sounds like an incredible combo, gopher, congrats! |
I didn't want to speak too soon and announce landing on a setup that was "perfection" for my tastes, but I've given it a few weeks now and the desire to amp roll is done.
For the guys who tuned into my amplifier rolling adventures, I have finally settled on a pair of Shuguang S845 MK monoblocks driven by a Shindo Auriege-L preamplifier.
Shindo/845/Zu is one deeply musical, beautiful combination! |
Superfly's on the way! All because of u guys. Never heard of them until I came across this thread. Dam u guys! |
How does the Presence/Def2 pan out next to the SSF Def.? |
I wonder how these speakers would compare with my Klipsch RF-7? I would be driving them with a Cayin A88t with 16 ohm tap. Anybody compared the sound to klipsch? |
Well, my matte black Soul Superfly arrived on Wednesday. Let them sit for three days until my dealer could get out and solder some spades and set them up. Really did Littld more than set up and listen.
Will report back at a later date but it is already obvious that they are, as I anticipated, keepers.
Mike |
I got mine about 2 weeks ago. Driving it with an Atmasphere S30. Pretty amazing combo after about 30 hours of break in. Great definition and transparency. Even though my current digs don't allow for optimal placement, soundstaging and imaging are outstanding. Leading edge transient information is outstanding. Brass has that bite that you hear when live. Drums and cymbals have that snap and sparkle. Bass definatly goes down to at least the mid 30's in my room with great definition and speed of the leading edge of the bass notes making it very easy to follow bass lines. Music has great pace and drive that draws you into the music and lets you forget about all the hifi stuff. Even my non- audiophile wife said wow.
I don't know everything that's out there but I'm hard pressed to think of a better speaker for $2800.
BTW, my pair is in Ferrari red, purchased at a discount on Zu's Black Friday sale. They are gorgeous. If you can spring for it I highly rec. the high gloss finish of your choice.
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My wife bought a pair at the RMAF. We now have them set up with both a vintage (NOSValves Modified) Scott 299D tube integrated amp and a Peachtree Nova and they are really sounding sweet. Took a bit of time to break in but even out of the box they are extremely dynamic. Complete thumbs up! |
Morganc - The Zus definitely have an 'alive' presence and that's the quality that makes them keepers in my system. As for soundstage, my room is 15'x15' and the speakers are probably not ideally placed for depth. They flank our fireplace and are just a few feet out from the back walls. But I am hearing some depth now as they are breaking in which I didn't before and the soundstage is getting very large. Sometimes it's startling when a vocal comes in(lead or backing, in addition to what is an already very full sound and it's still well defined and placed. So I have zero complaints in that area -- it works for me.
Previously I had a pair of Spendor S5es which I enjoyed but comparing them to the Superflys, they sounded dull and lifeless. Not a knock against the Spendors(I still have a high opinion of them)it's just that they sound like speakers reproducing music and the Zu's sound like music. I had an audiophile buddy over and he preferred the Zu's by a large margin and commented that the British speakers midrange sounded 'sucked out' in comparison to the Zu's and I think he was hearing the rich, dense tonality presented by the Zu FRD.
The Omen Definitions might be a bit too much for my smaller room as I'm sure they would like even more 'breathing room' than the Superflys however they sound like a great fit for your listening space. I'm also curious how the two compare as I haven't seen many comments. Post your impressions of the Omen Definitions with 300bs -- curious to know.
Rockn - Man, I'm jealous! Walnut wasn't an option when I ordered mine -- I'm sure those are going to look as great as they sound! I know next to nothing about SET amplification but I've been impressed by the little that I've heard. Wonder what folks would think of a Bottlehead Stereomour 2A3/45 paired with the Superflys? The kit is $750 which seems like a great way to hear and learn along the way too. |
Secretchimp-99 That liveliness you describe is exactly how I feel about the Omen Defs that I have and that "the band is playing in the living room" is my favorite audiophile term:). I would love to have an A/B comparison of the two. How would you describe your soundstage? Mine is definitely very large and very deep. It is as if it is deep behind the speakers.....as if I were sitting like 20-30 rows back at a show.
I will have a 300B Set amp coming soon.....anyone in the Bay Area? |
Secretchimp99 - Awesome! thats what I like to hear. Mine were delayed because I opted for the walnut finish with black trim which should look spectacular. Speaking of SET amps, I'm curious too. Never owned a tube anything except my idecco which isn't the same. I've been reading good things about Decware amps & think it could be a good match but we'll see after I've had them awhile. Thanks for posting & keep em coming. |
Rockn - I'm loving mine with my Eastern Electric M520 through the 16ohm taps. I have somewhere around 175 hrs on them and they sound better each day with depth of sound and overall detail improving along the way. They are extremely dynamic and lively and that 'aggressiveness' in the beginning is no longer apparent. I was concerned the FRD would have some colorations that I wouldn't be able to live with, but that has not been the case at all.
The Zu speakers have been eye opening for me. The dynamics and 'live' sound are addictive and I feel much less like I'm playing a recording and more like I'm re-creating a musical event in my living room.
Though now I am wondering how they sound with SET amplification . . . |
Where is everybody? How are all those burned in Superflys sounding? Still waiting on mine from BF! |
It's great for rock and everything else! I had some people over the other day and played them some White Stripes "Icky Thump" and then put on Micheal Jackson "Off The Wall"on vinyl. Wow! They were shellshocked, couldn't believe records could sound like that. These things do power, tone and pace like no other speaker I have heard. Also great with blues(my fave), jazz and classical. The Gladiator soundtrack on vinyl is scary good! |
So this must be one hell of a speaker for rock? |
Wow. More changes at Zu Audio. Another website coming and they have a new logo. Not sure whether to laugh or cry...!
Enjoying the Soul Superfly nonetheless. |
Can someone whos heard both tell me the diference, soundwise ,between Superfly and Omen Def. |
Hifin, now you're talking. Talk about an idea whose time has come! I'll take two of those in a tobacco sunburst please, and ya better gimme a second pair in a flamin' maple to match my Gibson archtop. HA! |
Phil you're crackin' me up! I can see the marketing genius of it all now. Hey you guitar player's, if you really want to give that Les Paul a modern twist, hookup that 50 year old Fender Deluxe Reverb to a pair of Zu Superfly's. OMG, where is Curtis Mayfield when we need him?! :) |
Coltrane,
(I can't help but think of "The Royal Tennenbaums" starting with that salutation...) First, a half-century D'Angelico will sound fab through a plastic computer speaker, but that wouldn't nearly do it justice! You're a fortunate dude. But yes. Try it with one speaker before a pair, and via a tube guitar amp. The combination of speed and tone density from the Zu FRD beats a 12" guitar speaker except for someone wanting cone breakup -- the Zu driver is too hard to drive into that condition. My Archtops, solid bodies, 335s and all my amps gain tone through the Zu FRD, and if you leave the super tweeter unmasked on a Druid or Superfly, it makes a great speaker for an acoustic guitar amp.
I keep my living room hifi relatively uncluttered, but my secondary Druids system has both hifi SET monoblocks and a couple of tube guitar amps in close proximity at all times.
Phil |
I wonder it we could get them to make custom guitar amps in those awesome finishes!!! |
Ha, Phil are you sayin' my 50 year old D'Angelico never sounded so good as being played back through a pair of Zu's? Oh my, think of the money I could save combining guitar needs with audio needs. Only on AG! |
>>Superfly is the best transducer of guitar I have ever heard<<
Among hifi speakers, without a doubt. I'm a 42 year guitar player. Even in Druid 6 years ago, it was guitar reproduction that first made me pay attention to what Zu was up to.
Now, for a treat, rig a guitar cable to connect the output of a tube guitar amp to your Superfly. Mask the super tweet with thick cardboard or something & listen to that FRD as primary guitar speaker...
Phil |
Incredible Experience!!
I finally have a pair of superfly. I have been following and commenting on this thread from the beginning- I was in line for the original deal but just didn't like the way they looked in the carbon, so I passed. Last week they had a "second" pair in latte for $1400 w/ shipping. I jumped.
Why incredible? Because many moons(more than 6) ago when I was a working musician in LA. I saw Neil Young and Crazy Horse at the Troubador in LA, a very small club. It was just before "Everybody knows this is nowhere" album was released and they played the whole album. Now the stage at the Troubador was tiny- 10' square if that. I was sitting center about 10 feet away,- you guessed it just about the distance from the superflys. So- First chord of Cinnamon Girl- Deja Vu and each cut after- deja vu all over again. I was back in LA. What the fuck?? Brilliant!
I have spent the last 5 days going thru all my guitar favorites, Rock, jazz, classical, flamenco-- hundreds of cuts. I say without reservation, the Superfly is the best transducer of guitar I have ever heard. The rest sounds pretty good too, I am hooked.
By the way, I am using an old el34 based golden tube integrated and a cheap samsung 3d dvd player. I'll report back when I hook them into my main rig.
The only thing that I can figure is that the driver size is so close to the typical guitar amp. I mean the guitar is palpably there in my room. No shit. The dynamics, the tone, are there. Wow. This hobby is major fun again. |
Same. Walnut would have been perfect finish. Grrr. |
Isnt that a kicker when they go and add a nice new finish like that? I just got an Ampino hooked up to my Superflys and am liking what I am hearing. |
If anyone on or near Long Island, NY is contemplating buying a pair of Cosmic Carbon Superflys, please let me know.
Seeing the Superflys offered in Walnut and realizing they might actually fit in with a furniture scheme my wife would approve of has me desirous of working out some kinda swap finishes. |
Just a clarification / expansion on the Aleph amps that Gopher / Fred has referred to. They are my amps out on loan to him. They are Aleph clones built by Tim Rawson: 70 to 80 wpc SS mono-amps that run in full Class A. Excellent amps that run very hot. The fact that he says they hold their own against these other fine amps tell you just how good they are. Some of the best SS I've ever heard. |
I'm sitting where Irish is sitting, except the speakers are the Omens and the amp is a DIY 2A3 SET. Speakers are not due to ship until end January, so it's fun to read these posts in the meantime, even if they're about a different Zu speaker.
My current speakers are Tekton Katz Meow and sound fantastic. The Zu's will either push the Tektons to a 2nd system, find a place in that 2nd system, or be sent back. We'll see. |
I have a pair of Soul Superflys on order and I really appreciate all of the posts and recommendations, set-up advice, etc., particularly Gopher and Phil whom I have exchanged a couple of emails with.
It will be interesting to see if my custom 4 1/2 wpc 421a SET amp will work for me in my smallish room, but if not, I have a lot of options based on all of the valuable information on this thread.
Thanks!
T.J. |
My recommendation of an 845 based amp was not meant to be controversial or a blind recommendation based on that specific tube. Common sense is still required if you pursue this combination and you should choose carefully. My intention is to help fellow Zu owners find a matching amp without throwing away a lot of time and money blindly searching. |
Probably so--we'll qualify that with:
Decent 845 tubes;
competent design; and
reasonably good output transformers...
On a related note: Yes, I have heard similar things said about Zu speakers with 300B. Hell, 2a3 and 45 as well for the matter. I guess the common denominator is SET amplification. That said its hard to make these suckers sound 'bad'.
Still... I kinda wish I had my Fi 2a3 monos still, just to hear them on more sensitive, higher ohm speakers than the Abbys they drove. |
