Yamaha NS 5000 w/ NAD M33

Bel Canto Black EX with the NS-5000. Wonderful 

I take all reviews with a grain of salt. After going through over a half a dozen highly rated full range speakers I am firmly in the camp that believes the listening room makes the biggest difference when comparing speakers.

@steve59 In the past I have not been a fan of MAC. Now if I am not seeing a perfect match with the CODA #16, which is slightly warm. I think I would have the same issue with the MAC. That is why I tried to make the brighter Benchmark AHB2 work. I bought the Audience FrontRow speaker cable specifically for the AHB2 and it made a huge improvement. I really think the SimAudio will work for me. I am fine with the Sanders until I am ready to get a new amp.

BTW - in terms of neutrality, for my ears the KEF Blade is neutral. My NS5000 is a touch warmer.

yyzsantabarbara

I remember reading a post somewhere that you don't care for Mac electronics and I was wondering if you'd listened to the latest gen? I picked up a pair of MC611's to replace the H590 driving my Blades and the low level resolution improvement was a pleasant surprise. Top to bottom detail, resolution and soundstage gained more texture and bass which is one of Hegels highlights was bested by the mac. These amps power meters usually bounce between .6 and 6 watts and deliver. Ultimately I needed to turn the treble on the c49 to -2 db because the Blade uniq can overwhelm a room, but I recently heard the MA352 int driving a pair of Dali elikore11's and probably could have saved a lot of money going with that 200wpc int with a tube pre.

I was deciding on whether to sell my AHB2 tonight, so I hooked it up to the Holo Serene preamp and the Benchmark DAC3B. I put it through the RAAL T1-1b amp interface box and listened with the RAAL CA-1a headphone.

That fatigue I had on the NS5000 system with the AHB2 is not evident on the phones. A very surprising result. I am keeping the AHB2 for the RAAL, since it sounds so good. I am even using a silver headphone cable from RAAL.

Agree with the quality of amps used with the NS5000. The NAD is not in the best choice. I would take a Benchmark AHB2 mono over the NAD for about the same price, even though it was my worst performer on the NS5000.

With regards to the current or power of an amp I have to disagree on what is needed. I just finished a shootout with 3 amps,

- stereo Benchmark AHB2 (100 | 175 | 192 @ 8 | 4 | 2) (off memory)

- CODA #16 (150 | 300 | 600 @ 8 | 4 | 2)

- Sanders Magtech (500 | 900 @ 8 | 4)

All 3 of these amps drove the speakers to acceptable levels. The bass was incredibly articulate on the AHB2. The AHB2 is the weakest power wise of these 3 amps and the CODA is the strongest. One could argue the bass was the best with the AHB2. My friend, who dislikes the AHB2, even said this to me on the Stones Sympathy for the Devil track. My takeaway is that the NS5000 is not that difficult to drive even though it has that huge woofer.

The AHB2 sadly came out last in the overall test, I wanted it to win. The AHB2 had a slightly smaller soundstage and some fatigue in the top and mids with my gear. I am very sensitive to this, and others may not notice. I may be able to eliminate that with a warmer DAC, but the issue was not there with the other 2 amps.

Now if you want to stay in a "budget" price range the Sanders Magtech is an excellent choice for the NS5000. My used Sanders was $4k from Sanders with warranty and is excellent in many ways. Now if I had not heard the #16 on the NS5000 I could be very happy long term with the Sanders. The Sanders is miles ahead of NAD M22 V2 that I had in the house long ago. 

I also tried my modded Peachtree GAN1 (Class D 200 @ 8) and it was too weak to drive the NS5000 nicely. Though I will try this again as a stopgap tomorrow. I may sell the Sanders and AHB2 to raise cash for a more expensive amp. 

Given my taste for a neutral sounding amp fo the NS5000, that suggestion of the Boulder amp is interesting. The Diablo would be too warm for me. A SImAudio North Collection is what I think would work the best for my ears, but I have only heard the old lineup. My CODA #16 is an amazing amp, but I like it better on my Magnepan LRS+ speaker (spectacular pairing with Holo Serene preamp + LRS+). The LRS+ is nowhere comparable to the NS5000 but the #16 takes it to another level of goodness. The Sanders comes pretty close to the #16 on the NS5000.

Agree with others here, adding room treatment and a sub will help, but those speakers merit much better electronics, trade the NAD in or sell it and get a Boulder 866 or even better a Gryphon Diablo 333. I have heard those speakers more than once and even at shows they always impressed me no matter the electronics though those woofers need a low impedance amp with high current to sound their best. 

Echoing some of what @waytoomuchstuff mentioned about dynamic contrast, dropping the room’s noise floor as much as possible is the first step to improving perceived dynamics, i.e., takimg care of that noisy hvac, buzzing things, rattling walls etc. Then, treat the room followed by grippy electronics. (The alternative is to keep cranking it up into hearing loss).

Talk to Poes Acoustics, Acoustic Fields, Grimani systems, etc on how you need to get that drywall, studs, etc done before tossing panels in a room.

Speaking of electronics, some guys like it loose. If you fall in that category, can’t have your cake and eat it too...

Do not hear the NS5000 as being towards the clinical side of neutral. It is slightly warm. My Magnepan LRS+ is brighter. I am considering the SimAudio because it is brighter than my CODA #16 for the NS5000. 

A couple of thoughts here:

If you are considering the purchase of an M23, that’s roughly a $3k investment. I’ll use that as a "baseline" for additional "financial headroom" in your system.

I’ll go along with others who have suggested room treatments. You can do alot for a fraction of your available budget. This is also consistent with your inquiry related to adding more power. Reducing reflections and quieting down those sounds that like to hang around for a while will improve the perceived dynamic contrast in the room. This may provide the sonic impact you are looking for, without adding more power.

One needs to ask what your goals might be in wanting to add more power? Typically, this is done when a system does not have the energy levels the listener is looking for. 2x the power = noticeable increases in SPL. However, if the desired outcome is in the deep bass region, this task may be better served handing off the responsibility to a powered subwoofer rather than "exercising" the NS-5000s woofers more aggressively. They won’t play as low as a high quality sub, and will, literally, die trying. Something to consider?

Also, I’m going to put this out there although some may disagree with this premise. I found that Class D amps are particularly picky about power delivery. That is to say that they sound much, MUCH better when supplied with excellent power. I’d start with replacing the wall plug with something better than builder grade, and pay close attention to power distribution/surge protection/filtering. Last, but certainly not least, try a variety of premium power cords to see which provides the best sonic benefit(s) to your system. IF, after doing some and all of the above, and you like what you are hearing, you might try replacing the 10A slow blow fuse with an "audiophile" fuse. Many on this forum (myself included) have found these to quite effective. Most offer return privileges if you don’t like what you hear. I’ll just state that unless you’ve done most of the above, you’ve not experienced the true sonic character of your NAD.

In summary, for less the cost of an M23, there are other options that will provide a more sonically rewarding experience. IF you do ALL the above and still want more impact then, by all means, add the M23. But, first things first.

Reviews I've read suggest the NS-5000 leans towards the detailed, clinical side of neutral and if that's so wouldn't a tube amp or at least pre amp add some needed warmth to the speakers?

@deep_333 Awesome. I was wanting the KEF Blade Meta 2 but went for the safer NS5000 (harder to knock down). I would have been happy with both, but I am surprised at how amazing the NS5000 turned out to be.

I am also a huge Schitt fanboy. I am currently listening to the Mjolnir v3 preamp with the CODA #16 amp and Magnepan LRS+. I am using the bright Benchmark DAC3B which maybe the secret sauce to make this work.

When I tried the Mjolnir v3 with the CODA #16 and the Schitt Yggi+ Less Is More. I stopped listening after 2 songs, it was not my type of sound.

The Mjolnir is a keeper at $1200. Just got to find the proper pairing. It also pairs nicely with the Schitt Aegir ($800). I used that for headphones.

I have heard the Luxman c900u and the m900u with Harbeth. I feel the Harbeth are a little warmer than the NS5000. I loved the sound, but I could not see myself listening long term to such a warm system.

The CODA #16 I owned is not as warm as the Luxman. I also use a super neutral preamp, the Benchmark LA4 or Holo Serene with the NS5000.

I think a lot of people would think you are a bit nuts pairing the Yamaha with Schitt gear. Not me, those Schitt guys know what they are doing. My lower cost Schitt Yggi+ Less Is More replaced my Lumin X1 (partially replaced since the Schitt needs a streamer).

@yyzsantabarbara

I’ve had the NS5000 for a short while now. I got an offer I couldn’t refuse on my Schweikert from a guy who audited it earlier this year and sold it (i.e., my empty wallet became fulleth again). I was leaning a bit towards a Borresen, but, ended up pulling the trigger on the ns5000 instead.

I first tried the c5000+m5000 pairing on the ns5000 and was not content. I typically use the c5000+m5000 on my TAD and that is hog heaven. The m5000 doesn’t cut it for the ns5000....Yamaha...they can make their amps sound brilliant with their former nemesis’ speaker (Pioneer/TAD), but, can’t make that amp work for their own speaker (strange indeed).

I currently have the C5000+ Schiit Tyrs and GR openbaffle servo sub on the NS5000 and I am lost for words with the exquisite sound of the ns5000. I have also been content with usage of the modest schiit Kara. Schiit’s class Aish continuity topology is something special.

I’ve tried my Luxman c900u+m900u on the ns5000 and it is a different kind of nice, but, I seem to prefer the Schiit Tyr with it. I have become a Schiit fanboy of some sort 😂 

I’ve tried my Technics SU-R000 on the ns5000 and I don’t like that pairing. This speaker is fairly picky with amps, but, with the right pairing for one’s tastes, it is magical.

@adamaxel I noticed on your photo that you have the tweeters on the outside. That is supposed to give a bigger sound stage and a bit less imaging. I have the tweeters on the inside and have not tried it the other way. 

Have you tried both ways?

I see you asked about power. My Sanders is 500 | 900 watts # 8 and 4 Class AB. The CODA #16 is 150 | 300 | 600 at 8 | 4 | 2 and has 100 watts in Class A. It also has a massive power supply. I think the CODA is the more powerful amp.

The 100-watt AHB2 was surprising powerful with the NS5000 but that extra power of the other 2 amps gives a bigger soundstage.

Yes, more power helps the NS5000 but is not essential and depends on the music you play.

I own the NS5000.  What a speaker, I threw away the shipping boxes. My friend who has forgotten more about audio and music than I ever knew came over to my place to hear the NS5000.  He said the NS5000 was only bested by 2 other systems that he had heard and those cost $600k. 

I have heard the NAD M22 V2 in my home. It is not the same as the M33. I did not like the NAD M22 V2. I have tried a PeachTree GAN1 that was modded by Ric Shultz at EVS. It was not powerful enough at 200 watts.

I then tried the CODA #16 (what my friend heard). I also upgraded to the Audience FrontRow speaker cable. In terms of total satisfaction, I would say it was a 95/100 for me and likely 99/100 for my buddy. He is more of a tube guy. I would like the warmth of the #16 dialed back a tiny bit for me to say it was perfect. When I demoed it, I used the Holo Serene preamp.

I moved the CODA #16 to my office to pair with the $1000 Magnepan LRS+. What a combo. The brighter LRS+ works perfectly on my ears with the #16. I have hooked up 2 preamps to the CODA #16 (it has a switch) and I am blown away how good this sounds (not as good as the NS5000). I am using the Holo Serene preamp and the Schitt Mjolnir v3 preamp from 2023. Unfortunately, I am not taking the #16 away from the LRS+.

On the NS5000 I am doing a shootout with a stereo Benchmark AHB2. This amp will be close to the sound of the NAD M33. As someone who has owned AHB2 monos I will say that the volume on the NS5000 would be better served by monos over the single stereo. Sound wise there is not much difference with stereo and mono AHB2.

The other amp in the shootout is the Sanders Magtech (which used to be on the LRS+). The Sanders is a much better match to the NS5000 over the AHB2. In fact, the AHB2 is going up for sale later tonight. There is a bit of hardness in the sound that I am now attributing to the AHB2 and nothing upstream. I now am using the Schitt Yggi+ Less is More DAC and the hardness is not too bad, but it is still there. The Sanders does not exhibit this issue. I am using the Benchmark LA4 preamp for the NS5000 (also long term)

The Sanders is likely a stop gap for me though I could see it being a long-term solution.  The amp that I think will work great on the NS5000 for my more neutral preferences is the new SimAudio 761 or 861 from the North Collection. There is a local dealer that carries both the NS5000 and the North Collection and I will demo this later in the year.

I have also heard the Yamaha 5000 series gear with the NS5000. I think the CODA is much better.  I am also looking at other CODA amps to see if I can get that 5% dissatisfaction eliminated.

The NS5000 is not too hard to drive so there are lots of amp choices. I am going for a perfect fit (like the #16 and LRS+) so I have a few more amps to try out.

I can’t really say as I’m not familiar with the NAD, but it should give you more than enough headroom.  But as I mentioned with the Kula, adding a sub was sufficient for me in lieu of adding more watts.  

If you’re still focused on improving the amp, I’d probably explore going with a higher end power amp altogether.  The Yamaha M-5000 would be the logical place to start.  

These Class D purifi amps are not terrible. 

*Down the line, I will certainly upgrade to something more suitable.

@oczed  I appreciate the response. I love Mola Mola's, but I can see how the Kula, at 150w, might leave you in the same position. 

Very curious about bridging the NAD M33 with M23. (It would provide 700w to my power hungry NS-5000's)

@oczed do you think that's too much? (700w)

I’ve owned the NS-5000s for about a year now and have tried them with the Yamaha A-S3000 and now my current amp, the Mola Mola Kula.  As you’ve observed, they definitely like power to help with dynamics and bass control.  I’m not familiar with the NADs, but if you like the general sound profile, then bridging may make a lot of sense by giving you the added headroom.  

There’s a lot I love about the Kula, but I was still wanting more dynamic range.  Given my room constraints, monoblocking wasn’t an option and I really needed an all-in-one unit like the Kula.  I recently added a sub, however, which significantly helped the lower frequencies (obviously), to the point where I no longer feel wanting for greater immediacy/speed.  Depending on your setup and room, that may be an easier solution for you.

You will need Yamaha m5000 to make them sing for sure ! 

I agree with @jasonbourne71 and ​​​​@erik_squires you don’t need more power!😎

Mike

You would be much better off with a higher quality amplifier then more power class ass d is very precise and  articulate but misses some of the warmh and body of a conventional class a ab amplifier

We are an nad dealer so we have direct experience with your gear

Dave and troy

AUDIO INTELLECT NJ

NAD DEALERS

I'd be surprised if you need more power, but consider room treatment.  Dampening extra reflections can really help the bass bloom.

The NAD is class D (bad nad). The class d emperor never had clothes with certain types of speakers.

Return it and get a pair of Schiit Tyr monoblocks ($3200) + a Kara preamp for the under 5k price bracket to do that speaker justice. It will let you see the special something about this speaker.

After that, you could end up spending ~ upwards of 20k to beat the schiit and still doubt if you got 'the wallet's worth or not (from time to time).

You don't need the extra wattage. Typical listening levels for most systems are just a few watts. The rule of thumb is 10X the average power to handle dynamic peaks.