Would changing to a MC solve my problem?

@traudio 

Maybe this has already been answered, but

Dear @lewm : The OP already has the answers to his questionsand some additional information for he can pull the trigger but instead of doing that he follows posting. Here what I said it:

he has the link calculator that noromance posted and that according those 46db/2.4mv gives: 478mv.

MC gives no more flexibility.

Buy the excellent Goldring 1042 MM that has 6.5mv on output level.

Puts in contact directly with Hegel and Soundsmith and explain it to them. "

Now, exist the possibility that the V10 is not achieving those 46db and exist the posibility too that its cartridge has not that nominal 2.4mv output level but a little lower.

But he said that with his former phono stage Phonomena the gain was no issue at all BUT ( always exist a " but " ) the Phonomena gain kind of desing permits

( either MC/MM cartridges. ) to change the gain between 40db to 66db in 4-5 swith positions/steps gain.This kind of designis a little unusual for aphono stage but even that Phenomena says in its owner instructions:

" Lower gains ( 40db and 46db. ) for MM cartridges or a HOMC with an output level of 2.0mv or higher. The OP cartridge has higher output.

So, it’s useless to continue this MONOLOGUE due that I agree with you:

" I think you aren’t paying attention and/ ......"

R.

I think lewm was referring to the V10.

I see. My apologies.

Avanti1960, that was one of the first things I tried. I have a set of Cardas adapters, but they made no difference in the volume. I'll have to check how they are wired because that should have worked.

@traudioca 

Not a fan of your cartridge and I would recommend a LOMC of .5mv using 64 db gain on your V10 but don't throw in the towel just yet.  

Use the XLR out of your V10 in MM mode and you can get 50 db gain which should be perfect for your cart.  

If your amp does not accept XLR just buy a pair of Neutrik XLR to RCA adaptors,  i use them with no issue.  

I think lewm was referring to the V10.

As Noromance mentioned, you are getting a nominal 400mV output in signal voltage, with your current cartridge, from your Hegel via its MM stage,

The Hegel does not have a phono stage.

I will ignore your silly riposte. I am not here to do homework. You mentioned the Cary once in one of your early posts, and I did respond to that by saying that most integrated amplifiers (like your Cary) do not add very much if any gain in their built in linestage sections and that lack of an additional boost in gain from your linestage might well be why you are dissatisfied with phono SPLs. As Noromance mentioned, you are getting a nominal 400mV output in signal voltage, with your current cartridge, from your Hegel via its MM stage, which has a robust gain quotient of 46db, when compared to other MM stages. The specs on your Cary indicate that it has a 450mV input sensitivity for full output, which is actually quite sensitive. But CDPs typically make 1V to 2V signal voltage. This accounts for why you may perceive a relative dropoff with analog. So, your alternatives are: buy another high output MM or MI cartridge that makes on the order of 4 or 5mV output (there are many good ones and that is cheaper than buying a new phono stage), or buy a new phono stage, but if you plan to keep the 2.4mV cartridge, you will need an MM stage with at least 50db gain to compete with your CDP (not easy to find), or buy an MC cartridge, or buy a linestage to feed the Cary, or any number of other things. Over and out.

The H390 specifications do not give the amplifier’s input sensitivity nor does it give the line stage gain figure (most likely just attenuation with no gain).  I would email Hegel to get the amp’s input sensitivity in order to gain match the source components.  On the surface, it sound like your cartridge output plus phono stage gain is not producing the appropriate voltage to drive your amp to full power.  

I agree

The H390 specifications do not give the amplifier’s input sensitivity nor does it give the line stage gain figure (most likely just attenuation with no gain).  I would email Hegel to get the amp’s input sensitivity in order to gain match the source components.  On the surface, it sound like your cartridge output plus phono stage gain is not producing the appropriate voltage to drive your amp to full power.  

lewm

All equipment concerned has been mentioned. I think you aren’t paying attention and/ or you aren’t familiar with the 2 integrated amps I’ve mentioned.

^^^^^^^^^ LOOK UP!^^^^^^^

Again: The former phono stage was a Musical Surroundings Phonomena, and now the Hegel V-10. I had this same issue with both the Hegel H390 and now with a Cary SLI-80HS.

2.4mv output. Sounds like a Soundsmith cartridge output. I have one that outputs the same. It’s great cartridge yet annoying to match up gain wise due to its in between output. Running it, via the phono pre, to my Coda 07x was no issue due to  the 07X having input level matching capability. The new pre being used does not have that feature. Kind of annoying.
 

There is no perfect world….

Traudio, both Raul and I are trying to help but you don’t seem to pay attention. What linestage are you using? (That’s my question.) IMO, unless you dislike the Hegel on other grounds, the last thing you need to do to solve the particular problem at hand is to dump the Hegel.

Again, the only thing I changed was the phono stage which was a Musical Surroundings Phonomena, and now the Hegel V-10.

Only analog and a digital input, no other sources.

Ok, the only one not mentioned is the cart which is a Soundsmith Zephyr III with about 60 hrs on it. Not a Moving Magnet, but the instructions have you set it as such.

It looks like either the phono stage needs to change our I need to switch to a MC.

@traudio : In the mean time to decide what to do you can test the Goldring 1042 that’s not so expensive and that has higher output level ( 6.5mv ) and is a better performer that what you can think for its low price tag: the 1042 stylus is similar to the one in the over 10K Ortofon MC Diamond or the Verissimo models ( Replicant 100. )

Btw, the gentlemans that try to help you are at " blind " because you do not disclosed your system items yet.

MC gives you not more flexibility. What can help you ( not the MC. ) is to match your system items to your MUSIC/Sound targets and then choose the items that could match it and could match it electrically in between.

R.

You could as well conclude that your MM cartridge is at fault, because 46db gain in an MM phono stage is typically more than adequate. On the other hand, 2.4 mV output from your MM is low . Most MMs make 4-5mV output. All of this suggests to me that you’re not getting much if any gain from your linestage, and that’s why digital is fine but analog is weak.

Guys, I had this issue with the Hegel and now with a Cary SLI-80.
I know it’s the phono stage since that’s the change I made on the analog. The former stage had enough gain, this one doesn’t. That’s all.

My question was if switching to to a MC cart will give me more flexibility with the gain?

Noromance’s link answered my question.

What linestage are you using, and how much gain does it add to the signal driving the amplifier? If you’re using an integrated, the linestage section of many integrated amplifiers does not add gain. 400mV from your phono without linestage gain may not be sufficient to drive the amplifier section to full output needed to drive Maggie’s. Whereas the cdp makes 2V, more than enough to drive any typical amp to full output. So Raul is correct in that case.

@traudio : Ok, then digital is ok so the problem is with analog and that could beaproblem in the V10 or in the H390 running analog.

Why insist I in the overall issue? because those 46dbs of gain ( repeat ) is totally enough for any integrated to achieve over 95dbs on SPL no matters what.

The designer of your  cartridge spec said:

" suggested preamp gain: 38-44db "

and you have 46db. 

With all respect looking for more gain makes no sense at all. Again, something is wrong down there. Maybe the loadimpedance or in the MM stage circuitor something around it.

You can ask directly to Hegel/Soundsmith.

Anyway, your " call ". I'm trying only to help you.

Maybe some one in this forum can help about with out need you buy a new cartridge.If I was you I ask and explain all to Hegel and if for them what you are experienced is ok then buy the MC cartridge.

R.

noromance

Thanks for the link. That's exactly what I was looking for. 

rauliruegas

The room is not the issue as the Digital input plays at an appropriate volume setting. 

Dear @traudio : 46db gain is more than enough to could have over 95db SPL if that’s what you need but I think that your gain " trouble " is not about the V10 gain but around two things: first is the very low sensitivity of your Magnepan that needs a lot og current to fly along perhaps a impedance curve that could goes at lower than the nominal manufacturer spec of 4ohms and maybe your integrated unit can’t really handled with aplomb you want it and the other issue could be that you have a room surrounded of attenuators as the floor carpet and the kind of listening couchs and the like. problem is not in the cartridge/V10 but this is only an opinion about and could be wrong.

Sorry not give you a different answer you are looking for.

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

2.4mV with 46dB gain will give you 400mV

0.4mV with 66dB gain will give you twice that.

Ref. Vinyl Engine.

You could also get a higher output MM where 4.5mV beats both at 46dB gain.