runwell,
Neither the MC352 nor the MC2100 have tubes in them. They're both solid state.
Neither the MC352 nor the MC2100 have tubes in them. They're both solid state.
361 responses Add your response
I used to have MC352 and 2100 (tube inside )combo for several years back I am in China. During the listening period,I have deep understand of the sound. The key points is slow speed sound, and fat bass,with these 2 points you can never hear the real feeling of live perference if you have the CD. But some old guy might love it,their sound is relex in some way. if you are not ask accurate music,and you can accept their bass,you will take it. With these 2 points,I do not like either of them. so I sell out and enter Audio research world,which is whole different sound with fast speed and 3D body is quite large,do not mention the passion of the sound. |
phd We shouldn’t take a post comparing a Parasound ampl to any McIntosh amp too seriously. I know my hearing is 99% perfect. The only reason I had my hearing checked is because I have chronic tinnitus. Tinnitus does not affect your hearing. My point being is that half of the population over forty years of age is hearing impaired to some degree. A person who is hearing impaired can’t hear the highs and lows like a person with good hearing can. It is just like many sound engineers are hearing impaired because they have been around bombastic sound most or all of their entire employed life. That accounts why so many recordings are recorded way too loud with the bass and treble ramped up. That also holds true for the person who master’s albums. If they can’t hear the bass, or if it doesn’t sound loud enough, crank up the levels! I’ve heard a lot of McIntosh amps in my life. I’ve also heard my share of Parasound amps. I’m fortunate to have a friend who works at the largest high end audio retailer in our large city. They carry McIntosh, Bryston, Meridian, and less expensive audio equipment such as Arcam, Parasound, and Rotel; on and on. I must admit the Parasound amplifiers give great sound for the money. I would think that anyone who thinks that Parasound amplifiers are comparable or better than McIntosh amplifiers are one of the following: 1. Completely delusional 2. Have a hearing impairment and are in dire need of seeing an audiologist, stat! That’s my take on his post. Campaigner8 |
Mcintosh is like the Rolex of audio gear in the looks department. However in the realm of solid state, one guy on youtube compared a $5,000 Mcintosh amp to a Parasound amp that retailed for just under $1,300 and preferred the Parasound amp on every level. He plans on selling the Mac. I'm not saying everyone should agree but that's one person's take. I'm sure their tube gear is top notch but never heard it. |
sricha20530 Okay, that makes total sense. My listening room is 500 square feet in size. I like as much bass as the musician or band intended. I think our B & Ws do a decent job reproducing almost anything that we put through them. I like a lot of different genres of music. I’m not big into rap. If a person listened to a lot of rap, the subwoofer would be nice to have. I’ve never owned any McIntosh gear. I wouldn’t be adverse to giving a listen to McIntosh when my Bryston components give in. That is likely a long time down the road. I love my Bryston gear. I would like to hear a comparison of my Bryston setup compared to a comparably priced McIntosh setup. That would be interesting. |
Campaigner8, When I purchased my system, my Home was 4,000 sq ft and my listening room was open to the back, so yes I felt I needed the rel sub. I recently moved to a 1,600 sq ft Home with a smaller listening room and as of yet have not hooked up the sub. So far, I’m fine without it and my Wife appreciates it. |
The question is not the amount of bass it's the quality and timing of the bass. A lot of folks are finding out the difference. A sub on either side of the seated position and mains set in a good triangle about 1/3 further away than the subs, might change your mind. I use a setup that the front of the sub is an 15" passive and both sides are 12" HE actives. 6CF boxes. The 2 passives are the first sub driver to hit my position. Some recordings are NOT phase correct, I just flip the 180 switch on one sometimes both. It's still 6 drivers in 6 different directions into the room. Its a DBA in two boxes. Best idea I had in a while to tell the truth.. I tried it over the last week or so... A second 12" passive facing the wall? It would act like 8 drivers because it would be 8 drivers.. No need for 8 boxes though.. Just Distributed BASS, no array. Maybe radial bass array. or ARC BASS I also use GRs servo subs turned sideways on either side of the seated position 4-6 12" OB HE drivers... (they are setting right now.) It's how the room pressures and the timing. If you decouple your mains and subs. AND add as much room treatment as you can stand.. That is 50% of the sound anyway. I like a ported room to. Some people like a sealed or semi sealed room, that makes a ton of difference in EAR pressure. The heavier the bass the more I port the room... IF I want to listen for a while.. 12-24 Helmholtz tuning tubes should smooth out the rest. Where is Master M? Room first, tubes last... :-) I'm going to buy one more Mac. Tube C1100 all tricked out. My ears are going to need that tone control soon enough.. I don't care who hates Mac... More for me.. :-) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gr1IA8Vnw0A |
sricha20530 I have the same B & W 805 D3 speakers powered by a Bryston amp/preamp setup. My Bryston gear would be in the same price range as your McIntosh components. I’m just curious if you feel the the subwoofer was necessary? I auditioned two subwoofers and felt they made the B & W 805s too bass heavy. I was finding myself turning off the sub for most music I listen too. In the end, I didn’t purchase a subwoofer. Do you find you have your subwoofer turned on for most of the music you listen to? I’m not saying you made a mistake buying the subwoofer. I’m just curious. |
I never gave McIntosh a chance, hearing for years they sounded poor for doctors and lawyers, etc. Well, I heard a system in a store one day and I said this sounds great, live almost, he said it is our McIntosh system. My jaw dropped, long story short I have McIntosh longer than Levinson, Rowland, ARC, Luxman, and to this day my system just makes music so enjoyable. Seems you always kick the big dog, on top of sonics they are soooo reliable and hold their value. |
Around the time the Revel Salon 2 speakers came out, (2009) I was looking for a speaker and auditioned them, and thought they sounded good. On the second Audition, the store had them playing on whatever was the current Macintosh tube amps at the time. It sounded nothing like the first audition and asked the salesman to try another amp as it didn’t sound very good. I don’t remember what amp he switched it to, but the speakers now sounded good, as it had previously. That was my first and only experience with Macintosh. Up to that point my completely uneducated opinion was that they were more of a lifestyle product than an audiophile one. A friend recently told me he would be inheriting his late dad’s Macintosh amp, which I remembered seeing briefly years ago and loved the looks. Excited for him, I asked if it was tube or solid state. When he told me unfortunately it was solid state, the conversation deflated around us. I think they had put money into fixing it a few years ago as well, so I imagine it could be 30 or 40 years old. Not sure it that makes it better than current. The friend has his original JBL 4311’s which I always wanted as kid but couldn’t afford. (Which he obviously could, hence the Dad owning Macintosh). I imagine when he has them paired it will make a great looking system. There were several speakers I wanted as a teenager but could’t afford or convince my dad to buy, including a pair of infinity 2.5’s that tortured me every time I walked into the mall and passed them in the store window, as if they were mocking me. I also wanted Bose 901’s at the time, which were out of my reach as well. Shortly after hearing those Salon 2’s close to a dozen years ago, I extracted my revenge as an adult, thanks to Andrew Jones, a vapor deposition chamber and the element that occupies number 4 on the periodic table. |
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@emergingsoul I bought the legacy models - so I bought them new with a full warranty. If your statement "Arc tube life horrifying" is an allusion to trick or treat. I don't see it. What specifically do you find horrifying about Audio Research? I am open to your opinion but your judgement without support is more of a 'trick' than a 'treat'. |
@emergingsoul does it really matter if folks hate McIntosh? The passion seems to get folks talking about a brand and that brand seems to be doing really well. I've had a great experience with McIntosh and am upgrading some of my system and decided to replace my McIntosh preamp and amp with Moon by Simaudio. The irony of the upgrade is that I believe the time I spent with McIntosh rekindled my music appreciation and enjoyment. And when it was time to upgrade, I specifically listened to some other brands including Audio Research, Moon and McIntosh. And when moving up in power I found the Audio Research superb but beyond my budget and Moon preferable to McIntosh as a better price. My audio rack will be much more minimalist and subdued... But I sold my McIntosh gear for over 80% of the price I paid for it. And I am confident the gear will generate more smiles. |
Ever since owning a MC275, I have never listened to so much music. Thats what it's all about to me.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ This is exactly my same reaction when hearing a Full Range , duos W8+W4 (DIYer says use the term Full Range, not Wide Bander) So you have a magical amplifier now add a magical speaker. Double magic. |
Awesome info. Mr george using 600 watt monos, so 4 ohms good to do. Interesting that using 8 ohms connection would raise decibel level does increase in damping factor going from 8 to 4 ohms impact ‘open nature’ of sound? Ie. Need more watts to push thru and fully realize dynamic demands of frequencies |
emergingsoul OPOk look at the solid black line between 100 and 1k (bottom scale) markings, you can see that the black line is below 4ohms (left scale) with much of the bass, your sub won’t fix this heavy load on an amp. so 4 ohms ok vs 8? Have a sub in mix fyi.I’d try the 2ohm see if it’s loud enough, if not the 4ohm, the 8ohm will not give the best bass but it will be the loudest. As for your sub, these B&W’s go down quite low, so the sub should be bought in at around 30hz, and the volume level reset for each transformer tap you use. https://www.stereophile.com/images/616BW802fig3.jpg Cheers George. |
emergingsoul OP With the B&W802’s giving this 3ohm load to the amp https://www.stereophile.com/images/616BW802fig1.jpg They demand an amp that can drive 4ohm or less un-phased, even 2ohm, as there is also a nasty EPDR of -64 degrees negative phase angle at 70hz, you could even try the 2ohm tap to get the ultimate bass control, but you won’t have much wattage to go loud with. Really I don't think these sort of speakers are suitable for a transformer coupled amps. Cheers George |