In TYPICAL business model, I would expect to make profits as long as you can until it's no longer profitable, as opposed to get a jump on it. "In the future, we won't make profits so we are stopping now"..?? Does anyone buy that?
Makes less sense to me, because I got the impression the were selling everything they made.
Nope. I think there is more to the story. Maybe it's a stupid simple as the brother-in-law got a divorce, maybe got in trouble with taxes or something...maybe they have so much money they don't care. Maybe they got a new owner, or maybe current owner wanted to buy a baseball team....
"
I intentionally want to keep my post short because I think we may be veering off topic a bit and I don't want the OP to think we're hi-jacking his thread on subs. Anyone interested in continuing off-topic discussions is probably best served by starting a separate new thread on the topic of their choice."
My mistake, I thought I was responding on another thread. Yes, I feel like an idiot and am more than a bit embarrassed. My only excuse is I have a brain the size of a small walnut. Please disregard, Tim
I'm going to disagree with the "Phone company whats to make a huge profit, so people buy them" mentality and say it's because people want convenience. Consuming music on a phone is incredible easy whether it be through iTunes of Google Play. BTW, all companies want to make a profit. That's how they stay in business and that's how employees continue to get paid.
I paid $320 for my LG V20+ SK Edition unlocked NIB about a year ago. I paid $400 for for my wife's LG+ V30 a few months ago. I pay $9/month for my plan and $3.40/month for my wife's plan (Talk & Text, no Data). Some people have to have the latest and greatest phone at pay full price, or more, on the day it's released. If you overpaid for your phone, well that's on you. And, if you're paying Hundreds for a Cell Plan, maybe it's time to look around for something more economical.
I'm sure that there's a lot more profit in my "audiophile" EIM's then in the Phone or Plan. I have JH Audio, Campfire Audio and Periodic Audio IEM's that were all bought direct. So, that would mean that there probably at least a 40-50 Point line. At the 40 Point mark, there's more profit in my JH audio IEM's then the cost of both Phones. There might be enough to also go out for a nice Dinner. Remember, Audiophile companies tend to be niche, sell less product, and have higher prices.
Let's get back to the topic of this thread. After seeing the announcements for Oppo, I called them to get the reason for their exit. Quite simply, they found that manufacturer Blu-ray Players as an unsustainable model. They sell less Players every year, while cost continue to rise. So, they decided to take what money they had left and put it toward supporting the product that they had already sold; the Honorable thing. The other products they sold were just a small part of their revenue stream. BTW, they were surprised about the Sonica, but it was just too late. We can debate this over and over, but every year less and less people buy physical media. Every year there are less and less "High-End" CD, SACD and Blu-ray players and transports. Right now all the buzz is about Computer Audio and Streaming.
Now, I have to take my leave. My Custom Horse drawn Coach Builder just called and he has some design considerations to discuss. Yes, I found the last Builder of Custom Coaches and you can't have his Telegraph number.
Remember what Groucho Marx said about small clubs? 'I don't want to be a part of any club that would have me as a member.'
You made a lot of good points in your last post and I agree we're all part of a small club that is likely dwindling. We're certainly in the midst of a transitional period currently; away from physical media and toward streaming and downloads. I realized this a few yrs ago and invested in a computer audio system (laptop running JRiver Media Center, Synology NAS with a 2 TB hard drive, Seagate 2 TB backup hard drive and the Oppo 105 as the DAC and digital player,). My entire CD collection has been ripped to the NAS and playback is controlled by my laptop. Definite progress since it's like having a high quality digital jukebox in your home.
I've also begun downloading several hi-res 24 bit/96 khz music as WAV and FLAC files. I'm clearly able to hear the improvement in noise levels, dynamic range, detail levels and the resultant more realistic sound stage illusion that 24/96 provides over 16bit/44khz CDs. However, I've found that the key to excellent hi-res music file performance is the files history Music files recorded direct to 24/96 digital, as opposed to simple digital copies to 24/96 of the original analog master tapes, sound significantly better to me on my system. I find improvements in sound performance of 24/96 copies of analog masters, when compared to CD copies of the same content, to be much less noticeable. I intentionally want to keep my post short because I think we may be veering off topic a bit and I don't want the OP to think we're hi-jacking his thread on subs. Anyone interested in continuing off-topic discussions is probably best served by starting a separate new thread on the topic of their choice.
The only other company making a "high end" 4K player is Cambridge Audio.
Nobody else, except us here, are buying Disc anymore. Best Buy has announced that they are no longer going to sell CD's anymore and are reducing the shelf space for DVD\Blu-ray sales. I was in BB this morning and they had no 4K players on display and they had a normal Blu-ray player hooked up to the 4k Sony projector in Magnolia.
At the beginning of 2017, Netflix had over 93 Million subscribers, but only 4.1 Million rent physical discs; that less than 5%! I myself am doing about 50% of my media viewing through streaming and I own a DVR. The Networks are forcing us to do this because they can cut out the Middleman. And, if they don't let me watch it at my own convenience, screw them, I'll consume my media elsewhere.
I own 2 Oppo Players and I'm very satisfied with them. I rent five movies/month from Netflix and two 4K movies/month from 3DBlurayrental. I stream about the same amount from Netflix/Amazon/HBO/Comcast etc. I subscribe to about the same amount of Shows online as I record on my DVR.
I used to purchase about 10 CD's/month. Now I purchase about 2-3 physical discs and download about 3-4 a month. It's more convenient to download them and I can get a lot of stuff in 24/96 or 24/192 FLAC.
Remember, we are a very small club here and we're shrinking every day. The next time you start to forget that, look around and ask yourself "How many people are listening to music on their phone and how many have an Astell & Kern player in their Pocket?" Ask yourself "How many people are using generic Apple earbuds or 'High End' IEMS?"
Seems to me, there has to be other options other than Oppo.
I am not the expert here, but my impression of my 205 is that it's REALLY good for the money, but I'm not sure it's the best at anything.
Theta Prime II sounds at least as good for 2 ch, but it doesn't do more than that. Tells me that there should be better surround processers out there.
i did limited research when I bought it, but some of what I read, the cheaper Sony's are supposed to have good picture.
So I don't know...I am sure there are many that have more informed opinions than mine.
Seems to me, the Oppo was great for the money, but the decision to end business in that area is more a loss for Oppo than for the consumer as a whole. It won't be long until someone else steps in to fill the gap. Possible the product(s) are available now, just not well known.
I bought my last generation Panasonic VT60 series plasma knowing they were ceasing production of plasmas due to the costs of 4K upgrades likely pricing any of their prospective new model 4K hdtvs out of the market. It still puts a smile on my face every time I turn it on. I've viewed the LG 65" B7 4K OLED at a local A/V shop and completely agree with you about the inky blacks that, along with the new HDR10 and Dolby vision for more vivid colors, produces excellent contrast for a truly stunning picture quality; undoubtedly the best picture I've ever seen. I know the LG OLD would put a smile on my face every day, too, especially at $1,350. Now you've done it, made me reconsider my decision and got me thinking of moving the Panasonic to my bedroom. Cut it out! The only thing holding me back now is the issues caused by pairing the 4K LG with my 1080p Oppo 105. I'd need to find a reasonably priced 205 since I need the hi-res DAC, 5.1 surround processing and 4K content playback the Oppo provides. The Oppo's become such an integral part of my AV system that I now can't envision doing without one and using a 'standard' 4K player.
I moved from a Panasonic Plasma (last production model) to an LG OLED. Let me assure you, you will notice a difference. I thought the Blacks on the Plasma were good. The blacks on the OLED are so inky good, they put a LED on it to let you know when the set is off!
I was surprised and disappointed by the Oppo news. I was thinking of updating my 65" Panasonic 1080p plasma to an LG 65" OLED model since the price has dropped to below $1,500 at an online retailer (TVSuperstore.com I think). I was planning on updating my current Oppo 105 to the $1,400 4K Oppo 205 at the same time but noticed many retailers were low or out of stock on the 205. I just thought I'd need to wait for resupplies, not realizing the shortage was a precursor of Oppo dropping out of the market and ceasing production. However, nonoise's linked article on 'Universal Disk Players' explaining Oppo's likely reasoning for ceasing production makes a lot of sense to me. You never know, Oppo may decide to participate again in the market with a player based on future technological advancements that cannot currently be predicted. I'd likely not hesitate to buy one based on my experiences with the Oppo 105 and their well deserved brand reputation for excellence. I've become a big fan of Oppo since buying the 105 a few years ago. I have taken advantage of many of the 105's varied and outstanding capabilities: Bluray/SACD/CD/DVD-A player, DAC, streaming music and hi-res computer audio player, high-quality preamp, Netflix streamer/player and as a 5.1 surround sound processor.
Oppo's decision has actually forced me to take a step back and access my current combination 2-ch audio and ht system. I realized I'm very pleased with the performance levels of both for at least several more years. My plasma and 105, although only providing 1080p resolution, are in like-new condition and are functioning flawlessly for my current needs. Just like most of us, however, I'm not immune from the lure of the latest technology or just change itself and obtaining something new that can be enjoyed daily. I know OLED is very good and 4K is superior to 1080p but I'm less sure the difference will be clearly visible to me from my viewing position about 12-14 feet away. Now, the HDR10 and Dolby Vision probably are clearly improvements. Perhaps I'm just getting older and wiser; I believe I'm getting wiser but I'm absolutely certain I'm getting older. So, I'm going to rationalize and choose to believe that Oppo has done me a favor by no longer offering the 205. I'll try and resist the silly upgrade urges for now and just await more meaningful upgrade options to come as technology marches forward.
@nonoise i Second the thanks for that article. I bought a 203 the day Oppo made their announcement and moved my 105 from my two channel system to my HT, where it replaced multiple machines.
Good point @elizabeth as it may well be a combination of the two with the article's point being the main one (since this was decided some time ago) and yours a contributing factor. Anyone over there can simply buy up and take over the very same product and continue making them under a different name.
The more astute here will ferret out who's making them next.
"While certainly not privy to the meetings at Oppo, after a
multi-decade career in technology I can well imagine how it went down.
On the conference room screen the PowerPoint slide shows a graph with
time as its horizontal axis and $/Renminbi on the vertical. One data
line is labeled 'Development and Support Costs' and is trending sharply
up as complexity on top of complexity is heaped onto the platforms. A
second data line is labeled 'Annual Player Sales'; alas it trends down
over time.
Once those curves cross no amount of passion to build exquisite players will save the day."
jerrygarcia"owned by Gibson/ going thru bankrupcy"
You should get you're facts straight Oppo has nothing at all to do with Gibson Guitar in any way and never did have anything to do with them you are just speculating from a little world of fantasy and confusion.
Staying in business always was, and always will be the first rule of business.
Oppo cannot continue hemorrhaging money making high-end audio disc players players, DAC, etc. Factories like theirs are set up for commodity production. The minuscule HEA market sits on the opposite side of that
Check the older threads for all the speculation. On an aside, I signed up for notification for the next, and last batch of OPPO 203s to arrive, and when the email came, I waited until the next day to buy one and they were sold out. Oh well.
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