I was surprised and disappointed by the Oppo news. I was thinking of updating my 65" Panasonic 1080p plasma to an LG 65" OLED model since the price has dropped to below $1,500 at an online retailer (TVSuperstore.com I think).
I was planning on updating my current Oppo 105 to the $1,400 4K Oppo 205 at the same time but noticed many retailers were low or out of stock on the 205. I just thought I'd need to wait for resupplies, not realizing the shortage was a precursor of Oppo dropping out of the market and ceasing production. However, nonoise's linked article on 'Universal Disk Players' explaining Oppo's likely reasoning for ceasing production makes a lot of sense to me.
You never know, Oppo may decide to participate again in the market with a player based on future technological advancements that cannot currently be predicted. I'd likely not hesitate to buy one based on my experiences with the Oppo 105 and their well deserved brand reputation for excellence.
I've become a big fan of Oppo since buying the 105 a few years ago. I have taken advantage of many of the 105's varied and outstanding capabilities: Bluray/SACD/CD/DVD-A player, DAC, streaming music and hi-res computer audio player, high-quality preamp, Netflix streamer/player and as a 5.1 surround sound processor.
Oppo's decision has actually forced me to take a step back and access my current combination 2-ch audio and ht system. I realized I'm very pleased with the performance levels of both for at least several more years. My plasma and 105, although only providing 1080p resolution, are in like-new condition and are functioning flawlessly for my current needs.
Just like most of us, however, I'm not immune from the lure of the latest technology or just change itself and obtaining something new that can be enjoyed daily.
I know OLED is very good and 4K is superior to 1080p but I'm less sure the difference will be clearly visible to me from my viewing position about 12-14 feet away. Now, the HDR10 and Dolby Vision probably are clearly improvements.
Perhaps I'm just getting older and wiser; I believe I'm getting wiser but I'm absolutely certain I'm getting older. So, I'm going to rationalize and choose to believe that Oppo has done me a favor by no longer offering the 205. I'll try and resist the silly upgrade urges for now and just await more meaningful upgrade options to come as technology marches forward.
Tim |
Hi prpixel,
I bought my last generation Panasonic VT60 series plasma knowing they were ceasing production of plasmas due to the costs of 4K upgrades likely pricing any of their prospective new model 4K hdtvs out of the market. It still puts a smile on my face every time I turn it on.
I've viewed the LG 65" B7 4K OLED at a local A/V shop and completely agree with you about the inky blacks that, along with the new HDR10 and Dolby vision for more vivid colors, produces excellent contrast for a truly stunning picture quality; undoubtedly the best picture I've ever seen.
I know the LG OLD would put a smile on my face every day, too, especially at $1,350. Now you've done it, made me reconsider my decision and got me thinking of moving the Panasonic to my bedroom. Cut it out!
The only thing holding me back now is the issues caused by pairing the 4K LG with my 1080p Oppo 105. I'd need to find a reasonably priced 205 since I need the hi-res DAC, 5.1 surround processing and 4K content playback the Oppo provides.
The Oppo's become such an integral part of my AV system that I now can't envision doing without one and using a 'standard' 4K player.
You've got me waffling,
Tim
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Hello prpixel,
Remember what Groucho Marx said about small clubs?
'I don't want to be a part of any club that would have me as a member.'
You made a lot of good points in your last post and I agree we're all part of a small club that is likely dwindling.
We're certainly in the midst of a transitional period currently; away from physical media and toward streaming and downloads. I realized this a few yrs ago and invested in a computer audio system (laptop running JRiver Media Center, Synology NAS with a 2 TB hard drive, Seagate 2 TB backup hard drive and the Oppo 105 as the DAC and digital player,). My entire CD collection has been ripped to the NAS and playback is controlled by my laptop. Definite progress since it's like having a high quality digital jukebox in your home.
I've also begun downloading several hi-res 24 bit/96 khz music as WAV and FLAC files. I'm clearly able to hear the improvement in noise levels, dynamic range, detail levels and the resultant more realistic sound stage illusion that 24/96 provides over 16bit/44khz CDs.
However, I've found that the key to excellent hi-res music file performance is the files history Music files recorded direct to 24/96 digital, as opposed to simple digital copies to 24/96 of the original analog master tapes, sound significantly better to me on my system. I find improvements in sound performance of 24/96 copies of analog masters, when compared to CD copies of the same content, to be much less noticeable.
I intentionally want to keep my post short because I think we may be veering off topic a bit and I don't want the OP to think we're hi-jacking his thread on subs. Anyone interested in continuing off-topic discussions is probably best served by starting a separate new thread on the topic of their choice.
Thanks,
Tim
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"
I intentionally want to keep my post short because I think we may be veering off topic a bit and I don't want the OP to think we're hi-jacking his thread on subs. Anyone interested in continuing off-topic discussions is probably best served by starting a separate new thread on the topic of their choice."
My mistake, I thought I was responding on another thread.
Yes, I feel like an idiot and am more than a bit embarrassed.
My only excuse is I have a brain the size of a small walnut.
Please disregard,
Tim |
"
In TYPICAL business model, I would expect to make profits as long as you can until it's no longer profitable, as opposed to get a jump on it. "In the future, we won't make profits so we are stopping now"..?? Does anyone buy that? "
Hello basement,
I buy it and agree with prpixel and jag.
For a business, there are numerous factors, and permutations of factors, that need to be considered prior to making a decision as critical as ceasing production and exiting the market.
It's never as simple as just making profits as long as you can until it's no longer profitable. A well run business is more concerned with past, current and future projections of sales, costs and profit margins. The current and projected profit margin (sales price less costs usually measured as a % of sales price) and sales volume are the determining factors when deciding whether they are going to continue making a specific product, not just whether they are going to make a profit.
A large company like Oppo needs to constantly evaluate their return on investments to ensure they're allocating their assets wisely, optimizing profits and taking advantage of opportunities that may exist in manufacturing alternative products. Satisfying the wants or needs of a relatively small niche market is of much lesser import.
It's Capitalism at work but it does create a vacuum in the market that may be filled by another company (Cambridge?) that views is as an opportunity if the numbers make sense..
Tim
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"
Asians think in terms of decades, Americans about 4-5 months tops."
I think a more accurate statement is that Chinese and Russian communist governments tend to think in terms of 5 and 10 year plans and that capitalists tend to think in terms of as many years as possible while still having faith in the reliability of their projection models.
Tim |
Hi basement,
I'm not certain how well the Oppo 205 was selling prior to the announcement but supplies seemed to be low, with the price rising substantially for still available units, almost immediately after the announcement. No surprise there but I don't think Oppo was overly concerned about not selling all their remaining units.
I agree with you that the top Oppo models have been excellent performers for years and occupy a unique segment in the blu-ray player market; high-end audio and video performance, playback of almost any silver disc type, excellent dacs, very good surround processing of music and ht, 4k video upscaling and streamer/player for all digital sources and files from CD 16/44 to DSD. A hi-end jack of all trades for an affordable original price of $1,400.
I also agree that they don't appear to be a company on the way out. I think what we're witnessing is a very competent company, that has made a decision for their unknown specific reasons to exit the market at the top of their game, exiting the market in a very competent manner. No excessive remaining unsold inventory and one planned final production run to satisfy remaining demand and maximize profits.
I too hate to see them go but I did signup fairly early on their website for notification once the final production run of 205s are available for purchase.
I'd like to be more assured I'll be able to buy one of these final 205s so I'm going to inquire if prepayment to reserve one is an available option.
I'm also a bit concerned about whether the 205 will function just as well as my 105 has while just adding 4K video playback. But I'm going to start a new thread asking for assistance on this today. Any assistance from those on this thread that already own, or are knowledgeable about, the 205 will be definitely welcomed and appreciated.
Thanks
Tim |
"
A 203 for 4K video plus a 105 for audio and video streaming is good combination. A used 105 + a new 203 cost the same as a new 205."
Hello junzhang,
Interesting idea that may work well in my system since I already own a 105 and would just need the 203 along with, of course, a 4K hdtv and some additional cabling.
I'm just confused about how to hook this all up.
Seriously,
Could you please explain exactly how I would hook this up?
Off the top of my head, I think it would require the 203 to have separate video and audio HDMI or digital outputs. Does the 203 have this capability?
Thanks,
Tim |
"I'd be curious how many people have a dual-use system for both HT and 2-channel music though. I have my 2-channel rig in a separate room from the HT, and I don't do any music listening in the HT room."
Hello tutetibimperes,
I have a dual use system for both ht and 2-ch music in my living room. The Oppo 105 is the device that makes it all possible. I'm not sure how common this is.
For 2-ch music, I use the 105 and a 2 TB NAS (containing my entire CD collection as 16/44 files and a growing number of 24/96 FLAC files that were recorded direct to digital) with both connected via ethernet cables to my Xfinity cable router/modem. I use a wireless laptop running JRiver to control playback from the NAS and streaming audio sites. The 105 is used as a preamp and DAC for these functions with the main l+r stereo analog outputs connected directly to my mono-blocks via XLR cables.
For ht, I use the 105 to playback 1080p Bluray discs and stream content from Netflix, Amazon Prime and Xfinity on Demand. I use the 105's internal surround processor with the analog 5.1 surround channel outputs connected directly to separate amps via rca cables.
I was considering getting the Oppo 205 and a 4K OLED hdtv when I heard about Oppo getting out of the market. I was thinking I could just swap out the 105 with the 205 and things would function just as well as they do with the 105 but have the added benefits of 4K , HDR10 and Dolby Vision . I now understand that even if I manage to buy a 205, I'll need to buy some added hardware to have things operate as well with the 4K 205 as they have with the 1080p 105.
Now, I'm starting to realize I may be better off just being satisfied with my 1080p 105 and plasma hdtv. I know the 4K is unlikely to be a significant improvement for me due to my 12-14 ft. viewing distance. The main benefits I'll perceive are improved colors with the new HDR10 and Dolby Vision mostly with future content. However, I'll be sacrificing audio quality and convenience by using the 205 unless I Jerry-rig some extra hardware to my system.
So, I need to determine whether to spend about $3,000 on an Oppo 205, 65" LG B7 OLED hdtv and a Roku or similar device for improved color reproduction and keeping my current functionality with streaming music and video OR keep the $3K,remain satisfied with a 1080p 105 and plasma for another 5-10 yrs and await the next technological breakthroughs in audio/video reproduction.
I'm seriously leaning toward the latter option right now.
Tim
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Hi ozzy,
I agree that the niche market Oppo sells to would still buy the 205 if they raised the price by $500, I know I would.
But I don't think $500 more profit per unit would have any affect on their decision.to cease production. I suspect Oppo perceived a lot of instability and uncertainty in the abundant and crucial technology incorporated within their players. This uncertainty involves factors such as the near term future of various physical media and of the licensing agreements, resolution and consistent updating of the various audio/video streaming services and codecs.
It was likely a decision mainly based on the projected financial returns of investing and producing a more stable alternative product with a more predictable near term future and costs that are not trending upwards.
Tim
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Ozzy,
You summed up my thoughts on Oppo perfectly:
"Great products and great customer support, what more could we ask for?"
I would just add "all at an affordable price".
RIP Oppo, you will be missed.
Tim
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angelwars and jb0194,
Yes, the combining in one high quality component of the ability to play most physical discs with the ability to convert and play back digital streaming and stored files at a variety of resolutions is what has made the top Oppo and Cambridge players so extraordinary, useful and valuable.
For about 3 years now, I've been utilizing my Oppo 105 just as you have your 205 and CXU without any hiccups. Excellent universal components with outstanding sound quality.
I had just made the decision to upgrade to the 205 for its 4K video and likely even better audio performance abilities when I heard Oppo had decided to cease production and leave the market.. Awful timing.
Hopefully, some enterprising audio/video companies will view Oppo's exit from this market as an opportunity and will develop/produce some products to fill the void. I know Cambridge still offers some re-badged Oppo models but I suspect those will probably be going away once current inventory is depleted.
I agree with angelwars that file based downloaded and streamed audio/video is likely only to continue to grow as the content delivery method of choice.
I hope, in the near future, there will be a significant increase in content recorded direct to a hi-res digital format since this is the biggest determinant of the highest quality playback sound in my system that I've discovered thus far. The typical method of transferring the original analog master recording to h-res digital results in very good playback quality but, in my opinion and experience, content recorded direct to hi-res digital is clearly and consistently superior.
Tim
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