Why is Oppo stopping products.

You're responding to a thread that's been dead for over four years.
It could be that.

Trying to understand why with the oppo bluray drives? If you have a great preamp/processor/AVR with ESS DAC , why would I need oppo?not following

angelwars and jb0194,

     Yes, the combining in one high quality component of the ability to play most physical discs with the ability to convert and play back digital streaming and stored files at a variety of resolutions is what has made the top Oppo and Cambridge players so extraordinary, useful and valuable.

     For about 3 years now,  I've been utilizing my Oppo 105 just as you have your 205 and CXU without any hiccups.  Excellent universal components with outstanding sound quality.  
     I had just made the decision to upgrade to the 205 for its 4K video and likely even better audio performance abilities when I heard Oppo had decided to cease production and leave the market.. Awful timing.

     Hopefully, some enterprising audio/video companies will view Oppo's exit from this market as an opportunity and will develop/produce some products to fill the void.  I know Cambridge still offers some re-badged Oppo models but I suspect those will probably be going away once current inventory is depleted.
     I agree with angelwars that file based downloaded and streamed audio/video is likely only to continue to grow as the content delivery method of choice.  
     I hope, in the near future, there will be a significant increase in content recorded direct to a hi-res digital format since this is the biggest determinant of the highest quality playback sound in my system that I've discovered thus far.  The typical method of transferring the original analog master recording to h-res digital results in very good playback quality but, in my opinion and experience, content recorded direct to hi-res digital is clearly and consistently superior.

Tim

FWIW, I have been using my Oppo 205 as a Roon player for a couple of weeks now without a single hiccup. I output into a Naim 5si integrated. Great sound. The 205’s universal format disc capability is a nice backup feature, as I saved about 700 of my favorite cds in two cloth “carrier/storage” cases. A QNAP TS251+ NAS with maxed RAM runs Roon core fine. 

File based audio/video is the way to go whether downloaded or streamed. Less plastic, cardboard, transportation & delivery -  stuff we just don't need in this world. These universal blu-ray players are the best and simplest audio/visual processors that have multichannel DAC capability so their demise is not good. I've got a Cambridge CXU and I'm glad it's still working fine.

@wolf_garcia 

You joke, but in the 50's and 60's there were actually record players for cars.  

-----

I do occasionally miss playing vinyl.  I really liked my Linn Sondek, CJ Sonographe and Ariston.  However, I don't miss the Delphi Oracle MK4.  It was sooo finicky and prone to vibration.  I remember spending a lot more time setting up to play a side than it actually took to play a side.  After dropping the stylus, I would tip toe over to the listening chair and very gentle sit down.  I eventually purchased a very heavy Rockport TT stand.  Flooring was subfloor over concrete slab.  The next step was to tear up the floor and re-do it; I wasn't going there.

BTW - Delphi still makes their reference CD turntables.  

I need a turntable for my car...tube preferably...I now hear CDs are going to have a revival like vinyl, and be the "next big thing."

@prpixel  Wow, impressive! But I'll keep tweeking my vinyl, thanks.  

@vpi ,

I was responding to @wolf_garcia  post about in-dash CD Players no longer being installed in new cars.  While I have a decent sound system in the car, I realize that it is not an ideal listening environment.   I have Bluetooth 5.0 capability in the car and in my phone, so it can handle my 24/192 Lossless FLAC files with no problem.  My point was that constantly loading and unloading discs/disc changers was a real PITA.  

As for using my phone as a playback device, it has an ESS SabreDAC ES9218P D/A converter that supports 32/384 and DSD256.  For IEM's I use JH Audio Layla's and Campfire Audio Vega's.  At the gym I use Periodic Audio Be's.  I have a very,very, very large memory card plus the internal storage for my music.  It makes a great portable rig for the gym, waiting rooms, grocery shopping or just chilling in the back yard enjoying nature.  I don't own any earbud thingy's.

I do have a dedicated listening room.  It was tuned/designed by Rives Audio.  Speakers are ML Summit X's which are soon to be replaced with ML Renaissance 15A's.  I own both an Oppo 105D and a 203.  I was going to order a 205, but just cant justify it.

I watch about two movies a week on Blu-ray, and two movies a month on UHD-Bluray.  I never spin CD's anymore.  New music purchases are either downloaded or ripped and then transferred to the music server and phone.  I have a whole plethora of music streaming devices. 

I too moorn the loss of Oppo.  I too agree that they made great players and a very good price point.  

Less and less people are buying/renting video disc every year.  Less than 4% of Netflix subscribers still get discs in the mail.  Best Buy and Target are drastically parring down the number of CD's they carry.  Best Buy is having a hard time moving $79 UHD-Bluray players.  Let's face it, Disc Spinners are a dying breed.  I really enjoyed the tweekie nature of vinyl and reading the jackets and liner notes; I never developed that romanticism  with CD's.

Hope this clarifies things.
All the best,



 

I've owned 3 Oppo players over the years.  Like many of the posters here, when I upgraded the Oppo in my music only system, I'd move the older model to my HT system.  (The two systems are completely separate.). I currently run a BDP 83 in the video system and a BDP 95 in my music system.  I stopped upgrading Oppo units when they reduced the number of chips from the 95 to the 103 and I discovered Esoteric.  Yes, at a much higher price, but the entry level Esoteric K-07 bests every Oppo I have ever heard.  My BDP 103 is now relegated to streaming through the DAC in my Esoteric.

While we all mourn the loss of Oppo, I believe what Oppo failed to do was a huge loss to those of us in the audiophile community.  With Oppo's technical expertise and lower cost Chinese manufacturing facilities they could have built a CD/SACD player to compete with the Esoterics and Accuphases of the world at a fraction of the price.  I'm not enough of an economist to know if the added revenue from such an endeavor would have allowed Oppo to to continue longer.  I think not.  Let's not overlook the added pressure placed on the silver disc market by the resurgence in vinyl.

At it's price point Oppo equipment was top of the line.  Great build quality and unsurpassed customer service.  

P.S. @prpixel  I'm sure your phone, and automobile head unit provide you with great background music.  However, for serious two channel music one needs more than earbuds and a car radio can provide. Oppo provided that to thousands of music lovers at a reasonable price for many years. 

Wolf,

I have over 3000 CD's, In FLAC on my Phone, all which are playable through the head unit in the car.  Why would we want to go back to the days of in-dash CD's players or truck mounted Changers; they were a pain in the ass.  I no longer have to worry about Jewel cases and alphabetizing my CD's to make them easy to find.  I now have my entire library in my pocket and I can listening to it anywhere.  

Pretty soon, the same will be true of Video.  That's why OPPO got out when it did.

^The Sony UBP-1000Xes has analog outputs, though only via RCAs. It’s available through Best Buy’s Magnolia department. I haven’t any experience with it. The few Magnlolia’s I visited either only had static displays or connected via HDMI, and none seemed interested in connecting via analog output for audition. Stereophile gave the Sony’s predecessor a luke warm recommendation. WhatHiFi gave the current X1000 a solid recommendation, especially for sound. I would be most curious to read others thoughts on it.

I have an OPPO BDP-83 SE which has performed flawlessly for years.  I bought the SE (Special Edition) because of its upgraded analog audio section and I want the OPPO USP-205 for the same reasons.  Even more, because it now uses a linear power supply instead of the inferior switch mode power supply that is in the 83SE.  I remain a two channel audio dinosaur by choice and I know of no other DVD player that has analog out ports.
I am one of those that tried to buy from Magnolia and missed out because they oversold their inventory.  Of course I immediately signed up with OPPO and am practically praying they will make that last production run.  I could almost justify buying two, the second one at my computer as a DAC for both computer sound and streaming as it is UPnP capable, though I would use the SPDIF optical port instead, which I am told offers much better audio than USB.  

I have an '09 BMW that does have a CD player, and a new MINI Turbo that does not...weirdly, nobody in the car industry asked me if it's OK to bag CD players in cars, as I would have said, "Hell no." 

Ozzy,

     You summed up my thoughts on Oppo perfectly:
"Great products and great customer support, what more could we ask for?"

     I would just add "all at an affordable price".

RIP Oppo, you will be missed.
 
Tim  

noble100,

I'm sure your right, but it is really a shame. Great products and great customer support, what more could we ask for?

ozzy

Hi ozzy,

     I agree that the niche market Oppo sells to would still buy the 205 if they raised the price by $500, I know I would.  
     But I don't think $500 more profit per unit would have any affect on their decision.to cease production.   I suspect Oppo perceived a lot of instability and uncertainty in the abundant and crucial technology incorporated within their players.   This uncertainty involves factors such as the near term future of various physical media and of the licensing agreements, resolution and consistent updating of the various audio/video streaming services and codecs.   
     It was likely a decision mainly based on the projected financial returns of investing and producing a more stable alternative product with a more predictable near term future and costs that are not trending upwards.
Tim

To me, if Oppo raised the price of the 205 even $500 more they would still sell well to the niche market that they appeal to.

ozzy

HI guys, OPPO is a Chinese company that makes cell phones (not sold in the USA).  They are a huge company and Audio to them was just a side business.  They have elected to focus on their other business which make them more money.  It is that simple.  To many competitors in the audio markets.  Hope this helps.  They are going to continue to service their product lines while the parts last.  Probably no more software updates.

"I'd be curious how many people have a dual-use system for both HT and 2-channel music though. I have my 2-channel rig in a separate room from the HT, and I don't do any music listening in the HT room."

Hello tutetibimperes,

     I have a dual use system for both ht and 2-ch music in my living room.  The Oppo 105 is the device that makes it all possible.  I'm not sure how common this is.

     For 2-ch music, I use the 105 and a 2 TB NAS (containing my entire CD collection as 16/44 files and a growing number of 24/96 FLAC files that were recorded direct to digital) with both connected via ethernet cables to my Xfinity cable router/modem.   I use a wireless laptop running JRiver to control playback from the NAS and streaming audio sites.  The 105 is used as a preamp and DAC for these functions with the main l+r  stereo analog outputs connected directly to my mono-blocks via XLR cables.
     For ht, I use the 105 to playback 1080p Bluray discs and stream content from Netflix, Amazon Prime and Xfinity on Demand.  I use the 105's internal surround processor with the analog 5.1 surround channel outputs connected directly to separate amps via rca cables.  

     I was considering getting the Oppo 205 and a 4K OLED hdtv when I heard about Oppo getting out of the market.  I was thinking I could just swap out the 105 with the 205 and things would function just as well as they do  with the 105 but have the added benefits of 4K , HDR10 and Dolby Vision .  I now understand that even if I manage to buy a 205, I'll need to buy some added hardware to have things operate as well with the 4K 205 as they have with the 1080p 105.
     Now, I'm starting to realize I may be better off just being satisfied with my 1080p 105 and plasma hdtv.  I know the 4K is unlikely to be a significant improvement for me due to my 12-14 ft. viewing distance.  The main benefits I'll perceive are improved colors with the new HDR10 and Dolby Vision mostly with future content.  However,  I'll be sacrificing audio quality and convenience by using the 205 unless I Jerry-rig some extra hardware to my system.
      So, I need to determine whether to spend about $3,000 on an Oppo 205, 65" LG B7 OLED hdtv and a Roku or similar device for improved color reproduction and keeping my current functionality with streaming music and video   OR     keep the $3K,remain satisfied with a 1080p 105 and plasma for another 5-10 yrs and  await the next technological breakthroughs in audio/video reproduction.

    I'm seriously leaning toward the latter option right now.

Tim

Yes, I am in dual use mode for my system, all output from 103 exits thru analog output jacks. Using the 103 for D/A conversion makes sense for my system and I like the way it sounds... This has also given me opportunity to compare 103 in two channel setting with my dac and modded transport etc.OPPO gear is worth the money they are asking.

They sent me an email basically asking me to commit to the purchase of a new TOTL DVD player. I waited a while and email back agreeing to purchase.

T,

Looks like you're right.  ATV 4k can output 16/44.1 if audio quality is set to "best".  Otherwise, everything is mixed to DD.  I'll have to do some more research on my Roku, but I think it's similar to ATV.  The Nvidia shield does to hi-res over HDMI.  I'll have to look into that.  Thanks for the heads up.

J,

Thanks, but the 105 is not in the same room room as my computer.  

@prpixel 

The Apple TV can decode CD quality audio (16 bit 44.1khz PCM) (and I believe the nVidia shield will as well if the app support it) and at least the nVidia Shield can 'pass through' lossless surround formats (DTS-MA and Dolby TrueHD) though you need a processor on the other end to decode the signal.  Apple just announced enhancements to the AppleTV 4K this past week including Dolby Atmos support, right now it doesn't seem clear whether that's going to be true uncompressed Atmos or Atmos in a DD+ container though.  

I'd be curious how many people have a dual-use system for both HT and 2-channel music though.  I have my 2-channel rig in a separate room from the HT, and I don't do any music listening in the HT room.  

205 can be used as USB DAC if you hook computer. You should grab a 205 from their last run even if you have a 105.

Tutetibiimperes,

Yes, agreed.  The problem with all these little streaming boxes is they don't support any kind of hi-res audio or even CD quality audio.  All these boxes boxes down-sample to DD, DD+ or Dolby Atmos; these are all compressed formats.  They don't even give you the option of 2 channel uncompressed stereo.  As Junzhang10 points out, the 105 supports hi-res audio from some streaming sites/services.  The 103 supported some of those sites/services also.

So the perfect combination:

• A Roku, AppleTV, FireTV for everyday Video streaming
• 4k Blu-ray player for Best Video/Audio quality from physical media
• A dedicated audio streaming device for audio streaming from services and local sources.  Play-Fi and a few others support 24/192.
• Oppo 105 or a computer for those few sites that support hi-res Audio and Video.

I have a 105, 203, Play-Fi and Roku.  Unfortunately, they are not all in the same system.  I so want all these features in one box.  I know it's not really practical and would probably be compromised. 

" A 203 for 4K video plus a 105 for audio and video streaming is good combination. A used 105 + a new 203 cost the same as a new 205."

Hello junzhang,

     Interesting idea that may work well in my system since I already own a 105 and would just need the 203 along with, of course, a 4K hdtv and some additional cabling.
     I'm just confused about how to hook this all up.

     Seriously,
             Could you please explain exactly how I would hook this up?
      Off the top of my head, I think it would require the 203 to have separate video and audio HDMI or digital outputs.  Does the 203 have this capability?
 Thanks,
  Tim

A 203 for 4K video plus a 105 for audio and video streaming is good combination. A used 105 + a new 203 cost the same as a new 205.

@prpixel 

The way I look at it you should get the best device to perform the function that you're looking for it to accomplish.  Let the disc player be the best disc player it can be, and for apps get the best streaming box you can, whether that be a Roku, Apple TV, nVidia Shield, Fire TV, or whatever else your preference is.  Any of the dedicated streaming boxes will give you a much better experience than the built-in apps on a disc player, and all of the major companies offer streaming boxes with 4K HDR support these days.  

Jeffery,

I spoke to Oppo about the reasoning for dropping the apps.  First, it was a challenge to try to keep them up to date.  The other issue was the licensing fees.  They didn't think that most people really used the apps all that much and it wasn't worth the hassle and expense.  They actually recommended that I buy a Roku.  I picked up a Roku Premiere+ for streaming duties.  It's OK, but the audio quality is disappointing. Roku does do a good job of supporting the device and keeping things up to date.  

Most TV and Blu-ray manufacturers only support the built in apps for a few years anyway.  After that, you end of purchasing a Roku anyway.  Someone goes out and buys a $10000 TV and three years later you tell them that they have to strap a $100 Roku to it for Netflix and they look at you like you're crazy.  It's either that, it toss your TV and buy a new one.  

Sad to see them go, I purchased my first product from them, a UDP-203, and I’ve been very happy with it.  I bought mine as soon as it was released based on their reputation.  

On the bright side the Panasonic players have been reviewed as being as good as the Oppos when it comes to video quality.  As far as audio goes, as long as it has HDMI one should be as good as any other and you just rely on your AVR to handle the DAC stuff.  

For those that were using them in 2-channel systems there may not be easy answers for replacements though. 

I’m surprised they shut down the whole audio electronics side though, headphones and DACs are a booming business, and the Oppo headphones were well regarded. 

@prpixel , IMO, I  believe OPPO dropped streaming apps on 203/205 players because getting firmware updates into the apps themselves was technically challenging and or had to many copyright laws. When using a Roku 4 with 103, I found the Netflix/Pandora apps on OPPO to be older versions, and Roku 4 performed better.

Hi basement,

     I'm not certain how well the Oppo 205 was selling prior to the announcement but supplies seemed to be low, with the price rising substantially for still available units, almost immediately after the announcement.  No surprise there but I don't think Oppo was overly concerned about not selling all their remaining units.
     I agree with you that the top Oppo models have been excellent performers for years and occupy a unique segment in the blu-ray player market; high-end audio and video performance, playback of almost any silver disc type, excellent dacs, very good surround processing of music and ht, 4k video upscaling and streamer/player for all digital sources and files from CD 16/44 to DSD.  A hi-end jack of all trades for an affordable original price of $1,400.  
     I also agree that they don't appear to be a company on the way out.  I think what we're witnessing is a very competent company, that has made a decision for their unknown specific reasons to exit the market at the top of their game, exiting the market in a very competent manner.  No excessive remaining unsold inventory and one planned final production run to satisfy remaining demand and maximize profits.
     I too hate to see them go but I did signup fairly early on their website for notification once the final production run of 205s are available for purchase. 
     I'd like to be more assured I'll be able to buy one of these final 205s so I'm going to inquire if prepayment to reserve one is an available option.
     I'm also a bit concerned about whether the 205 will function just as well as my 105 has while just adding 4K video playback.  But I'm going to start a new thread asking for assistance on this today. Any assistance from those on this thread that already own, or are knowledgeable about, the 205 will be definitely welcomed and appreciated.

Thanks
Tim 

Basement,

Call Oppo.  

BTW - Just got off the phone with my Oppo Dealer.  He told me he was selling about 1 Unit/month.  Then Oppo made the announcement and he couldn't get enough of them.  

Also, I've heard through the grapevine that the Cambridge Audio CXUHD was using the same MediaTek platform/parts as the Oppo 203.  The CXUHD does not have analog outputs.  If you look at the two players, they look very similar.  I have not verified this with CA.

Sony has the UDB-X1000ES for $699 which is based on the Sony UDP-x800 at $299 retail.

I don't disagree with my dissenters on business models, but I disagree with the facts. 

I accept the possibility I could be wrong, but it does seem to me the were selling before the announcement. Now, if they WERE sitting on the shelves and dealers had too many, then my whole argument goes out the window. 

Further, just my opinion mind you, they were an easy sell. As far as I know, they were they only high end(ish) video player on the market, priced right between consumer disposables and high end (accessible to  anyone) and really easy to choose because you can plug them in any way, with any number of better components. 

Didn't look like a company on the way out, or in trouble in any way. 

Regarding "behind the scenes", trade war stuff and such, maybe? Stuff that we learn about usually exist BEFORE we learn about it. 

Jeffrey,

Yes, if ISP’s start throttling/blocking competitors the whole streaming thing could go belly up. Then we would have a few years of market disruption before a new way of listening/purchasing music/movies would evolve. Even radio would be effected by this. We’ve become so depending on the internet it’s scary to think of it going away. Could you imagine having to make the decision between listening to the latest Favorite Musician tune or paying your Visa bill? Oh god, we would have to go back to writing and mailing checks and letters. No, stop, the horror! Excuse me, I need to get a frosty beverage.

I don’t like to speculate or assume anything, so when I see something I don’t understand, I pickup the phone or fire off an email.

Audiostick,

When I spoke to them, they said they had enough money in the bank to do another production run of players. Then, because disc players are moving so slow, they would have to wait a year or two or more to sell them. During that time, they would have to hope enough players sold each month to to make expenses. Or they could take that money, downsize the operation, and keep their current customers happy, and their remaining employees paid, for the next three years.

To be honest, when the Oppo 4K players were announced, I called up my dealer and said "I’m excited, put me on the list for one." And then, when they started to ship, I found out that there were no streaming apps. I was using some of those apps in my current player, and was disappointed about that. I spoke briefly with my Oppo dealer about this. And then, I drug my feet for about 6 months before I actually purchased the player. I wonder if I’m just a little responsible for this mess.

I’m sad to see Oppo close it’s doors. Over the years I’ve seen many audio companies that I liked come and go. I’ve spoke on the phone with many of them, met them at shows and dealers, and made some friends. When I look at what’s left of High End Audio, I just want to cry. Life move’s on, things change, learn to deal with it.

Mirolab,

You're hearing about it after the Trade War started.  The decision was made months ago.  When I purchased my Unit about 6 months ago, my Dealer actually hinted at it.  I had called to purchase a Subwoofer, and he said "If you're still on the fence about the Oppo, you better make your decision soon while I can still get product."  I ordered the Oppo later that day.

The timing is VERY suspicious.... just weeks into the "trade war" and Oppo dumps its California design team into the Pacific...... both my Oppo players have labeled on the back "Oppp Digital, California, USA".... but of course somewhere else it says made in China.  It seems to me they are cutting some US ties. 

" Asians think in terms of decades, Americans about 4-5 months tops."

     I think a more accurate statement is that Chinese and Russian communist governments tend to think in terms of 5 and 10 year plans and that capitalists tend to think in terms of as many years as possible while still having faith in the reliability of their projection models.

Tim

Would that be Asians from the Indian subcontinent? Asian-Americans? Khmer? Thai? Hmong? Han Chinese?  

Most readers know (and you probably already know) how ridiculous your generalization is. 

Asians think in terms of decades, Americans about 4-5 months tops .

@audiostick, OPPO website has a working registration for 203/205 listed under product support.

@prpixel 

Actually, it appears that they are no longer taking names for the 203 or 205 since they no longer offer links to either on their website. Initially, they said June, and later August for an additional run of the 205. Being optimistic, I'd like to be believe that those of us who signed-up early might still see a unit in June from the first additional production run. You said you spoke with them twice in the last month, what did they tell you?

" In TYPICAL business model, I would expect to make profits as long as you can until it's no longer profitable, as opposed to get a jump on it. "In the future, we won't make profits so we are stopping now"..?? Does anyone buy that? "

Hello basement,

    I buy it and agree with prpixel and jag.
    For a business, there are numerous factors, and permutations of factors, that need to be considered prior to making a decision as critical as ceasing production and exiting the market.  
     It's never as simple as just making profits as long as you can until it's no longer profitable.  A  well run business is more concerned with past, current and future projections of sales, costs and profit margins.  The  current and projected profit margin (sales price less costs usually measured as a % of sales price) and sales volume are the determining factors when deciding whether they are going to continue making a specific product, not just whether they are going to make a profit.  
     A large company like Oppo needs to constantly evaluate their return on investments  to ensure they're allocating their assets wisely, optimizing profits and taking advantage of opportunities that may exist in manufacturing alternative products.  Satisfying the wants or needs of a relatively small niche market is of much lesser import.
    It's Capitalism at work but it does create a vacuum in the market that may be filled by another company (Cambridge?) that views is as an opportunity if the numbers make sense..  
Tim    

@elizabeth   +1
Net neutrality rules will formally expire on Monday allowing internet providers free reign to block any traffic content, throttle internet speeds against their competitors content, and accept money for favored treatment.  With prices for streaming video and music surely to rise if new rules are not repelled,  I do not see the streaming landscape as the stable platform that some of you are making it out to be.

the day of the disc is over.  more people downloading media or using streaming services.  Oppo could have stayed in the game by producing a excellent streamer/DAC that could interface with existing NAS storage devices, but would offer the same excellent video and audio playback and support that Oppo that has been Oppo's trademark.

Basement,

Do you understand how much it cost to do a production run?  They have to order hundreds if not thousand(s) of the units from their supply.  Up until they made the announcement of their closing, they were not selling everything they made.  The only product that was hard to get was the Sonica DAC.  Dealers and Oppo were sitting on a lot of Disc Players.  The announcement caused a run on the 205's which sold out in about 10 days.  I'm going to guestimate that there where about 200+ 205's.  I know that about 30-50 were sold through Best Buy/Magnolia.

The cheaper 203's took about a month to sell out.  I'm assuming that there were more 203's available.  Sonica WiFi speakers are still available.  

The announcement motivated a lot of people that were sitting on the fence to finally make a purchase.

Oppo was loosing money over the last few years.  They were not selling enough product to cover their overhead (salaries, rent/mortgage, insurance, utilities, etc).

Ask yourself how many people do you know that own a 4k Blu-ray Player?  

Hey, if you don't believe what you read here, then call Oppo.  I've actually spoken to them twice in the last month; they've always been upfront and forthright.  

BTW - On google maps you can actually see the Oppo Facility.  Also, they are still taking reservations for 203's and 205's for a potential final run.