Why Don't More People Love Audio?

what does music and emotion have to do with so-called 'high end' audio? A person can experience emotion from listening to music on a boom box or table radio. Or even just humming a tune to yourself.

Some people are afraid of feeling emotions because then they are not in control of themselves. Other people do not have an emotional response to music so it does nothing for them.

There is definitely a different type of emotional component from listening to music that does not happen with other activities, like bungee jumping for example.

I suspect this sentiment has already been expressed, but as a neophyte audiophile (meaning, I am learning an audiophile appreciation for sound, but may or may not ever have the resources to support the hobby), high end audio is like a foreign language.

At the Capital Audio Fest last weekend, I had limited time, and didn't recognize enough names to even guess which rooms would be best to visit. And saying that, I've grown up with a Dad who is into vintage audio, so I understand some part of the audiophile world, but the names I recognize are often of companies that are no longer around, from a time when no one would have dreamed of spending thousands (or even hundreds) of dollars on cable.

My impression of newer audio is that it is very hard to access. The friends I know who are well off are all that way because they work hard, and they try to be knowledgable in their hobbies. The entry hurdle for even speaking the language of high-end audio is simple too esoteric to make it a good value equation for most people with lots of disposable income.

And music is a time-consuming hobby in and of itself. Collecting and keeping track of high-quality source material, plus then making the time to listen to it, especially time to listen without distractions, is almost unthinkable.

B&O exists because it succeeds in providing an upmarket product that is visually appealing, fits in with high-end decor, and sounds better than Bose--at least in in-store demos. It's also in place in the right kinds of shopping areas, that cater to other high-dollar shopping habits. It also takes very little time to understand, set up or enjoy.

At some point with wealth, convenience seems to be the trump card, and high-end audio is not convenient and certainly not quickly accessible.

Value,

If they can get the price down they can mass market it. But look how it is now. For the price of a high end computer Audiofites can't even buy one wire. The computer has 80% of the sound at 5% the price. If they said for double the price of the computer you could have ultimate sound. Somebody might go for it. But the way it is, double the price of a computer will barely by one component. And the Audiofites do not agree what that one component should be.

Because:
1) Doesn't increase their enjoyment of music.
or
2) Not a status symbol.

Well, lots of people love audio by definition, from the folks tapping their toes while on the train, white earbuds jammed in their heads, to people who drive around the block, because their favorite song is on the radio and only halfway done.

As to why don't more people love the hobby of audio, because it's a pain in the butt. It's expensive, maddening and the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow keeps moving.

Rich people want elegance and convenience, oftentimes. There are indeed rich folks who are totally into high end. But again, they tend to get stuff, and keep it. Done. I think most people understand that music is music, and reproduction is reproduction. Songs that make me cry, have that quality whether it's a download to my phone, or at home in the listening room.

It's that quality that makes most people say, why bother? It's all a question of what you're into. I'm a racing cyclist, who pedals in anger on a rig that, retail, would cost north of 10k. Why? It allows me to maximize my effort. For someone else, a $400 Trek hybrid bike is all they need.

It's the same with audio.

They are busy watching their home theatres in surround sound .

I think all of the last several posts are on target, namely that people have different tastes and passions. I guess this gets back to the question of why fewer are involved in high end audio reproduction. I expect several things are going on. One we are now a much older average age population now. Two, there are many other passions available now, such as video, gaming, digital picture and video taking, and involvement in social media.

I have two stories. Long ago I had a famous pianist friend and while at his house, I asked what his stereo system was like. He showed me a Webcor portable record player in his office. Seeing my amazement, he said he only listened for the performer's interpretation, not the music, which was all in his head.

Second story, my 16 year old grandson was listening to Pinky Floyd's Dark Side of the Moon on his Ipod. I heard it and asked him to come to my listening room where I played the record. He said it did not even sound like the same recording and was wowed. He asked if I had a drum record (he plays drums in a jazz group), I played one. And he exclaimed, that this was closer to what he heard when he played, but still wasn't there. After a while he left with his ear buds back in and playing music.

Different strokes for different folks. But I should say that he is now interested in having better speakers and audio in his room.

hi stthomas:

being able to hear the difference does not imply one will care, or spend money on audio equipment.

the issue is how important is availing oneself of excellence of sound or other aesthetic endeavors.

let me make an analogy.

suppose one has powers of discrimination when it comes to wine tasting. there is no guarantee that such a person will buy the "better" wine or even drink wine.

Sebrof:

Yours is most likely the correct explanation. Your comparison about the televisons was right on target. I have a 20+ year old TV because there is not a lot on the tube I want to see.

I love to watch sports, both in person and (mostly) on TV. But I could care less if it's on a big screen, Hi Def, etc. My friend has a big screen Hi Def surround system and now that I think of it he chides me because I have, and am perfectly happy with, my lo def 20" screen or whatever it is with the TV speakers. His super system really does nothing to enhance my experience.
Never really thought of it before, but I guess it's similar to what Dalecrommie describes about his friend (except for the highly intelligent and exceptional money parts).

'Why Don't More People Love Audio?'

Do you really have to ask? Just read this forum for a few days and then try to imagine what a newbie to audio would think.

A more precise question would be; why aren't more people obsessed with audio EQUIPMENT, TWEAKS and Accessories?

It is certainly puzzling, to say the least. I have a friend who I grew up with. We both love music in the recorded and live form. On a couple of occasions I have offered to do a demo at my house with a couple of speaker and amps types, but to no avail. He is fine plugging his iPod into his car stereo and listening to that. The same thing at home, Ipod into a tiny little planar speaker, and I mean tiny. We both started out on the same road in high school and college, with similar systems. Puzzling, especially as he is highly intelligent and makes exceptional money. I dunno, I just gave up. :)

Cause most people couldnt hear a difference between them unless the circumstances were extreme. I've been in the music industry for along time, and it never ceases to amaze me how many people can't hear music at all. Most wouldn't know clear from buzzy. Lossless from a low quality ripped mp3. And I won't even get into bright and warmth, and a smooth top to bottom speaker. This is from people who are in the recording/studio industry!!

If a person could tell the difference, they would spend the money. It's not a matter of rich vs poor IMO. Most people think Bose is still great, just because the marketing says so, and the fact there ears can't tell them otherwise.

Just my opinions

Of all the musicians, music fanatics, and recording industry people I know, none of them are into high end audio. I'm involved in a couple music forums, and some of the people there will go to huge lengths to acquire hard to get recordings, insisting that they are in lossless format, but have very modest systems. Most of them use the stock audio card on their computer and run of the mill stereos or computer speakers. They are uninterested in my occasional hi-fi ramblings. Unconvinced at what a difference an outboard DAC (even a cheap one) will make. The same seems to be true of most of my musician friends.

This to me blows away the argument that if people really put a priority on music, they'd appreciate hi-fi. Although some audiophiles may be music fans, hi-fi often becomes a means unto itself. And the music fanatics probably understand what a good system will do, but are content in that they don't need one to enjoy their music.

I agree with many of the fellow members and their various opinions. For the most part is more like the amount of investment you spend on any given component. when I mentioned one of my loudspeakers costing $5500 retail like my ohm walsh or any of my loudspeakers costing more then $2000 retail, they'd rather spend their money on something else. To them spending $1500 or more on a turntable is ridiculous or a cd player. Most people are happy with the mid fi mass market audio and video sold at your local stores or best buy, circuit city etc. Hardly anyone goes inside bestbuy's MAGNOLIA and buys anything. High end audio tends to drive people away because of the ultra high prices. What kind of people are going to spend $100k loudspeakers or more costing the price of a home? Even $30k, that's the price of japanese sports car. The price of high end audio especially ultra high end is beyond the reach of most people, that is why unless high end as a whole becomes affordable to the masses, don't expect any change of views. It's the same with anything else, how many people are going to shop for a lambhorgini?

i think there is a tendency to overcomplicate a simple situation.

people are unique in there chice of hobbbies or activities they prefer. music is just one activity. there are many others.

why single out music as if there is something special or different, from say, reading, going to the theter, or eating out.

certain activities are perhaps more popular than others. it may be economic, it may be a lack of appreciation--think schooling.

consider it like you would another hobby, like tennis or golf.

it really is no more productive to analyze the interest in music as it would be to analyze the interest in golf.

just accept it and move on.

First of all let me expand my comment. (As long as my answers and comments generally are, how could I possibly expand, you might ask).
The issue at hand has to do with television only peripherally imho.
A given is that we have limited time during a day/night in which to recreate. With children and a job, recreation shrinks--with a wife it shrinks more...and so on.
The question is, 'What do we chose to do with our time?'
When I mentioned Television, it wasn't 'blaming television' for the lack of hobbiests...it was noting what's probably happening. People CHOSE to do what they will...television is a device that allows us to bask in the glow of something that allows our brains to go into neutral...chewing gum for the mind, if you will.
If the allure of music was stronger, people would flock to it...so in my mind, the question is, 'Why isn't the allure of music strong enough to overcome other activities?'
It is with me, even though I do gravitate to the TV all too often.
No, for whatever reasons, music does not hold the enormous 'sway' that it does with 'some people'...those of us who ask this question are obviously in the minority.
But the confusing thing is...like the girl I mentioned in my post...once shown this, she was enthralled, captivated, overwhelmed with emotion and visceral response...so apparently music--wonderful music, for all it's PR, is still the most well kept secret in entertainment--why, is the question?

One of my long time friends, Joe and I always fall back to this comment--"Music does things to and for me, that nothing else can do."
This is a mystery to me.

As Yogi Berra would have said..."If people aren't going to listen to music--you can't stop them."

Good listening,

Larry

Lrsky and Jult52, I agree as well. I did away with TV years ago. It is a brainwashing and dumbing-down tool. The movie Network, where the masses were throwing their TV' out the windows..."I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore!"

Lrsky - I completely agree with your post. I think TV is to blame. It is a time suck that has reduced interest in all sorts of hobbies. Audio/music is affected but isn't an isolated case.

the Golden Rule states that he who has the gold makes the rules

hi nsgarch:

i was not alluding to the golden rule. it bears no relevance to my comments. i am well aware of the fibonacci series. i was a math major.

you can love music but employ a medium that is very inexpensive, not "audiophile" quality" and still derive immense pleasure from listening.

there was a study in stereophile years ago that found that satisfaction from listening to music had a low correlation with the quality of sound.

i believe that the above-mentioned study is one explanation for the paucity of audiophiles.

by the way, the law of the golden mean is also a concept found in philosophical writings.

4 hours is a lot of foreplay to waste on the phone.

The larger question is most likely, 'Why don't more people love music enough to make it a LARGER part of their daily lives?' For example, why don't more people become more invested in music as opposed to Television?
The other night, I was talking to a new girlfriend on the phone...we began talking about music and I suggested that we turn our computers on and go to YouTube.
We then spent, 4 hours laughing and talking, listening to music--some she'd never heard of...partly because of age, (she's 16 years younger) and partly because of my music 'habit'.
We came to the Nancy Wilson/Cannonball Adderley songs, 'Save Your Love For Me' and 'The Masquerade Is Over'...she was really, really loving Nancy. AND she loved Cannonball's sound and solos.
Frankly, I was thinking globally, that it was a bit sad that more people are unaware of such music--music that I've known for almost half a century, she'd never known, and further thought that Nancy Wilson 'has the most spectacular voice I've ever heard.'
I think, if more people were exposed to music that could move them, they'd become more invested in 'audio', 'cause and effect'.

The other part of the evening that I liked a lot, was the notion, that there's still a lot more music out there that I too haven't heard yet, that's exciting.

Good listening,
Larry

You really don't have to mortgage your life away to get a half way decent system on the used market. Most people are just flat out indifferent to high end audio and are more than content listening to their ipod. I do happen to think there is a small percentage out there though, if properly exposed would undoubtedly jump on the runaway audiophile bandwagon

People DO LOVE audio ... but it's fully integrated in ways that meet lifestyle requirements OR it's available to the degree allowed by economics. Most younger gen people are near-penniless and have "socialization" interests that preclude fragmentation (ie, a distinct and separate/separately-spaced audio system). This kind of suggests that most of us are too "busy" to waste precious time on something that is in large part esoteric and questionable as a separate entity. Virtually all of my students are aware of music that I never hear or have even heard of, but their listening habits/strategies make little sense to me, nor do mine to them. They look at me as if I were a freak ... and I am the freak ... even more so because I listen to jazz ....

This thread is proving to be instructive in ways I did not foresee.

More would love good audio if they heard it. But, most people do not consider good audio to be a priority. Hence, most people will not hear good audio.

Nsgarch and Mr Tennis will share the Golden Blivet Award this year. Both have the right idea wrongly stated.

For the rest of you:

The Golden Rule says, "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". This differs from the Limbaugh Rule which says, "Do unto others before they do unto you". Rush is a vicious paranoid.

The Golden Mean or Golden Section are names applied to the Fibonacci Series in mathematics illustrated in the following link:

http://www.textism.com/bucket/fib.html

Audio designers have experimented extensively over the years with Leonardo Fibonacci"s discoveries looking for ways to avoid wave cancellation. The topic is very interesting but appears to require a fairly advanced understanding of mathematics once you move beyond the fundamental description of its function.

Why don't more people love math?

Tennis, I think you are referring to the "Golden Rule" (part of a moral/ethical belief system) . . Right?

The Golden Mean, or Golden Section as it's sometimes called, refers to a two-dimensional construct (a specific angle) which is derived using geometric principles.
.

Macrojack, interesting POV's. I agree that, given your situation, why should you believe in God? A thought occurred to me recently though that you HAVE to being following SOMETHING. So if you aren't following God, then you are following something else. I wonder what it is?

"For those few who can't help themselves it may be possible to scrape together some of our leavings into a (MY suggestion for a) semblance of high end, but most won't even try."

Too bad hi-end can't be made simpler. It's easy to download MP3 crap online but high resolution files are hard to come by and even if you find them you have to worry about jitter, high frequency rubbish...... it gets real complicated real quick. Pity.

why is there seemingly so much concern regarding a person's attitude about a hobby ?

such a concern seems like a trivial pursuit to me.

i think some people are taking the subject "audio" to seriously. it is just a hobby, competing with many other hobbies.

hopefully we define ourselves by our character not by our hobbies.

chill out guys. it's no big deal whether people are or are not audiophiles, or like or do not like music.

the fact that there have been been three hundred + posts is puzzling to me, as my philosophy in life is that of the golden mean.

Some of us may be forgetting the unemployment and underemployment statistics that young people are facing. Maybe you are unaware of the insidious student loan trap too many of our youth have fallen into. Perhaps it has escaped your attention that wage erosion cripples the prospects for our recent college graduates.

Sit down and do the math. How does it look for kids trying to plant their flag somewhere on $40K per year? Times have changed. For those few who can't help themselves it may be possible to scrape together some of our leavings into a semblance of high end, but most won't even try. Buying a house and/or feeding their kids will crowd audio out of their thinking if, in fact, it ever gains entry.

More music is being bought now more than ever. Obviously music is important to people. Most of it through things like ITunes. Most of it is played back through headphones on ipods. Since there is a huge volume of people doing this, and lots of young people within this group, it seems to me a certain percentage of them will become interested in better playback. After market headphones are selling well. Websites like headfi are swelling in numbers. A certain percentage of these people will investigate further into audio and that will include higher end two channel setups. These are the seeds planted that is hope for the high end.

One word.....passion! An individual with Passion for good sounding music (depending on how passionate)....will naturally (come within) hunt for the gears and resources to get him or her there....(investment varies with financial status)...IMHO..(just from my personal experience).

At this point, prehaps someone should define "high End"

It is safe to say that most people who have the means to purchase our very expensive toys are aware of that option.

Embedded in the belief that others would choose to be like you if they were only presented with a sampling of what that means, is a rather narcissistic supposition.

I don't believe in god. There may well be such an entity but I have no reason to believe or disbelieve as much. I don't feel that I need to know nor that I could know. Others out there are condemning or pitying me for having blasphemed in such a way. They think that if only I was exposed to the bible, koran, lao tzu, glenn beck or ochocinco, I would recant repent and buy a preamp. Fact is, none of that will happen. And an audio expo on a street corner in Council Bluffs or Ft. Collins won't change much of anything. It is but a fanciful notion. If you don't believe me, try it yourself. If you pull it off, I'll admit I was wrong. But I ain't going to church.

Doing anything really well is not easy.

That reality excludes all but the most motivated from doing anything really well.

Still, many are motivated enough to do some things well, whatever it may be, for better or for worse.

Audio is merely a hobby, a trivial pursuit in the big picture of things for most. Doing audio alone well is not enough for most to subsist. There are other things that may provide greater return on investment if done well. Those are the things most will put their energy into. Only a few will need or want to put a lot of though or energy into audio when music can be heard fairly easily and for low cost otherwise.

Thanks for sharing your contrary opinion. I have no interest in changing your mind, but please allow me the opportunity to present something contrary to what you think. Thanks.
How is allowing the everyday man exposure to hi end audio a "pompous fantasy"? You, sir are so full of your own words that you cannot read what was written. Nothing was said about forcing people to be blown away by a stereo. Nothing was said about forcing someone to buy something because *I* like it. And "zealots who simply cannot imagine that anyone could experience the holy ghost or holy grail or holy sound as you experience it and remain unmoved."---- where was this ever written, or implied?
The original point was simply to allow people *who have never heard a hi-end stereo* the opportunity to do so. It is an attempt, however, small and ill conceived, allow more people to love audio. Instead of the negative attitude which seems to almost want people to stay out of the hobby.
Actually with hi-end audio getting smaller and smaller, IMHO, there IS a need to proselytize.
I agree with what you said:
"Only a small percentage got the bug and began the crusade. Many were called but few were chosen. All were exposed."

Except the part about "all were exposed". IMO, the vast majority of people have not. You cannot tell if you like something or not unless you try it.
If you open your mind and eyes to what people has written over and over again on this site, you will read that many here have gotten into the hobby because they had the chance to listen to the hi end stereo. They have said if they did not have this opportunity, they would still be living with their boombox.

To Macrojack:

Well said and absolutely true!!

Exposure is not the issue. Just because you make something possible does not mean you make it happen. Providing tax breaks to the wealthy will provide jobs we have been told. Thirty years later we have far fewer jobs than when this theory was sold to us. Making it possible (one more time) DOES NOT MAKE IT HAPPEN.

I provided a clear explanation above which made it possible for you to understand that some people just don't get the audio bug no matter how much exposure they"enjoy". These people represent the vast majority of humanity. Many, if not most, of us make sacrifices of time and money to participate in this hobby. Most of us, it could be said, are obsessive about it. Regular old folks like you see walking around and driving their cars and shopping for Reynolds Wrap or a toaster don't give a rosy damn how great a sound system performs. They'l hear it and say it sounds nice or it sounds great or Holy Sh*t, man, that's killer, and they'll still go home and forget about it. They do not have an urge to own and don't care if they never have that experience again.

So --------- repeat after me ----- making something possible does not make it so.

I have tried cigars because I worked with a bunch of guys who loved them and wanted me to love them as well. I was given some expensive smuggled Cuban thing to try and I followed their advice. I went home, sat on the swing in the back yard after dinner, lit it up by myself and puffed away. All the circumstances were ideal and I gave it every chance I could. Yecchhh. I not only didn't love it --- I didn't even like it. Opera went the same way. Golf too. Even though millions of people are as passionate about those things as you are about audio, I didn't care to invest my time, my money, or myself in any of them.
Please pull out of your pompous fantasy and just accept the fact that you are the weirdo -- not the guy on the street.

If you get pleasure from your system, that alone should be enough. There is no need to proselytize. To each his own.

Another thought - when I started selling retail audio in 1975, everyone was a prospect. Owning a stereo was de rigueur at the time and families poured through the door constantly in pursuit of a sound system. They were all exposed equally. Some bought upscale but most went entry level and stayed there until twenty years later when they looked into home theater. Only a small percentage got the bug and began the crusade. Many were called but few were chosen. All were exposed.

Except there are millions of people who enjoy music. Does someone have to understand tubes or driver technology to be qualified to listen to a hi end system? Why would someone have to wear the badge of Audiophile before they are allowed to hear a high end stereo? This isn't about catering to the audiophile. Enough of that already.

As many people have said here, they got into the hobby because they got the chance to listen to true high quality sound. My Canadian friend says American settle. But how can you be interested in something good if you've never been one of the Choosen Few who have been allowed behind those hallowed doors?

Self limiting snobbery sure will explain why more people don't love *hi end* audio, or won't get into it.

I believe that Macrojack said it all, and with good humor.

Sorry to disappoint. I buy Bubbie's sauerkraut. I'm not a DIYer. Most things are best left to those with the tools, the experience and the desire. Talent can be an issue as well. I'm second rate or worse in all of those areas. I don't even solder.

Macrojack,
You dont make your own saeurkraut?!!

Macrojack - Thank you so much for that post. Gosh, I laughed out loud. Great points made.

You guys are silly. Even in areas of the country where we enjoy some hobbyist density, there simply are not enough of us to keep this imaginary enterprise running. Ordinary non-audio people who have no interest in this stuff and don't care about specs, tube complements, driver technology or sampling rates are not going to pay admission to this place any more than I would pay to look at guns and camo fashions at Cabelas. Don't care is don't care.

Another point to consider is that the few places in our vast country that have the audiophile numbers to make this enterprise even remotely plausible happen to be the places most likely to have dealers.

Last point, and I hope you can at last grasp this:

You are in fantasyland. You come off like religious zealots who simply cannot imagine that anyone could experience the holy ghost or holy grail or holy sound as you experience it and remain unmoved. Fact is, though, they can. Even though you have discovered the one true short cut to heaven, they still will prefer to watch the TV, surf the net, hunt and fish, refinish furniture, paint the back porch, go bowling, read the wisdom of OchoCinco, collect stamps, sail their boat, plow their fields, etc. This is because we are all different. We all have areas of interest and they can be mutually exclusive. Some people even prefer to make their own music.

We need to get over ourselves. I'm sure there are threads out there wondering how the hell you manage to live a happy life if you don't make your own sauerkraut.

Hmmm. Audio galleries. People bringing in their favorite music just to hear it the best way possible. A 3-D listening experience, or the best they'll ever hear.
Some would get the bug and want to take the experience home.
Something to think about.