Women tend to have larger music collections than dudes (on average) and can appreciate great sound from equipment when they hear it. They are probably just wiser about economics than dudes. If you tell a female music lover+audiophile that a piece of wire+2 connectors should cost as much as a car, there is a very high probability that she would ask you to F/off, i.e., that level of dumassery is certainly the domain of the dumb dudes.
The female audiophiles in my house outnumber the dudes (wife and 2 daughters play musical instruments, have their own hifi rigs and significant music collections). Son is largely a mindless gamer dude and binge watcher of goofy sht on netflix, etc with no appreciation for music or hifi.
|
Women don’t want men to get the good a/v gear because they secretly have to be the evil queens competing with the snow whites to be able to get us. 😉
|
https://youtu.be/6f-eiaWKlYg
Tonight at the Musikverein, the audience and orchestra was evenly split between the genders. The gal in front of me was into it, rocking along with Schubert's Great Symphony in C Major AKA The Blitzkrieg.
* Except the brass.
|
Bifwynne - Sorry to be off-topic, but I looked at your system. Are you interested in a pair of Reference 150s? |
Ok ... I'll bite. Here's my take on politics and high office.
In my opinion, to qualify for high office, one should be sane. If one wants such a job, he or she must be crazy. Therefore, anyone who wants to be in high office is automatically disqualified for the job.
Hey Nicknac, I'm ready for a boat too and a life of private solitude. Just have to figure out a way to get my rig on the boat.
:) :) :)
Enough said. |
Or...Why don't females shop at Harbor Freight Tools? Women just aren't into gear. And is men's obsession with sound REALLY about the sound or using minutes changes in sound as an excuse to play with the gear?
Maybe their lack of interest in gear gives women a more objective POV on what is really going on. As one wife was quoted "They all sound good. Just pick one."
Didn't Hillary have to quit her job as Secretary of the State because of severe health issues? And now they want to bring her back when she had to quit her last government position? |
Gz, you did one Ho two many as they both are Power Ho's :(
Enjoy our Blessed Season, all my friends :) |
Iso, u REALLY bad! Ho, Ho, Ho |
|
|
Raks, u bad! But I must admit u also right, it would be great, LOL. Of course, the next question then becomes, who might she have an affair with??? |
If you know who does get elected, wouldn't it be great if she had an affair while in office. |
|
They still have Tupperware parties???!!! |
I can come home from work and my wife might be dancing to music that hurts my ears via the recording. I agree with a few comments that it's 90% the lyrical or emotional content and 10 percent the gear.
So is there consensus that there is less chance of getting la.d at an audio show than a Tupperware party? CES doesn't count for obvious reasons! |
Because a nice stereo doesn't make a woman look better or feel better about herself. Being an Audiophile is also mostly a solitary hobby. Women want to do more social activities. They get depressed and feel down when they are alone in a room for to long. They desire to much attention to enjoy this hobby. They are also more into the emotion of the music and not how it sounds sonically so much. They just want to hear the song and it doesn't matter if it's on their phone and earbuds or where it's coming from. |
What we can say with more probability is that if there is a female American president she will not be an audiophile!
As for the rest, most women have more sense than to torture themselves over the fact that the treble might be slightly sweeter with this interconnect, rather than just enjoying the track. |
Hillary is not Indira. USA is not India. Nor is it Great Britain (Thatcher) or Israel (Meir). Different places, different people.
My wife was invaluable as a listener when I was auditioning speakers. She has a great set of ears. But she doesn't really care to listen to the stereo or to music much (in spite of being a musician/teacher). When she does she likes it "good" and she likes it loud.
Some musicians and/or music teachers are so oversaturated with music during the day that the last thing they want to do is listen to music. |
12-21-13: Abucktwoeighty
I hope the next president of this country is female. just don't elect Hillary Clinton!! Otherwise, this is just fine with me personally. We elected Mrs. Indira Gandhi to be our Prime Minister back in 1971 when the USA couldn't even dream of having women in any sort of power let alone being the President of the country. |
Okay, I'll bite ... unless Hillary gets hit by a bus, I suspect the next president WILL be female. |
I hope the next president of this country is female.
This should stir things up..... |
At least most women are logical.
Ngjockey really??? :-? to me this sentence is an oxymoron... Just to be very clear - I love women so I'm not saying this with any spite or malice, etc. |
What I understand less than women are audiophiles. Too many varieties of each. At least most women are logical. |
Goes to show you how smart women are. Who on earth would want to be an audiophile? They're the equivalent of people who show dogs except they're not as social. Talk about a nerdy snore fest. |
Only heterosexual audiophiles really care.:) |
|
The 2% of self-described female audiophiles are faking it and couldn't set up a turntable properly or acoustically treat a room if their life depended on it. For the ladies in the field, it's mostly about décor, collectability, etc. And I'm fine with that. It's probably a more reliable indication of the difference in the sexes' brains than an MRI scan. |
Nope - chances are very, very thin that there will be more female audiophiles in 20 years. I heard this argument 25, 20, 15, 10, and 5 years ago. No more women today than in the past. And there was an issue of Time magazine some months (couple of years?) ago that outlined the voluminous studies showing how women and men are different in very meaningful, physical ways. And that includes brain structure and chemistry. Of course, as in all things in the universe, there are infinite degrees of differences.
If my wife and I are going on vacation for 10 days she will take 11 bathing suits. When we first married I would take 2 - I now take 3. |
how does one explain women serving in the armed forces, including pilots ?
yes they are in a small minority.
my point is that if women are exposed and encouraged to take an interest in some endeavor at a young age, perhaps as adults they will find that endeavor of interest.
yes, there are very few female mechanics, but i think the reason is cultural, i.e., the environment, rather than biology.
there are female engineers and doctors, including surgeons.
maybe in 20 years, there will be more female audiophiles. |
I like many of the above comments.
Especially the ones about women not getting much out of sitting quietly and listening to the music.
My wife will sit and not be interrupted---when watching a good movie.
This is also a woman who can tell in almost seconds when I have rolled tubes---even when I put away 'the evidence''
Oh, on shoes,I will never forget the look I got from her years ago when I took her to Hawaii---she asked me how many pairs of shoes I was bringing, my answer....
"Both Pairs"
UJ |
Women are not equal ----- they are equivalent.
This may seem like petty semantics but I mean to indicate that , while they are not inferior to men, they are clearly not the same. Stereotypes are always based in fact. They are generalizations which may not fit anyone perfectly but nonetheless survive as useful caricatures of a group.
Audio is a silly obsession to those who remain uninfected. For the most part I think women just dismiss the whole thing as "his hobby" and feign interest because they are interested in us and not our perversion.
It's important that we not behave like religious zealots. There is no reason to proselytize. Just share your fun with those who you deem worthy and try to be sensitive to their level of interest. If they don't care, so what? You can still have fun with your solitary preoccupation and your other half can do something else as well. |
there is a mrs. tennis. she is quite tolerant but disinterested as to audio matters as well as my taste in music.
we are all entitled to our opinions as to why there are so few women who are serious about this hobby. however, as long as we don't take these opinions too seriously, it's ok. if makes no sense to accept generalizations based upon limited experience. |
Mrtennis, something tells me you don't want to believe such differences could exist. By the way OF COURSE men's and women's brains will be mostly identical! However, the differences are critical! If you can't see that, I'm not going to spend an hour culling info on it. Do some homework! I'm not about to come with all sorts of data only to have you with a negative, argumentative attitude and discount it. Maybe you'll see if you research it yourself. If it's not important enough to you, so be it. No skin of our backs...
Call me "sexist" having stereotypical impressions of women, or whatever you like, but if you reject what I've said, then you're going to have a bit of difficulty getting along with the opposite sex.
What a naive idea, "If women were treated as equals..." You obviously don't understand: A man can treat a woman as equal as anyone can, yet women typically AREN'T INTERESTED IN machines and solitary activites like some men. Maybe sexist thinking on the part of women is behind men not wanting to belong to book clubs or not watching QVC for an hour a day as well?
MrT, you're a good guy around here; I mean no ill feelings, no disrespect. I agree that more accommodation to introduce them to audio and educating them would be highly valuable. But, I think that we've got a trend that spans decades going here, and it's not about to change now.
The one exception I see is Stock Car Racing: Hunky drivers, music, etc. tied in with a HIGHLY SOCIAL setting has turned on women to the sport. In most audiophile's lives there's not much social about the hobby. Hah, in some audiophile rooms there's only ONE listening chair. I wonder what THAT says about inviting others to the party? Yes, my room has several chairs, and every time my wife spends time listening without fail I offer her the optimum chair. Most of the time she doesn't want to sit there, as it's higher back bothers her neck. I guess she's not a good audiophile. :)
I'm leaving this topic (at least for now); I'm not devoting more time to this discussion. |
|
I can't offer any genetic evidence for you, but based on my own personal experience with women I've been intimate with throughout my audiophile life, I would have to go along with Douglas' opinion. I also don't believe that it has anything to do with making a woman feel "equal". |
i think you miss my point. the differences that have been mentioned so far i think are based on stereotypical thinking and questionable observations.
there have been many studeies to show that the brains of men and women are not that different.
if women are treated as equals then perhaps there would be more women who took an interest in this hobby.
sexist thinking is partly responsible for the lack of interest that women have in this hobby.
please document the evidence of genetic differences between men and women, beyond the obvious biological differences. |
Mrtennis, you write:
what is the evidence and/or basis of all the geneder-specific analysis of "female" behavior ?
C'mon, tell me you're joking. You really can't see something this obvious? It's not JUST socialization, it's both genetic and socialization - the same way that people who try to keep their kids from guns are stunned when the kid picks up a stick, aims it and yells, "POW! POW!"
I have concluded that it's not that men cannot see these differences, but that many of them choose to ignore or discount them. The men sit smug in their isolated music, and the women, who don't realize how important such things are to men, are smug in their perception of it as childish. Thus it goes at many audiophile's homes. Why else would men lie to their wives about equipment purchased, etc. There's a lot of abnormal, unhealthy relationships because men don't understand (or respect) women very well, and because women discount men's needs. It does go both ways, but the topic of the thread was why women aren't as into audio.
Futher, I would suggest that women would likely advance faster as audiophiles, because they connect mentally with both the intellectual and aesthetic more wholistically. Frankly, I think many women have already assessed the sound of their partner's systems and judged it "nice" but boring. They can hear the differences, but to them those differences are not significant enough to spend tons of time assessing those differences. In their scheme of what's important in life, overdoses of music rates low.
This shouldn't be rocket science to men! It should be obvious, but as I said, many guys look at women with a slight degree of arrogance and superiorety. They'll actually harbor a low level contempt for the woman because she "Doesn't get it" etc. No, they get it, they just don't care as passionately as we do. Many guys just can't accept that possibility. Women know when men do this (the arrogance and superiorety attitude), and they despise it. Causes untold friction between them. etc.
They guys who say their wives are fine with the audio - they are most likely the ones who respect their wives desires and attitudes more. In return, they get more respect toward the audio hobby. |
what is the evidence and/or basis of all the geneder-specific analysis of "female" behavior ?
is it based upon brain physiology ? is it based upon hormones ? or is it based upon "culture" ?
if the latter isn't it possible that women can appreciate audio gear with the same intensity as men if they are reared by their parents without the usuual male/female stereotype expectations ?
just as there are female engineers, doctors and ceos, there is no reason not to expect, in time, a greater interest in this hobby among women. |
Pzuckerman, the notion that only male birds sing is incorrect, The comparison to humans is very thin, as humans do not speak almost exclusively for mating purposes. (Not trying to be argumentative, just factual)However, your analysis of women is quite astute.
Regarding the topic at hand:
Women tend to be social and look for social activities. Listening silently to gear is not terribly social. Women tend to enjoy relationships, not objects. Many women do not care to converse on or develop expertise on technical machinery. Many women hold down two jobs, if they work outside the home and most are still the primary caregivers, so audio is not a high priorety. etc.
Steve Chamber's wife is perfectly representative, in that she calls our stuff "Lego" and indicates that the setting is more important than the gear. Women tend to cherish events in life (note social context), not sterile performance of components.
To that end, an audiophile would likely do better at involving the wife in the hobby if he takes her to a concert occasionally and puts on the artist's music afterward. Then, MAYBE she'll take SLIGHT notice of the equipment/presentation.
BTW, some men probably feel lied to or betrayed by women who at first, prior to marriage, sit and listen along with them, then after marriage do not. It's not that the women were being deceitful; they just wanted to spend time with their man. But, men don't realize that, and they think the woman is really into the audio, etc. Wrong. She just wanted to be with him.
Men do the same thing by "romancing" a woman as a means to win her, then stopping after he's won her. Men look at it like a job to do, and once done, no more need to work at it, right? wrong.
Go, buy her some flowers, buy some tickets to a concert, etc. There's your free mariage counseling advice. After all, your marriage IS more important than your rig, right?
Why do more women use iPods than stereos? Because they're cute. Seriously, Apple knows what it's doing; many women like "cute" electronics - small, not as intimidating, etc.
Many of them will pick phones like a pair of sunglasses, how they look.
Interesting observation that Crystal Cable has a woman heading up the company and she knows what she's doing in regards to advertising. (This is not a slam at all, as I haven't worked with Crystal Cables - just an observation) Look at the ads; completely aesthetically driven. Mostly pictures and "feel", not technical blurbs. It's working on the aesthetic, not the intellectual. It's tapping into the fact that many people today, men and women, operate not on congition but with emotion.
For most women, sitting in an isolated environment with complex machinery is not terribly compelling as an activity. |
Only 2 things this hobby can do in the end...
#1 Become a Dangerous Obsession
#2 Become a VERY Dangerous PASSION!!
One of the only hobbies you can make so many mistakes, and lose so much money, and have so much fun doing it, but still be irritated and go back for more! Maybe this is much more like a gambling problem than we think?
By the way I think part of the Female thing is, just no way they could have this much patience without the results, so they stay away...And we keep banging our head against the wall trying the next best thing, or until we figure out how to re-invent the wheel. |
I listen to Marian McPartland every Monday night on NPR. I really love her show. She is old, but she still has that magic in her unique playing. I also like the variety of guests she has on with her. |
I am not talking about vocalist now, but instrumentalist women in jazz, and with the exception of Mary Lou Williams, Marian McPhartland and newcomer Mindi Abair, there remains very few women in jazz, that can relate to other women. Perhaps this is part of the problem why women do not shop for jazz such as men do. There just isn't many role models for them to choose from. I would dare say ask any woman shopping today online or in a record store do they know Marian McPhartland or Mary Lou Williams, I think you will get a blank stare. |
Hdomke...I don't think anybody is speaking in absolutes. Albert was speaking in general terms and there are many exceptions to the "rule". Thus the phrase "women are less likely to..." However, it is scientific fact that men and women have different brain chemistry and construction, along with general differences in physiology.
I've only known two female audiophiles in 30 years, and, as in Ferrari's experience, both were real musicians. I've also noticed in 38 years of buying jazz albums that there are almost never any women in the jazz section. (Of course, I haven't been to a record stores in months and only go a couple times a year now.) My sister-in-law pretended for a few years to be "really into jazz" but had never heard of Miles, Coltrane, Parker, Monk, Blakey, Mingus, Rollins, etc. |
Not me. I hate fighting. I had enough of that with my last wife. She hated my stereo, however. I figured we could sell my system and just enjoy yours. I'm easy. You pick the music. |
Thanks for the offers guys but we'd inevitably fight about whose gear sounds better and what CD/record to play! |
No fair, Michael. I was about to ask her as well. |
Sc53, will you marry me?
Michael |
I'm a female audiophile too and have engaged in the kind of gear swapping/upgrading typical of males in the hobby. I've slowed down a bit in that department because I finally know what I like and have found gear that works for me. A crucial fact for me is that I am single and only my old Ma lives with me. She sometimes complains if I play the system in the living room too loud but otherwise doesn't interfere, so I don't really have to answer to anyone about what I buy and where I put it, unlike most of the men on this forum. So I have a great deal of freedom and have made great use of it! I have been in the hobby since I was 13 with my first record player, purchased from the PX of my family's army post home at the time. It's 42 yrs later and I have never stopped collecting music and trying to make the best sound possible in my home system(s). Over the years I have often asked why on earth I am so obsessed with getting the sound right (to me--my tastes differ from many in that I don't like harsh, bright, etched, overly detailed sound). Like a previous poster, the closest I have come to the truth, for me, in answering this question is the idea of creating this virtual world under my control--literally with a remote or the volume knob or a power conditioner etc. It's fun to make changes in this world, sometimes for the better, sometimes for the worse so I have to change again. I have definitely overspent my budget many times and know enough now about what I like that I could have saved myself many $$$ had I known 20 yrs ago what I know now about what sounds good and works well together. But all that took trial and error, which is of course expensive. My female friends agree my music sounds fantastic but none of them have been interested in spending the kind of money I have on equipment. I do NOT have hobbies like buying shoes, clothes, dining in expensive restaurants, buying expensive cars, or other things others spend their money on. I do buy a lot of music still (not downloaded, sounds like crap) and read music reviews in mags etc. Most of my friends' musical tastes stopped developing after college. They got interested in other things, and many raised families so that's a huge distraction from this time-consuming, expensive hobby! I'd like to know how the other 3 or 4 female audiophiles on this site got into the hobby and got familiar with the gear they've ended up with. In my case, I didn't learn from a brother or father, I just came up with the craving myself! And my two younger brothers got influenced by ME, they consult me for all things stereo-related to this day. I recently helped David assemble a fantastic system from Audigon to put in a new dedicated room he was able to nab in his new house. I had experience with all the pieces I found for him on the 'Gon and once he got them all up and running he is thrilled with the sound! FWIW I located for him: Electrocompaniet ECD-1 upsampling CD player, ARC VT100 MkI power amp, BAT VK3i preamp, and LAT International cables. He already had my old Spendor BC-3 speakers and stands but needed to replace his old Adcom stuff. |
This is an excellent topic and one that bugs me a great deal too. I believe single women living on their own would be more prone to be interested in a good system and seek advice. Some years back in the 80's/maybe early 90's, my wife and I had a single female friend living on her own seeking her PhD in anthropology. She loved music and asked me to go with her to a high end audio store. I did and she purchased a Rotel receiver and a pair bookshelf speakers (I can't recall the brand). BTW, her name is Elizabeth. Coincidence? |
During my years in high end audio, my demographics mirrored what has been said here. Clearly my customer base was 99 percent white male caucasan basically (WASP). I had two afro american customers, one hispanic, one asian and two women. I had often wondered how a business such as high end audio could attract a more diverse audience, but could never come up with a solution and here it is some 26 years later and it appears the rut is still in place.
When it came to buying Records, Tapes, didn't have CD in those days the numbers were vastly different. So the interest in music is quite universal, but the gear only appeals to the WASPs among us. This is indeed a strange phenonomen. A large buying audience with disposable income, that does not buy high end gear, but buys the music.
The two women that bought the gear, were musicians with a large local symphony orchestra as well as chamber ensemble.
If anyone can find the keys to this kingdom, it is instant overnight success. As far as my wife is concerned she has always heard good systems, but with her as well it is the music that interest her and not the gear. She can't explain it to me why that is. |
