What's the story with Borresen speakers ?

https://audiogroupdenmark.com/product/boerresen-x3/

Thanks arafiq.

Saw that also upon typing x3 in search on their website.

  No surprise.They change their product line as fast or faster than most manufactures.The Z line going or gone,the X line could be going out as Ive seen several of the X3 and X6 on secondary market cheap from dealers as demo stock which is always a good sign things are changing.Will be interesting to see what they offer at Axpona this year.

Great opportunity to snag the X speakers for cheap. Love the X2s!

f208frank...just curious why you are selling just owning them for a couple months?

By all accounts they make some great speakers, but I hope they don’t fall into incremental/habitual upgraditis (a la Denafrips and Hifiman as two examples) as it tends to piss existing customers off and causes potential new buyers to just buy used models as the benefits of the newer models just aren’t worth paying up for.

I don't think it was Borresen's intent ever to be a "more affordable" brand. 

The X series was probably a more temporary offering to get their sound in the hands of more individuals and get them talking (get the hype up)....because there's not much of a sonic difference between the X's and the higher models I've heard if you equalize the electronics.

The higher models sounded better because they had their flagship electronics tied to it, no real miracle of the speaker.

Thought I read somewhere that Borrensens don't hold their value in the resale market.

Most of the audio stuff don’t hold their values.I own x1 I bought them $5900 1 yr old.

Too many changes in speaker lines for me to consider Borrensens. Just my own thoughts YMMV.

rsf507..I totally agree,but on the used market they can be a decent to good buy....X3 are trading right at or  under 6k,I think the discussions of the issues with that speaker has not help them holding value on the secondary market . Im guessing 12 months from now under 5k used . Im sure the X series will be in the rear view mirror at Boressen by then..... $5900 on the X1 speakers,maybe maybe not a good buy..im guessing you would be hard pressed to get over 4k for them if that..

Most audio gear does not hold value very well at all. Maybe if you sell quickly while a component is still in the "flavor of the month" status, you might do okay. Or maybe if the item becomes highly sought after or a rare classic over the years, it might actually increase in value. But for every one of those there are hundreds of other components which now sell for a fraction of their original price.

This is great for people buying 2nd hand, and not so great for those who purchased new. So it's a matter of perspective. 

Because I have the KEF reference 3s, the Focal scala EVOS, and the Clarysis Minuet+s on the way. I just enjoy trying new stuff, my Xs are mint and I do have original receipt showing I paid 10500 from House of Stereo, Florida.

That makes sense ,not financially though...there are lots of audio that hold value ie..I bought a pair of Dynaudio C4s,used them for 7 years and when i sold them they were still in their lineup as current..sold basically for what i paid...McIntosh is another brand, B&W seems to do well,Focal seems to hold value..list goes on and on..Boressen just as with Raidho (when he was there) change way way too often ,what's current today is replaced tomorrow. I lost my ass with Raidho so I would never buy new Boressen, but thats just me.

You should probably sell the Focal and Clarysis instead...and set up the Borresens  with some bass management + subs.

Because I have the KEF reference 3s, the Focal scala EVOS, and the Clarysis Minuet+s on the way. I just enjoy trying new stuff, my Xs are mint and I do have original receipt showing I paid 10500 from House of Stereo, Florida.

I don't know who is responsible for the B.S. present in all the older Raidho and now Borresen advertising but I am sure it is Lars, the man who spouts and spouts and busts your eardrums at any audio show, not mentioning his terrible taste in demo music.

My older Raidho D2s are superb loudspeakers, and my keepers, but they were $17k used and in mint condition with the Burl wood finish. They retailed at $59K when new and not so many years earlier. 

Now their insane options, "cryo" for example, are simply ridiculous and worthy of 'the emperor's new clothes' as a moniker. I dare anyone to hear them and tell me the difference without sight, in one session or over months. I'm not sure who to blame but I sure think Mr. Marketing has a big hand in that B.S. as well.

Still they are great speakers but a fine example of phenomenal diminishing returns unless purchased used.

The pricing on higher end models of Borresen is perhaps inspired by Daryl Willy and Alon Wolf (none of these guys have ever been worth the price), but...atleast they look better/have higher WAF than Daryl and Alon’s stuff.

I don’t know who is responsible for the B.S. present in all the older Raidho and now Borresen advertising but I am sure it is Lars, the man who spouts and spouts and busts your eardrums at any audio show, not mentioning his terrible taste in demo music.

My older Raidho D2s are superb loudspeakers, and my keepers, but they were $17k used and in mint condition with the Burl wood finish. They retailed at $59K when new and not so many years earlier.

Now their insane options, "cryo" for example, are simply ridiculous and worthy of ’the emperor’s new clothes’ as a moniker. I dare anyone to hear them and tell me the difference without sight, in one session or over months.

Borensen owners don’t sell their speakers that quick. It took awhile before I saw my x1 speakers showed up used at TMRauddio.

Agreed!  I don't plan to sell my D2s unless I hit the mega-lottery, as another step up would be pretty much a supreme effort in diminishing returns so far as I can tell.

For my medium sized open room the D2s still float my boat after almost nine years. I know folks get bent about blind testing and I always test over a long period of time without going 'blind' but the differences are rather sublime at a certain level.

There are 16 pairs of Borresen speakers listed for sale on hifishark.  One dealer is selling 4-5 demo pairs.  Doesn't sound like a dearth of used one for sale to me.

There are often two types of posts, the fans and the haters. I’m trying to be informative and objective here, as much as that is possible when you are an Audio Group Denmark flagship dealership.

First, BØRRESEN speakers are designed by Michael Børresen, who was then the lead designer for Raidho, is now the lead designer for Børresen and involved in nearly every product Audio Group Denmark manufactures. Michael is not just a "designer", but worked with Lars Kristensen as a highly creative team for many years, and both are among the most forward thinking people I have met, constantly challenging themselves and the tried and true formulas. This spirit is now to be found throughout the company and has become part of the DNA of AGD. This philosophy and willingness to test designs has led to products that simply astonish, should not do what they do and lead even cynical audio reviewers with mouths open wide.

Having started with Wilson Benesch, Audionet and Nordost, Blink High End began as a Raidho dealer (after having received the recommendation from dealer friends that Raidho speakers stand out) in Boston in 2011 and we spent hundreds of hours with Lars and Michael, heard consistently from clients who auditioned many other brands that they appreciated Michael’s speakers, then Raidho and now Børresen, for their higher resolution, ultra low noise floor, stunning technical and visual design  and overall very life-like quality. The best compliment you can give a speaker is that it plays like the performer(s) appear in the room. Why pay for less than magic? 

As classically trained audio engineers we appreciate this dedication to realism, as so many speakers fall short of this. We are lucky to also be a leading dealership for other amazing brands, many simply among the world’s finest and most musical, delivering headphone like resolution without ever sounding dry, dead or clinical, but what matters is what you hear for yourself. Please try to not discourage others to audition these fantastic products, let everyone come to their own conclusions. Peter Hansen built up a reputable dealer network that should allow a thorough audition of most products, us focussing more on the high end but all of them treating their customers with care and respect.  

Now about Lars, Lars has been the co designer, initiator, and architect for many of the great inventions. If he plays loud or too loud for your taste, this too shall pass, and ask for your own track to be played softer. His contributions are and have been immensely important. Lars likes to play mostly electronic and contemporary music, true, but we have heard him, at Blink, at the factory more so than at shows, also play also classical, and at very modest levels, too.

Bear in mind that at hifi shows you are competing against a relatively high backdrop in noise. During visits with our clients to the excellent factory of Audio Group Denmark in Aalborg we found Lars, his son Emil, Frits and everyone else extremely accommodating and helpful. In fact, I would challenge you if you find a more genuinely passionate, competent factory in Denmark that is driven by the love for music, constantly innovates and has accomplished more in 10 years than most other companies in 50.

Thus, an open minded, positive approach allows the full exploration of products that are unique, often unmatched,  and allow even greater enjoyment and exploration of all styles of music. 😉🍀🏌️⛳

Thanks for your detailed explanation and congrats on being a flagship dealership.  My experience with the Borresen speakers have been nothing but positive.  When mated to Aavik Acoustics gear, as they usually are, the sound is sublime.  Last year I went to all of the west coast audio shows.  The rooms were huge without room treatments, but these systems were simply jaw dropping.  I visited the rooms multiple times during the show.  Simply amazing.  
 

I went a different direction with speakers and have been very happy.  There are lots  of choices at these price points, but I’d be very happy with Borresen’s as well.

Congrats and happy listening.

Borresen speakers had quite a buzz going some years ago when they started introducing things like $100,000 stand mounted speaker.  And in the carefully curated scenario of audio shows, some people were saying they sounded fantastic.

So I was quite curious about Borresen speakers for a while and wanted to hear some.

I have to say I no longer feel that way.  For me, they’ve lost any buzz.

And for me and I know many others part of that is that they seem to have had their pants pulled down every time one of their speakers have been measured.  

I’m not necessarily in the “ measurements are the last word for loudspeakers” camp.  People can enjoy loud because they did not measure neutral.

But the two Borresen speakers for which one can find measurements - x3 and X6 - have been very un impressive technically.  And now there’s now been yet another review with measurements of a  Borresen speaker - the 15k (British pounds!) C1 stand mounted speaker.  

Measurements can be seen in this link:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/worst-measuring-loudspeaker.11394/post-2371583

Yikes!

Just when I thought Borresen measurements couldn’t get any worse!  Look at that 19 dBdown chunk out of the frequency response.  And ragged upper high frequencies.  And it looks like ringing in the bass again like the other models.

From my perspective:

It’s one thing if Borresen just claimed they made speakers they think sound great.  

But like most such high-end speaker companies, especially pricing their gear in the stratosphere, they make all sorts of TECHNICAL claims for the superiority of their design approach, engineering, materials, etc. For lowering distortion and all the usual claims.

And if you’re gonna make such technical claims, then they should hold up to technical scrutiny.  Which they don’t seem to.

In the measurements we have so far of their loudspeakers none of these technical claims of superiority seem to show up in the measurements.  In fact, the evidence points towards the opposite: ringing resonances (in the bass), roller coaster frequency response with audible deviations from neutral.   Both Erin and Soundstage not only showed measurements of gouges out of the frequency response, they reported they were quite audible as colorations, for instance recessed dulled portions in the frequency response.  And there have been plenty of people in forms who have heard the Borresens and who reported being output by just those type of obvious colorations.

Even as a layman, the frequency response looks to me like somebody who doesn’t know what they are doing, and analysis on ASR (and I think by Erin) suggests poor crossover design as one culprit.

And this C1 speaker seems to continue the trend of their house sound. 

This isn’t a plea for nobody to buy their speakers, of course.  I’ve liked some speakers that don’t measure textbook perfect myself.  Anybody should buy whatever they like. And I’ve defended on ASR the right for anyone to purchase and enjoy Borresens.

But from my perspective, I think I’ve seen enough to conclude the emperor has no clothes with this company.   In terms of the lower line that have been measured, I personally couldn’t put up with the frequency responses I’ve seen .  Even if I could’ve afforded one of their over 100 K loudspeakers, I’d be feeling kind of sheepish once the evidence from these measurements start showing  that the design is not confidence inspiring in terms of their technical chops.

If I happen to be a show, were Borresen speakers were playing, I would give it a listen.  But at this point, I wouldn’t seek them out. 

I found the tone and dynamics to be spectacular regardless of measurements.  The deal breaker was image shift.  Similar to that of PS Audio towers.