Assuming all the same level, whether speaker cables or interconnects give bigger difference cannot be answered generally. Of the interconnects, it is usually the very first one that is most important. In my system that's the tonarm cable that goes from the cartridge to the phono stage. But in any case, I believe that speaker cables should be viewed as one element of the amp/speaker cables/speakers unit. On the other hand, the entire cable chain including speaker cables is a unit too. So, I think if you want the highest performance it does get complicated. Except for power cords I try to follow one brand approach but not one model approach.
What do audiophiles want from a cable?
What should a high quality interconnect or speaker cable do to the sound of a system? Make it more transparent? Improve the sound stage and focus? Soften unpleasant highs? Tighten the base? Bring out the mids?
To me, a good cable should reveal more of what is on the recording and more of the true nature of my components. So when trying new cables, I look for more detail and accuracy without becoming cold and clinical. This seems logical, and yet after reading reviews and trying a few of the cables in the reviews, I find that the cables that have received glowing endorsements are not especially transparent or revealing. They modify the sound, but they don’t take me where I want to go. I wonder if the reason I don’t hear what the reviewer heard is that I don’t know what to listen for. Am I too focused on cable accuracy and resolution, and not enough on actual sound quality? Or is it just a case of no two systems sounding alike so why trust a review anyway? Thanks.
To me, a good cable should reveal more of what is on the recording and more of the true nature of my components. So when trying new cables, I look for more detail and accuracy without becoming cold and clinical. This seems logical, and yet after reading reviews and trying a few of the cables in the reviews, I find that the cables that have received glowing endorsements are not especially transparent or revealing. They modify the sound, but they don’t take me where I want to go. I wonder if the reason I don’t hear what the reviewer heard is that I don’t know what to listen for. Am I too focused on cable accuracy and resolution, and not enough on actual sound quality? Or is it just a case of no two systems sounding alike so why trust a review anyway? Thanks.
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OP, In response to your original question, I am not going to say whether a cable should make your system warm or cold or clinical anything else. If anything, it should make your system more musical and make you want to listen to more music. I heard a big difference in my system when I changed from my previous speaker cable to the current speaker cables. My system needs all the gain that can be extracted to the last iota. I do not know why, but I GOT this gain in my system and it sounded fabulous. I can explain the FIRST time I experienced a gain - it was because I moved from RCA to XLRs. But the SECOD gain was by simply by changing the loudspeaker cables - and that too surprisingly from bi-wiring to single wire + jumpers. Whatever happened - my system is more musical now than what it was before. I think YOU should listen to the system in which the new cables re introduced. The reviews are just to get you started. There is a 100% chance that you will completely disagree with the reviewers - both professionals and regular users. |
My guess is that audiophiles see cables as similar to water hoses, and the goal is to increase the flow and remove the constriction. That's at odds with reality, since we're not dealing with electrons flowing into preamps, amps or speakers. But anything that creates such an illusion can often find a market, and often command amazing markups over cost to produce. |
"My guess is that audiophiles see cables as similar to water hoses, and the goal is to increase the flow and remove the constriction. That's at odds with reality, since we're not dealing with electrons flowing into preamps, amps or speakers." I hope the above is a typo! If its not electrons flowing along the cables into our components and speakers then what is it? Little fairies? |
I use Jorma Prime and Statement cables in my $200k system which sound natural, smooth/liquid, slightly warm (Prime) to neutral (Statement), harmonically rich & sophisticated. They also have excellent resolution and sound staging without ever sounding analytical or edgy. They nail the midrange. Highly recommended cables! |
hifiman5 285 posts 10-28-2016 7:48pm "My guess is that audiophiles see cables as similar to water hoses, and the goal is to increase the flow and remove the constriction. That’s at odds with reality, since we’re not dealing with electrons flowing into preamps, amps or speakers." I hope the above is a typo! If its not electrons flowing along the cables into our components and speakers then what is it? Little fairies? ............................ sorry to put a damper on the water hose theory of cables but electrons move at a rate of only a few centimeters per minute, in AC circuits they move to and fro, with net zero gain. The audio signal itself, you know, the electromagnetic wave, on the other hand, travels at near light speed. |
Good morning Mr. Kait, Good point. So we should be describing how various signal transmission products handle the electromagnetic wave. I will buy that. Perhaps that is why some of the latest higher-technology cable/powercord/power treatment products have moved in this direction (EM cells (SR) and magnetic enhancement (HF), for example) and away from massive windings of large-gauge conductors long thought to be indicative of a superior conductive interface? Best to you geoffkait, Dave |
jmcgrogan25,498 posts10-29-2016 10:15pmHello David,Hi John, i’m well thanks. I recently came back from holiday, so I need to do some cleaning up after my break in the next week. I’m aiming to get a basic setup in the next 2 wks & do some solid run in for about 3 wks, before taking up an offer from my Dealer’s room setup consultant to run some room sweeps, get a final setup & spike my speakers. It’s been a helluva year, but i’m now starting to put myself first again! |
hifiman5 286 posts 10-29-2016 4:17pm @geoffkait Might your electrons need testing for ADD/ADHD?? For gods’ sake man organize your electrons. Look at what’s going on at the quantum level here. Is this reality or are all of us really in the Matrix? Thnx for pointing that out as I forgot to mention - you know that electromagnetic wave I mentioned, the one that’s the audio signal? It’s not electrons, it’s photons. ;-) Cheers |
He replies to emails the same day and recommended Poseidon, but I jumped straight to his best fluid cable. I suspect that single crystal copper in Neptune and Corvus with the help of the fluid does something extra, there is a strong element of purity in the sound, regardless of whether you prefer this kind of sound signature or not, this cannot be denied. |
Hi inna, I haven’t heard any of his cables/cords since RMAF several years back. Fantastic sound and I am sure that his stuff is much better now. I still have a 10ft pair of Maximus XLR ICs (using in HT system) and a 2m pair of Aqueous RCA ICs (used in vintage system). Antiques. lol. I contacted Jim about 10 years ago (cables were ~ 10 years old then) about refilling both with his nectar. He told me just to sent them in and he would take care of it and pay return shipping. He did so, and quickly at that. Awesome, They need another refill. I wonder if Jim can resist laughing when I call him this time. Best to you inna, Dave |
Hey, I’m a NASA dude, too. All electromagnetic waves are comprised of photons. Photons like the ones in X rays and audio signals don’t have to be visible. They have varying uh wavelengths. The electromagnetic spectrum is much wider than the portion that contains visible light. It also explains why electromagnetic waves travel at light speed since photons are the only thing that can go that fast. Photons must travel at the speed of light! Hel-loo! cheeios |
Dave, he won't laugh, but a few years ago when I asked him to refill my Maximus RCAs with fluid he only offered to refill them with Ferox, and that's what I have. It is still Maximus, in some ways better and in some ways worse than with fluid. Still worth it unless you are ready to get a new Poseidon. Now I have not heard Poseidon and there is no information about this cable. It is supposed to be significantly better than Maximus or Aqueous fluid. |
Ferox will make them quieter, will increase resolution a little, and the bass will be more poweful. The loss will be in the area of soundstaging and fluidity, but not by much. At least that's what happened in my system. Ferox is a sort of a macho stuff. In any case, give them 200-250 hours of burn-in time after the refill to sound their best. |
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I want my cables to pass the signal from one component to the next exactly as it was transmitted. Can't understand how anyone would want anything different. Perfection is not an option. No cable exists that passes information exactly as it is transmitted. Therefore, people tune the sound of their system to suit their musical tastes. Whether they decide to use gear (speakers, amps, sources) to tune the sound of their system to their tastes, or cables/cords, is up to each individual to assess. I believe that many folks find it easier to change cables than to change gear when tuning their system. |
Perfection is not an option. No cable exists that passes information exactly as it is transmitted.Why not just get a equalizer? Much simpler if that's the true desire. |
I use the "eq" on my MA7000. A better way to describe it is a series of controls that provide me with up to 12db of boost or cut at 5 frequencies know to cause room anomalies(nasties). I use it to tune my room. Yes my listening room. That is how it was intended to be used I believe. You see there is a spike at 1500hz in here caused by I don't know what. I knock it down about 2-3db and perfecto! Good sound. @yoby I have two pair of the Jade cables. They are awesome, no doubt about it. The move to an integrated made them available. Are you interested? Randy did you attempt to bring freaking POLITICS into a cable thread on an AUDIO forum.....? There is a forum for that I'm sure and I bet they looooove to argue over there. I'm sorry man but that's just wrong. God help us all. Thank you onelove for your comments regarding AZ Satori! Sounds favorable and the more I read on Agon, the more it seems these may be some of the most highly praised speaker cables on this forum. Most seem to love them. I hope they will be wonderful, but I have not gotten to burn them in yet. During initial hookup I broke one of the banana connectors on the amp end(7ga). Now typically I would re terminate these babies myself, but after closer inspection and considering possible future resale, I sent them to Mr. Robert Lee for some new Furutech spades. So Satori Shotgun will be back to me in a few weeks good as new, and I'll give my impressions to add to all the others. Watch out McGrogan, the dawgs are howling again! And I'm not talking about UGA football. Carry on with the madness please. |
Where are you Budburma? Hopefully somewhere "hearing the humanity" in front of the Opera Callas. OR maybe on top of a Catskill peak barking at the moon. Either way...We need your input here, and I need more of your impressions of Sablon Panetela and the Western Electric 16ga wire that I have loved in the past with vintage McIntosh toooooob gear. Btw, I saw where the Dueland guy has made a copy wrapped in cotton, soaked in mineral oil, and then baked in an oven....no joke lol. |
Yea thanks maybe something really big I know, but I just don't get the use of liquid in cables as discussed above,other than maybe for having an additional layer of control over photons' energy? I have always thought that electrons traveling down a pvc-covered (or PE) wire could not be struck by a single photon and even if they did, the photon(s) frequency could not be high enough to change electrons' kinetic energy, not to mention eject a single one from the copper. The work function is totally insufficient in this case imo. |
chrisr 167 posts 11-04-2016 4:22pm Yea thanks maybe something really big I know, but I just don’t get the use of liquid in cables as discussed above,other than maybe for having an additional layer of control over photons’ energy? I have always thought that electrons traveling down a pvc-covered (or PE) wire could not be struck by a single photon and even if they did, the photon(s) frequency could not be high enough to change electrons’ kinetic energy, not to mention eject a single one from the copper. The work function is totally insufficient in this case imo. well, just to interject, the electrons traveling down the cable can’t have too much kinetic energy to begin with as the electrons are traveling what, around a few centimeters per minute? And as the mass of electrons is also rather small the result is hardly any kinetic energy at all. cheers |
Yes, fat albert who kindly reminded me that the doppler cooling mechanism is very real and must not be ignored when hi-fidelity is the goal. You see by cooling the copper atoms with constant temperature fluids, you prevent the atoms kinetic energy to change if they have the misfortune to absorb a photon. Albert also suggested that the doppler cooling may not be sufficient, and we may benefit from a sub-doppler cooling mechanism know as the sysyphus cooling, which implies the use of lasers. So basically, we could come close to the perfect cable by inserting a laser beam into the pvc jacket, which is doable with an optical fiber, preferably glass for near-zero loss. Now what copper gauge to use remains a question mark. |
Chrisr wrote, "So basically, we could come close to the perfect cable by inserting a laser beam into the pvc jacket, which is doable with an optical fiber, preferably glass for near-zero loss. Now what copper gauge to use remains a question mark." I found the perfect cable and perfect power cord. It’s Zero gauge cable. No, not 00 gauge, I use no cables or interconnects or power cords. As in Zero. I’m not a big fan of sub-atomic particle interactions. Think outside the box! |