@skyscraper , measure the distance from the spindle to the center of the VTA tower. If it is anywhere near 222 mm you are in business. Even if not, you have a very thick platter and there is loads of space to mount an accessory arm board. The unit I saw had one mounted. If you want to mount another tonearm it is child's play to do so, it not then we can end this thread here.
VPI Fatboys versus others in its' tonearm weight class.
In their never ending quest to push fiscally responsible audiophiles into bankruptcy, site members have succeeded in making me consider a new gimbaled tonearm to keep a Lyra Kleos company on a VPI Classic 2 turntable. Dover, on my previous thread, pointed out most other tonearm options would be limited on the Classic 2 short of major surgery to it. So here I am considering keeping the tonearm upgrade in the VPI family. Their gimbaled Fatboy, will readily fit onto the VPI Classic 2’s tonearm base without any fuss.
Here’s my question after reading up on the Fatboy. How does the Fatboy compare with other tonearms in it’s $4500 price range? Is it about average in that class, which would be acceptable, or is it much better or worse than its’ peers?. If you.ve had any chance to compare the Fatboy with other tonearms in the same price range, what is your impression? I don’t want to spend that much money on one if the consensus is that it’s at the bottom of its class, which hopefully it isn’t.
I haven’t had an opportunity to listen to one, or any other tonearm as expensive. I would likely need to arrange a two day road trip to accomplish that. In lieu, I’m soliciting your impressions as to whether the Fatboy is worth that much compared to others in it’s price range. I guessing it will be okay, but don’t want to spend $4500 if the consensus is it’s at the bottom of its’ class just because it fits easily on my turntable. So what do you think? I’m all ears.
I’m not looking here for alternative solutions to a Fatboy. That was the topic of my recent thread, I’m only soliciting your impressions of the Fatboy compared to other similarly priced tonearms, and why I should or shouldn’t take a chance on it. Thanks all,
Mike
82 responses Add your response
Dodgealum, when it arrives, I’ll be putting the Lyra Kleos on my current tonearm. The VPI Fatboy is going to be a future purchase for budgetary reasons. Thanks for describing the way the sound improved with your 3D arm. the Fatboy likely delivers more of the same since it’s also 3D printed, along with other improvements. I read one review that said the same thing you described with your 3D unipivot arm. That is there is a more detailed performance than you ger with the gimbaled arm, With the gimbaled Fatboy the trade off is described is a more solid base response than you get with he unipivot. Guess you can’t have both.. Did your 3D come with a choice of arm lengths? I was reading up yesterday on why you might chose one length over the other of the three different lengths VPI offers the Fatboy in of 9", !0" or 12". It’s another complexity to try and understand. Mike |
I’ve had my share of VPI tables and have upgraded arms within the brand BUT never got to a fat boy—only to a hot rod version of the 3D gimble. That said, in my experience the two most significant changes you can make sonically is going 3D from aluminum and going gimbal from unipivot. IME the 3D arm provides a much smoother and more natural sound than the aluminum tube. This is very easy to hear and welcome. The gimbal arm is easier to handle but does not extract as much detail from the grooves, leaving some realism on the table. If it were me and I had the table in the pictures you provided I’d slap the Kleos on the existing arm and see what happens before changing the arm. Part of the fun is in the learning so see what a nice cart does compared to your Ortofon Quintet Red which is vastly inferior to the Lyra. |
Lewm, the more I look into it, the more the VPI Fatboy seems to be the logical choice. I’ve emailed VPI a week ago to see if they feel the Fatboy is compatible with the Lyra Kleos cartridge I have on order, but haven’t heard back yet. I think I read a Lyra cartridge was used to demo the Fatboy at an audio show when first introduced. But I would like to get that match confirmed by them with the current iteration of the gimbaled Fatboy. They offer the Fatboy in three different lengths, 9’, !0" and 12".. It would be nice if they answered to be able to figure out which to choose. Mike |
Lewm. The VPI Classic 2’s tonearm is composed of a number of interconnected platforms, arranged somewhat in the manner of how you might picture a split level house.is constructed. All the various platforms sit on a fair sized round disk attached to the plinth. Its not readily apparent how the lowest disk is attached to the plinth, or how easily it could be removed to retrofit another tonearm. Could be it’s sitting in a big round hole, or screwed in from underneath, or some other arrangement. It would take some exploratory surgery to figure this out to see if another tonearm mechanism could be attached to the plinth. Might turn out to be something simple, might not. It might be possible drill. three holes in the uppermost platform where the JMW 10.5i arm sits on it’s pivot to place another tonearm mechanism, but this is unlikely as the new tonearm would probably sit way too high. If the Fatboy sounds a bit worse than any of the tonearms you mentioned, I’ll live with it, rather than take a chance on mutilating the Classic 2 turntable or otherwise making a mess. I’m either being realistic about my DIY skills, or simply. too lily livered. Appreciate your thoughtful suggestion anyway.
|
From skyscraper’s photos and Dover’s post, it does seem that the tonearm is "surface-mounted" on the plinth. Apparently there is a wide diameter hole that can’t be seen in photos, which permits the vertical shaft of the VPI tonearm to penetrate the surface of the plinth. This arrangement does not at all preclude the possibility that another true surface-mounted tonearm, like a Triplanar or any Reed tonearm could be mounted, if skyscraper is willing to drill three very small screw holes needed to fasten any of the named tonearms in place. The TP, the Reeds (and the Dynavector DV505) reside entirely on the top side of the deck; they have no vertical shaft that needs to penetrate its surface. In my book, drilling the small screw holes for fasteners does not damage or de-value the turntable any more than its age, place in the VPI pecking order (it’s not the latest version of the Classic, after all), and general desirability. Anyway, I apologize for being one of the protagonists for changing the brand of the tonearm. As to the Fatboy, there seems to be general consensus that it is superior to the original. Plus, the mating between tonearm and cartridge (not tonearm and turntable) is the major determinant of "success", which really boils down to a matter of opinion. So, given skyscraper’s reluctance to do any mods, why not buy the Fatboy and then take care to mate it to a cartridge that complements the characteristics of a Fatboy, and then listen. This is how one grows as an audiophile, not by asking advice from we who are strangers. |
I would recommend that you contact the analogue team at Upscale Audio, either Kat or Sean-Paul. Upscale is the largest VPI authorized dealer in the country and really know much in the way of maximizing performance from VPI products. They will know best about what to do in order to maximize the SQ of your Kleos cartridge and offer solid advice, within your budget. I hope this helps. |
Dover, thanks , I’ll check out your linked discussion straight away. Tablejockey, so true. I do hear what you’re sayiing, loud and clear. Thanks. I’m forewarned.. It is all too easy to get caught up in this stuff. Especially when enabled here and you’ve a few bucks in your pocket. Three thousand for a cartridge has already certainly been enough of an expense. You can see how I miss the tempering influence of my late wife, who’d have shared your assessment, not to mention was feisty enough to have laid down the law. Good couple of posts. Made me laugh too. Mike |
Tablejockey, enjoyable is what I’ll likely end up settling on rather than optimum performance. The turntable you linked to is certainly a nice one, but realistically out of the picture due to its’ price tag. I put a bundle into a whole new system a couple or so years ago and don’t wish to continue spending on it. However I think I underspent on a cartridge when I originally laid out a budget for my new system. So primarily I’m looking to make up for that oversight. I’m not thrilled that I should be looking for a new tonearm for my new Lyra Kleos cartridge on order. But I am willing to consider the possibilities if it would truly enhance my system’s performance, and fit my budget down the road. With the stock market tanking, inflation and other unrelated expenses, that may be down the road a good piece. It’s interesting listening to folks opinions which are all over the place. But not to worry, I’ve a level head when it comes to making choices and spending resources. It doesn’t hurt to ask though, and doesn’t cost a thing. Since it’s a mutual interest, I enjoy hearing what you all have to say too. It’s not like anybody I usually run into would know anything about this stuff. Take it easy. Mike |
skyscraper, Based on the recent threads/posts, you may be under the spell of uncurbable audio neurosis. The Kleos will be a substantial sonic upgrade on the stock arm. Since you won't have another identical table next to it to compare with a "better" arm, you simply won't know just what the upgrade is really worth. The Kleos potential wont be fully realized until one has at least $10-15K table/arm setup WITH an equally competent phonostage. Your existing setup will however, present an enjoyable listening experience. You could always sell your table and get this. Keep the Classic look, get accurate speed(The Classic series without speed control just aren't accurate) and the gimbal arm. Not a bad price for what's offered. With negotiation, someone could get a nice setup for a reasonable price.
|
Badgerdms, so would it be wrong to think you don’t feel the Fatboy would be that much of an improvement over the current JMW 10.5i SE, as it’s limited by the VPI "house sound"? I’d be horrified if I spent $4500 on one and couldn’t hear a substantial performance difference. I don’t mind the sound of the current VPI tonearm, having nothing to compare it to. I’m only getting convinced it wouldn’t be up to the performance level of the Lyra Kleos.I really wish there was any place near here to go and listen to other possible choices as you suggest. But that would be too easy. Thanks for your input, Mike |
I got out of the VPI parade last year, so my opinion is that no matter what you change in the VPI universe the house sound is kind of the house sound. A little more of this vs a little more of that. If you like the Classic 2, stay with your current arm. If you are really looking to upgrade go hear some other arms on other tables. |
| Post removed |
Gentlemen, below are a couple of pictures, front and back, of the model VPI Classic 2 I own. To me this tonearm set up looks like a fairly complex mechanism in total, that I’d be afraid to mess with. For those of you with expertise in this field, it may be easy pickings to deal with. But I’m not at the place where this is somewhere I want to go. It is doubtless you could getter a better tonearm onto the Classic 2 readily with your admirable knowledge and skills, but please understand that process is more than I want to deal with now. So I’ll have to settle for less than the best, as long as the Fatboy is a reasonable choice. At this point I’d like to find out if the Fatboy would be a a good replacement for my current tonearm, maybe not the best, but hopefully not the worst in it’s class. I am hoping this thread might address that concern. Mike’s suggestion the Fatboy is run of the mill, but certainly better than what I have now is more the type input I’m looking for right now.
|
|
I have never seen a VPI Classic but if what Mijo says is true, if you do have a removable mount, then why are we even here? You can have any tonearm you want provided the P2S distance is not crazily different from the OEM tonearm, simply by replacing the mount. You can probably acquire a replacement from VPI, or Mijo, or a sympathetic local machinist. And you won’t have to compromise the originality of the deck itself. |
What Harry says should be discounted. This is the guy that said anti skating was detrimental. @skyscraper , It is a run of the mill gimbal arm certainly better than what you have and an easy swap but, it has deficiencies that would keep it from being an arm I would consider. If you want a more accurate assessment of what can me mounted on your table without much surgery take close up pictures of your tonearm base and if you can, the bottom side of the turntable and closeup of the area underlying the arm. The only measurement I need is your current spindle to pivot distance in mm please. Send them to me and I will give you a good idea of what can be done. From pictures I have seen It looks like it has a small removable tonearm board, very easy to copy. An ebony board would look killer. Any surface mount arm like the Reeds or the Tri Planar will mount easily if the length is right. It also looks to me like your current tonearm board is simply screwed down to the surface of the turntable. This means you can easily mount boards of various sizes and mount them using the same holes so no modification need to be done to the plinth itself. If you were to send me the old tonearm board it would take me about 30 minutes to make a new one. Shop time is $140/hour. The ebony would cost you another $30.00 |
Noromance, me too. I’ve found vey few reviews online about Fatboys either. One review was more or less glowing, the other more reserved in its’ praise, Other were more short and sweet, along the lines of "Here’s a great new product". I’ve yet to look through the annual product reviews or "Best of" lists like Stereophile or other audio mags run, so maybe something will show up there.I’ve also found a little bit in Audiogon and other audio forums, but not a great deal. The VPI Fatboys have been out at least a few years now, so somebody must have noticed them and have an opinion, Or maybe this thread can turn into a definitive exposition on Fatboys and their ilk in this price range. We’ll see. There’s a lot of expertise here, So hopefully this thread on Fatboys will take off tomorrow and we can both learn something here. I’d really welcome peoples advice on a major purchase like this. On the other hand I may get lucky and make an uninformed, but fortuitous decision. More likely not. Mike |
Stringreen, I meant to ask for comparisons of the Fatboy to other similarly priced brands of tonearms. I’m hoping for comparison to gimbaled tonearms only amongst those. I should have been clearer. Fuzztone, you’re so right. The last time I tried to stay in a hotel on Long Island some fitfeen yeats ago, a hotel we stopped at asked for a thousand dollars for one nights stay. It wasn’t the Ritz either. At least we could afford the gas to get there then. Haven’t slept in the car since traveling cross country as a young man, but may have to take your advice if hotels in D.C. are anyway near that price nowadays. Mike |
