Vandie .7 vs Maggie .7

You will never regret purchasing the Maggies. you can order their MMG's for a free in house listen for 30 days.(it's a no brainer!)  if you like them you will love the 1.7's . The  1.7 are way more musical and bigger sound stage. But you can  get an idea what to expect if you purchase the MMGs. for the in home trial. 
I own both models, and use the 1.7's for 2 channel and movies. the MMG's are in the side and rear surround position. But I could live with them up front. I partial to Maggies as I have owned them for the last 38 years. First Pair was the MG1 Improved in '78 or '79 . 

Congrats! Be sure to invest in some heavy, high quality stands.

Please report back with your findings.

Thanks for the thanks.
I am sure the VLR's will exceed your expectations!
Bob

I got the serial numbers and the office said they were made 2014... I feel I got a blessing today!! I paid for them and they will ship tmw...when I get em and hook them up....I'll report back! I'm already thinking I am going to do a small MOD....take the terminal strip OUT and replace the copper binding posts. I also asked RV if there are any upgrade to these   he said no.  Thank you Bob for all your contributions here! Otto

Nice move Otto!
Usually Richard doesn't provide much info on the age of speakers, as he doesn't keep records- Which I find strange. Maybe the seller can give you an idea of how long the original owner kept them.

bob

I found a used pair of VLRs... And I'm about to pull the trigger.. Seller is 2nd owner.. Not sure how old they are... I emailed RV to find out about age....i think I'm putting the ls50 to the side... 

I wouldn't pick gear based on a single review. Jeff's opinion is intriguing but he is already a Vandersteen owner and likely has some level of bias.

I don't agree that the LS50s need "top quality" or high power amplification. I tried them with both of my <100 watt Yamaha amps (one of $500 and one of $2500 MSRP) and they sound great with both. If you listen above 90db much of the time, then you'd probably want a 200 watt+ amp. At moderately loud volume, they're not terribly power hungry. Vandys will certainly be easier to drive, but listen to both of you can swing it. IME, in home auditions are a must when choosing speakers. Let your ears be your final guide.

JR  I will call you tmw,,,,what time do you open...can you give me anything on my 240's?

I just read the full TONE review,,,enjoyed it! I see the LS50's need top quality AMPS to sound their best....something I do NOT have. Jeff said the better the AMP,,,,the better the 50's sounded...and visa versa. Meanwhile the VLR is much more forgiving...and not too demanding. There are no used ones around....probably a telling sign....once you own them....no need to trade up. I'll see what I can get a pair for. I think I'm done....VLR it IS!  With the 1ci;s a close 2nd.

Tom...Bob. excellent!! I tefi did think of the first order crossover ..and how I heard more detail from the 1cis. And I'm very drawn to this fact...and yes..the Ten design principals is Very Strong and makes sense. I'm leaning more tonight on VLRs...I'm selling my 240s no offers yet.  I'll be patient...no close KEFdealers near me..online i see...I'll call Kef usa tomorrow and see if there are. I'll call John tomorrow...I'll also call the local dealer and see if they have tge VLRs to listen too. I feel im getting real close...its either VLRs...1cis or ls50s in that order...what was i thinking...i have to listen to whatever im thinking of buying...until tomorrow...thank you Otto

Otto
call me asap
JohnnyR

the vlr driver is incredibly expensive to build they sound incredible on stands and have real bass output so you can use a sub but still get a great blend.
on a pair of sound anchors or other heavy metal stands they will be awesome. The kef product is quite good also and has a well deserved reputation, listen to both...

one way to think about Vandersteen is the entire line hews to the strict application of about 10 core design principles....so the line sounds very similar. So you get same crossover design philosophy from $1,300 to $62 k, low difraction ditto, easy load, low phase angle ditto, bypass caps, time alignment, patented aerodynamic basketbstructures, pistonic drivers, etc...ditto the list goes on....

but keep listening...

The VLR's are bookshelf speakers and I doubt will go as low as the 1ci.
Though your sub should help with that.
Though I haven't heard either the VLR or the KEF50, I would lean more toward the VLR or the 1ci. And, knowing how you liked the 1ci's, I think you should trust your ears. The Vandersteen sound is addictive.
And, definitely call Johnny R. for more specific advice.
Bob

Just looked up the VLRs... It's a coax speaker just like the Kef.. Interesting.. Also 1395... Same as the 1ci's... This gives me pause... Look at them... The 1ci is bigger... And much different... The small coax is the same money.. Ughhhh  more to obsess... So it's been said here a review from TONE audio felt the VLRs better the 50s in vocals... Well I guess... It's a hard decision... The VLRs new are 600 to 700 more than the used 50s I found... The VLRs may be better.. But are they 600.00 better? 

Thank you Bob and Helomech! We'll my plot thickens! First... I know nothing  ZERO of the VLR'S.... I'll have to start looking at these. Are they in my budget? 2. I did some reading on reviews on LS50's and some user comments... The reviews were positive... User reviews were mixed... From... No bass... Mostly... I have the HSU SUB and his 500.00 electronic crossover.. So I have been hi-passing for many years... I'm even using it with the big Wharfdale 240's...to my ears... Doing this adds clarity... In short.... When I sold hi end audio.. We were an M&K dealer... And got very into hi passing and see the value and concept. When I was a pro musician... Most of the sound systems were bi and TRIampd with crossover. I still have a very excellent MX125... Which is a dual 12 'push-pull' arrangement.. I have  been thinking lately of trying it.. In place of the HSU... Which is an entry line model I bought 10 years ago... Their technology has improved dramatically since then. The MK is in my Desktop PC system. Back to LS50... I read the efficiency is pretty LOW.. 84 OR 86 dB... I'll check that.  Hummm not happy about that. So... I will start down the VLRpath and see if the dealer has them to listen too.  With the reviews on the 50s...with the STRONG comments here on female vocals which is most if what I listen too.. Along with Saxophone and Trumpet... The LS50 sure sounds like a done deal!! I can almost go ahead and buy them... Sight unseen... There is deal on a pr... I found... is that dumb... Always listen first... Then do I listen to the VLR'S... I guess as I type... I must listen... Audio and opinions... I must listen before I buy. I don't want to lose the deal on the 50s....i guess I can always resell them.... At least we're past the Maggie's so you speak... With the introduction of the KEFs into this.. It has thrown me into another place... I'm laughing.. And soooooo appreciate the direction... It's always a blessing to read forums to help someone else in a similar situation.. Work through the current dilemma.... Lmao. I'll look up VLR'S and look for A KEF  DEALER. KEF is another brand I have zero time with. Working for a BW dealer... I did not have any interest in looking up KEFs.  When you listen to the older 805, 802s  801s who cared! Please let me know if on a WHIM I should take a shot and buy the 50s... There are under 900.00

Thank you Otto 

@otto, I am glad you like the Vandy's. They really seem to do things right at a great price point.
For me, I would opt for the 1ci's over a 2ce.  The 1's will be easier to place and set up and also require less power, and if you want later, you can add subs. I owned a pair of 3a sigs, but hated how the Sound Anchors stuck out of the back- Not good in a limited space situation.]
B

If you get a chance to listen to the KEFs, pay attention to the trailing edges of vocal notes, especially female vocals. Both speakers do this well, but I found that the KEFs are just a bit more refined and detailed. They have none of the upper midrange distortion that the 1Ci exhibited with hot recordings.

Jeff Dorgay of Tone Audio claimed to prefer the VLRs over the LS50s, but in his 1Ci review, he says the LS50s have greater resolution and imaging. So I wonder if the VLRs are possibly better than the 1Ci, sans bass extension.

Well.... I listened  to the. 7's and there 1ci's today. Spent about an hour in this shop. First about the equipment used.... CDs were spun by an Audio Research player.. Didn't ask specs and model... Suffice to say... Built like a tank... Had to 10k maybe more. Amp was a Rogue Integrated...all tube... Forgot  the name. It's very popular. Kimber wires. First was the Maggie. Images as expected were bigger then usual. Sound was a little on the soft side... I wish the amp was 100%solid state... As the Rogue is all tube. By soft I mean that mellow tube sound... (I'm generalizing),,, wasn't bad. Timbre was good.. I'm enjoyed them. The dynamics compared to what I'm used to... We're not as "snappy" as to box/dynamic speakers. I've Never had the pleasure in ALL my years sat down and listened to Vandersteen speakers. It took about 20 minutes.. To adjust my brain... And.. I'm short... Lol  I hope... I heard spatial cues.. Information on my CDs I had not heard before. I couldn't believe it. I know the music... And the CDs I brought. I'd have to give it to the Vandys! The only thing through Maggie had better was image size due to yet size of the panel. Vandy is no slouch... It was more precise... Far better bass... There really must be Something to their use of first order crossover. Also... No baffles... Etc..   Price wise.. There about 150.00 apart. I experienced the difference in amplifier power. To run the Maggie's were I was listening.. Volume knob was about 1 o'clock... With 1ci's.. It was 10 o'clock.. 11 was loud. So... I think I have to go Vandy... It's been suggested I listen to the KEF 50s...I'LL have too do this before I settle on the Vandy.
I'll probably obsess for a bit... Over seeking out recent Signatures 2ces...vs the 1ci's. That's going to take luck...no telling where I'll wind up... Maybe I should just settle on near 10 year old 2's  AND NOT try to drill down hard on what the possibilities are vs the 2...im sure there is A break point.. In serial numbers where the newer 1ci's will perform better than older 2ces... Isn't this a wonderful hobby... Lmao.. And there's the possibility that the KEF might best the Vandys... Then it's over.   Now to find a KEF dealer.... And I will call John... John are you reading all my notes here... Take care Otto 

+1000 on Johnny Rutan

John Rutan is the man. He will not steer you wrong.

+4 for Johnny Rutan.
I know he has made systems with the 1ci and Vandy 2wq subs that were quite respectable.

I, too, own a pair of HSU subs, as well as Vandy subs, and I can tell you there is no comparison. The Vandy's integrate seamlessly and unobtrusively. 
In fact, whether you go Maggie or Vandy, get one or two 2wq subs. Both benefit from the added low frequency. And, both work well with Vandersteen subs.
B

Otto it sounds like you are having big fun along the way, which I find important and then settling down to imersing yourself in THE music afterwards...

Funny story circa circa 1983 or so...

Scott the owner of Progressive Audio where I worked yelled into one of the Listening rooms “ Hey Richard Vandersteen is on the phone, wants a word with you....don’t know why....”

Richard proceeds to congratulate me for selling the most Vandersteen product that quarter - he then says you do know we make a Model 2 right ?

Seriously, if you are considering the Kef ( and yes we were a Kef dealer also with 105.2 our best speaker at that time ) I would recommend you give the VLR a listen also, Johnny R probably has them...

Really enjoying everyone's contributions to this discussion. I emailed Vandersteen and the man himself answered. I spent a few days hunting down various Vandy  2ce models. I discovered a few pairs.. 1  from 1996.. Still asking 1500.00  which was very high I thought..another 12 years old at 1200.00  I asked RV about serial numbers.. And he said.. The company just does NOT keep accurate track of this. I tries to get the years and when updates were done.. And many here are correct. He does upgrades when better materials are available.. And does not always publish what is done. He also said this.... The 1ci's would sound better than an older pair of 2ce's!. His feeling is.. The latest technology of the 2 way would better older 2ces. Interesting dilemma. Finding the most recent 2ces I can find in my budget... Probably impossible. The 2ce are a 3 way with dedicated midrange... Where vocals, and jazz lives. Like to hear from the members on this. Many audiophiles would say a good 2 way in many ways beats a lesser designed 3 way. But we're talking about the  same company and  designer. With the sub I don't really need the extra bass if the 2's...its the midrange that's of interest. 
The KEFs... Ah... Another direction... Very cool... I'll have to seek them out and have a listen!! I've always thought... Having a great monitor would be EXACTLY what I'm looking for. On a whim I bought the  HSU bookshelf speakers a few years ago. The reviews and customer satisfaction is very high. Some people said they liked them more than many speakers costing 1'000's more. For 450.00  I went for them  hoping for nirvana. It's a 2 way that uses a horn loaded tweeter. No cigar.... They were good.. But my BW's 603II beat them easily. I sold the 603s to fund the purchase of my current Whafedale 240's which are 3 way instead of 2-1/2.. I'm on my way right now finally to the dealer that sells Magnapan and Vandersteen. Additionally.. Do any follow Steve Guttenberg? He's pretty cool and has been around. He has a YouTube channel.. Called the Audio philac The Maggie. 7's were his Speaker of the year fit 2015.He goes on to RAVE about  this particular model. He's owned 3'4 other Maggie's.. Bigger and. 6s   he goes on to say... There is something about the , 7s that just sounds better to him... It's  very special to him. He owns a few great speakers.. But this model just really makes him smile.  He was running a PASS 25 watt amp with them.. 50 watts at 8 ohms... And not at concert levels... Still... Is very in love with this model. I'll report back today if I get time with both speakers.. I know if I marry the Maggie's a better amp is in my future.... And the Vandies can coexist with my NAD longer. It will be goose bump factor and tonal accuracy that will win.  I'll be back... Then... I'll have to find a KEFdealer to make this more challenging!! Take care Otto 
  

3rd call out for John Rutan at Audio Connection.

They're both good choices.  The 2 is even better, if you can get a recent-ish used pair. (I honestly prefer it to the 3, while acknowledging the latter is less colored) I love the dipole presentation, but you'll need more amp for the .7s.

2nd call out for John Rutan (Audio Connection). If he has both, thats the way to figure it out, along with the vo,umes of system balancing input you;ve received

Tough call here, Vandy's are great all rounders that do a lot well and aren't typically fussy. Maggie's on the other hand are current hungry, need breathing room and (In my opinion) need some additional mod's to really hear what they are capable of. That said, if Jazz and female vocals are your passion then I must say Maggie's when set up properly can be downright sublime. Another option might be MMG's with a small "sealed enclosure" sub, this would give you the Maggie magic and make low level listening more enjoyable.  On the other hand if you just want to add some very fine speakers that will sound good with just about anything you throw at them go with the Vandy's. Tough call you've got but I'd say it's more about how hard you want to work and fuss with your system to get the sound you are after, keep us posted and by all means go and listen to them both.

@tomic601

Being that I had to set the treble attenuator 1.5db down to achieve my preferred tonal balance with the 1Cis, I’m doubtful the VLRs would work for me. They don't include the trim pot. Also, I noticed upper midrange sibilance in the 1Cis, even after break-in, and fear the VLRs might have the same issue. Otherwise, they’re a very attractive design.

try a Vandersteen VLR to discover what is missing if you dig LS50...

Since you already use a good sub and high-pass crossover, definitely consider KEF LS50s or the Reference 300s. Unlike the others, they’re not finicky about placement. 8’ is practically near-field, so your room size is not a detriment unless you’re a bass junkie. With the exception of low octave extension, the KEFs are simply better in every way. They even trump 1.7s with vocals. I was quite stoked with the performance value of the 1Cis, but the LS50s take the crown. Their current price is a steal and icing on the cake. You could put the savings toward a better amp.

As for used 2Cs, not a bad idea, but keep in mind that Vandersteen is constantly making slight, unpublished revisions to those models. The current 1Ci has a superior tweeter to the older 2Cs, so I agree that you'd do well to seek out a used pair of 2C sigs.

try to get the signatures
Vandersteen ran a trade promo recently that may have put some old model 2 into dealers....but IF you can swing the signatures you will find them pretty incredible.....

No acoustic treatment... The electronics are nestled in a square concrete walled cove.. 10x10x10  I sit in front of this cove.. 8 ft away... I considered putting some corner pillows in the 2 corners if the cover... I run the sub right next to my listening chair (a lazy boy couch),, as Dr. HSU suggests... Near field sub. 

I never considered used 2's   hummm that's a great idea! I'd have to get lucky.. Same or lower then new 1ci's 1395.00? 
Really.. I'll search for it. 

Thank you Otto 

You’ve mentioned your room. Most all our rooms have issues. After acoustic treatment in my dedicated room my system sounded considerably better than any other change I have done. Definitely consider budgeting for that.

Tom

tend to agree with Tom on model 2..... with a strong caveat - imo you need a rock solid amp to control the low end ( which is formidable) on the 2

Otto - good for you - thinking it thru...there is a growing cadre of fine dealers who carry both Maggie and Vandy
if you can build that false wall it would help for sure.....
i am a female vocal junkie myself....the 7’s are singing with some sweet Linda R right now......

for grins next time I chat with Richard Vandersteen I will mention renaming the ones to .7
he should get a kick out of it

imo any decent dealer will lend you both....

Otto - good for you - thinking it thru...there is a growing cadre of fine dealers who carry both Maggie and Vandy
if you can build that false wall it would help for sure.....
i am a female vocal junkie myself....the 7’s are singing with some sweet Linda R right now......

for grins next time I chat with Richard Vandersteen I will mention renaming the ones to .7
he should get a kick out of it

imo any decent dealer will lend you both....

Just saw the OPs last post AFTER I posted. Doh!

You didn’t mention the size of your room, is it dedicated, do you have acoustic treatment...?
Both speakers you are considering are very good.
Maggies need more space and more watts. A lot more.
Used Vandy model 2s sounds better than new model 1s for the same (or less) money.
Both will only sound their best with considerable investment of time to determine best position in the room.
The Vandies will sound much better at really low volumes, IMO.

Tom

I'm glad I logged back in the forum as I did not get a notice of replies. I'm  thrilled to see all the replies. 
Let me add this... I constantly hear and see that I'm going to have to spend BIG Dollars on an amp or mono's if I'm going to get the Maggie's. There is a dealer 15 Mile's away who sells both!!! 

I so appreciate the comments... For the record, I'm going to replace the NAD 326 integrated. It's a great piece... I got curious about the Saga and its better than the 326 preamp section.. But not by a huge amount... But enough... Soooooo... It's looking like I should seriously consider the 1ci..due to budget and real world considerations. I did not mention I sold high audio in the 90's...best speakers in the store were BW",'s  and Martin Logan... Also sold Klipsh... Paradigm... MK.. All good stuff. Let me also provide to all.. That the room my system is in.. Is terrible... I'm downstairs in an "unfinished" basement. Yes I know all too well.. The room is the ultimate and MOST important factor. Throw 25k of equipment into a crappy room.. Is a self defeating exercise. 

I set up an 8 ft triangle within a h
Big basement.

With the left speaker having a wall to reflect from... Where as the right speaker opens to nothing... The nearest side wall is 30 ft to the right. 

Knowing this I'm sure you might all say Maggie's will never work... I thought i would toe them in.. Tweeters to the inside... I might totally fail... Don't know.  When I audition both.. Who knows I may been so taken with the Vandies that I will be spared the reality that the Maggie are too rich for my blood. 

I love to listen to female vocals... Saxophone.. Jazz.. Najee.. Roy Hargrove... Also like new age.. 

The Whafedales are very good.. But I'm ready to see what these 2 speakers are like. More... I own the higher end HSU crossover and their sub. I have been hi-passing my amps. Doing this. Gives me more amp headroom and relieves my mains from 90hz and below. Many might sneer.. Yuck.. Not a fan.. But to my ears hi passing does add clarity from my mains that I like. 

Ive also taken the route of stand mounted monitors. Physics being what they are... Smaller baffles... Small sound stage. This is why... I'm looking to no baffle with the 1ci and the big panel. 7's.  In closing... Maybe I will never overcome this room and no amount of equipment will make it sound good. 

Today... I even thought.. Maybe I should build a side wall to the right out to equal the distance of the left wall... This being the only solution. 

I very much appreciate all the replies... I'm not a big forum poster... I thought I would give it a go and share my thoughts. 

Thank you very much Otto 

John Rutan at Audioconnection in New Jersey sells both, is very easy to talk to, and is extremely knowledgeable.  Even if you don't live in NJ, give him a call for wonderful advice.  You won't be sorry.

Vandersteen, but I am biased having sold them many moons ago and currently have 7’s and Treo on order

many Vandy dealers will demo the 1 with a NAD, Marantz or other value oriented integrated amp, and it will sound great.

the Maggie’s have many virtues for sure but your amp is going to limit you.
i should disclose I am not anti planar, I have a set of Apogee Stages in my vintage room

where are you at, can probably recommend a dealer...

I have not heard either specific current models, but i have heard a LOT of Vandersteens over the years, and some of my dealers were RV's dealers.  I owned 2s, 2Ces and 2Cis and had my electronics driving the full-on 5 system at a couple of local dealers. I even heard the old 1Bs (back when the 1 series were an inexpensive, 2-way system, at roughly $700/pr.) I date myself.

Given that you have modest (but yes, good) and lowish power electronics, that has to be a consideration - and Vandys are among the easiest speakers to drive. Not only are they relatively efficient, but their impedance is pretty easy on electronics.  Always musical, they respond well to better input material and to good setup in the room.  Vandersteens' sins are those of omission, not commission.

You really need to listen for yourself, but with $10k worth of equipment driving them in a dealer, it may not reflect your real-world situation -- and i try to avoid the "slippery slope", or "cookies and milk" or whatever you call the spiral that can result :-)

G

I think Kalali said best. With your equipment the Vandy's should sound better. If you can eventually get a 2wq sub or two, you will way ahead of the game-Vandy subs use a crossover that alleviates the power demands of low frequencies on your amp. So, you can get a speaker system about  as good as a pair of 3a sigs-possibly better.
And, yes I do love the Maggie sound. They just need more power to open up.
B

bottomline - they are both xlnt

In the 1990s I tested Vandie 2c I owned vs. maggie 1.5's I'd just bought - spent a month - listened every night - no TV - varied source material

Finally, I decided to sell the Vandies but it was a difficult decision.

OTOH, I think Maggie has evolved more rapidly than vandy since then so it may not be so hard a decision.  The 1.7's are really nice

if you listen only to rock maybe V

if you listen to a lot of jazz, female vocals, likely M

I’m surprised you haven’t received any responses.

I owned the Maggie 1.7is and the Vandy 1Cis. Overall, I think the 1Cis are the better speaker. The 1.7s require 80db ^ volumes to really open up. At lower volumes, they sound anemic and have little dynamics.

The 1Cis have deeper bass and are far less power hungry. Additionally, they have a more realistic timbre and decay. To my ears, they’re superior in every way, with the exception of midbass speed and slight distortion in the upper midrange of some songs.

I’ve since moved onto KEF LS50s. These speakers are about as musical as the Vandys, but have a more refined midrange. They don’t sound as "open" but have a wide sweet spot that doesn’t require painstaking setup. My room is rather large for the KEFs, so I fill in the lowest octaves with a sub.

Even though I used resistors with the Maggie’s and the treble attenuator of the Vandys, some recordings were still overly ripe in treble. My Yamaha amp has tone controls but I never reach for them with the KEFs

For reference, my ears are 32 years old. I’m not a musician but have many musicians in my family (my daughter currently plays the viola) and I’m familiar with the sound of live instruments. When shopping for my reference system earlier this year, I auditioned dozens of speakers under $5K and concluded my search with Spendor SP2/3R2s.