I HAD AN EXPERIENCE WITH UPS DROPPING A MAC AMP OFF IN MY OPEN GARAGE FOR ALL THE WORLD TO SEE. WHEN I TRACKED THE PACKAGE AND READ THAT THEY HAD DELIVERED IT AT 6:30 PM (AT THIS TIME IT WAS 9:30 PM) I WENT TO THE GARAGE AND LO AND BEHOLD IT WAS GONE. I CONTACTED THE SELLER WHO THEN PROCEEDED WITH THE INSURANCE CLAIM FOR 1000.00 AND WITHIN A 3 WEEK PERIOD THEY PAID THE SELLER WHO IN TURN REFUNDED MY MONEY. IT ALL WORKED OUT FINE IN THE END, BUT JEEZ, DON'T YOU THINK THAT THE DRIVER COULD HAVE USED A LITTLE BIT MORE COMMON SENSE? BY THE WAY THE PACKAGE WAS TO BE SIGNED FOR. |
It looks like the private shipper charged for insurance but didn't pay UPS for shipping insurance, so UPS payed the private shipper 100.00 total for repairs and that all they are willing to pay. So off to the Court House for the Small Claims Forms.....We will see where we go from here??? |
If they don't like the box you are using they should tell you before they take your money for insurance. This person sent me the amps in the factory boxes with at least 3 inchs of packing foam around it and they still ruined it. And not only that, they tell me they have to pay the shipper. So if they pay anyone, which I doubt, I will have to get it from the shipper (if they ever get it). |
Pretender, if these truly are "large" speakers, i would check into going motor freight. You will have better luck using that method than you would with UPS. While i'm not saying that they are the best out there, i have had very good luck over the years using Overnite Express. Their prices were lower than any of "the big three" i.e. Roadway, Consolidated Freightways, Yellow. This is probably due to the fact that most Overnite terminals are non-union, do there is less overhead involved. The shipments that i've sent through Overnite were also delivered in a more timely fashion and arrived in better shape. Since it is a non-union company, employees that slack-off or get caught handling shipments roughly or damaging property will get fired, not just reprimanded with a letter.
One other suggestion and this applies to anyone shipping speakers. Speaker terminals should be "shunted" or "shorted" together. By this i mean using a low value resistor ( 2 - 8 ohms ) connected from the positive to negative binding posts of the speaker. If you don't have access to something like this ( Radio Shack has them and you don't need anything bigger than a 1/4 to 1/2 watt ), you can use a piece of small gauge wire instead but the resistor is preferred.
What this does is "lock" the voice coils of the drivers in place. This greatly reduces the amount of movement or "throw" that the driver can make. It is being held in place by the natural magnetic field within the driver itself. This minimizes the potential for damage since the driver won't be allowed to "bottom out" or "over throw" if the package is dropped or shipped upside down, sideways, etc... The resistor absorbs any voltage generated by the driver, which WILL end up moving a little bit no matter what. It is one of those "ounce of prevention" type of deals... Sean
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Karls, I am going by what UPS told me is required to get them to honor a claim. Am passing on what I was told by a senior person at UPS. |
Bamafan, NEVER ship just in the factory packaging, always put that inside another NEW box with at least 2" of insulation all around. The reason I say this: I once shipped a CAL cd player in its original factory packaging (which was very good, btw). It was damaged and ups refused the claim, saying that they would not insure reused boxes. I got the last laugh, though. I told them to send it back to me, and they lost it on the return trip! They paid full retail immediately, since I had it insured for that. I never ship components now without putting them in a second (new) box. At least it takes one excuse away from them. |
I have a good one.
I sold a McIntosh MC-352, insured for purchase price, $3,000, shipped BOLTED to the plywood, all factory original crates, and left. The company somehow knocked off the binding posts, broke a heat sink, etc. I file the claim, and after 4 months of work, they paid $2,000. I wrote down $3,000, but they only charged me for $2,000. Now, the next battle will need to start. Which prevails?
Dan |
Several years ago I purchased a used pair of Thiel 3.5
speakers from a dealer out of state. UPS delivered them
with one of the speaker grills broken. I filed a claim,
and got the typical runaround for several weeks, finally
an inspector came to the house to inspect the damage
and I ultimately was reimbursed. However, it wasn't easy
or user-friendly. |
UPS is usually very strict about electronic equipment being packed in its original containers for the insurance to cover it. They also told me that if an item has been shipped more than 2 times already go ahead and get new packing materials as it loses efficiency by a rate of 50% each time it is shipped.
I have had one claim against UPS and it was paid within a week. Only took one phone call by me. Sounds like that is an exception to the rule |
Thanks Sean:
Yes, I am quite sure that I can do a better job packing my items myself. As a matter of fact, I have never had a problem yet with damages. However, I am now faced with the prospect of shipping some large speakers--and there is no way that I can double box them, or even add extra packing material. I will have to rely on the original boxes/packing. My line of thought was that if I had them actually put the speakers in the boxes, and if something were to happen, that I would have an easier time collecting from their insurance company than UPS/FEDEX... |
Pretender, some of the worst packed items that i have ever received came courtesy of a "mailboxes, etc" or "Pak-n-ship" type of service. The episode that i mentioned previously with the amp hanging out of the box was packed and shipped courtesy of one of these types of services. Besides doing a horrible job ( my experience ), their prices are absolutely ridiculous.
I had a piece that i was going to purchase from someone in Nevada. I told them that it would run about $12 - $15 to ship it to me here in Chicago. While they thought i was crazy with the shipping price i mentioned, they went to get an estimate. They took it to their usual shipper ( one of these "3rd party" shippers ) whom they said that they had been using for over 4 years. They were quoted $42. Needless to say, i refused to pay that amount of shipping on a very small, lightweight box. I stressed that they should go directly to a UPS terminal and do some "comparison shopping". The UPS price was $13 for the same package with the same insurance. Needless to say, they were VERY upset with the "3rd party" shipping service that had been stabbing them for several years.
Ericbee: I've seen other people make mention of this tactic. Your approach seems very well thought out and i may put it to use if i run into problems in the future. I just hope that i ( or anyone else here ) has to resort to such tactics. Sean
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Has anyone tried one of the packaging/shipping services such as Pak Mail? I was told that if I pay the extra charge to have them package an item that I want to ship, that it would be covered under their insurance policy--thereby avoiding UPS or FEDEX hassles. I am curious if anyone has had better luck when filing a claim through one of these outfits... |
All you need to do is go to the local small claims court and spend $10 to file a claim. Within days of getting served, the person who can pay you will call YOU. You won't need to call anyone or speak to uneducated reps who can do nothing for you. Once it hits legal, you have reached the department that can ACT and not BS. I even charge them the $10 for the court filing fee or make them show up in court. No chance that will happen, everything will be settled very quickly.
For the record, anytime I have a claim I file all of the paperwork and then go straight to small claims court. I don't waste a second. If they pay me quickly than I don't show up for the court date and it was the best 10 bucks I could have wasted. If they give me the runaround, I am already scheduled for court so one way or another I have a timeline for some action and I have never had to go before a Judge in the 4 times I filed, they always settle provided you had insurance and the package was packed properly, which I always do. |
TT's are the most heavily damaged audio item that gets shipped. Most people don't secure the arms and platter correctly and all hell breaks loose ( literally ). Then again, one of my friends has literally had a TT delivered where the wooden base was split at the seems and the spindle bent. There is no accounting for poor handling even if well packed.
I think that the next one on the list is heavy amplifiers. Due to the bulk and weight, they get dropped or tossed because they don't want to carry them from point A to point B. I have had amps delivered that had rack handles ripped off of the faceplate and heat sink fins broken off. The funny thing is that United Package Smashers actually attempted to deliver one of them with 1/3 of the amp hanging outside of the box : )
If everybody took the time to pack accordingly, we wouldn't have as many claims. I'm not sticking up for United Package Smashers or Fed Up, but we all know how the packages will be handled and should pack accordingly.
As mentioned above, stick to your guns and pressure the shipper to deal with the situation. They will do EVERYTHING possible to get out of paying a claim, so keep that in mind when working to resolve the situation. Sean
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Well I'm not going to give up, I was interested in other peoples input, because maybe they have had better luck than I am having right now, but I have all the time in the world. All they have to do is pay me and I'll go away. |
I have a friend who has a friend who knows a guy who has recieved a claim check from UPS :)
But all kidding aside this has been covered before and what Perfectimage says is the way it works, play the game and you will be fine. |
Similar experience with FedEx. They destroyed a VPI TNT MKIV turntable, arm and cartridge in March. Filed the insurance claim, returned the buyer's money, communicated via phone, email finally resorted to writing the CEO. It's been 2 weeks since I emailed the CEO and founder and still no response. I'm left with no option other than legal. Having shipped over a hundred components via FedEx, i'm a card carrying FedEx account holder and believe they do a much better job than UPS, nevertheless, their customer service even with insured items is horrible. |
I think ups denies all claims at first, with damage, in hopes that you wont persue it but dont be fooled. You have a lot of options.
First of all they have a legal responsibility to cover something because there is a implied warrenty to get it there in one piece nevr mind after adding insurance.
Call and push them. If they deny you ask to contest it.
If you get to impatient call your local Attourney generals offce. Information will have the number and this is a goverment organization designed to help people in your exact situation. They do this for free, are familiar with all the local laws, and will tell you all your legal rights and what you can do about it.
You can also call the better business burue and from there you can call both agencies in the area that the ups main office resides in.
Dont be intimidated by ups and call these agencies. |
They lost an amplifier I sent to a buyer in Chicago, luckily I insured it , but they paid me within about 3 weeks.
Perhaps I was lucky this time, UPS is the worst shipper around. |
