Uneven room dimensions/reflections = uneven toe in as solution?


It’s challenging in my room to create a sound stage that is distributed equally between the speakers. That is, to have the center in the center means that there is a slight preponderance of sound on one side versus the other. This is due to the rooms  asymmetrical  dimensions and asymmetrical ceiling, and partially glass and partially furniture in front of the speakers. All of this needs to be as it is for reasons not related to audio. I’ve tried various solutions and I am now experimenting with toeing in one of the speakers, the one on the weaker side, to try to accentuate it’s half of the stereo sound. Has anyone else tried this?  Or does anyone have any other solutions for me? I don’t have a balance control on any of my equipment or it might be much easier to fix this. It’s not a terrible problem and I am mostly mentioning this because I have a little free time and I’m curious. Thank you ahead of time. 

128x128m669326

It's hard to divorce oneself from visual symmetry, but you're on the right path.

Listening is key, eyes closed if necessary.

Also, REW measuring helps -- scan left and right individually to see what's happening and how changes in room arrangements might affect acoustic assymetries.

I done so successfully, but had the dominant speaker firing straight into the room and the less dominant speaker towed slightly more to the listening position (in my case/room).

On the extreme I used to set a pair of Reynaud Twin speakers so that I could listen from the sofa on the left side of the room.

I didn't move the stands, just towed in the furthest away speaker until the channels were balanced.

I placed tape markers on the top of the stands in order to make switching back easier.

This said, I have an unusual asymmetrical/lopsided "U" shaped room with a galley kitchen divided from the living room by a wall 1/3 the length of the space.

 

DeKay

I need that symmetry so I couldn't live with different toe-in angles. However, you can also try varying the distance a little from the front wall. Pull the speaker exhibiting less output forward a 1/8" at a time until you balance the sound. 

Otherwise, you could try absorption/diffusion panels placed evenly at the first reflection points. There are panels on stands that you could move out of the way when not in use.

Thanks. At the moment I have the dominant one facing straightahead and the less dominant one towed in just a bit. It certainly makes things better. I will keep experimenting. I know that both speakers are putting out the same decibel levels. I’ve checked that. It’s just a super complicated room in which lots of experimenting will probably get the job done. 

Toed in. Sorry. I’m a writer, too. Sinful.

I should also mention that there’s a possibility my hearing isn’t exactly equal from one ear to the next at this stage of my life.

Just pull the weaker sounding speaker a little closer to you. Experiment with 1/2 or more. I have the same issue and 1 inch closer dialed it in for me.

You might try just shifting you listening seat a little toward the weak side. Not much...just until you get a solid center image.

Dear @m669326  : I understand you owned the Loki eq. and if still you own then use it and if not buy a new one due that's almost inexpensive.

 

Regards and enjoy the MUSIC NOT DISTORTIONS,

R.

m669326:

Sorry about the "towed".

But, on the bright side I didn't mention photoes in my post.

 

DeKay

When I upscaled my streamer and my DAC, I disconnected the Loki for a while, and then recently connected it again because my room still seems to make things a bit bright. Unfortunately, it doesn’t have a balance control. I’m using it to boost the lower frequencies and I like the way that has turned out.

 

Would be great to see photos of your system and its venue under you system ID. This helps enormously in understanding the problem and coming up with helpful recommendations.

My speakers have a backwards rake, however I find the soundstage better if they are at zero rake, maybe even -1 or -2 degrees, due to their height with tweeter above ear level. Also I have a very unsymmetrical relatively small (3.1 x 4.5 m) room including angled walls, built in cupboards etc. A minidsp and 2 subs have resolved this. Also uneven toe in and uneven distance can help. 

Every reason to move speakers around a little to get the sound that pleases you best.

If it sounds good to you that's what matters.

My room is fairly large (8.3 x 6.1 x 2.3 m) and symmetrical, and the speakers sound best playing from the short 6.1 m wall. However, the left side has windows while the right has shelves with LPs. So the left sound is brighter, the right darker. I adjust the right speaker a little bit further out into the room, but I toe them in to the same amount. I adjust this with a laser distance meter, and prefer the sound when the axes of the front drivers cross a meter or so behind the listener position.

Perhaps you should consider room correction. HAF (Home Fidelity Audio) will produce convolution filters for ROON based on measurements you take of the room. Very reasonably priced. Great customer service. They will walk you through the process until you're satisfied. I've been extremely pleased with several sets of their filters over the years. 

Somewhat similar situation with a a fairly narrow, asymmetrical room.  For me it took finding the right speakers that worked the best within my limitations.  Martin Logan ESL's were the answer.  Because of their narrow horizontal dispersion and line array type design, they eliminated most of the reflection issues I was having and took a lot of the room out of the equation.

I realize switching speakers is not an easy, simple solution, so my suggestion is to play around with placement and add some room treatments, if possible.  Balance issues can often be mitigated by a combination of absorption and diffusion.

@m669326 Got exactly the same problem here, and trying the same solutions. Asymmetrical toe-in helps, and is not a deal-breaker to my eyes. Agree that adding EQ/balance control and room treatment can get you near what you might hear in an optimal listening environment.

Another option, set toe-in to cross just in front of the listening position.  This will negate early sidewall reflections.  Also, sitting closer to the speakers results in less room sound.

You might also consider speakers that have a narrower or more focused sound stage.