Ultimate Integrated amps

Aavik I-880 $70k.

@swede58 ,

Yes, Indeed. I had a home demo of Gryphon Diablo 300 and it was just fantastic amp. I did like it very much and saving for it. Superb bass, smooth highs, darkish sound with a lot of mass and thick thick midrange. It produces a wall of sound, very very big soundstage. My speakers are Harbeth M40.3XD, DAC - Mola Mola Tambaqui.

 

 

@dinus777  Thanks for the clarification. The Diablo 300 is a 85 pound beast of an integrated amp and can probably drive any speaker out there.

swede58,

I asked that mag about measurements. 

reply is :

"The measurements for max current are done with a single pulse 10 k signal, and ample recovery time after each pulse, so it is a true max current measurement. Pos and neg stand for the positive and negative half cycle of the single 10k pulse." 

 

So Diablo300 is 1750W into 1 ohm , with peak current 238A/268A.

 

Pass labs INT250 is 280W into 1 ohm and with peak current  surprisingly
low and also asymmetrical 21/31A.

 

Luxman 509X  is 204W into 1 ohm and with peak current 104/107A.

 

 

 

An excellent list of contenders as above. Any Current rating  above 60(A) is quite significant.  Season's Greetings!

 

Happy Listening!

To put it simple, there is no ultimate int amp.

 

it will depend on synergy with your amp and source.

 

Also it will be afftected by personal taste and room.

 

It is alway fun to attend audio show and lookf for synergy between components.

 

Thomas

@ghasley I will ask them after the holidays.

I don’t know what to tell you other than the magazine can’t rewrite Ohm’s law.

 

HOWEVER, if we drop in their 1,171 watts of output into a 2 ohm load you get….wait for it….a rated current of 23.67. Your magazine rated current at 238 amps…that’s why I guessed that they have a decimal position off.

@ghasley 
I don’t know. Here are the same specs from the same mag for a a few other integrated amps. Accuphase E800: MCC pos: 63A neg: 60A (289 W into 2 ohms vs 1121 for D300). Boulder 866: MCC pos: 50A neg: 47A (717 W into 2 ohms) Luxman L-509X: MCC pos: 104A neg 107A (384 W into 2 ohms)

@swede58 

 

The magazine must have had a typographical error. Ohms law, utilizing Gryphon’s own specs (950w into a 2 ohm load) calculates current at 21.8 amps.

@ghasley They state that the 21A for the Pass Int 250 was surprisingly low and the measurement for the Diablo 300 was one of the best ever.

Sorry, but I don’t know how to post pics here but it says MCC Pos: 238A MCC Neg: 264A. Not sure what that means but a big difference from the Int 250’s MCC Pos: 21A MCC Neg: 31A

@swede58 

 

you can imagine how much wall power and the size of the amplifier, power supplies, etc would be necessary to drive 238 amps of current. If the Diablo did so then they have overcome Ohm’s law. It was like a misprint…23.8 amps is probably more like it….

@swede58  The Diablo 300 is a very bad match for Thiel speakers that's for sure.

Bass was terrible on my Thiel, very lean and not musical and very bright trebel.

I'm sure the Diablo 300 is a very good integrated but not with Thiel speakers!

and delivers much more current than the Diablo 300.

@thieliste I seriously doubt that. The Diablo 300 delivers 238A according to measurements in a Swedish HiFi mag. For comparison: Pass Int 250: 21A, X350.8: 43A and D’Agostino S350: 157A

bass was not impressive at all.

Controlled, articulate, authoritative and taut bass is probably the D300’s strongest suit. The D300 must be an extremely bad match with Thiel speakers?!

This Brama integrated looks like a very nice piece of gear, most likely the only one with 300B linestage.

@maxwave Yes the new Western Electric 300B tubes are said to be the best money can buy ! I see some that got the Vinnie Rossi Brama Integrated amps are now selling them and moving up to the Brama preamp and Brama amps after hearing them. They Must Sound Heavenly Good ! 

@rick2000

Mine had Electro Harmonix 300B as stock tubes

I replaced theme with Wester Electric 300B the day I got my Brama Integrated.

It is a good choice to have Western Electric as stock tubes.

You do not wish to have average tires  when you buy a Bentley

I think , the choice of Electro Harmonix was based on reliability .

 

The Vinnie Rossi Brama has new Western Electric 300B tubes in it and you can put it in Triode mode and a lot more power for the very best of both worlds. I think you can do any better than that at any price with most speakers ! 🤔😃 

https://www.vinnierossi.com/brama-integrated-amplifier/

I do not think that there is such a thing as ´´ The best  ´´ this or that ,.

Yes, you need a minimum though.
As there is no ´´ Best denture ´´

´´ The best ´´ is the one that  fits your  mouth ( pleases  your ears )

There is also a lot of psychoacoustic with this hobby : my system sounds much

better after I clean it .

Maybe the all new $38K Vinnie Rossi BRAMA Integrated amp is the very best Integrated on the planet period 🤔🤔

@fredorama I've owned the Diablo 300 for a year but unfortunately it didn't work out for my speakers, it was way too bright in the trebel and bass was not impressive at all.

I sold it a couple of month ago and purchased a Vitus SIA-025 Mk2 which is class A, it is much more refined and delivers much more current than the Diablo 300.

The Vitus is very smooth and liquid sounding.

I'm sure the Diablo 300 would pair well with Wilson Audio speakers.

@rick2000 The Audionet Humboldt is definitely my favorite integrated, i've demoed it in my system it is spectacular!

You also have the Vitus SIA-030 and the Pilium Leonidas in this categogy

Audionet Humboldt   

Tektron 211 SE Tube

@fredorama Um the OP posted this in 2019. Before your post the last post was in 2020. 

Reading is fundamental. With all due respect, Merry Christmas. 

 

Here's a list of ultimate Integrated amps between 30-50K for people who want a simple rig with no compromise :
Dan D'agostino Momentum IntegratedAudionet HumboldtVitus SIA-30CH Precision I1Aavik U-380Jeff Rowland Daemon
Soulution 530
Feel free to add others that you know of or share your experience if you own one of them.Cheers

thieliste09-18-2019 1:30pm

People of Agon, with all due respect, if you have nothing substantive to add, or you’re not responding to the OP’s original question / request for feedback, PLEASE don’t clutter the thread with unrelated irrelevant gobbledygook. I say this for the benefit of the site, so please don’t take it personally. Thank you to those of you whose responses were relevant and insightful

I have heard the D’Agostino Momentum and Progression. I was not impressed at all with the Progression. The Momentum OTOH, now that is one very sweet agile musical potent performer. Listened to them both driving Wilson Alexia 2. Not the easiest of loads. But also with the Sasha DAW, a slightly easier load. There is a significant price gap between the two, so I was expecting the pricier big brother to sound better - but the difference to my ears was more pronounced than I had expected

i’m currently looking into the Gryphon Diablo 300 without DAC. I’ve nothing to add bc I haven’t HEARD the thing. So I will keep my musings and spec sheet quotes and anecdotal comments to myself :))

Not exactly in the budget but that new Vac integrated looks pretty wicked, I would really like to hear that vertical animal! And it’s only $150.000.00. Bet you won’t see many of those on Audiogon any time soon.

Scot

I think the best integrated (and probably the best amp) I have heard is the Engstrom Arne.

FWIW the Agostino integrated that I’m mentioning is in the Progession series, not the Momentum. 

I have auditioned most integrated mentioned here and the new king of integrated IMO is the Audionet Humboldt sharing first place with d'Agostino Momentum.Obviously just my opinion.

T+A PA 3100 HV. Look no further. If you have the cash of course

Just to consider before pulling the trigger. Agostino is starting to ship this week a new progression integrated amp based on his latest thinking. The final version is naturally great looking and within their lineup it may be a ‘value’ if you can call $18000 a value. They’ve presold appx 200 units. Check out the info page on their website understanding that the photos were a prototype. Gone is the copper except for a sliver on the volume control. 

I will probably get the Audionet Humboldt.

I have an E-800 on order.   It should arrive in 3 weeks or so.  List is $21,500 and there is already speculation that the price will increase to over $25,000 very soon as the E-800 is rivaling the Accuphase separates in terms of performance.    At present, the entire year's allocation to US retailers as almost been spoken for.

Agree on a pass int-250 - great integrated, especially considering its price. The new Accuphase E-800 has been just released. I don't think anybody in US had a chance to hear it. But the specs are quite impressive for class A integrated. I am very curious.
But Its unfortunate that Accuphase gear in US costs more than twice the price in Japan. The E-800 msrp in US is $21k, in Japan its about $9800.

Pass Labs. Their stuff is extremely hard to beat. SQ and craftsmanship as good as it gets. Customer service at it’s very best. Nothing not to like. One of my ear’s very favorite flavors of amp. Their entire line is consistently, superbly, built.

Sansui AU-111, is magic..

But consider the savings of $27K on interconnects.

The craziest and most insane solid state integrated ever built is most likely the Vitus MP-I201 at 126 kg and a €100k price tag.I wonder who would spend 100k on an integrated.

Yup.  Any integrated over 80 lbs hits the sweat spot.

Just because you are not going to pair a $15k integrated with $100K speakers.I don't see a Lavardin integrated driving a pair of Wilson Alexx, just makes sense.Regarding T+A, it might me a very good amp but this brand just like Aavik doesn't hold it's value IMO as opposed to Dartzeel, Vitus, CH Precision, d'Agostino, Gryphon, Luxman, Accuphase, Nagra and others to name a fiew.I would be careful when investing such a chunk of money in an amp of whatever gear that is.That doesn't mean T+A and Aavik are not good, they just lack image IMO.

Why are people so fascinated with ultra high end amps ? Most of the time they look pretentious and right out ugly, often of course speaker dependent, a LFD amp or Lavardin would sound just as well, if not better, amps with lots of watts and mammoth power supply is not always giving the best sound, often a nimble Alfa Romeo is better that a Lamborghini!!! Maybe if we were better choosing speaker with easier load, then the smaller amps would arguably be better sounding than an overbuilt mammoth!This was written with tongue in cheek ;-) in part...

At about $23K, the T+A PA 3100 HV may be part of your list, albeit cheaper than $30K

IMO the Vitus 030 is the sweat spot if you want an ultra high end integrated with no compromise that can equal 50k worth of pre-power.Regarding the d'Agostino you pay a lot for the case work unfortunately.I would not put my money on the Aavik but that's my own opinion.

Thanks for your observations! 
Sounds like the Vitus is quite special....what more are you looking for? I have heard your speakers driven by Aavik pre and power amps- fantastic. I suspect that the Aavik integrated may not be up to the task...have you tried it?

The D'Agostino is really the ideal integrated if you want the best of both worlds tube and solid state sound in one single package.The sound is extremely engaging, organic, smooth, fast, detailed and very solid bass, it's never analitycal.The Vitus is pretty close but not as warm sounding.It is very transparent, fast, big slam and liquid sounding like CH Precision.The CH doesn't have the slam of the Vitus.I also know the Diablo 300 quite well and IMO the Vitus is in another league.

What differences did you perceive between the D'Agostino and the Vitus 030? The Vitus looks like a monster!
Thanks for your opinion..
ATB,
Mark

In the Lower price range the Gryphon Diablo 300 is the best bang for the buck and it can drive just about everything.

Low power tubes will never be able to max out Borresen speakers unfortunately.The Borresen team uses their Aavik U-380 to power them.

Well if low power tubes is your thing I highly recommend Triode labs- Finale Audio out of Toronto, I have one of their F 3008 FX integrated amps and its spectacular. 8wpc though ($9k as outfitted). 

Also  Luxman fan. Pass labs Fan.  

If you ignore the price tag, based on performance, I think the Pass Labs int 250 should be included.