Pleasant surprise ... I like it as much as " Rich men of Richmond"
Thanks...
«Today’s Lyrics Are Pathetically Bad» Rick Beato
He know better than me. He is a musician and i am not. I dont listen contemporary lyrics anyway, they are not all bad for sure, but what is good enough is few waves in an ocean of bad to worst...
I will never dare to claim it because i am old, not a musician anyway, i listen classical old music and world music and Jazz...
And old very old lyrics from Franco-Flemish school to Léo Ferré and to the genius Bob Dylan Dylan...
Just write what you think about Beato informed opinion...
I like him because he spoke bluntly and is enthusiast musician ...
281 responses Add your response
How about a protest song for the 2020s, folks https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sER0FzJO-c0&pp=ygUNQ2hhdCBQaWxlIHdoeQ%3D%3D If Bob Dylan were 25 he might sound like this
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Now listen to Beato opinions in 15 minutes about top songs of 2024 :
As i said i like Beato because he is like an open book persona: TOP 10 SONGS OF 2024??https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKYswE7wj1c
He is way more patient than me with songs lyrics and music... i want pure beauty and moving heart and total originality not just merely good professional work to listen casually ... I listen Bach casually not well done professional song ... The song i put above of Gaelynn Lea is better on all counts than all these 24 list ( save Teddy Swims, and Billie Eilish with my honorable mention )...None of them moves me 1 inches , Gaelynn Lea peirced the heart... I am not a good public...They all sound to me as manufactured product... Not Gaelynn Lea... Or Cosmo Sheldrake...Or "Rich men from Richmond" ..These three as for me true artists not performers in the quest for a hit...
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Certainly a great actual artist and great lyrics... Someday We’ll Linger in the Sun 🌅 Performed by Gaelynn Lea
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_HaSKgPjk6g Or this version of the same magnificent song by a true artist ( not a manufactured one) : |
I concur with ezwind...
I will only add that the media and the corporations work to manufacture not only the singers and products, but they manufacture a specialized niche public too, as pointed above in my article about South-Korean pop great success and exportation methods... Then:
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@ezwind +1 Great post! |
This certainly raises the question of whether there are fewer and fewer great songwriters because there just isn't a big enough audience for great songs, and if there's no audience you can't make a living writing them. Based on my experience with young people who bother to listen to music at all, young boys and men these days generally listen to rap/hiphop stuff and they're primarily interested in whether the songs have a good beat or a thumping bass. Teenage girls and young women tend to gravitate more towards vacuous pop relationship songs. Admittedly these are generalizations, but I don't think the generalization is unfair. Many in this thread have noted how there are a lot of great songs being written by Americana artists. How many young people today are listening to that stuff, much less blues or jazz? I'd guess the percentage is miniscule. I know that when I go to see those artists in concert anyone under 30 or even 40 usually sticks out like a sore thumb. So I agree that the listening audience today is probably getting what they ask for and what they deserve. |
Did you mean to say they’re not widely known or publicized? Because as far as access, you can get any music online in 5 seconds. Which brings us to this question: Are an unknown artist’s chances to be discovered on Tik Tok better or worse than they were on radio and TV stations back in "the day"? And: Do conglomerates churn out torrents of garbage purely out of the evilness of their cold hearts, or are they merely rational economic actors who produce what the buying public demands?
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Yes, yes and only if you don’t bother to look. Beato could provide a great service, IF he were to educate his viewers/subscribers and point them towards the good stuff.
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For my birthday in October, my wife gifted me Post Malone's F-1 Trillion album. After listening for a day, I immediately traded/sold it. All the hooks were eerily similar to other country songs of old and felt that I had heard that song before when Pro-Tools/Autotune was not a thing. I guess the days of suing others for song writing is a thing of the past, but putting lipstick on a pig is a viable option in the music industry today. Ala movies, the industry has little to work with except sequels. I think Beato is right, but it really does stick out in the country music genre nowadays. I find a few newer rock songs to be really refreshing, however. "Cage the Elephant" song "Neon Pill" sticks out. This song would have been a major hit in the 1980's and, somehow, contains new catchy hooks that I cannot associate with that era- or this era- for that matter. Rock still has some room for improvement, IMHO. Country has far less to work with and pop is truly produced by a conglomerate of record executives and producers who are propped up by the industries that have invested in them. "Cage the Elephant" has been supported by that music conglomerate for 17+ years, including Grammy nominations (see conglomerate). I find the majority (I really only like one song out of their ten albums) of their tracks impossible to enjoy. Oliver of "Rich men..." fame had over 17 million streams in one week and he garnered more than 2 million for his one song, subsequently turning down record label offers of up to 8 million. Cage the Elephant, on the other hand, has sold about 3 million albums to collect far less, considering the music industry took a large part of that pie. Hollywood is taking a beating nowadays and may be on life support. I believe that the music industry may be in the same boat...a sinking one! |
You are exactly right in my opinion... i also liked the song you mentioned for his sincere engagement and clever words... A song can have meaningful words without the poetry of a Nobel prize winner and touch us...It was the case with "Rich man" ... It was not a "manufactured product for a "manufactured" Zombies public... Thanks...
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Beato also opines that there is no actual artistic engagement in mainstream pop/rock/country. It's formulaic and worse closed to "outsiders". In that light i think he's right. Take "Rich Men North Of Richmond" for example. 100% off the reservation, no producer, no label, no major national "drop" and it slipped through- and was wildly successful. Arguably the lyrics are simple yet clever, and the performance is authentic. It was refreshing. I blame the conglomerate music industry for the crap being produced and aired today. For sure there are excellent musicians and brilliant lyrics being made today- but they are not easily accessible. |
@bdp24 Spiritual yes, thumper no. Unlikely you would ever hear T Bone Burnett describe himself as “contemporary….” |
I appreciate your thoughtful reflections. FYI, I was pointing out a potential "blind spot" regarding how we assess lyrics, not asserting you or anyone else necessarily falls prey to it. I can’t know that, obviously! I do notice it in myself. You bring up many interesting and complex points that could be delved into at great depth. Songs can and do operate at many different levels. Each of us may have our preferences regarding which levels we find most engaging. You bring up imagery. Images can indeed be very powerful; without referring to specific details they can nevertheless invoke/evoke complex responses/reactions. The image "carries us" deep into ourselves and we "fill in the picture" based upon our own experiences and imagination. Its non-specificity is what leaves room for us to interact with it. On the other hand, there is writing that satisfies/engages through its specificity. It paints a vivid picture and we take it in as if we are a blank canvas that "soaks up" all the finely delineated detail. Dylan has written tunes across a very broad stylistic spectrum, from "journalistic" to cryptic and many points between. I find it very difficult to generalize about his work.
Doh! Sorry about that. This can happen with long threads, involving many participants!
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@ghastley: I take it then that you haven’t heard T Bone’s latest album The Other Side. If you go way back to his first solo album from 1972 (entitled J. Henry Burnett, The B-52 Band & The Fabulous Skylarks) you will find a song written by T Bone entitled "I Don’t Mind No Light Sermon". In between those two albums, his others include lyrics with spiritual references, just as do Dylan’s. And just as do his albums as a member of the trio known as The Alpha Band, with David Mansfield and Steven Soles. But remember, I said T Bone "came out of the Contemporary Christian community." That doesn’t necessarily mean he recorded and released any album in that format/genre. T Bone was a member of a famous church in Southern California (I don’t recall it’s name), where Dylan also went to study the Bible. T Bone’s ex-wife Sam Phillips also started as a Contemporary Christian artist, then going by the name Leslie Phillips. I have her four CC solo albums (all on Myrrth Records, the last---The Turning---produced by T Bone) on CD. T Bone and Sam met as a result of their Christian activities, as did Buddy and Julie Miller. Julie also had some solo albums put out as a CC artist, which I also have on CD.
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Going back a few years ago, I remember hearing He's Fine on the radio a few times so I bought the CD for that song. I cannot say that, for me personally, anything except that song really grabbed me. I'll have to give it another listen. |
@ezwind: The two times I saw Iris at The Troubadour, the room was so quiet you could hear a pin drop between songs. It was kind of uncomfortable. Iris didn’t speak much, and at one of the shows I think there were a few groups from churches in the audience, with their kids. At the two shows here in Portland, Iris was having a lot more fun, and was actually quite funny. Lots of self-deprecating humor. God I love her so.
@slaw: I just picked up a coupla Secret Sisters albums at Music Millennium. All it takes for me is to see that T Bone Burnette produced. He or Buddy Miller. Has anyone else heard the Healing Tide album by the Gospel duo The War & Treaty (Michael and Tanya Trotter) that Buddy produced? Fantastic! Buddy (and his wife Julie) come from the Contemporary Christian music community. Coincidentally, so does T Bone.
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Not necessary to apologize i do not understand your point anyway... :) The use of chat gtp and A.I. is my main focus point about society right now... I just begun to uncover the new "religion" aspect from it from mathematics to society... I am flabbergasted to say the least ..
I wish you the best of year and the health necessary to enjoy life ... |
@stuartk , I would agree with probably everything you typed in that post. However, I would point out that you should have addressed that post/reply to @ezwind instead of me. Not that I took offense or anything, just that the post that you were responding to was made by @ezwind . As for me, in the mid ’90s I was introduced to a public radio station, 91.3 WYEP, that totally transformed my appreciation of music. And although I do not listen to the radio much anymore, what I have heard when I do listen makes me tfeel that there are still good artists writing lyrics in the 21st century.
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@mapman , +1 on The Bird's The Word. I had that very same thought when I was recently watching a rerun of Full Metal Jacket on Flix. An example of yester-year's lyrics that were not extremely good. |
South Korea POP is becoming a model globally ... They manufacture the artist as well as the public by controlling all steps of the product... The lyrics are no more created by an independant FREE poet or artist as Cohen, Dylan, Lennon, Mitchell etc were but the young talent is taken under a controlling corporate wings ... Is their lyrics will be bad? No not necessarily bad... Is their lyrics will be good ? No for the most of them... A manufactured set of lyrics tailor made for an artist and a tailor made public all controlled by the corporation made the artist work and sell... But forget poetry and inspired music... Thats was Beato point as i understood it and my point ... It is not and was never about taste or old age nostalgia... The change in the music industry goes hand in hand with a change deeper in the social fabric threefold organisation( culture/education-political participation-economoic association ) this change consist in the reduction and flattening of the threefold layers of the social fabric by corporate powers and A.I. to a single totally controlled unique layer... Over our head and under our feet as individuals we are taken in charge... ( the events of the last years are revelatory about that ) There is no free poet in a hive...the lyrics of the hive are neither good or bad they are standardized and tailor made... No nostalgia for me about Dylan or the Beatles , no hate of any young actual artist... I even mention one i just discovered above... Simply most lyrics on the chart sucks in a way or in another... This does not means that there is no more genius in music ...
Korean Music Companies Are Exporting More Than K-Pop: How They’re Changing the Global Music BusinessThe next step in K-pop’s growth may lie not in music itself, but in exporting K-pop’s disciplined development, production and promotion model.
https://www.billboard.com/pro/korean-music-companies-exporting-k-pop-model-globally/ If you want to read this instructive article: use the adress in the web site : "Browse a cleaner web" |
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In 2024, several songs have been critically appraised for their impactful lyrics. Here are some notable examples: 1. **"Anti Hero" by Taylor Swift**: This song has been highlighted for its introspective lyrics that resonate with themes of vulnerability and self-reflection. The line "It’s me, hi, I’m the problem, it’s me" captures the essence of human introspection, making it a significant addition to contemporary music discussions [[2]](https://vocal.media/education/top-songs-to-add-to-your-playlist-in-2024). 2. **"What Now" by Brittany Howard**: This track explores the complex emotions surrounding a crumbling relationship, including feelings of numbness and guilt. The song's blend of soul, rock, and R&B, along with its raw emotional honesty, has garnered critical acclaim [[3]](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/04/arts/music/best-albums-2024.html). 3. **"Only God Was Above Us" by Vampire Weekend**: This song features lyrics that reflect on the evolution of indie rock in a changing musical landscape. Its mix of historical references and abstract lyrics showcases the band's innovative approach to songwriting [[3]](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/04/arts/music/best-albums-2024.html). 4. **"Hit Me Hard and Soft" by Billie Eilish**: Eilish's latest work is noted for its relatable love songs that intertwine darker themes with affection. The concise nature of the album, along with its melodic complexity, has been well-received by critics [[3]](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/04/arts/music/best-albums-2024.html). 5. **"Brat" by Charli XCX**: This album includes tracks that assess personal and professional struggles, using catchy beats and honest lyrics to convey the artist's journey in the pop industry [[3]](https://www.nytimes.com/2024/12/04/arts/music/best-albums-2024.html). These songs not only showcase lyrical depth but also reflect broader themes of personal growth, emotional complexity, and cultural commentary, making them standout tracks in 2024. --- |
Another good newer artist is Allison Russel. I love her song, Eve Was Black. Another new singer song writer is Sierra Ferrell from where I grew up in West Virginia. Her song American Dreaming is pretty good. |
Sure, I remember those days. But keep in mind that back then, record companies were largely run by people who were willing to take on a much broader variety of artists. They all had their roster of hit makers but that wasn’t their sole focus. These days, it’s a very different story. It’s all about the bottom line. There’s no perceived upside or cachet to releasing recordings by more obscure or idiosyncratic artists, so these artists must go their own way or find small labels willing to take them on. This means what’s on commercial radio is much more homogenized than it was when we were young. If you want to hear "the good stuff", you need to tune into independent radio stations such as KVMR online, read online music magazines,and utilize streaming platforms. The All Music Guide online is useful. as well. How much effort is required to type in a few search terms and and operate a mouse? Not much! One of the major pluses about streaming that gets mentioned over and over here is the access it provides to massive amounts of music. Never before in history has there been such easy access to so much music. Even if you don’t stream (I don’t) Spotify is a terrific resource for exploring new sounds.
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One example of pathetically bad lyrics from a song in the 1950s is "Surfin' Bird" by The Trashmen. The song is notorious for its repetitive and nonsensical lyrics, which primarily consist of variations on the phrase "bird is the word" and other silly vocal sounds. The lyrics include lines like: - "A-well-a everybody's heard about the bird" Critics have pointed out that the song seems to lack creativity, relying heavily on repetitive phrases and nonsensical sounds rather than meaningful lyrics. This has led to the perception that the songwriters were more focused on creating a catchy tune than on crafting substantial lyrics [[2]](https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/50s-and-60s-song-lyrics-did-they-even-try.135243/). Another example often cited for its lack of depth is "The Purple People Eater" by Sheb Wooley, which features whimsical and absurd lyrics about a creature that eats purple people. The overall tone and content of such songs from the era often reflect a playful, yet simplistic approach to songwriting that can come off as "pathetic" by today's standards [[2]](https://forum.rpg.net/index.php?threads/50s-and-60s-song-lyrics-did-they-even-try.135243/). These examples illustrate how some 1950s songs, while catchy, can be viewed as having lyrics that are trivial or lacking in substance. --- |
The last time I saw Iris was in late '23 at the Kate Hepburn Theater in CT (tiny place seats a few hundred or so) and she was accompanied by Liz Draper on bass and Myra Burnette on guitar, two youngish musicians from Minnesota. I've seen Iris maybe a half dozen times and, as always, this was a great show. She's become a lot more chatty on stage than she used to be. |
@tomic601, Thanks man! |
@bdp24 - yeah, Mississippi Studios is great venue and environment; saw Stan Ridgway up there about 20 or so years ago... |
@tomic601: Damn Jim, where'd ya see Iris with accompaniment? A bassist and guitarist? All four times I've seen her she was solo, which was fine with me. I've seen Joan Osborne with just her pianist and guitarist, and with her I missed a rhythm section. Still great though. About a year ago I saw two new young(er) artists and an old-timer touring together, in a great little theater in Portland, Mississippi Studios. They were Kelly Willis, Brennen Leigh, and Melissa Carper. Melissa was playing an upright bass, Kelly and Brennen acoustic guitars. A night of great songs, singing, and playing! The audience was divided about equally between greybeards (such as myself) and young hipsters. Outrageous alcoholic beverage prices! I gotta start sneaking in my flask.
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That probably had the most to do with it, @ezwind . They played top 40 hits and old-goldies and C&W. They probably played Blowing In The Wind back then, unless it had some kind of bad rap of being a protest oriented song--as good as my memory is, I do not remember. My Mom liked different types of music--she was relatively open minded. Relatively. She bought the 45 rpm of Hey Jude because she thought it was beautiful when she heard it on the radio. She did like what she heard by Paul Simon, although she was a bit aghast by Kodachrome ("When I think back on all the crap I learned in high school . . ."). My Dad was different story. I remember playing an 8 track (I think it was a greatest hits) for my mom because I had just discovered Ob-La-Di, Ob-La-Da and I thought it was so cool, and my Dad walked by and was quite condescending. He liked Lawrence Welk and he also liked Kenny Rodgers. In the ’90s, after my mom died, he’d come to visit us for Thanksgivings and one year we all went to DC to see Lucinda Williams at the Oh Nine Thirty Club and that didn’t do anything at all for him. A year or two later we went to a local club to see Jill Sobule and Warren Zevon. Not impressed. I played him some Leonard Cohen on my system which was, even back in the later ’90s , not a bad system, and maybe you can guess how he felt about that. He wasn’t liking the Cowboy Junkies cover of I’m So Lonesome I Could Cry; "I don’t think that’s how Hank Williams meant for that to ever sound." Which is all to say that different people have different thoughts about what is great and what is pathetic. |
Really a lovely thread and ensuring discussion especially in light of the new years and choosing growth n learning, new musical experiences… @tyray so glad you are here… i probably missed mentions of them but i greatly miss Lowell George and Warren Zevon and …..so many who have passed. @slaw nice !
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Oops, sorry about mixing up who I was responding to! As far as not hearing much Dylan in the latter half of the 60s and early 70s, that was likely due to the fact that he got married, had kids and took a hiatus from touring starting in 67 until 74 and only released two or three albums of new music during that period. The fact that you were in a small town in Montana probably had something to do with as well. |
. . . @ezwind , I will just quickly point out that I was not the member who posted that query to you (about how hard have you tried to hear new music), but no-matter. I remember my childhood in the ’60s and my teen age years in the ’70s, and I can tell you that most of the AM country &/or top 40 stations that were popular in the small town in north central Montana where I grew up were not playing Dylan very often. I doubt my Dad (who did like Lawrence Welk) would have even known who he was if my sisters hadn’t have been playing it in the basement. And I don’t know how they were exposed to it, except my oldest sister was a small town hippy-girl, and I suppose that they were privy to some kind of "underground hippy network" whose reach mangaed to extend to the northern plains. As far as being exposed to contemporary artists these days, back in the mid ninetys someone at work turned me onto a public radio station, 91.3 WYEP, that got me away from the classic rock stations. I don’t know what their play list is like now, but at the time it was like, "Wow! I never heard of this group/artist! This is real good!" And I bought a lot of CDs due to that radio station. I kept my car radio on 91.3 and the radio at my bench at work as well. At work, except for two other guys who listened to that station, all everyone else knew was classic rock or what passed for country back then (meaning Garth Brooks, et al). I caught a lot of grief over that.
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@ezwind , the reason I picked those artists, and others, was because at some point in the course of this thread the statement was made about what was or was not being written in the 21st century. All of those artists I have listed released their first studio album in the early 2000s, with the exception of one who released two in the very late ’90s and then followed up with several releases in the 21stt century. |
For sure you are right, it is just plain common sense.. But..... Any Bob Dylan songs for example is well written... Or Léo Ferré or Jacques Brel in french... The well done poetic content speak to anyone at any age... Anybody can feel "ne me quittes pas" powerful words even at 85 years old passed the teen days of girls letting him on the border of the road... It is certain that song content speak to some specific listener at some age. but this has nothing to do with his lyrical litterary value...And the reason why we listen Brel, Ferré, Dylan or Cohen today is for their litterary and musical quality...The listener age dont matter... The only one creating songs specifically for teen for example in the yéyé era were the singers working for a market identified by the industry... These songs had no more any interest save for nostalgia and are lying in the graveyard of bad commercial music..
We dont listen the Beatles best songs mainly by nostalgia for our teen years but because they are well written...
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