Now you've piqued my interest on what would be the top 10 lyrics that defined 2024 'faroutmagazine.co.us'?
«Today’s Lyrics Are Pathetically Bad» Rick Beato
He know better than me. He is a musician and i am not. I dont listen contemporary lyrics anyway, they are not all bad for sure, but what is good enough is few waves in an ocean of bad to worst...
I will never dare to claim it because i am old, not a musician anyway, i listen classical old music and world music and Jazz...
And old very old lyrics from Franco-Flemish school to Léo Ferré and to the genius Bob Dylan Dylan...
Just write what you think about Beato informed opinion...
I like him because he spoke bluntly and is enthusiast musician ...
281 responses Add your response
Bob Dylan's Philosophy of Modern Song
https://afternature.substack.com/p/bob-dylans-philosophy-of-modern-song |
Another young jazz lion...Robert Glasper - So Beautiful (Live At Capitol Studios) (Official Video) |
@bdp24 thanks for the correction on the name |
Speaking of Mike Bloomfield (one of my first guitar heros in my early teens), below is a link to a fascinating story that he wrote himself (with illustrations by R. Crumb!) about his experiences with Big Joe Williams in Chicago. It's a great read. https://sundayblues.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/10/Me-and-Big-Joe-Article.pdf |
@onhwy61: Your Sonny Boy Williamson (no offense intended, but it’s not Williams) quote is missing a few words which are important in making his point. His statement was "The English boys want to play the Blues so bad, and that’s just how they do it." Pretty funny. By the way, as retold in the the Last Waltz film, in 1965 Williamson met and jammed with The Hawks (who of course became The Band in ’68), and he and they discussed going on a U.S.A. tour with them serving as his band. Williamson died later that year, and The Hawks went on the road with Dylan instead. Hawks drummer Levon Helm had already met Sonny Boy, while still in high school. Helm and Sonny Boy both lived in Helena Arkansas, and Sonny would regularly appear on the local music station’s lunchtime radio show. Helm says he would buy himself a coupla donuts and a Coca Cola, eating his lunch on the floor in a corner of the radio station while watching and listening to Williamson and his band.
I loved The Yardbirds (they quickly became my favorite of the mid-60’s British bands with the release of their debut album), from whom I first heard songs like "I’m A Man" and "Train Kept A-Rollin" ( a cover of the scorching hot 1956 Rockabilly version by The Johnny Burnette Trio. Jeff Beck was a huge fan of the Burnette Band’s guitarist Paul Burlinson). The 1951 original was a Blues by Tiny Bradshaw. As I said in one Audiogon thread (maybe this one), in the South (like Elvis, Burnette lived in Memphis) musicians integrate their music.
@onhwy61: You were mocking Blues Hammer, right? That’s certainly what the Ghost World movie is doing. Speaking of which, for those wanting to hear Blues music butchered, check out Canned Heat’s performance at Woodstock. About as bad as I’ve heard the music performed. Even worse than Blues Traveler.
My peers and I had our musical lives seriously impacted with the hearing of the debut by The Paul Butterfield Blues Band. Playing drums and bass in the band at that time were veterans of Howlin’ Wolf’s band. Now THAT’S a Blues band! Mike Bloomfield on lead guitar, of course. That’s where Dylan heard his playing, and hired him for recordings.
In 1969 The Charles Ford Blues band (whose members included guitarist Robben Ford and his two brothers on drums and harmonica. The band’s name was a tribute to their father) relocated from Ukiah California to my hometown of San Jose. As you can imagine, that sent shock waves through the local music community. Every guitarist I new went to as many of their shows at possible, to see the Blues played by the then 18 year old Robben Ford, already a superb guitarist. The bassist in my senior year high school band played bass with them for a while, until Robben left for Los Angeles. Near the corner of Sunnyvale-Saratoga Road and Stevens Creek Blvd---the heart of the San Jose suburb Cupertino, there was a rental house where a bunch of local musicians lived. It was referred to as The Blues House.
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I cannot describe what is at the core of jazz which is such that all musicians in the world in many different culture had begun to adopt it and used it to improve even their own innate musical language or their traditional instruments...
Observe that this is a fact not my opinion or my invention. there is jazz influences in Russia, as in japan or South America or in mid-eastern countries. Everywhere almost... There is jazz using oud for example in a mix which is some mideastern music instrument used in a jazz way...
But i can gave my explanation...
In jazz i felt a specific musical flowing time and timing sense a freedom which is related to the way musicians feel what a good improvisation is and must be and if it is successful one...
In other musical culture the importance of the specific instruments timbre and chords traditionally used act as a restraint because the final goal is more linked to specific traditional chosen instruments playing than to the improvisation with many non specifically chosen instruments as such as in jazz ( hammond or tuba or etc)...
The rules in traditional musics are more constraining than in jazz concerning the chosen instruments in use and concerning the rules over the improvisation session itself.
For example in India the veena is revered as a gift from Saraswati, his improvisations are heavily codified and the way to play the sound go with rigid rules.Same for the tabla. As it is for the Yoruba talking drums...
The way to play instruments are not so heavily codified in jazz... It is why jazz expressions styles had changed so much from so many different names,( bop , hard bop etc of style in 70 years golden age.
Jazz spirit is more free more easy to adopt even in the confine of other music traditions.
It is why i claimed that Jazz improvisation is universally influential in a way no other world music ever be save european classical written music tradition. this is less my claims than well known observable facts.
Also these two western music styles goes together, jazz and classical, with the same chords language and with some common background. ( negro spirituals, folk music & hymns of the pilgrims for example ) and had more influence all around earth together than any other musical traditional cultures on earth.
( japan music, Indian music and African music, Chinese music , Turkisch music has not that much in common as jazz and classical has)
I am not a musician and yes i need frogman here to correct me or to validate in a more professionnal way what i try to convey ...
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You seem to be saying there exists a sort of Jazz "blueprint" that has been absorbed/integrated into many other genres, worldwide. You also seem to acknowledge that these other genres have, in turn, influenced Jazz. What, so far as I can tell -- and I admit I’m not doing a very good job of understanding your meaning-- you haven’t spelled out in musical terms, is what it is at the core of Jazz that comprises its universal aspect. Particular rhythms? Particular scales? Use of altered dominant 7th chords? "Vertical improvisation" in which a soloist "outlines" each chord change, as opposed to "horizontal" improvisation that tends to focus on developing longer themes or in the case of modal compositions, can employ a single scale over an entire progression? Something else? Perhaps this is what you are hoping our resident Jazz expert @frogman will define? Sorry if I’m being especially dense, here. Just trying to gain a clearer picture. ;o)
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For sure all music styles all over the world wrote their own syntax rules integrating if not potentially all instruments as for jazz a few even many (India-Persia). It is well known to anybody who like world music as i am ... But there is only one style which goes all around earth as an influences doing it at this scale and for such different cultures... No other genres did it as jazz did...I like Fado for example but it stayed in Portuguese world mainly and his syntax let no trace in Japan as Jazz did..
For sure all world music is based on improvisation... I like chinese music and japan traditional music, none of it let his syntax rules and chord scales imprint all around the world... Black traditional jazz begun to do it, it extended to all America, it reach Europe then it encompassed the world.. Is it pure jazz as in the golden age of jazz ? No.. Is it jazz at 100% like in the golden age now in all countries by those musicians calling themselves jazzmen? No.. But it does not invalidate my point that jazz became if not the only at least the main universal matrix of influence for all improvised music around the world so much that the classical folk music of many countries begun to kept jazz as an inspiration for his own growing transforming essence ... As Hollywood film making influenced all the world cinema... Is it a good thing ? For the Hollywood influence on other countries cinema i dont think it was only a good influence, it is a mix... For jazz it is almost all good influence... There is something new and universal in improvised jazz language at his core... As there is something universal exportable from this WRITTEN classical syntax european music ...So deep and original sophisticated are Indian and Persian music they were not exportable as Jazz or classical were... Yoruba talking drums language inspired the greatest acoustician i read but it is not universally exportable as a useful integrating syntax even if music is a universal understood language, not as exportable and integrating form as jazz improvisation rules and classical written language were...Because in all cultures the perceived meanings depend more of a specific instrument depth core timbre/tone meanings as physical instrument . Being Yoruba drums or tabla or all Veena variations or all various lutes family or flutes variation in Turkisch sufi music etc..
Frogman here being a musician can certainly better than me speak about it...
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@bdp24 Blues Hammer is Blues Hammer and you just have to accept it as such. I guess you can say they're sincere. There's a story about Sonny Boy Williams when he used the Yardbirds as his backing band while touring England. I don't have the exact quote, but he said something along the lines of "these boys want badly to play the blues -- and they do". Despite what Sonny Boy said I love the Yardbirds doing "I'm A Man". It may not really be blues, but it is inspired. How can you not like Jeff Beck and his Fender Esquire? |
I'm confused. There are plenty of other genres that incorporate improvisation. I don't know what you mean by "improvising syntax set of rules integrating all instruments". Are you referring to simultaneous improvisation and drawing a line between it and the more common approach wherein individual players play solos in turn?
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As a previously frequent poster on the Jazz For Aficionados thread would often point out, (paraphrase, “just because there is improvisation doesn’t mean it is Jazz”. Jazz and Classical music sales, as a percentage of total music sales of all genres, have seldom broken the 2% mark for quite a few decades. This does not mean that there haven’t been up-ticks in sales and general interest as is the case currently, but still in the 1.5-2% range. Data also shows that when asked, about 10-20% of respondents say that they listen to “Jazz”. Why the asterisk? Much of the music that many listeners listen to is not Jazz in the traditional sense. It is R&B, Rock, Funk, whatever, WITH ELEMENTS OF JAZZ. Particularly in the improvisation (when it is there) which is often heavily informed harmonically by Jazz. @tyray , I very much appreciate your enthusiasm and optimism for Jazz and its future. I share your optimism inasmuch as I believe that there will always be a small minority (2% +/-) that will buy Jazz. However and sadly, I doubt this number will ever be substantially higher than this and certainly not as it was decades ago when Jazz was the Pop music of the day. I do think that there is somewhat more interest in Jazz among young (25-45) listeners today. SOMEWHAT more, but still a very small percentage of the total number of young listeners. Your own posts prove my point, I think. What you posted as examples of “Jazz” that young people listen to and even play, I wouldn’t call Jazz at all, but more as I described above… Funk/R&B with elements of Jazz. Here is the lineup for the 2016 NOLA Jazz Fest, aerial view of which you posted as further proof. Might explain the huge crowd, but Jazz?! I did see Wayne Shorter and Preservation Hall Jazz Band among the others listed, but still….. https://www.al.com/entertainment/2016/01/jazz_fest_2016_stevie_wonder_p.html |
@onhwy61: Ghost World, a favorite movie of mine! Another great scene is the one in which the young girl asks Steve Buscemi’s character if the R. Crumb album is good. "Naw, that one’s not so great." Director Terry Zwigoff and Crumb are of course close friends (Zwigoff made the Crumb documentary). This may be a minority opinion, but as I watched Blues Hammer performing, Ten Years After came to mind.
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Now i will link together what i said about jazz universality and classical music universality and the discovery of Dr. Essien.
All music is universal, in any genre from any countries by definition of this second article experiment above and by Dr. Essien great discovery...
Then why i spoke only about jazz universality and classical music universality ? Is it not contradictory ? No Jazz is the only language becoming universal by virtue of his improvising syntax set of rules integrating all instruments and music styles slowly but surely ... Classical European music is becoming universal by virtue of his WRITING syntax rule integrating all others world music language ...
All music of the world is universal in the sense of owning the potentials to be understood by all humans... Because music is a recognizing timbre/rytmic /tonal event based on mechanical invariant (Essien) affecting the human body in a similar way universally .. It is not Pythagorean mathematics harmonies abstraction and computations that makes music universal , it is the ability by the human heart-brain-body to be affected by it in the same way all around earth ... The sound sources vibrating communicate qualities and information about what vibrate and his state...This is the mechanical invariant of Dr. Essien... When a man speak to another man there is information communicating to one another about their psychological and physical states... i will stop here ... Read the book... |
This second important experimental study done independently of Dr. Essien prove Dr. Essien right about hearing acoustics fundamental theory : Bodily maps of musical sensations across culturesI apologize to go astray from my original thread post matter but what i suggest reading is very important news,.... https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2308859121
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There is african culture in africa and in south America for sure.. This dont contradict my point at all ...
Yoruba talking drums is not as jazz and classical a musical language that can be universal as jazz and classical are on all earth... This is not detrimental to yoruba talking drum music nor to raga music... When i talk about Jazz becoming universal i talk about the way IMPROVISATION language became universal in a jazz like manner... As Classical music became universal integrating all others musical language in his WRITING syntax...
By the way if you like yoruba talking drum as me i recommend to you the best book ever on theoretical acoustics by a nigerian genius which had hard time with the English academia and published his doctorate thesis at the Sorbonne... I bought it and thanks to him i understood theoretic acoustics because no other book explain it as he did and it was confirmed this year by 2 important independant studies Dr, essien is a youruba talking drums master and the yoruba drums is at the core of his acoustics understanding : One of the most important book i ever read but he is unknown because people take time to go out of a past 2000 years Pythagorean paradigm : https://www.amazon.ca/Sound-Sources-Origin-Auditory-Sensations/dp/1913289540
Listen to this 8 minutes video about Dr. Essien a true genius who come from Africa which is his original sin ( racism exist ) . Reading his 500 pages book i knew right away he was a genius because no one was able to explain acoustics of hearing to me till i study him... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-6vW8kVCO4&t=1s
Here are one of the 2 articles related to deep discoveries in musical perception acoustics confirming Dr. Essien right : https://phys.org/news/2024-02-pythagoras-wrong-universal-musical-harmonies.html Academia did not seem to has recognized Dr. Essien discoveries way before these 2 independent experiments demonstrating that his thesis is right... Racism exist. And Conclusion : 2,000 years of an error made by Pythagoras lead acoustics theory astray... The correction of this Greek teaching came from Nigeria. Not london, Paris or New-York... Acoustics hearing ground theory understanding is very important for philosophy and science. fundamental.
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Classical music is no more a white european phenomena. In japan and in China there is classical composers and musicians... Classical music is an earth global phenomena... Dont miss-read my intention in the above post... Music has roots but sometimes the trees send his seeds into another forest... It is the same process with Jazz... is it clear?
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I beg to differ. I’ve actually seen a Yoruba ceremony in Salvador Da Bahia, Brazil chanted/sung in Yoruba. Not only has Yoruba made its way to Brasil but even as far away as the US. In Brazil the Yoruba religion is called Candomblé, in their native Portuguese. And even in the US the practice of Voodoo or ’Vodou/Voudoun’ was practiced by Haitian immigrants in New Orleans, LA. Not to be confused with the silly ’TV’ Voodoo stuff. The music played in Brazilian Yoruba ceremonies is the basis for what we know of today as ’Samba’. IMHO of course.
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If you're into the blues you gotta' love Blues Hammer... |
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Besides the fact that holding forth on which culture belongs to whom is kind of a hazardous pastime nowadays, it is also misleading. Take the blues. It was Black folks who graced the world with it; that’s not really open for debate. Neither is the fact that, way back in the hallowed (in this thread at least) 60s and 70s, numerous bands made up of white, skinny, vocational-school dropout British kids with bad teeth appropriated it and "adapted" it into something deemed acceptable by white suburban teenagers and their parents, and became filthy rich doing it. Is it to say that, just because it was dragged away from its roots, the blues is no longer black music like it was back in the 50s? Has its being appropriated, plundered and exploited by white folks and white record companies somehow whitewashed it into a global musical genre? Sorry I don’t follow
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You read me wrong... I never say that there is not many young in jazz... I said that compared to 1960 the % is lower for many reason : many different niche genres born from pop and folk ... Access easy to this new genres through a phone... I also said that the future of jazz is there and growing... You miss this... Because with the internet in all countries jazz music is trending way more than in 1970 now... Jazz is no more only black as in 1930, no more American as in 1960 it is universal music phenomenon as classical...it is born in black america but reach all earth in a way no other genre music did save classical... One of my favorite music genre is Yoruba talking drums and Indian tabla, i love rythms but it will never go around the earth as jazz did ... Jazz is now eternal... It will not fade into oblivion... But young generation need education to it as with classical for the same reasons: sophisticated music evolution need to be learned... |
It would seem implausible. Nobody has done a recent study on the subject, and I doubt it is a pressing matter for anyone at this point, so I would say that you just may be right! @ezwind
I have read that a number of great jazz clubs closed due to the pandemic. A couple were in NYC. Most jazz musicians, I assume, make their money performing live. Hence, I agree that if you do not support jazz by going to shows, the genre will continue to diminish. @devinplombier Sadly, I read the news. And while Canada has provided us with Joni Mitchell, Neil Young, Cowboy Junkies, and the Guess Who..that is just not enough to entice me to buy a gun and form a militia of like-minded folks who want to make Canada pay for their aging fleet of musical geniuses. And as no one has yet to point out, if Canada becomes a state, we will have one heck of a wall to build! |
@stuartk , Yeah, and other reasons the ATL area colleges and promoters support (jazz) musicians a lot. Kinda similar to when back in our day when a lot of music groups went to (toured) college campuses cause the had the already built facilities to hold such venues for students with a somewhat disposable income, and reasons to party! And the Culture of Jazz too, of course! |
It sound like to me you’re just guessing? And you have no clue? I wondering where you live and what live venues you go to see Jazz? Jazz (and blues) is the one music that is our own. It is played all over the US and the world. I don’t care what city you are in, whether it be suburbia or metropolitan areas, there are Jazz clubs all over the US. Well, yes I was guessing about the extent to which young people listen to jazz and blues, but it was an educated guess based on what I've seen at concerts I've attended. And just to clarify, I never said that there aren't plenty of jazz clubs and concerts, just that by and large young people aren't going to them. As far as where I live, I'm in the Hartford/New Haven area in CT, and being close to both NY and Boston jazz is fairly accessible. But not nearly to the degree that it used to be 10 or 20 years ago. There are only a handful of smallish jazz clubs left and jazz concerts aren't nearly as frequent as they used to be. The U. of Hartford has an excellent jazz music program that used to be headed by the late great Jackie McLean. They used to have at least one or two concerts there every month featuring recognizable artists, but those have been few and far between since Jackie passed on in 2006....none that I can remember in the last two or three years. When I do have the opportunity to see a jazz artist locally these days, I'd estimate that at least 90% of the audiences are over 50. Let's face it, jazz has had it's ups and downs in terms of popularity, and right now I'd have to say it's on a downward arc. That's not to say that jazz music itself isn't in a good place - there are many really good, young jazz artists out there these days. We just need more people to go and see them. I think you mentioned the N.O. Jazz Festival as evidence that people still go to see jazz in large numbers. But I've been there a couple of times and of the huge number of acts that play there, probably no more than half of them are jazz. The rest are a mixture of rock, blues, gospel, world music etc. Which is great, but proof of jazz popularity. And I'd add that a sizeable number of people who attend Jazz Fest are there more for the party than the music. Nothing wrong with that either! |
I have no idea where you get your facts from. Some guy from a paper he wrote in the UK? Here’s factual, digitally video recorded, dated and empirical evidence even Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles could see. Drone pilot Phin Percy shot this awesome aerial video of the big New Orleans Jazz Fest crowd last weekend. 04/27/2016 Please watch the entire video. Aerial view of the 2022 45th Annual Jazz Fest | Atlanta GA. |
I dont think that young people right now are into jazz... The tendence is to a falling number of young jazz listeners... With all the niche listening phenomenon , the increasing of the new medias Jazz cannot be an increasing favored genre ... It is evident...Jazz is now an old musical genre competing with new one... This statistics only illustrated a tendency which cannot be decreasing anyway after the generalization of the internet use and portable phone from which many niche genre music appeared. There is no reason for this statistics to had changed because an increase of jazz which is a more intellectual music genre is less probable and ask for an education to it...
Another phenomena is masked here by this statistics concerning jazz falling numbers of young listeners, is the influence of jazz and easy diffusion now because of the internet all around the globe in all culture... jazz listeners has increased in the same time as young listeners of jazz in America had deceased... Jazz has his roots in black America but it is no more an American event it is globalised and there is many jazz musicians of first order in all countries now...With internet since 25 years Jazz has be listened to freely everywhere..
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@goodlistening64 +1! Hah! You don’t say!
As a side note, I live in Metropolitan Atlanta, Georgia where there is a plethora of Jazz in the city’s metro areas. And the number one and biggest festival in Atlanta, GA by far is The (free) Jazz Festival held at Piedmont Park every year, and it goes on for days...So I probably have some positive biases in this subject of Jazz. Or is it Jass?
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As a side note, in the youtube link I posted above, Lalah Hathaway is singing three, yes I wrote, three notes at one time. Notice at almost the end of the video the drummer looks like he’s about to fall off his drum stool. She gets her singing chops naturally from her father, the Great Donny Hathaway. Lalah Hathaway Stuns Robert Glasper By Singing Three Notes At Once Even if this in not your cuppa tea, you should check this out. Simply Fantastic y’all. |
I like the idea of providing proof (works cited) to back up an opinion with facts as you have done. It's what you learn in college when you take breaks from binge drinking. To be fair, however, much of the information you shared is some 14-17 years old. Meaning that 14-17 year old music fans are completely left out of your hypothesis.
@devinplombier
Let's do this, Dev. So I asked A.I., "Is Jazz growing in popularity?" the answer is YES!!:
Then I asked A.I., "Is Jazz music losing popularity?" The answer is YES!!:
See, each opinion here (probably because everyone here is held in high regard and pretty much intellectually infallible!) inescapably holds a tinge of truth. It is why we hang here together; to enjoy all aspects of opinionated pieces, including the inaccurate ones. We all can agree that there is generally too much information to be gleaned on this argument that is decisive, so I say, let's agree to take Greenland by force! We just need a defining reason...drumroll please...the reason is MUSIC!! So I asked A.I., What is the most popular music in Greenland?
PERSONALLY, I inexplicably move my hips when I hear Polka. And who here doesn't like catchy melodies about love, nature and culture?? The reason may be because we don't own it? If we owned love, nature and culture, we just might be able to reason with Panama! And the Panamanians can really put on a show! |
I probably include more so called ’jazz artists’ such Roy Ayers. It’s So Sweet - Roy Ayres Ubiquity and Mystic Voyage - Roy Ayers Ubiquity. Instead of just straight ahead or classic jazz folks. And even after those incluessions, the fact is many, many jazz artist have passed away, so I have to give sway to your arguments. I also include acts such as Lalah Hathaway and Snarky Puppy as jazz acts when others would not. Your points are valid and always most welcomed here. So check this out. This tune is entitled Something, which has a very mild swing to it and her vocals are stunning. Snarky Puppy feat. Lalah Hathaway - Something (Family Dinner - Volume One) Here another ’stunner’ tune for you, it’s Snarky Puppy feat Chantae Cann - Free Your Dreams (Family Dinner - Volume One) Y’all, please enjoy.
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«This paper discusses the changes in the demographics of young people attending jazz events. Since
It is a UK study but it will be probably around the same % figure in the US.
«Stuart Nicholson argues for subsidy as a bulwark against the homogenisation of the market place for jazz: We are, then, at a key moment in jazz history. The music is being reshaped and reimagined beyond the borders of the United States through the process of glocalisation and transculturation with increasing authority by voices asserting their own cultural identity on the music. Non-American musicians want to connect with their own surroundings and want to give the music life and vitality that is relevant to their own socio-musical situation, so they are broadening the expressive base of the music in ways over which American jazz has no control. Key to these developments in Europe is that they are not a response to commercial logic. Sheltered by subsidy from the homogenizing effect of this marketplace, the music has been able to grow and develop in ways musicians want, rather than conforming to the expectations of the marketplace or shaped by the conventions of previous practice (Nicholson, 2005). On the other hand, Eric Hobsbawm in Uncommon People takes a different angle: Is jazz becoming terminally fossilized? It is not impossible. If this should be the fate of jazz, it will not be much consolation that Clint Eastwood has buried Bird in a celluloid mausoleum and that every hairdresser and cosmetics store plays tapes of Billie Holiday. However, jazz has shown extraordinary powers of survival and self renewal inside a society not designed for it and which it does not deserve. It is too early to think that its potential is exhausted. Besides, what is wrong with just listening and letting the future take care of itself (Hobsbawm, 1998). Many people wrestle with the word jazz; Peter Ind, jazz musician, environmentalist, painter and author says people “like the word but hate the music”. However, if jazz is that bad why do cosmetic companies, car dealers and car manufacturers fall over themselves to exploit the word jazz? A rhetorical question and best answered by the simple fact that there is a market out there with definable characteristics and with people who may only like one genre of jazz or a number of genres; or the “early adopter” who attends the innovative variety. Jazz is a broad church and when there is an altercation in the choir stall or the vestry, someone is busily adding an extension to the chancel. Hobsbawm is right to let the music take care of itself but we should use every tool available to market jazz from the classroom to old and new media. The answer to the question “how can you rebuild the audience aged 15-24 is inextricably bound up with access to hearing jazz. When you go to see a film you buy the ticket first ‘but music is different – and radio proves that whether it is a pop tune, a heavily political punk album or an experimental avant garde suite the key is very simple: people have to hear it – repeatedly if possible – and for free. After a while if you’re lucky people get to know and like the music. Sooner or later they are going to have to own it” (Dubber, 2007). Exposure has always been – for jazz – a defining component that affects the eventual buying decision. For example, thejazz, the UK's first 24 hours-a-day digital national radio station launched at Easter 2007, had 334,000 listeners in the RAJAR survey period ending in June 2007. By the period ending 16 September 2007 the listenership had increased to 388,000 or an increase of 16 per cent. In addition to the 338k 15+ listeners to thejazz, there were 53,000 children under the age of 15 listening in each week (Byrnes, 2007). thejazz came off the air in March 2008 due to a proposed takeover bid. To rebuild attendance at jazz events by the 16-24 year age group, the use of radio and new media is crucial and tactics need to be researched, developed and refined in a way that will enable promoters and musicians to gain access to the ears of young people and 16+ listeners.» Chris Hodgkins
https://www.emerald.com/insight/content/doi/10.1108/am-09-2013-0015/full/html |
FWIW, my wife and I used to drive 2.5 hours to Oakland to see top Jazz artists at Yoshi’s, one of the premier Jazz clubs in the country. I’m talking about people like Joe Lovano, McCoy Tyner, Mark Turner, Jack DeJohnette, John Abercrombie, Cedar Walton, Dave Holland Quintet, Geri Allen, Billy Harper, Bobby Hutcherson, Vincent Herring, Bobby Watson, etc. Top players. This was roughly from 2005 to 2010, if memory serves. We attended 12 -15 shows during that time and by far the largest segment of the audience was always older white guys. Eventually Yoshi’s shifted from all Jazz to mostly contemporary R&B with a few bluesy or Smooth Jazz players sprinkled to the mix. I’m pretty sure they did this because they wanted to attract bigger crowds. I haven’t been to a Blues show in a long time but when we did go, there was much greater variation in ages, compared to Jazz. I can’t say if this is still true. Another venue closer to home in Folsom (Harris Center) used to include Jazz acts but that did not last for long. In fact, that last Jazz performance was saw was there -- Kenny Werner Trio. Great show. |
It sound like to me you’re just guessing? And you have no clue? I wondering where you live and what live venues you go to see Jazz? Jazz (and blues) is the one music that is our own. It is played all over the US and the world. I don’t care what city you are in, whether it be suburbia or metropolitan areas, there are Jazz clubs all over the US. And when and artist gets a big following they may be fortunate to get a tour that takes them to small venues, to big venues and everything in between. Meaning when a band tours there is no rhyme or reason where they might or might not play, it’s where the band’s next gig is. |
Not to take sides here, but @tyray is right, definitely so in my experience. You say you don't see many young people at concerts. Is it possible young people don't frequent the same venues you frequent? |
That's good stuff and I intend to check out more of it, but....it doesn't really disprove what I said about the listening habits of young people in general. If I wanted to take the time, I'm quite sure I could find videos from dozens of jazz and blues clubs and concerts all over the country and you'll see very few young people in the crowd. My own experiences from attending a fair amount of concerts is consistent with that. Note that I didn't say that no young people are into those genres; many are, but nowhere near the majority or even a significant minority, imo. It might be a little different in urban areas (this show was in L.A.) where the arts as a whole tend to thrive more than in suburbia. Maybe it's different in other countries around the world but I can't speak to that. I know that audiences in general have received jazz and blues very enthusiastically in places like Europe and Japan, although I have no idea what the demographics are. I sincerely wish that I'm wrong and you're right about this, but I have to confess that I'm skeptical. |
About that thumping bass thing, I’ve been a bass head from the time I heard Larry Graham of Sly and The family Stone and the acoustic intonations of Ray Brown on an upright bass. I don’t think the above statements are necessarily true about kids, or should I say young women and young men theses days. For example this first link is from MonoNeon with Ghost-Note "Live at the Jamm Jam in Los Angeles" and if you notice, it’s packed with general admission standing room only young folks. Or what we would call back in the day a "jam Session". Kinda similar to what their grandparents did many years ago when going to a concert. In fact I think young people all over the world listen to jazz and blues. This is Ghost Note featuring MonoNeon in Germany, tearing up the stage. Ghost-Note - Featuring MonoNeon live at the Jazz Club Unterfahrt in germany And the idea that these same young folks don’t listen to blues is totally false as well. NAMM 2016: Eric Gales & Mono Neon Live At The Dunlop Booth As you see here in this post, young folks not only listen to jazz and blues, but more importantly they play live jazz and blues quite well, if I don’t say so myself. Here’s one for the road. Check out MonoNeon on acoustic bass. MonoNeon with Ghost-Note: "Phat Bacc" | Sugarshack Sessions |
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@ghasley: By your use of the term "thumper" (short for Bible thumper of course), your view of Contemporary Christianity is clear. T Bone's Southern California church is named The Vineyard, and in the 1970's and 80's it was a main church for musicians seeking to look into Christian spirituality. Lesley Phillips already had three albums out on the Myrrh Records (Phillips was the no. 2 best selling artist on the CC chart), the very well known CC label. T Bone produced her fourth---The Turning---a joint effort between Myrrh and Horizon Records, distributed by A & M. Myrrh Records is as Contemporary Christian as you can get. From Christianity.com: "Burnett produced The Turning, Phillips' final album before leaving Contemporary Christian music to become an independent artist." Does that make T Bone a Bible thumper? No, but his new album is certainly a discussion of the topic we are speaking of. Was Dylan's Slow Train Coming Bible thumping? Indeed it was! T Bone's involvement on The Rolling Thunder Review shortly preceded Dylan's "Christian period", and many believe it was T Bone who "led" Dylan to that exploration of Christianity. Burnett: "Probably about 15 people out of that Rolling Thunder Tour started going to church, or back to church." Doesn't seem like T Bone is adverse to being viewed as a Bible thumper. Others so inclined are Johnny Cash, Elvis Presley, Jerry Lee Lewis, and more recently Marty Stuart And His Fabulous Superlatives (on their Saturday Night/Sunday Morning album. Well, half of it at least
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