@immatthewj I forgot to mention bias in the V12 / V12R. The original manual calls for higher settings, and my local tech disagreed with this. We jumped on a call with the design tech after Dennis left cary, and he said they had now recommended lower bias settings per bank, not as high as 275ma any more. However, I see the manuals I found online were never updated. I found out after a few other V12/V12Rs had been in for repair so I paid close attention to this on mine.
Looked it up just now, with EL34s, still read this, checking tonight still reads "Follow the instructions provided. (250-275 mA is the recommended bias setting range, per side, with 220 mA being the minimum suggested bias level setting) Make certain to set the test meter used to mA range.". Well, Looks like the old manual was never updated to reflect lower values. I ran and tested 275, 240, 200ma per side over a few years. My tech was insistent 200ma per side was plenty (which is 33.3ma per Shuguang EL34 tube) Sure they can handle more but he felt it would help save the tubes and transformers to live longer. After this I never went over 220ma per bank. The last few years I had that amp I kept it at 200ma per bank and it sounded great fwiw.
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KT-88, I’ve found Gold Lion warmer vs Shuguang Nature and Treasure. Have a pair of KR Audio 300B, absolutely superb. Never heard their KT 88, I would imagine thar are also superb, however they are pricey.
EL-34, I’ve found St Petersburg Svetlana the best, followed by Tesla and RFT. Never owned the Mullard xf2. Gold Lion KT 77s are very nice, a more modern clear, clean transparent sound than EL34.
Driver/Signal tubes, my favorite are NOS Tung Sol black bottle round plates, mouse ears and WGTA, followed by Sylvania GTA, then Raytheon WGT.
Never heard an SLI 80, but I run the tubes above in a Dennis Had Inspire KT 88 and a Cary 300B SEI. Similar construction since all designed by Dennis.
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As dogearedaudio stated, Cary told me in an email to not use KT66’s in this amp.
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I really loved the Gold Lion KT77 in my EL34 amp of the current modern offerings of EL34 tubes I thought it had the best tone and frequency response and overall excellent sound.
@jond , I am pretty much clueless about this stuff, so the last time I needed a dozen EL34s I emailed Jim McShane and told him I was kind of interested in the GL KT77s. He actually suggested the reissued Tungsols El34s, as he said there might be issues with biasing the KT77s in my amp (Cary V12). I replied back that if he thought I’d be happier with the EL34s, by all means let's do that. He replied back with something to the effect of that wasn’t what he said; what he said was biasing might be problematic. I don’t know if ’might’ was the operative word, but I bought the reissued Tungsols. I have been really happy with those tubes and I was really happy with Jim’s service. (He emailed me two or three times to tell me how the burn-in and matching was going. If he wasn’t getting out of the business, I’d buy my next set from him.)
As an aside, I see that on the site that @decooney listed, Dougs Tubes, JJ has a KT77 available.
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I really loved the Gold Lion KT77 in my EL34 amp of the current modern offerings of EL34 tubes I thought it had the best tone and frequency response and overall excellent sound.
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I see that Cary lists a number of tubes you can use in the amp. KT66 is not one of them and I would not recommend trying them in an amp that boasts 40 wpc output in triode mode and 80 wpc in UL mode. You’re in danger of overheating the tubes and maybe damaging the amp. In my experience an EL34 will have more midrange emphasis and "warmth" than a KT88. I would suggest Svetlanas. Again, IME, they have the warmest midrange of any EL34s I’ve used. But I think that any quality EL34 will give you the extra warmth that you’re looking for. The Shuguangs mentioned get very good comments and might be an option.
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@immatthewj I recall Roger Modjeski telling me they are Shuguang made to mimic NOS Mullard sound quality. @clio09 may want to weigh in to confirm.
I don't recommend Mullard re-issues, as I found them to be bland and soft when used in a Music Reference RM9.
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@immatthewj My Cary V12 came with Rubys. At the time, I thought it was a great sound. I was under the impression that these were EL34s that were rebranded by Ruby? For some reason, and I may be wrong, at the time (’01) I was under the impression that the Ruby EL34s were Chinese?
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Shuguang EL34BSTR labeled as Ruby. I had them in my Cary V12R and liked them quite a bit. They sounded exceptionally good after I recapped the amp with Mundorf EVO Silver-Gold coupling caps. I liked them quite a bit actually. For sale here at Doug’s Tubes to get some ideas for comparison.
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@immatthewj yes to both questions.
@pdreher , although the write up on RAM's site didn't come right out and say so, I am thinking what I did get out of it indicated that RAM's EL34s are the reissued Mullards?
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@immatthewj yes to both questions. I've purchased tubes from RAM Labs multiple times dating back to 2017 when I acquired a Music Reference RM9 MKII amp. I recently purchased a back up quad of their EL34's as they are that good and a tremendous value @ $35/tube. Audiogoner @clio09 took over RAM Labs when Roger Modjeski of Music Reference passed.
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Thanks to OP's thread, I am getting some great ideas for EL34 replacement.
I prefer RAM Labs EL34's over RFT EL34's and Gold Lion KT88's. The RAM Labs are a steal @ $140 for a quad. Using NOS Amperex 7308's and TungSol 6SN7WGT's from Brent Jessie.
@pdreher , Are RAM tubes made by various manufacturers and tested and matched branded by RAM? Did you buy your RAM tubes from the RAM site?
Cary used Ruby tubes on my six-pacs but those exact tubes aren't made anymore
@russ69 , my Cary V12 came with Rubys. At the time, I thought it was a great sound. I was under the impression that these were EL34s that were rebranded by Ruby? For some reason, and I may be wrong, at the time ('01) I was under the impression that the Ruby EL34s were Chinese?
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Anyway, I did some quick googles, and now Tesla is a branch of JJ?
The old Tesla are not the same as the new JJs. Cary used Ruby tubes on my six-pacs but those exact tubes aren't made anymore. Not sure what to say, sometimes you just have to give a new tube a try.
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BTW, Cary said to keep bias < 50mA when using EL34's.
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I prefer RAM Labs EL34's over RFT EL34's and Gold Lion KT88's. The RAM Labs are a steal @ $140 for a quad. Using NOS Amperex 7308's and TungSol 6SN7WGT's from Brent Jessie.
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Thank you guys for the info and input. As it stands the current factory tube set is just fine. My thought is that since Cary made the rectifier section solid state, what I’m hoping for is a bit more warmth and sweetness in the mids and highs.
I usually buy my tubes from Viva tubes, they are rear to deal with, however if there are other vendors as already mentioned, I will definitely check them out.
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I was hoping you would catch that. Looks like Glennewdick has the inside line. I haven't used the KT77s yet but have used the KT-88s. I guess my favorite EL-34 is the Tesla. Quicksilver has some but don't know if they will sell them to non-Quicksilver customers.
@russ69 , I don't want to hijack the OP, but since I run a dozen EL34s in my Cary V12, I always paya attention to the EL34 threads. (Currently I am running my 3rd set, which are the reissued Tungsols that I bought from Jim McShane back sometime around 2020, and I like them, but when replacement time comes I am looking for something else).
Anyway, I did some quick googles, and now Tesla is a branch of JJ?
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I'm currently running some vintage Bugle Boy 6922's, vintage Sylvania JAN 6SN7's and a set of E.H. 6CA7s, (biased at 40mA). This is my favorite combo so far for my Vienna Acoustic speakers.
With the above combo and a set of Sovtec 6922's it can be a bit too edgy on the top end at higher volumes. The Bugle Boys take a bit of that edge off.
Before the 6CA7's, I ran a new set of JJ KT77's (biased at 40mA) which are similar, but not quite as much decay in cymbal strikes.
I have also run a set of Ruby 6550's but they were just too soft up top. I guess if I had a bright speaker, they might be better, but not for me.
Hopefully that helps.
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I didn't think that the (reissued) Gold Lion made a EL34? Or is the KT77 synonymous with EL34?
I was hoping you would catch that. Looks like Glennewdick has the inside line. I haven't used the KT77s yet but have used the KT-88s. I guess my favorite EL-34 is the Tesla. Quicksilver has some but don't know if they will sell them to non-Quicksilver customers.
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anything is better then the JJ's. JJ's are a reliable new production tube that are not bad just not great.
gold lion kt77's are a replacment in most amps for EL34's but they are not a EL34 sonding tube more modern and detailed sounding but less warmth (more similar to kt88's). they also take forever to break in.
NOS tube wil be your best bet but are also much more expemcive. lots to chose from and way too many to list here. google is your friend look for tube shootouts.
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Try rolling the 6SN7 pre-driver/phase inverter tubes first. They have are large impact in the overall sound.
I also second the Gold Lion KT-88 power tubes.
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Try some Gold Lyons all around. And I would switch to EL-34s if you want more tube goodness.
I didn't think that the (reissued) Gold Lion made a EL34? Or is the KT77 synonymous with EL34?
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Try some Gold Lyons all around. And I would switch to EL-34s if you want more tube goodness.
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