Like many/most here, one of the main reasons I frequent audiogon is to gather information. I am looking for ways to enhance the enjoyment I get from listening to music on my system. The information most valuable to me comes from those who share their actual experience with products that I am interested in, but have not heard in my system.
The audio community is a diverse one, with many opinions, ideas and perspectives. Many of them differ from mine, and that is fine. Those who disagree with me are free to make posts and start threads about whatever they choose. This doesn’t bother me, I am free to choose what I read, and what I don’t.
What does rile me up up is deliberate attempts to deny me (and others) access to the information that I value. There are some here who repeatedly seek to disrupt, sidetrack, derail, and shut down conversations about topics and products that trigger them. They do not contribute any useful information or experience to the discussion, and make disparaging comments about things they have zero experience with. They are bullies who mock, ridicule and provoke those who use, make and sell certain products. They seek to stifle any discussions about, and especially positive opinions of, the products and people they clearly have a vendetta against.
They can start their own threads, and talk about what a fool I am all day long, I don’t care. Their deliberate and repeated attempts to deny myself and others access to the information we value, however, are intolerable.
This is very funny! That does not prevent you one bit from posting non-stop for things you never heard.
I suppose that it does sound more farcical when I echo those words back.
Are you sure? Please define "factual post". Does sharing one’s experience of owning and using a product count? Also, nobody is here to convince you or anybody on anything. I for one couldn’t care less about convincing you.
You seem to care, as you go on non-stop on my cables.
An opinion is not a fact. It is maybe an alternate truth, or something… It is basically just a story.
I think it would be helpful if Audiogon identified members as vendors/retailers beside their name. It would make sense so those of us who are consumers know where there might be bias so retailers can use this platform to sell things.
BTW I am not anti-tweak. My system is highly "tweaked" to get it to sound the way it does. Lots of sweat over the years and a significant $$$ investment. Just don’t beat me over the head if I am not on the same page as another on any specific topic. I will share what I can if I think relevant and move on, but not beat people over the head about it.
@larry5729I think it would be helpful if Audiogon identified members as vendors/retailers beside their name.
This is unnecessary and anyway would be a tremendous burden on AG.
I just take it as a presumption that anyone and everyone who provides some testimonial (or who objects to any criticism) has some financial interest in promoting the tweak or tweaks in general..
Presumptions may be rebutted by context or by the person demonstrating some meaningful technical knowledge of the product other than what colour it is, that it is a game changer and the terms of sale.
“Exactly how does anyone on this site "deny access to information" to another poster?”
How does cancel culture work? By incessantly making provocative posts on threads that express opinions they disagree with, in order to stir up controversy and disrupt or get them shut down. By creating a toxic environment in which others are reluctant to share experiences and express opinions they disapprove of. They do this under the guise of merely expressing their own opinion.
No one can possibly tell you whether/how your system, room and/or ears will respond to some new addition. There are simply too many variables.
LIKEWISE: no one can possibly know whether a new addition (ie: some kind of disc, crystal, fuse, interconnect, cable, etc) will make a difference, in their system and room, with their media and to their ears, without actually TRYING them for themselves.
Some companies offer a 30 Day Satisfaction Guarantee, so- those that are actually interested, have absolutely nothing to lose, by trying (experimenting with) such.
Anyone that knows anything about the sciences, realizes that something like 96% of what makes up this universe, remains a mystery.
For centuries; humanity’s seen, heard, felt and otherwise witnessed phenomena, that none of the best minds could explain, UNTIL they developed a science or measurement, that could explain it.
The Naysayer Church wants you to trust their antiquated science (1800’s electrical theory) and faith-based, religious doctrine, BLINDLY ("Trust ME!").
Theories have never proven or disproven anything. It’s INVARIABLY testing and experimentation that proves or disproves theories/hypotheses.
IF you’re interested in the possibility of improving your system’s presentation, have a shred of confidence in your capacity for perceiving reality and trust your own senses: actually TRY whatever whets your aural appetite, FOR YOURSELF.
Whenever it comes to the thorny issue of money exchange there will always be those that will seek to deny access to information that they feel might not be in their best economic interests.
These last 2 years have amply demonstrated this time and time again.
Entire governments worldwide have gotten caught up in the spreading of misinformation and the denial of other certain other information that you would have thought it was their duty to provide.
As a home PC user since 2004 (Windows, unfortunately) I have noticed that whilst there is a seemingly endless amount of products you can buy to help you with your experience of using a PC ranging from antivirus, software and maintenance and repair utilities, there is an almost corresponding silence when it comes to the promotion of free open source software.
Some of which is simply brilliant.
It’s almost criminal that so much good and valuable hard work by so many gets so little credit.
Even some essential free Microsoft products such as checkdisk (CHDSK) system file checker (SFC) and deployment Image Servicing (DISM) and Management get very little publicity online compared to the paid for programs.
The Church of the Naysayer Doctrine (like every other faith-based, religious cult) has as many dopes as it does Popes.
Bring up anything resembling SCIENCE/PHYSICS, dated later than the 1800’s and they become apoplectic, not having the formal education to comprehend the concepts, or- possible ramifications. THAT would be hilarious, were it not so pathetic!
Gimme That Old Time Religion, Gimme That Old Time Religion, etc.
The problem I see here most OP questions are not answer properly, instead they will recommend other products.Then it get hijacked, During the time of Mike Lavigne , Albertporter, Jademo posting here it was fun , they are very knowledgeable, and they have state of the art system and yet they are so humble to share. The
Waltersalas is onother one who has a class act , very knowledgeable as well, very good system., Charlesdad is onother one who has class act and very knowledgeable.
One time Grannyring posted how much he modified the double impact, I did enjoy reading it. The post is too long or the thread, I never get tired reading it.
When informative threads get deleted then that denies me information. I come across this often where I search for something I am interested in. The search results on A'gon show varies threads. You click on some posts and then they are blocked because the thread has been deleted.
A'gon can do whatever they want but those deleted threads are a pet peeve of mine.
@thyname… Accusing others of making incendiary comments when you yourself openly admit that you practice exactly what you accuse others of … thereby contributing directly to the Admin taking threads down …
About users with hidden agendas
^^^^^ Meant to say don't read or especially reply to fuel their venom. Yup! Toxic! I do have a thing though for fueling their venom 😂🤗
'Oh what a tangled web you weave , When first you practice to deceive'
You guys knock me out. @rodman99999, @tommylionYou both need a little less mystery and a little more reality in your lives. So, Tommy you hand me a picture of a Grayhound bus and tell me you can't wait to fly down to Florida on it. I look at you crossways and comment, "I hate to tell you this but buses do not fly" You then try to convince me that I am FOS because I have never flown one. This is exactly how stupid both of you sound. When you have absolutely know idea what is going on you have the license to come up with any story you can imagine and call it truth?
I think it is pretty obvious our educational system is not working.
I’ve been hanging around this site, for 12 years now, as well as staying abreast of the debates, between the most esteemed theorists of various scientific fields of endeavor, for several decades.
Regardless of the scientific facts that have been established, through experimentation, improved measurement methods and testing, over those decades; some (Classical) Physicists still want the universe to make sense.
But (largely): it doesn’t.
SO (likewise): the same brand of convoluted, stale arguments and you’re absolutely correct:
This is one popular topic that never fails to get old as it’s always popping up and never, ever resolved.
With a little bit of digging there exists more than sufficient measurements and certifications (if necessary) available about cables and fuses from responsible and reputable manufacturers.
All in about one or two lines of information.
Problem is that they don’t cost anywhere near enough. That surely can’t be right, can it?
Yeah @noskewhen there are no specs I get hairs on my neck twitching.
Even a 25 cent fuse meets spec, but the SR ones, have not UL rating, and teh snake oil cables are also cloaked in a lack of specs.
I think it is pretty obvious our educational system is not working.
No one can possibly tell you whether/how your system, room and/or ears will respond to some new addition. There are simply too many variables.
LIKEWISE: no one can possibly know whether a new addition (ie: some kind of disc, crystal, fuse, interconnect, cable, etc) will make a difference, in their system and room, with their media and to their ears, without actually TRYING them for themselves.
Some companies offer a 30 Day Satisfaction Guarantee, so- those that are actually interested, have absolutely nothing to lose, by trying (experimenting with) such.
Anyone that knows anything about the sciences, realizes that something like 96% of what makes up this universe, remains a mystery.
For centuries; humanity’s seen, heard, felt and otherwise witnessed phenomena, that none of the best minds could explain, UNTIL they developed a science or measurement, that could explain it.
The Naysayer Church wants you to trust their antiquated science (1800’s electrical theory) and faith-based, religious doctrine, BLINDLY ("Trust ME!").
Theories have never proven or disproven anything. It’s INVARIABLY testing and experimentation that proves or disproves theories/hypotheses.
IF you’re interested in the possibility of improving your system’s presentation, have a shred of confidence in your capacity for perceiving reality and trust your own senses: actually TRY whatever whets your aural appetite, FOR YOURSELF.
The Naysayer Church HATES it, when THAT happens!
btw: tommylion= +1 (overall)
@rodman99999really?
Who is making it some kind of competition?
And back to the 1800s, I do not believe that we had amplifiers, nor phono amps. It is not like engineers that design these things since the mid 1900s were using incantations and Magic spells.
It is about the farthest thing from a church, on the naysayer side. It is more like a church on the “trust me” side.
I am not against the idea of some of the stuff working, but when the manufacturer cannot explain how they work, then it gets a bit hard to abide taking a chance on.
Similarly when the cables have no specs, it get difficult to want to try them.
If you want to donate to their cause, no one is stopping you. I’d rather spend on hardware.
Only if both following conditions are met for said product:
1) You have measurements as well as blind test results certified by a third party to back up your experience. Otherwise you are just hallucinating (placebo, gullibility, and such) or outright shilling
2) It’s very cheap. Preferably free. Otherwise, you are a phool to pay so much money for something other than something else that can measure just as good and is much cheaper.
Only then you can share any experiences. 😜😬
You know: nobody is interested in your experiences. I request and demand PROOF! 😫🙄😡😤🤬😠😖
My thread about the prototype discs was taken down. I tried to renew it or get an explanation but received nothing. Way too much control of speech. I will be looking for other sites to visit.
when I proposed that debate be use as a mode of expression rather than censorship, citing a previous instance where the thread had been taken down, guess who made negative noise?
clue: it wasn‘t the measurement crew - funny isn‘t it seeing the outcome ? - pity you can‘t go see for yourself..
When informative threads get deleted then that denies me information…….A'gon can do whatever they want but those deleted threads are a pet peeve of mine.
there was a totally uncontroversial and informative thread on a Supratek preamp that got taken down for no apparent reason, to the extent that it raises suspicions as to whether a competitor is able to have threads removed to gain commercial advantage.
When @ozzyposted that he was considering taking his own post down I amongst a couple of others posted the following to @ozzy in response to @thynameurging him to nuke his own thread …
“ I see no reason for you to take your thread down.
It is your thread in which you are writing about your subjective experiences with this product thereby opening up a debate upon said product.
However we live in a democratic society, as is this forum … ergo is it realistic to expect that every respondent will be favourably minded toward an unexplained product with properties unknown to science, and only expect enthusiastic comment from the membership as a whole?
Que the “ Why are you in this thread weenering posts “
Well … Its a Democracy , and those folks are entitled to post their opinion without being ganged up on by the usual * How Very Dare You* cabal ( yes you know who you are 😉)
I hope that you keep your thread up and running and post your own considerations regardless.”
Like everything in the world today you have wade knee deep through the crap to find a keeper every no and then. Trouble is the crap keeps getting deeper and deeper.
I feel like you need to get to square one and start doin some math. It will help you a LOT in terms of tolerance and various other factors.
My math tells the following before I made any science:
First of all, I don't feel like anyone does that to me as you mentioned about you. That means that you should evaluate what you've posted and what was reaction from other people sharing other experiences.
Second, you'll need to figure out whether you need to try to prove your point or just get around it. Proving point DOES require doing some extensive science and not from Stereophile or any advertising magazines, but from the scholar text books, if you know about those.
yeah, for calling for no censorship, stating I had successfully used devices that worked on the same principles as those you were reviewing and actually saying Amen after a statement.of subjectivist core beliefs - the truth hurts sometimes Ozzy
The What’s Best Forum is just great. I am signed up and active there now. As @mikelavignecorrectly stated we have other choices. My account will stay active here should I need to buy something. However, the enjoyable forum this once was is now gone with very few thread exceptions. See you there Ken.
i keep coming back to the ’Gon’ and look-see a couple of times a day. and post occasionally. plenty of quality posters. many times i see a topic that might offer some interest, but then look and it’s already blown apart. not always, but more times than not. i just don’t align with a high portion of posters here, i take the hobby more seriously. their hobby goals and thinking is vastly different than mine.
so it does not work for my place to hang. more pick my spots. which is ok.
love the hobby and forums don’t have to be anything but what they are, then we go where it’s satisfying to go.
The real test of whether things could or would change or not, is to do as the canuck audio forum has done.
Have a cable and tweak forum area with this as a warning at the top of that particular forum area:
Forum rules
The Cables forum is intended for those who believe cables make a difference in how their systems sound. If you do not believe in cables please do not post in any threads that are discussing specific cables or asking for help with cables, and limit your participation to threads where the OP intends to debate about cables. Posts which are argumentative, offensive, or break our rules may be deleted. Repeat offenders will be banned from posting in this forum.
~~~~~~~
FYI, those rules do indeed include the idea of trying to follow the letter of the stated rules but violating the spirit of the rules in any way that one can. Snide cloaked remarks, etc. Little janusian two faced remarks that can be interpreted all kinds of ways and so on. Those are also banning offenses. No effing around. period.
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the next thing they need to do, is to deal with repeat (banned) offenders, that use the same IP over and over and over, with new ID’s. To do as some forums do. Ban IPs. Not users. IPs.
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